Started Havoc 1/9/09
- Thread starter maurice02
- Start date
maurice02
Active member
Day 21
Morning weight 230.5.......weight recently flew up for some reason. Diet has been the same, if not less than what I was eating (skipped oatmeal yesterday).
Lethargy has been rearing its ugly head. Been hard to get out of bed in the morning and feeling pretty tired throughout the day.
Overall body feels sore....did back yesterday and put up great weight, but back pumps were insane. Had to stop a few times. Can't do deadlifts...hurt too bad.
Heart rate on the ARC machine has dropped a lot since start.....that is a big plus for me.
Morning weight 230.5.......weight recently flew up for some reason. Diet has been the same, if not less than what I was eating (skipped oatmeal yesterday).
Lethargy has been rearing its ugly head. Been hard to get out of bed in the morning and feeling pretty tired throughout the day.
Overall body feels sore....did back yesterday and put up great weight, but back pumps were insane. Had to stop a few times. Can't do deadlifts...hurt too bad.
Heart rate on the ARC machine has dropped a lot since start.....that is a big plus for me.
Chub
Well-known member
I felt qutie strange yesterday too. zombie like while i walked around the house :sigh:
maurice02
Active member
Day 23
Morning weight 230
Overall been tired. Back pumps are continual throughout the day. General feeling of soreness, moody, etc.... Back is painful along with abdominal area for some reason.
Been told I look like crap...haha
Also kinda feel that any gains I am making now are just more "fat" than anything. Kinda was considering stopping earlier than Day 28 but might as well continue it out.
Planning on starting Nolva and Lean Xtreme at end of this week. Then PCS 2 weeks after that.
anyways, I do have a question. I want to start the Dave Palumbo diet and am anticipating on losing 20 - 30 pounds by May. When would it be safe to start that. That diet is practically very very high protein and little to no carbs.
Thanks
Morning weight 230
Overall been tired. Back pumps are continual throughout the day. General feeling of soreness, moody, etc.... Back is painful along with abdominal area for some reason.
Been told I look like crap...haha
Also kinda feel that any gains I am making now are just more "fat" than anything. Kinda was considering stopping earlier than Day 28 but might as well continue it out.
Planning on starting Nolva and Lean Xtreme at end of this week. Then PCS 2 weeks after that.
anyways, I do have a question. I want to start the Dave Palumbo diet and am anticipating on losing 20 - 30 pounds by May. When would it be safe to start that. That diet is practically very very high protein and little to no carbs.
Thanks
jeffh3c
Member
Have you checked BF% ? I felt like some of my gains were fat as well, and some was. BF went up slightly but still made excellent gains on lifts.
faaipdeoiad
Member
i just stumbled on this thread, i seem to be having similar effects to what ur talking about. i started a havoc/furazadrol recomp cycle a week ago (logging it, gonna add in DCP next week) , but im noticing some things already.
i was wondering if u ever got the sleeping worked out? the first 6 days i pretty much did not sleep until like 3 or 4 am every night, it was pretty miserable. i thought it was just due to the timing of my last pill, and i stopped taking it aqbout 6 hours before i sleep, but i had a similar problem last night, just waking up frequently to piss. this is a major concern, as its gonna be a bit hard to make gains when im not sleeping well. (Aside from the obvious health concerns with it)Are u still having problems with this or did it subside naturally
i was wondering if u ever got the sleeping worked out? the first 6 days i pretty much did not sleep until like 3 or 4 am every night, it was pretty miserable. i thought it was just due to the timing of my last pill, and i stopped taking it aqbout 6 hours before i sleep, but i had a similar problem last night, just waking up frequently to piss. this is a major concern, as its gonna be a bit hard to make gains when im not sleeping well. (Aside from the obvious health concerns with it)Are u still having problems with this or did it subside naturally
cfunk32
New member
RE: Moody
:rasp:
This is a Great Log, thanks to everyone for your input.
I am on day 12 at about 30mg a day & feeling :rasp:.
Does anyone think that running a little Trib and/or long Jack might help this zombie like daze and moodyness?
:rasp:
This is a Great Log, thanks to everyone for your input.
I am on day 12 at about 30mg a day & feeling :rasp:.
