first cycle ever. p plex baby

[mitcht33]

alright so this will be my first cycle. I have done my share of research and such.

my cycle is as follows:

CEL pplex
30/30/30/30

support supplements:

- Glucosamine and chondroiten (sp)

- creatine, glutamine, l-arginine

- Hawthorne berry, preloaded it 1 week before cycle.

- Milk thistle

PCT:

My brother has told me he always ran a nolva only pct and was fine, but ill add in 6-oxo for after the nolva.

nolva: 40/40/20/20 (weeks 1-4)

6-oxo: (weeks 4-8)

Diet:

im on a partially clean bulk, but getting TONS of calories in, i dont count calories but i know i get enough. 7-8 meals a day or more.

Ill have a couple cheat days a week for getting even more calories.

Goal:
to gain 10-15 lbs with some water (ofcourse some water with p plex)

Get stronger on all lifts.

GET HUGE.

 

[mitcht33]

day 1

popped my first pill in the morning and then one at lunch, and then 45's prior to my workout.

Today was shoulders and triceps.

my wqorkout was just like any other workout, it was a great workout, but im not expecting to feel anything for about 5 days atleast.


PUMPED FOR ABOUT WEEK 3

 

[mitcht33]

day 2

Ill be following the same timing for taking the pills as of day one.

today was Back and traps.


good workout, but still nothing to report. I feel slighty more aggressive but im pretty sure its all in my head.

 

[mitcht33]

day 3

Today is an off day,

nothing to report still, my back is sore but im definately calling that one on the heavy deadlifts yesterday not back pumps


legs tomorrow!!!

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I would have went with something milder for the 1st cycle but it appears you have a good setup. I would run Nolva 20/20/20/20 and start the 6 oxo in weeks 3 of pct and taper the dose down each week.

 

[WeightShift]

Definitely in your head this far. Just knowing you're taking hormones/prohormones can pump you up.

With pro-hormones, look for noticeable effects at the end of week 2.

EDIT: Pem beat me to the PCT part

 

[mitcht33]

I would have went with something milder for the 1st cycle but it appears you have a good setup. I would run Nolva 20/20/20/20 and start the 6 oxo in weeks 3 of pct and taper the dose down each week.

okay thanks alot.

Yeah ive read some places that starting the nolva at 40 for the first 2 weeks isnt necessary, so thats good ill save some nolva for another cycle and im a-ok with the 6-oxo as you said.

 

[mitcht33]

just found out from my source that the nolva, is 40 mg per tab. not 20, would this be overkill ? now i dont know what to do...

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

I would try to cut them in half if possible.

 

[WeightShift]

Its not necessarily going to hurt you to do 40, but as Pem said, 20 is just the smarter dose. Take a knife, line it half way or along the split mark if there is one, and give it a good hit with your palm to split it. Its against common sense, but trying to slowly cut through it is more likely to crush it.

 

[mitcht33]

Its not necessarily going to hurt you to do 40, but as Pem said, 20 is just the smarter dose. Take a knife, line it half way or along the split mark if there is one, and give it a good hit with your palm to split it. Its against common sense, but trying to slowly cut through it is more likely to crush it.

lol cant cut em guys, they are caps. would i be better off with somethign else for pct? and maybe it will be cheaper? thanks.

 

[papapumpsd]

lol cant cut em guys, they are caps. would i be better off with somethign else for pct? and maybe it will be cheaper? thanks.

Caps come apart. Just take 1/2 the volume of one cap. You don't need to be very quantitative here. The point is that 40mg is excessive and it's wiser to go with <40. So dump ~1/2 of a cap into some liquid.

And BTW, if you have 40mg capsules, how did you plan on getting down to 20mg during PCT? Just go w/a liquid next time or tabs (easy to cut w/a pill splitter).

 

[mitcht33]

Caps come apart. Just take 1/2 the volume of one cap. You don't need to be very quantitative here. The point is that 40mg is excessive and it's wiser to go with <40. So dump ~1/2 of a cap into some liquid.

And BTW, if you have 40mg capsules, how did you plan on getting down to 20mg during PCT? Just go w/a liquid next time or tabs (easy to cut w/a pill splitter).

because i didnt havew the nolva yet. I know yo arent sup[posed to start your cycle without it but it was 100% that i had it. and i was right.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

because i didnt havew the nolva yet. I know yo arent sup[posed to start your cycle without it but it was 100% that i had it. and i was right.

I was not aware it came in cap form I have only seen it in liquid and pill form.:thumbsup:

 

[monsterbox]

Definitely in your head this far. Just knowing you're taking hormones/prohormones can pump you up.

