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Havoc / 3-AD Dosing???

BigFish80

BigFish80

Member
I'm starting to put together a early spring stack that will add quite a bit of size but still keep me some what lean. I've run Havoc up to 50mg/wk in previous cycles with great results (207lbs to 222lbs in 4 weeks - maintained 10lbs), but never used 3-AD. Don't want to up the Havoc dose any futher, so I figured might as well stack it with something mild as far as sides go. I've heard these should work pretty well together, but haven't really seen to many logs with this stack. I'm looking for suggestions on dosing and how to run these together for a 4-6 week cycle. Once again just kicking around ideas. Probably run tore or nolva for PCT as I have both of these left over from previous stacks. Also probably will run from PCT into an early summer cut. Open to other ideas as well. Plenty of time to think and plan. Thanks for the input.
 
We're here, and I've been watching, but I honestly have NO experience with Havoc, so I can't advise on it one way or another. I do with 3-AD, but throwing a methyl like that into the mix really does change the game up a lot. IMO, it might be best to pose this same question in the steroids forum as well as the RPN section.

The one thing that I might suggest is to drop the idea of Havoc for the time being and run 3-AD at 6/day for 30 days. That dosing may really surprise you when compared to your previous experience with Havoc. Gains should be similar or better, and the side effects would be extremely minimal. PCT? VERY easy. AX's own aPCT is ALL you need. No SERMs, no nuthin else. No supports, either.

I'm always a fan of running a new product solo first so that you know what it does for you. If you do go with the Havoc/3-AD stack, and you don't like or you do like something, then it may be a bit more difficult to know exactly which product was doing what you liked / didn't like. Know what I'm sayin?

At any rate, here's a bump for someone with better knowledge of Havoc. Thanks for the question - sorry for not getting to you sooner. :cheers:
 
personally ive run epi, not havoc but to my knowledge they are the saame or similar. I would run the havoc 20/30/40/40 and the 3ad at 6/caps a day for the length of the cycle if i were to do this stack
 
I heard that 3AD would be better for a cut and not a bulk, is this true? Will it deliver big gains on a bulk?
 
Rhys26 said:
I heard that 3AD would be better for a cut and not a bulk, is this true? Will it deliver big gains on a bulk?
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I'd say that it's definitely better for a bulk, though it can be used on a cut or recomp. What did you hear that makes you think it might be better as a cutter?
 
T-AD said:
I'd say that it's definitely better for a bulk, though it can be used on a cut or recomp. What did you hear that makes you think it might be better as a cutter?
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One of my mates who I was talking to said it was quite a dry compound so better for a cut rather then a bulk.
 
Rhys26 said:
One of my mates who I was talking to said it was quite a dry compound so better for a cut rather then a bulk.
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The propionyl L-carnitine found in 3-AD will shuttle fatty acids directly into the mitochondria of your cells to be burned as fuel. It can create a hot/sweaty kind of feel for those who aren't use to it. But because of this, 3-AD could be really good for a cut. This ingredient though is great for those who are bulking as it can help to keep them quite lean throughout the cycle. Depends on the diet though.

So either bulking or cutting, 3-AD can be very versatile and flexible with your goals :thumbsup:
 
Biceps said:
The propionyl L-carnitine found in 3-AD will shuttle fatty acids directly into the mitochondria of your cells to be burned as fuel. It can create a hot/sweaty kind of feel for those who aren't use to it. But because of this, 3-AD could be really good for a cut. This ingredient though is great for those who are bulking as it can help to keep them quite lean throughout the cycle. Depends on the diet though.

So either bulking or cutting, 3-AD can be very versatile and flexible with your goals :thumbsup:
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Thanks mate, good to know
 
I ran 3-AD when it first came out, and i was impressed with it. If you were responding to havoc in the 40-50mg/day range, you definitely don't need to go any higher at any point on this cycle.