Does anyone think that running a little Trib and/or long Jack might help this zombie like daze and moodyness?
maurice02
Active member
Day 25
Morning weight 232. I ate Sh!t for superbowl. Had pretty much a whole thin crust pie and a bunch of wings. I needed a cheat day...big one I mean lol. been sick of the same crap every day.
Overall just TIRED as anything. Feel weak but workouts are great. Had my PR of bench with dumbells on flat bench today.....110x8.
but overall just feeling like total crap. Just want to sleep.
As for BF%, no I didn't which I should have. It is strange because I definitely leaned out in the shoulders, chest, arms, but fat is seeming accumulating in my gut again. That has always been my biggest trouble spot.
As for sleeping, it has cleared up about a 1 1/2 weeks in......sleeping like a baby. But having some seriously wacky dreams.....passed three nights I got into car accidents in my sleep...hmmmm....and the last one I hit a car with three asian people in it and they went flying across the road and then sped off......these things are vivid!
As for my PCT, I do remember when I did hdrol that keeping my intake the same led to some more fat despite the lean xtreme. I think I am going to cut down on carbs considerably and take 3 - 5 protein shakes a day (double scoop to get close to 50g of protein). I am very carb sensitive. Probably will keep the oatmeal and just cut out the afternoon PBJ along with 1/2 the carbs at lunch.
Figuring I am ending between 230 and 235 on this. I need to lose 25 - 30 pounds by summer....I know I can do it if I do atkins but that makes me weak. I did it two years ago and lost 18 pounds in a month. Upped the cardio, no carbs.....slimmed down quick.
I know you are not supposed to cut during PCT, but would combining something like leviathan or DCP with lean xtreme be ok or should I wait 2 - 4 weeks.
Again, PCT is
Nolva (40 for the first two days then 20 for the remainder of the week) and then 20/10/10
lean xtreme on day 1 of PCT
Post cycle support starting Day 15 of PCT.
Morning weight 232. I ate Sh!t for superbowl. Had pretty much a whole thin crust pie and a bunch of wings. I needed a cheat day...big one I mean lol. been sick of the same crap every day.
Overall just TIRED as anything. Feel weak but workouts are great. Had my PR of bench with dumbells on flat bench today.....110x8.
but overall just feeling like total crap. Just want to sleep.
As for BF%, no I didn't which I should have. It is strange because I definitely leaned out in the shoulders, chest, arms, but fat is seeming accumulating in my gut again. That has always been my biggest trouble spot.
As for sleeping, it has cleared up about a 1 1/2 weeks in......sleeping like a baby. But having some seriously wacky dreams.....passed three nights I got into car accidents in my sleep...hmmmm....and the last one I hit a car with three asian people in it and they went flying across the road and then sped off......these things are vivid!
As for my PCT, I do remember when I did hdrol that keeping my intake the same led to some more fat despite the lean xtreme. I think I am going to cut down on carbs considerably and take 3 - 5 protein shakes a day (double scoop to get close to 50g of protein). I am very carb sensitive. Probably will keep the oatmeal and just cut out the afternoon PBJ along with 1/2 the carbs at lunch.
Figuring I am ending between 230 and 235 on this. I need to lose 25 - 30 pounds by summer....I know I can do it if I do atkins but that makes me weak. I did it two years ago and lost 18 pounds in a month. Upped the cardio, no carbs.....slimmed down quick.
I know you are not supposed to cut during PCT, but would combining something like leviathan or DCP with lean xtreme be ok or should I wait 2 - 4 weeks.
Again, PCT is
Nolva (40 for the first two days then 20 for the remainder of the week) and then 20/10/10
lean xtreme on day 1 of PCT
Post cycle support starting Day 15 of PCT.
maurice02
Active member
you think you are gonna bump to 40? I am happy I did early in the cycle. Definitely my sweet spot. I don't think I would try 50 like I was thinking. Just gonna run it out to 30 days and call it a good cycle. Then focus on PCT and losing some excess fat.