With pro-hormones, look for noticeable effects at the end of week 2.

EDIT: Pem beat me to the PCT part

Id say thats a big stetch. Day 14-15 should be when it kicks in hard...however, I definitely noticed major pumped up/mind set effects both times with havoc at day 3-4.

I remember having the most intense pumps ever at day 4 of 30mg with havoc and tons of stamina, just not the strength part yet.


Look for noticable effects of test-e at week 2-3

 

[ibanezman08]

good luck
cycle looks good to me.

dosages are a little on the low side but you should gain some quality mass from this.

PCT looks ok.

however, i don't believe in 4 week cycles. you loose your gains post cycle.

ever think about bridging to a non-methylated compound to run for another 4 weeks?

you might need some clomid post-cycle if you do this depending on which compound you use.

 

[mitcht33]

good luck
cycle looks good to me.

dosages are a little on the low side but you should gain some quality mass from this.

PCT looks ok.

however, i don't believe in 4 week cycles. you loose your gains post cycle.

ever think about bridging to a non-methylated compound to run for another 4 weeks?

you might need some clomid post-cycle if you do this depending on which compound you use.

its my first cycle i want to keep it easy..


anyways guys, today was day 4 chets and biceps, my bench press has improved! personal records on all lifts today, i definately can say i feel more pumped in the gym, and doing biceps i got a really good pump but it was painful after.. haha so pumepd for about day 14.

 

[mitcht33]

I was not aware it came in cap form I have only seen it in liquid and pill form.:thumbsup:

my source is an underground lab, thats how they make them. The source is very reputable though. no problems for not being legit and such. 100% legit.

 

[ibanezman08]

its my first cycle i want to keep it easy..


anyways guys, today was day 4 chets and biceps, my bench press has improved! personal records on all lifts today, i definately can say i feel more pumped in the gym, and doing biceps i got a really good pump but it was painful after.. haha so pumepd for about day 14.

ah gottcha

i did epistane only for my first cycle.

 

[mitcht33]

guys it possible to be getting gyno on cycle? my nipples are more puffy then normal unless its all in my head... and will the nolva have taken care of this after pct is done?

 

[WeightShift]

Generally, pplex is considered to be extremely low on the aromatization scale, but lately several people have complained about gyno flair on it. Wierd.

How far in are you? Either way, if you suspect gyno, go ahead and start taking a 20mg dose of Nolva every day and continue using for a few days after the symptoms subside..

 

[crazyfool405]

are you using any type of support supps? other then hawthorne and milk thistle

ie- Cycle support

youll need it for your liver BP and cholesterol

 

[mitcht33]

are you using any type of support supps? other then hawthorne and milk thistle

ie- Cycle support

youll need it for your liver BP and cholesterol

nope no cycle support.. i feel fine with the BP levels as of now, but never got a hold of any cycle support supp, im just doing it real basic i geuss you could say, i think it will all work out.

 

[crazyfool405]

nope no cycle support.. i feel fine with the BP levels as of now, but never got a hold of any cycle support supp, im just doing it real basic i geuss you could say, i think it will all work out.

then add in some garlic bro and co q 10

 

[UofMRo]

pplex is really good, I got 12 lbs off it in a 3-4 week cycle!

 

[Rugger]

nope no cycle support.. i feel fine with the BP levels as of now, but never got a hold of any cycle support supp, im just doing it real basic i geuss you could say, i think it will all work out.

This is humorous.

 

[mitcht33]

This is humorous.

not everyone feels the need for cycle support dude.

 

[mitcht33]

This is humorous.

not everyone feels the need for cycle support dude.


but i think your laughing at the fact that i said, "im tyring to keep it simple" lol i guess i shouldnt have said that..


im fine without it though i feel great. except nipples are definately getting puffier by the day... good thing i got my nolva.

 

[A_I_Sports_Nutrition]

not everyone feels the need for cycle support dude.

Keep a eye on it bro. It is fairly common to have itchy or puffy nips while on cycle just make sure no hard lumps are forming under the nipple. I would also use some type of support as crazyfool suggested even if it is not Cycle Support.

 

[monsterbox]

use some b6 200mg/day see if the nipple puffiness decreases. could be the prolactin increase from phera rather than the estrogen. Maybe take some 6oxo. I wouldn't take a SERM. The issue is controlling estrogen if your are aromatizing, or controlling prolactin.

 

[mitcht33]

i was goign to start taking the nolva due to the puffy nipples and ithcy nipples. should i hold that off then? and wait to take it for a more serious case? or what? help me out guys, first cycle im unsure.