IMO, these 2 should stack VERY well together. I'd start the havoc in the 30-40mg/day range and go from there. Check out my havoc write-up for more info if need be as well.

AX did a very good job with their 3-AD product, and this should be a killer stack! :D
 
D'oh!! I completely forgot you were with RPN, T1!! I would have thrown this one right to ya!!

Thanks for jumpin in, bro. :cheers:
 
T-AD said:
D'oh!! I completely forgot you were with RPN, T1!! I would have thrown this one right to ya!!

Thanks for jumpin in, bro. :cheers:
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No problem, buddy. I'm always lurking in the AX section, haha. :D
 
Trauma1 said:
No problem, buddy. I'm always lurking in the AX section, haha. :D
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QUIT STALKING ME!!!!!

:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

You know it turns me on.

:icon_lol:
 
Thanks for the advice. T-AD, I appreciate the info. If T1 is saying the stack is solid then I trust it. T1, I keep up with alot of your threads and I know this stack is something that you've talked about. Have you ever run it? How would you dose the havoc and 3-ad together? Would you run it like Sublime suggested? Just curious.
 
BigFish80 said:
Thanks for the advice. T-AD, I appreciate the info. If T1 is saying the stack is solid then I trust it. T1, I keep up with alot of your threads and I know this stack is something that you've talked about. Have you ever run it? How would you dose the havoc and 3-ad together? Would you run it like Sublime suggested? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind words and support, buddy!

I have never run them together yet. In fact, before the cycle i'm running now, this was what i was going to run for sure. I just had some AX phera i needed to use up.

I truly do believe out of most of the current stuff out there, this stack should be top tier. It should add some really quality mass and strength gains.

Sublime's suggestion is very good indeed. I'd have to run it myself and adjust as needed to give you some anecdotal insight at dosing, but i can postulate what i believe to be effective.

You're right around my size, so i think Havoc at 30/40/40-50/40-50 with 3-AD at 6-8 caps/day would be kick azz. If you do decide to log this, hit me up with the link for sure. I'll probably hit this stack up myself around the time of the arnold next year.

Good luck, and if you have any Havoc questions you know where to find me. In all seriousness, 3-AD is a great product, and will be a great stacker here. :D
 
T1, Thanks bud. I've been following along on you and poopypant's log.

T-AD, it looks like T1 just sealed it. T1 is an undercover AX rep!!! jk

Havoc/3-AD it is!

I'll be starting this in March, which I believe is around the same time as the Arnold. This should get me huge in March, holding the size (PCT) in April, and getting shredded in May. Just in time for summer! I may log this but it just depends, never logged anything before. At least I'll put up before and afters with a summary. Anyway thanks for all the info everyone.

Fish
 
BigFish80 said:
T1, Thanks bud. I've been following along on you and poopypant's log.

T-AD, it looks like T1 just sealed it. T1 is an undercover AX rep!!! jk

Havoc/3-AD it is!

I'll be starting this in March, which I believe is around the same time as the Arnold. This should get me huge in March, holding the size (PCT) in April, and getting shredded in May. Just in time for summer! I may log this but it just depends, never logged anything before. At least I'll put up before and afters with a summary. Anyway thanks for all the info everyone.

Fish
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Good luck with this, buddy. If you have any questions about havoc along the way, you know where to find me. :)
 
BigFish80 said:
T1, Thanks bud. I've been following along on you and poopypant's log.

T-AD, it looks like T1 just sealed it. T1 is an undercover AX rep!!! jk

Havoc/3-AD it is!

I'll be starting this in March, which I believe is around the same time as the Arnold. This should get me huge in March, holding the size (PCT) in April, and getting shredded in May. Just in time for summer! I may log this but it just depends, never logged anything before. At least I'll put up before and afters with a summary. Anyway thanks for all the info everyone.