Chub
Well-known member
boo99
Member
yeah last 7 days will be at 40
40mg was the sweet spot for me and others have reported the same
i did 50mg for 15 days--- no diff. really
maurice02
Active member
Day 27
Morning weight 230.5
Starting to slowly cut back the carbs. During PCT I will be having 3 - 4 double scooped (46g protein) shakes throughout the day. Still will be enjoying my oatmeal in the AM but cutting out the PBJ and mid day carbs. Gonna up the chicken consumption during the day and night and more green veges.
hoping to balance out the loss of carbs with intake in protein, thus leading to a decent attempt at some fat loss through PCT without losing muscle.
Morning weight 230.5
Starting to slowly cut back the carbs. During PCT I will be having 3 - 4 double scooped (46g protein) shakes throughout the day. Still will be enjoying my oatmeal in the AM but cutting out the PBJ and mid day carbs. Gonna up the chicken consumption during the day and night and more green veges.
hoping to balance out the loss of carbs with intake in protein, thus leading to a decent attempt at some fat loss through PCT without losing muscle.
maurice02
Active member
BTW....updating my PCT as follows
Weeks 1 - 4 = Nolva/Post Cycle support/Lean Xtreme/DCP
From what I was told this should serve as a pretty good PCT. Starting the PCS on Day 1 with Nolva as advised, and the combo of DCP/Lean Xtreme should lead to some fat loss while keeping up endurance as well as muscle mass.
Weeks 1 - 4 = Nolva/Post Cycle support/Lean Xtreme/DCP
From what I was told this should serve as a pretty good PCT. Starting the PCS on Day 1 with Nolva as advised, and the combo of DCP/Lean Xtreme should lead to some fat loss while keeping up endurance as well as muscle mass.
maurice02
Active member
Evening of Day 27
Did back....good workout but generally just tired now. Back pumps were bad bad bad.....dosed quite a bit of taurine...oh wells, expected.
Anyways, if anyone has any comments on my PCT please let me know.
Secondly, I need to cut.....I have no clue what my BF% is but it is not good LoL. I am gonna post up some pics now.
I am super carb sensitive...always have been. I am hoping that if I boost up the cardio to burn 300 - 350 5x a week and cut down the carbs I should do ok during PCT. Gonna keep protein way up there.
Any suggestions will be appreciated. I am hoping the combo of DCP and lean Xtreme do me well. DCP has shipped from Nutra......if it is here tomorrow I will start PCT Friday. IF not, I will wait till it comes and start the day after.
Did back....good workout but generally just tired now. Back pumps were bad bad bad.....dosed quite a bit of taurine...oh wells, expected.
Anyways, if anyone has any comments on my PCT please let me know.
Secondly, I need to cut.....I have no clue what my BF% is but it is not good LoL. I am gonna post up some pics now.
I am super carb sensitive...always have been. I am hoping that if I boost up the cardio to burn 300 - 350 5x a week and cut down the carbs I should do ok during PCT. Gonna keep protein way up there.
Any suggestions will be appreciated. I am hoping the combo of DCP and lean Xtreme do me well. DCP has shipped from Nutra......if it is here tomorrow I will start PCT Friday. IF not, I will wait till it comes and start the day after.
maurice02
Active member
I feel that I have a good frame under there......feel free to comment on BF or whatever. I don't take anything personal lol...
over the passed years of lifting I was in great shape at 22.....and about 190 at the time. Now I figure I will end about 231. Optimally I am thinking I will look a lot better at 200 - 210.....thoughts? I have till the end of May to burn off the excess. Enough bulking on my end.
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over the passed years of lifting I was in great shape at 22.....and about 190 at the time. Now I figure I will end about 231. Optimally I am thinking I will look a lot better at 200 - 210.....thoughts? I have till the end of May to burn off the excess. Enough bulking on my end.
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maurice02
Active member
i wish i was 230lbs
lol no you don't...pure muscle maybe, but not with the excess life raft around my waste!
I wish I was 210 now. So we can meet in the middle? You get to 210 and I lose 20lbs fat down to 210!
maurice02
Active member
Day 28
Morning weight 231
Sleep has been crap the passed three nights. Tossing, turning, and been having a bit of a pain in my lower back (kidney area on the left side).
also noting that 2 gallons of water is not doing it for me....kinda pissing orange in the morning.