 

[UofMRo]

Pplex Is Good

 

[monsterbox]

i was goign to start taking the nolva due to the puffy nipples and ithcy nipples. should i hold that off then? and wait to take it for a more serious case? or what? help me out guys, first cycle im unsure.

take some f*cking B6 now. Order some PowerFull if your can.

Ive been doing alot of researching as I want to run phera.


I doesn't look like its estrogen causing the puffiness/itching its prolactin which is caused by raised progesterone.

You need a dopamine agonist...

take B6 400-500mg for a few days spaced out dosages and see if this helps anything! Report back asap.


I'm willing to bet nolva won't do much in this situation but make it worse as nolva is proven to upregulate the receptors for progesterone.

WHY THE HELL isn't it pressed on this board for people running SD/Phera/Tren that its mandatory for dopamine agonist...everyone cares so much about SERMS when half the time it looks like people contract gyno from prolactin/progesterone.

Correct me if i'm wrong guys:think:


People also freak out over the wetness of phera and say its because of estrogen and recommened an AI during cycle.

1st - this is aldersterone making you puffy not estrogen
2nd- people tie this with estrogen because they contract gyno, and I think the gyno is simply from prolactin. BUT killing all estrogen won't allow prolactin to get out of control so people use SERMS/AI's which can help but its not solving the problem correctly at the heart. The problem is too some people are too prolactin/progesterone sensative with their regular estrogen levels = use dopamine agonist! Before,during,pct!






From Tren Designer Sticky <<<Pheraplex / SD should not be treated as if they were progestins

PCT Information for "Tren" Designers - AKA Progestins

During my research into these designers, I caught snippets of info regarding PCT, specifically, which SERM to use. Many supported using Clomid as opposed to Nolvadex for gyno prevention.

Tamoxifen is a SERM, one of its known activities is to upregulate the expression of the Progesterone receptor. Clomid is a SERM, not really suitable for gyno treatment but at least it does not upregulate the progesterone receptor. It is effective for PCT.

Source - Tren Xtreme PCT CONFUSION!(serious)lots of reps for serious answers [Archive] - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Here's more from PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums
One drawback to consider about Nolva is that it may cause progesterone receptors to become more sensitive. This means that while using progestins such as Deca or Tren, you may become more sensetive to progestin related gyno.
Treatment of Progestin Related Gyno

According to some members writing in this thread, (Kristofer68SS and bigpapa) Cabergoline, Letrozole and Bromo can be effective to control progestin induced gynocomastia after the cycle. They are not used as a SERM like clomid to prevent gyno, but rather to treat existing gyno. L-dopa and P-5-P as well. "P-5-P is the active enzyme form of vitamin B6 that does not require activation by the liver." Feel free to post more info on this and I'll add it here.

 

[facko]

take some f*cking B6 now. Order some PowerFull if your can.

Ive been doing alot of researching as I want to run phera.


I doesn't look like its estrogen causing the puffiness/itching its prolactin which is caused by raised progesterone.

You need a dopamine agonist...

take B6 400-500mg for a few days spaced out dosages and see if this helps anything! Report back asap.


I'm willing to bet nolva won't do much in this situation but make it worse as nolva is proven to upregulate the receptors for progesterone.

WHY THE HELL isn't it pressed on this board for people running SD/Phera/Tren that its mandatory for dopamine agonist...everyone cares so much about SERMS when half the time it looks like people contract gyno from prolactin/progesterone.

Correct me if i'm wrong guys:think:


People also freak out over the wetness of phera and say its because of estrogen and recommened an AI during cycle.

1st - this is aldersterone making you puffy not estrogen
2nd- people tie this with estrogen because they contract gyno, and I think the gyno is simply from prolactin. BUT killing all estrogen won't allow prolactin to get out of control so people use SERMS/AI's which can help but its not solving the problem correctly at the heart. The problem is too some people are too prolactin/progesterone sensative with their regular estrogen levels = use dopamine agonist! Before,during,pct!






From Tren Designer Sticky <<<Pheraplex / SD should not be treated as if they were progestins

PCT Information for "Tren" Designers - AKA Progestins

During my research into these designers, I caught snippets of info regarding PCT, specifically, which SERM to use. Many supported using Clomid as opposed to Nolvadex for gyno prevention.

Tamoxifen is a SERM, one of its known activities is to upregulate the expression of the Progesterone receptor. Clomid is a SERM, not really suitable for gyno treatment but at least it does not upregulate the progesterone receptor. It is effective for PCT.