Fish
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awesome man i hope you like it, and definitely let us know how it goes for you!
 
just got done with the cycle

3AD

4 a day for 1st and last week
6 a day for 2,3,4, weeks

Started Epi on 2nd week for 4 weeks

20mg/day 1st week
30mg/day 2nd
40mg/day for last 2

I was told to get the cissus, but I didn't and my joints were so achy...

also got some unwelcome acne, overall i felt like I was a brittle 80 year old man.

About 2 weeks after the end of the Epi cycle I started to feel normal again.
 
glockgod said:
just got done with the cycle

3AD

4 a day for 1st and last week
6 a day for 2,3,4, weeks

Started Epi on 2nd week for 4 weeks

20mg/day 1st week
30mg/day 2nd
40mg/day for last 2

I was told to get the cissus, but I didn't and my joints were so achy...

also got some unwelcome acne, overall i felt like I was a brittle 80 year old man.

About 2 weeks after the end of the Epi cycle I started to feel normal again.
Click to expand...


What was your over all experience with running these 2 compounds together? Was it better or worse than previous stacks you've run. Give us the details..... (strength, size, sides, etc)
 
I'll probably be running the same stack around April, I was having trouble deciding between Havoc/3-AD or Havoc/1-T - but I think I'll be doing the first.

Trauma1, what do you think I could expect from this cycle? I'm asking here because I'm already here and not in my other thread, and I'm kinda lazy sometimes haha. Seriously though, I'm only asking this because my last run on havoc I put on 20Lb's, and I held 15 of them until I did a little cut 3-4 months after. I can't see realistically asking for more than 20Lb's in 5 weeks, right?

And, how long does it take to see effects from 3-AD? I will be running the Havoc for 5 weeks, and only stacking the 3-AD for the last 2, or would I need to stack all 5 weeks?
 
Orangepeel said:
I'll probably be running the same stack around April, I was having trouble deciding between Havoc/3-AD or Havoc/1-T - but I think I'll be doing the first.

Trauma1, what do you think I could expect from this cycle? I'm asking here because I'm already here and not in my other thread, and I'm kinda lazy sometimes haha. Seriously though, I'm only asking this because my last run on havoc I put on 20Lb's, and I held 15 of them until I did a little cut 3-4 months after. I can't see realistically asking for more than 20Lb's in 5 weeks, right?

And, how long does it take to see effects from 3-AD? I will be running the Havoc for 5 weeks, and only stacking the 3-AD for the last 2, or would I need to stack all 5 weeks?
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Honestly, everyone will respond differently. It looks as though you respond very well to the havoc though. When i took 3-AD, i started to notice effects at the end of week 2/beginning week 3. I would have it in there 4-5 weeks if possible to get all you can from it.

I think a 15-20lb weight increase in 4-5 weeks is very much a possibility. The strength gains from this cycle should be very impressive overall.

You could gains less, or even more depending on how you have it set up. If this is a straight bulker (which is what i recommend this for), you can do well with this cycle.
 
glockgod said:
just got done with the cycle

3AD

4 a day for 1st and last week
6 a day for 2,3,4, weeks

Started Epi on 2nd week for 4 weeks

20mg/day 1st week
30mg/day 2nd
40mg/day for last 2

I was told to get the cissus, but I didn't and my joints were so achy...

also got some unwelcome acne, overall i felt like I was a brittle 80 year old man.

About 2 weeks after the end of the Epi cycle I started to feel normal again.[/QUOTE


How were your gains???
Click to expand...
 
Trauma1 said:
Honestly, everyone will respond differently. It looks as though you respond very well to the havoc though. When i took 3-AD, i started to notice effects at the end of week 2/beginning week 3. I would have it in there 4-5 weeks if possible to get all you can from it.

I think a 15-20lb weight increase in 4-5 weeks is very much a possibility. The strength gains from this cycle should be very impressive overall.

You could gains less, or even more depending on how you have it set up. If this is a straight bulker (which is what i recommend this for), you can do well with this cycle.
Click to expand...