Today is last day I think regardless if DCP is here or not. Starting to notice sides creeping up steadily and just don't want to get sick.
Also been getting headaches and feeling a bit "loopy" for some reason.
Eh......oh wells.
Yesterday I cut a bunch of carbs out, today will be the same. Getting ready to drop the big 20!
Morning weight 231
Sleep has been crap the passed three nights. Tossing, turning, and been having a bit of a pain in my lower back (kidney area on the left side).
also noting that 2 gallons of water is not doing it for me....kinda pissing orange in the morning.
Today is last day I think regardless if DCP is here or not. Starting to notice sides creeping up steadily and just don't want to get sick.
Also been getting headaches and feeling a bit "loopy" for some reason.
Eh......oh wells.
Yesterday I cut a bunch of carbs out, today will be the same. Getting ready to drop the big 20!
maurice02
Active member
lol hoping that the easter bunny will be happy that the eggs are back in time!!!!!!!!!! lol
Feeling like CRAP tonight. Maybe coming down with something but lower back is really hurting and sides of my abdomen are pretty sore too. Been chugging water and my piss is still rather cloudy/dark.
Eh, tomorrow is PCT so a day or two and hopefully things start clearing back up. Didn't go to gym tonight......just not feeling it.
Was happy that my DCP was here when I got home. Hadn't ordered it in sometime but they look like big ol vitamin pills now compared to the capsules I got previously!
Feeling like CRAP tonight. Maybe coming down with something but lower back is really hurting and sides of my abdomen are pretty sore too. Been chugging water and my piss is still rather cloudy/dark.
Eh, tomorrow is PCT so a day or two and hopefully things start clearing back up. Didn't go to gym tonight......just not feeling it.
Was happy that my DCP was here when I got home. Hadn't ordered it in sometime but they look like big ol vitamin pills now compared to the capsules I got previously!
maurice02
Active member
Two days into PCT.
Back pain is VERY bad for some reason. Mostly focused on my left side where my kidney is and hurts to put pressure there so assuming it might be a tad swollen. Hoping it subsides over the next day or two. It almost feels like a dull "gas" pain back there.......
Nolva still tastes eh even though it is minty lol.
Also I cut back my protein a bit.....urine has been rather frothy and dark (not tea colored) which leads me to believe my kidneys are overworking so I don't want to stress them too much.
Sleep has been horrible. Back pain keeps waking me up, along with having to piss every half hour or so. Been worried if I take melatonin and pass out I will piss in the bed! Don't want that happening.
Besides that nothing else to report. Cutting back gym to every other day. Did shoulders yesterday so taking off today and just gonna go out and relax.
Back pain is VERY bad for some reason. Mostly focused on my left side where my kidney is and hurts to put pressure there so assuming it might be a tad swollen. Hoping it subsides over the next day or two. It almost feels like a dull "gas" pain back there.......
Nolva still tastes eh even though it is minty lol.
Also I cut back my protein a bit.....urine has been rather frothy and dark (not tea colored) which leads me to believe my kidneys are overworking so I don't want to stress them too much.
Sleep has been horrible. Back pain keeps waking me up, along with having to piss every half hour or so. Been worried if I take melatonin and pass out I will piss in the bed! Don't want that happening.
Besides that nothing else to report. Cutting back gym to every other day. Did shoulders yesterday so taking off today and just gonna go out and relax.
jeffh3c
Member
I have never experienced it, but "frothy" is a sign that your kidneys are overworked. Somehow extra protein in your urine causes this. I would maybe cut back A BIT on protein for a few days and give your body some more stuff that is easier to process. I would also drink water even if you hae to go every 1/2 hour (at least up to 2 hours before bed).
Another possibility os that your adrenals sit on top of your kidneys (or near them) so maybe your body is just so stressed right nopw that your kidneys are only part of the issue. Maybe a few days off and some rest would help your bbody regain a sense of normalcy - avoid the stims I would say. (for now, I love the stims especially coffee)
Chub
Well-known member
maurice02
Active member
lol.....mmmmm....mint tic tacs!
Took it easy this weekend. no gym, ate whatever i wanted (BK, checkers, and chinese....lol).
