me too!cool man! Congrats, I am interested to see how this comes back.
me too!cool man! Congrats, I am interested to see how this comes back.
yeah a retest would fcck the whole thing up but what can i do, i got as much blood as i could get out. maybe doing it right after getting up didnt help cuz circulation is poor. I tried my best, hand under warm water first, side of finger prick, squeezing my arm, milking my arm, new finger prick, moving arm around prior and still couldnt get much blood out.wouldn't having to re-test make the whole purpose of this void? I was thinking it was a timing thing from the time you were on cycle to off? Will you still see results that matter? Just wondering.
no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that partare 10 pumps comparable to about 100 iu HCG? If so then wouldnt HCG still be a much more cost effective route for those of us w/limited funds?
Not to mention the wide-ranging benefits of resveratrol.no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that part
Did you get any blood drops with the finger prick?the last test didnt go so well. i could not get enough blood no matter how much i tried. i even poked myself more with 23g needle but still. I was getting very frustrated. this is even with moving my arm around to get blood moving beforehand. I hope they got enough on the second test. still no results.
i got 2 good ones, 1 with each finger then the rest would not drop they were like half drops. Sorry Eric, i did the best i could with the test, i was going insane cuz i didnt know what else to do already.Did you get any blood drops with the finger prick?
-Eric
Did you get those 2 drops sent in?i got 2 good ones, 1 with each finger then the rest would not drop they were like half drops. Sorry Eric, i did the best i could with the test, i was going insane cuz i didnt know what else to do already.
Slow ZRT labsi sent them awhile ago, still waiting...
i know, tell me about it.Slow ZRT labs
Yes, a couple others from the board have tested it, and we are still waiting on results from a guys on other boards.Piston can you update the thread on what day you took the test, what compounds you were on..phera right?
I was expecting results sooner. PP,are there any more people trying this experiment? of so please post results and lab work.
in what period of your cycle were you when you made that test?3/1/2009 3/5/2009
LH 0.7 Low LH <0.2 Low
FSH 2.1 ok FSH 0.5 Low
Normal Range (adult male)
LH 1.0-8.4
FSH 1.0-10.5
so this did not work as an HCG alternative for you.3/1/2009 3/5/2009
LH 0.7 Low LH <0.2 Low
FSH 2.1 ok FSH 0.5 Low
Normal Range (adult male)
LH 1.0-8.4
FSH 1.0-10.5
I don't think its very bad, with that values you should at least maintain some test production so the balls were still workingi was in the the final two weeks, with the 20mg mdrol and 20mg epi
I don't think they are poor , if the leydig cells are highly sensitive to lh they produce test even on low lh levels, we need to see the testosterone results to jump to a conclusion, having the htpa working on a suppressive cycle like the one that piston made its already a good thingHmmm. Not so good. Curious as to what Eric might have to say about these poor results.
No. Sustain as an HCG alternative is intended to increase GrRH, and as a result increase LH and FSH. They both declined, indicating further suppression. Leydig sensitivity is not relevant for what is being tested.I don't think they are poor , if the leydig cells are highly sensitive to lh they produce test even on low lh levels, we need to see the testosterone results to jump to a conclusion, having the htpa working on a suppressive cycle like the one that piston made its already a good thing
Did you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?the last test didnt go so well. i could not get enough blood no matter how much i tried. i even poked myself more with 23g needle but still. I was getting very frustrated. this is even with moving my arm around to get blood moving beforehand. I hope they got enough on the second test. still no results.
This test does not seem to say so on paper.sustain alpha does not work as and hcg alternative then?
I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.Well sustain is doing something, for energy, mood, pump. I doubt that its placebo. Too bad you cant get a double blind done, or a before, during and after. Im sure guys have volunteered, you wouldnt need a control group.
I used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.I'm more than willing to believe the product works for natty guys or guys off cycle, even PCT. It just appears, at least from this one test, that using it as an HCG alternative is a bit too optimistic.
good to hearI used it during a couple cycles and Im positive it delayed and minimized the "feeling" of shut-down, it also increased muscle volume in a "ka-boom" kind of way.
lets see them.Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)
Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)
We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.
-Eric
Im holding them back from you smetonlets see them.
On a 4 or a 6, introduce it at day 10, eod til end, then ed for 4 or 6, throw in or pre-load with the Endo and T8 for good measure, a guy wouldnt have to worry about "having a serm on hand" provided he was sensible and modest with his dosing. Not to mention minimizing his yearly cycles. JMO It takes more than 1 bottle though. Personally Im tired of hearing about lab results that arent verifiable, I dont think a Physician or a hospital would accept those test results, Im sure this has been discussed elsewhere and on other boards, if it produces the results you want, it works, if it doesnt, then its useless and a guy shouldnt buy it or use it.If you're serious about this, some people need to get multi-channels, before and after, IMO anything less than that is a waste of time and money.so the conclusion seems to be from the test presented it worked for a natural testostrone booster or pct, if you do hormones and it may be worth doing the last week if your on a short four week cycle and into pct. Okay well thats better than nothing! Thanks for the reviews
bothDid you get the blood on the second test from the finger prick or the 23g needle?
-Eric
im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.Yeah, this is only one user who tested at the tail end of a cycle (not our recommended time to start the on-cycle protocol anyway)
Considering the way the second test went, the results may be invalid. Capillary blood will not give the same results as venous blood, so I’m still trying to find out how pistonpump extracted the blood for the second blood test. (he mentioned using a 23g needle)
We have results that are more promising that this test, so we will continue to test in users.
-Eric
Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, it’s the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and that’s why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.im sure its the same blood. i slightly pricked it with the needle tip so it would have the same effect its not like i went deep with the needle. Even if the second test drew less blood then the first it doesnt matter because its measured by concentration anyway right? meaning if there was half the amount of blood on the second test then the result of LH and FSH findings would just be doubled and compared to the first test...thats how im thinking it would work.
With Sustain as an HCG alternative isnt it recommended to take 5 pumps or something along that line? I was taking 10pumps so that could have been too much. Personally i thought the tests should be ran differently but this is the way Eric wanted to do it. I wanted to use the sustain a little longer and test farther apart instead of the 3 days we did here.
Anyway I still think sustain is a good product i would use it again on or off cycle.
i was just stating that the quantity wouldnt matter. I understand what you are saying about the venous and capillary blood but i was saying it is probably capillary blood because i pricked it the same way as the lancet would....Its not the amount of blood that makes a difference, it’s the type of blood. The venous and capillary blood holds different concentrations of hormones, and that’s why I wanted to verify that you got blood from the capillary vessel bed, rather than a vein.
Can you email me the test docs?
-Eric
sorry , you`re right about that, in this particular case lh should be higherNo. Sustain as an HCG alternative is intended to increase GrRH, and as a result increase LH and FSH. They both declined, indicating further suppression. Leydig sensitivity is not relevant for what is being tested.
sure but HCG is subQ - anyone can do SubQ, only a needle phobia would stop that. HCG type analogues are available on some of the Research Chem sites so it does not seem illegal.no needles, no illegality. slin pins costs you an extra $1 for every 2-3 injections just in needles, don't forget that part
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