I think I could get 15-20Lb's with the Havoc solo, would it be naive to look for more with the 2 stacked? 20-25?

It would be a bulk, but I would still be trying to eat as clean as possible, though the calories will be plenty over maintenance!
 
sublimejeh said:
glockgod said:
just got done with the cycle

3AD

4 a day for 1st and last week
6 a day for 2,3,4, weeks

Started Epi on 2nd week for 4 weeks

20mg/day 1st week
30mg/day 2nd
40mg/day for last 2

I was told to get the cissus, but I didn't and my joints were so achy...

also got some unwelcome acne, overall i felt like I was a brittle 80 year old man.

About 2 weeks after the end of the Epi cycle I started to feel normal again.[/QUOTE


How were your gains???
Click to expand...


My gains were very much hampered by beer. But i think if i was totally dry for the cycle I would have passed my previous strenght benchmark.

Size wise I was very happy with just 3AD, when i stacked with the Epi it made it even better.

I will be doing another 3AD w/o a doubt, but I'm not sure If i will stack it with the Epi.

When i did 3ad alone I had virtually zero side effects, when I did it with Epi it was bad.

Joint aches, hair sheddding and acne.
Click to expand...
 
glockgod said:
sublimejeh said:
My gains were very much hampered by beer. But i think if i was totally dry for the cycle I would have passed my previous strenght benchmark.

Size wise I was very happy with just 3AD, when i stacked with the Epi it made it even better.

I will be doing another 3AD w/o a doubt, but I'm not sure If i will stack it with the Epi.

When i did 3ad alone I had virtually zero side effects, when I did it with Epi it was bad.

Joint aches, hair sheddding and acne.
Click to expand...

Odd, I never had any of those sides with Havoc? Hopefully its doesn't happen to me if I do stack Havoc/3-AD
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Orangepeel said:
I think I could get 15-20Lb's with the Havoc solo, would it be naive to look for more with the 2 stacked? 20-25?

It would be a bulk, but I would still be trying to eat as clean as possible, though the calories will be plenty over maintenance!
Click to expand...

It is possible indeed. If you set this up as a serious bulker, you could definitely get those serious gains from the cycle.
 
Trauma1 said:
It is possible indeed. If you set this up as a serious bulker, you could definitely get those serious gains from the cycle.
Click to expand...
i really wouldnt expect 25lbs from any prohormone cycle to be honest, thats a lot of weight. however it would definitely be a sick stack
 
sublimejeh said:
i really wouldnt expect 25lbs from any prohormone cycle to be honest, thats a lot of weight. however it would definitely be a sick stack
Click to expand...

I hear ya, and I completely agree. A solid 10-15lbs from any oral cycle is a great accomplishment and success, imo. Putting on too much weight in a short amount of time doesn't end up being the quality type of gains you're after either.

The stack though should be sick indeed! :food:
 
Yeah I'm not sure I'd want to add 20-25lbs in a 4-5 week period. My joints creek at times b/c of some college FB injuries and with the addition of that much weight it would probably be murder on my joints, especially my knees.:aargh:
However, I will be trying to add slabs of lean beef while on this stack and if 20lbs happens, then I welcome it. Seeing as though I didn't see any sides from the havoc the first couple times I 've taken it, it will be interesting to see if the introduction of a milder compound (3-AD) in regards to sides effects me. We'll just have to see the hard way.
:squat:

Oh by the way, T1 I CAN'T STOP STARING AT YOUR AVATAR!:blink: I think I drewled on myself a couple of times.
 
sublimejeh said:
i really wouldnt expect 25lbs from any prohormone cycle to be honest, thats a lot of weight. however it would definitely be a sick stack
Click to expand...

That is exactly what I was saying, but if I gained 20 lbs from a solo Havoc run, and can't get 25 by including the 3-AD, what would be the benefit from the 3-AD? Havoc already added 20 lbs AND leaned me out!