Pain has lightened up enough to sleep but still is pretty friggin bad. Considering going to the docs end of the week if no better. Still hurts to put direct pressure on my left kidney but not as bad as before when it was mad tender to touch.
Also, the pain is radiating out on the right side, towards the front, etc...
Like I said before, almost feels like a gas pain but I don't think they last for a couple days.
I am also thinking it could be a muslce pain maybe. Certain movements really trigger it but it is a constant and dull achy pain.
Morning weight was steady at 229.5. Today cut back the carbs considerably. Bringing in a lot more greens.
Just waiting for this bloody pain to subside!
Took it easy this weekend. no gym, ate whatever i wanted (BK, checkers, and chinese....lol).
Pain has lightened up enough to sleep but still is pretty friggin bad. Considering going to the docs end of the week if no better. Still hurts to put direct pressure on my left kidney but not as bad as before when it was mad tender to touch.
Also, the pain is radiating out on the right side, towards the front, etc...
Like I said before, almost feels like a gas pain but I don't think they last for a couple days.
I am also thinking it could be a muslce pain maybe. Certain movements really trigger it but it is a constant and dull achy pain.
Morning weight was steady at 229.5. Today cut back the carbs considerably. Bringing in a lot more greens.
Just waiting for this bloody pain to subside!
maurice02
Active member
just wondering what you guys think, but I have some muscle relaxants floating around at home somewhere........you think it is worth popping one tonight to see how i feel?
Pain kinda moved to my right side, lower abdomen now, but still does hurt in the back.....just radiated out more. Seriously feels like bad bad gas lol lol....but I never had gas for 5 days (which is how long this has hurted)
Pain kinda moved to my right side, lower abdomen now, but still does hurt in the back.....just radiated out more. Seriously feels like bad bad gas lol lol....but I never had gas for 5 days (which is how long this has hurted)
Chub
Well-known member
DCP will treat you well i'd say!
hmm i dunno, if its back pumps upping you taurine and water may help, buti guess you've already done that. so i dunno :/
maurice02
Active member
DCP will treat you well i'd say!
Yeah Dsade said lean and DCP should make a great weight cutting combo for PCT.
hmm i dunno, if its back pumps upping you taurine and water may help, buti guess you've already done that. so i dunno :/
yeah i am giving it till tomorrow and calling the doctor. Pain definitely is moving and my piss is still pretty dark (regardless of all the water I am taking in)....which is making me hope it is not stones or something.
Overall feeling good 4 days into PCT. Bit of headaches recently but that is it. Going to do chest tonight. hoping a bit of movement will move whatever the hell it is around. Plus a bit of cardio should help me out as well.
sickboy530
New member
Nice log Maurice. I was thinking about doing a cycle of Havoc and your log was very helpful. As i went through your log and read about your tea colored urine kidney stones and blood in your urine were the first thing that came to mind. Now hearing you describe the pain you are having it really sounds like you might have kidney stones. I have had them a few times and it is exactly what you are describing.
maurice02
Active member
Thanks.....i was reading up and it is seeming to follow the path of a stone. I gave up and made an appt for tomorrow late afternoon. Sitting at a desk all day in one position is not helping and I am in a bit more pain than expected right now.
I am going to attempt to do some chest tonight. Not that I want to, but just to keep my mind off of things, moving around, you know the deal. Plus I drink usually a gallon alone at the gym........
Chub
Well-known member
sickboy530
New member
I got your pm but am unable to send any because I dont have enough posts.
Chub
Well-known member
considering he's gained nicely..you didn't see any pre cycle pics either so you can't really say that.
maurice02
Active member
Opinions vary.
I have one earlier shot earlier in the thread, and I believe I have even specified earlier that I am not at a "low" body fat nor am "cut up" like some of the guys on here. I have purely bulked for a bit now and this cycle was to attempt to make lean gains.
After this cycle I am intending on losing 20 pounds of fat (which should be easily obtainable over 2 - 3 months) along with minor muscle loss. I will be the first to say that I need to lose some weight, but as I said above, opinions vary, and mine is that there is no reason for me to have cut down right now before bulking when I can comfortably put on more mass and then solely dedicate to just losing fat.
And I went from 218 to 232ish and steadily hovering now at 229 - 230. Not my optimum weight OBVIOUSLY. But to put on about 12 pounds and I would consider 8 pounds of lbm, I don't think that is bad.
And to boot, I think your vision of "steroids" is merely obscured. If you are 160 and lean, sure running a cycle will be more pronounced...but so much more natural gains you can make at that weight.
Anyways...thanks for the support. :fest30:
Graglor
Member
WTF? Stick to the "What car do you drive?" thread you started.
Graglor
Member
RichardF12
New member
Hey maurice nice log you have here, im sorry to hear about the problems you are having in your pct
How did the doctor visit go bro?
Rich
How did the doctor visit go bro?
Rich
Knowbull
Well-known member
Hey maurice nice log you have here, im sorry to hear about the problems you are having in your pct
How did the doctor visit go bro?
Rich
Bump for update, people are concerned
maurice02
Active member
hey guys.
Just got home. Doctor didn't schedule a dye test but says that he thinks it is more than likely kidney stones.
Got some muscle relaxants for pain and cypro for infection etc...
he said give it about 5 days to pass......he thinks it is probably in the bladder now. They did the typical dipstick....moderate WBC count and high blood. Doc said nothing to worry about but he said drink a lot of water. Said it could be from dehydration or too much protein.
So pretty much no worries but I am not looking forward to passing the little bugger.
On a side note, he was very happy with my BP (120/80) and HR which were perfect on the button. Everything else looked good.
I brought Havoc and PH's up to the doctor and he said it could have attributed to it (unwanted stress on any organ), but he feels unless I was not taking in enough water, it was just too much protein/calcium/whatever....so I would not point any fingers at havoc for this. Just luck of the draw on my end.
Gonna keep the protein a bit lower for the next few days unfortunately and up the fat intake (cheese and what not).
Weight in at 234 on the docs scale. Mine at home says 230...so I guess that is just the 4 pounds of clothes, shoes, keys, wallet, lol all that.
Was planning on dumping carbs mostly in PCT but advised not to in another thread unless I up fats.......so it is looking like more of an atkins type diet that I will be on, but gonna keep it low key for the rest of the week till the bugger passes.
Once I get done with PCT and into a cut, I will start another thread.....gonna shoot for a total fat loss of 20 - 25lbs before the summer and more than likely will run Havoc again after the summer.
Overall, a great experience in my eyes, but will do a full report after PCT.
Just got home. Doctor didn't schedule a dye test but says that he thinks it is more than likely kidney stones.
Got some muscle relaxants for pain and cypro for infection etc...
he said give it about 5 days to pass......he thinks it is probably in the bladder now. They did the typical dipstick....moderate WBC count and high blood. Doc said nothing to worry about but he said drink a lot of water. Said it could be from dehydration or too much protein.
So pretty much no worries but I am not looking forward to passing the little bugger.
On a side note, he was very happy with my BP (120/80) and HR which were perfect on the button. Everything else looked good.
I brought Havoc and PH's up to the doctor and he said it could have attributed to it (unwanted stress on any organ), but he feels unless I was not taking in enough water, it was just too much protein/calcium/whatever....so I would not point any fingers at havoc for this. Just luck of the draw on my end.
Gonna keep the protein a bit lower for the next few days unfortunately and up the fat intake (cheese and what not).
Weight in at 234 on the docs scale. Mine at home says 230...so I guess that is just the 4 pounds of clothes, shoes, keys, wallet, lol all that.
Was planning on dumping carbs mostly in PCT but advised not to in another thread unless I up fats.......so it is looking like more of an atkins type diet that I will be on, but gonna keep it low key for the rest of the week till the bugger passes.
Once I get done with PCT and into a cut, I will start another thread.....gonna shoot for a total fat loss of 20 - 25lbs before the summer and more than likely will run Havoc again after the summer.
Overall, a great experience in my eyes, but will do a full report after PCT.
Graglor
Member
Well that's good new then!!! I mean, aside from having to pass a jagged piece of shape calcium through your **** anyway. I know there was a few of us worried about your liver and all, so by good news, I mean that lol. Glad the cycle worked out for ya, you have no regrets and made some nice gains. Keep us posted on your future log.