PS. It would make for an absolutely sick log! This is my pan so far:

Invalid Link Removed
 
Orangepeel said:
Bumppp ???
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Honestly, it's tough to say exactly what you'll gain overall from this cycle due to lack or anecdotal reports at this point. I plan on doing it myself at some point next year.

Based on the overall nature of the 2 compounds, i'd say you won't be disappointed with the results, but to put an exact number on potential gains at this point would only be pure speculation. I really do believe the synergy of the 2 compounds will have some impressive mass gains, and glycogen retention properties. I'd postulate the strength gains alone would be insane.

The key factor though is that gaining such a large amount of weight in a short amount of time is very often hard to maintain for many reasons overall. A good deal of the explosive weight gain from oral compounds goes into glycogen retention, and subsequent water retention. If anything, don't worry about what the scale says as much, the mirror will always be the best indicator of success. :)

Was that your first cycle when you gained 20lbs with havoc?
 
Trauma1 said:
Honestly, it's tough to say exactly what you'll gain overall from this cycle due to lack or anecdotal reports at this point. I plan on doing it myself at some point next year.

Based on the overall nature of the 2 compounds, i'd say you won't be disappointed with the results, but to put an exact number on potential gains at this point would only be pure speculation. I really do believe the synergy of the 2 compounds will have some impressive mass gains, and glycogen retention properties. I'd postulate the strength gains alone would be insane.

The key factor though is that gaining such a large amount of weight in a short amount of time is very often hard to maintain for many reasons overall. A good deal of the explosive weight gain from oral compounds goes into glycogen retention, and subsequent water retention. If anything, don't worry about what the scale says as much, the mirror will always be the best indicator of success. :)

Was that your first cycle when you gained 20lbs with havoc?
Click to expand...

No when I was a dumb@ss young guy, I ran 2 cycles 2 years apart. (OG superdrol, and one not OTC, at the very least I did do my research and had a proper PCT for them) I waited a few years and the only thing I touched was protein/multi etc. until I ran the Havoc

I did a 10-20/20/30/30/40 gained 20Lbs which I COULD have kept all of had I not tried to lean out more, and even then I only lost 5 of it. The havoc leaned me out while I gained those 20lbs as well, and my strength went through the roof, I put something like 55Lbs on my bench, and got up to 100lbs DB bench for 7 reps, and all my other lift basically followed that!

The thing is I want to know if the extra $100 is really worth it for the 3-AD, it sounds like a great stack, but from my experience Havoc solo is a great stack! I don't just look at the scale but I mean everything I looked at, the mirror the weight on the bar was just crazy on Havoc, and this time I will definitely have a log or at the least before and afters!
 
No help from the AX guys? What can I expect from the 3-AD on top of the benefits I have already expirienced with the Havoc solo?
 
Orange, I just don't think there is enough info out there on these 2 compounds stacked together to make any accurate predictions. Everything would just be speculation and assumptions. And you know what the same about ASSUMING THINGS. The best way to find out is to try them and log it so everyone doesn't have to go through the same speculation. Anyway when are you going to give this stack a go. I'm starting on March 1st and will start loading support supps 2 weeks before that.

Any thoughts on PCT for this stack? I was thinking aPCT, Nolva (30,20,10,10), maybe sustain alpha, maybe DTHC:think:. Any thoughts from the AX guys?:stick:
 
glockgod said:
just got done with the cycle

3AD

4 a day for 1st and last week
6 a day for 2,3,4, weeks

Started Epi on 2nd week for 4 weeks

20mg/day 1st week
30mg/day 2nd
40mg/day for last 2

I was told to get the cissus, but I didn't and my joints were so achy...

also got some unwelcome acne, overall i felt like I was a brittle 80 year old man.

About 2 weeks after the end of the Epi cycle I started to feel normal again.
Click to expand...


hey i was thinking of running the same cycle...i was curious what time of day you took the Epi? Pre/post Workout? I appreciate the input.
 
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