Source - Tren Xtreme PCT CONFUSION!(serious)lots of reps for serious answers [Archive] - Bodybuilding.com Forums

Here's more from PCT and Cycle Recomendations: Estrogen, Progesterone and Cortisol control - Anabolic Steroids - Steroid.com / Anabolic Review Forums
One drawback to consider about Nolva is that it may cause progesterone receptors to become more sensitive. This means that while using progestins such as Deca or Tren, you may become more sensetive to progestin related gyno.
Treatment of Progestin Related Gyno

According to some members writing in this thread, (Kristofer68SS and bigpapa) Cabergoline, Letrozole and Bromo can be effective to control progestin induced gynocomastia after the cycle. They are not used as a SERM like clomid to prevent gyno, but rather to treat existing gyno. L-dopa and P-5-P as well. "P-5-P is the active enzyme form of vitamin B6 that does not require activation by the liver." Feel free to post more info on this and I'll add it here.

Yes, you are correct that it is prolactin induced gyno..however the reason why a dopamine agonist is not needed, is because progesterone and prolactin CAN NOT cause gyno nor gyno symptoms without the presence of SIGNIFICANT amounts of estrogen. I promise you, if you are on an AI and are taking tren, deca, p plex...whatever..if you are on adex or letro..you will not get gyno symptoms...with or without a dopamine agonist. This should be used alongside an AI in regards to treatment of preexisting prolactin/prog aggravated gyno, however..as I said before it can be completed prevented by controlling estrogen alone.

 

[monsterbox]

Yes, you are correct that it is prolactin induced gyno..however the reason why a dopamine agonist is not needed, is because progesterone and prolactin CAN NOT cause gyno nor gyno symptoms without the presence of SIGNIFICANT amounts of estrogen. I promise you, if you are on an AI and are taking tren, deca, p plex...whatever..if you are on adex or letro..you will not get gyno symptoms...with or without a dopamine agonist. This should be used alongside an AI in regards to treatment of preexisting prolactin/prog aggravated gyno, however..as I said before it can be completed prevented by controlling estrogen alone.

well how would you have excess estrogen with a non-aromatizing compound

So then the point changes to running an AI with pheraplex...well this cuts into the gains and dry's out your joints etc....why not just run p-5-p and powefull before/during/after your cycle?

This is why people develop deca ****

I just dont understand! lol

 

[crazyfool405]

from reseach ive been doing hyperprolactinemia can be cause by LOW SHBG as well. which all steroids do to a point.

 

[pistonpump]

Id say thats a big stetch. Day 14-15 should be when it kicks in hard...however, I definitely noticed major pumped up/mind set effects both times with havoc at day 3-4.

I remember having the most intense pumps ever at day 4 of 30mg with havoc and tons of stamina, just not the strength part yet.


Look for noticable effects of test-e at week 2-3

we arent talking about havoc here. Havoc and Pplex work very different. And Test-E????? where did that come from? Have you ever ran Test -e in the first place? Effects arent noticable at week 2-3.

 

[pistonpump]

good luck
cycle looks good to me.

dosages are a little on the low side but you should gain some quality mass from this.

PCT looks ok.

however, i don't believe in 4 week cycles. you loose your gains post cycle.

ever think about bridging to a non-methylated compound to run for another 4 weeks?

you might need some clomid post-cycle if you do this depending on which compound you use.

i have to disagree. If the pplex is accurately dosed then 30mg is alot for a first timer. I also dont think your statement on 4 week cycles is true. Some people hold more with longer cycles and some hold more with shorter ones. Personally i lose more with longer cycles because the crash is much harder.

 

[Pole23]

i have to disagree. If the pplex is accurately dosed then 30mg is alot for a first timer. I also dont think your statement on 4 week cycles is true. Some people hold more with longer cycles and some hold more with shorter ones. Personally i lose more with longer cycles because the crash is much harder.

ok...so what do you suggest for the perfect pplex cycle..including PCT for some1 who has at least ran a cycle before pplex..like havoc or something else that is as mild?

Lewy

 

[facko]

well how would you have excess estrogen with a non-aromatizing compound

So then the point changes to running an AI with pheraplex...well this cuts into the gains and dry's out your joints etc....why not just run p-5-p and powefull before/during/after your cycle?

This is why people develop deca ****

I just dont understand! lol

Yes true..and this explains why alot of people dislike oral only...and this includes the case of designers like pplex etc. You wouldn't run into this problem with some test added and a conservative amount of adex. Also, you made a point of nolva upregulating, and this is true...however it also blocks estrogen at the site as we know. And as stated before, without estrogen, prolactin cannot aggravate or cause gyno, so the upregulating effect of nolva won't mean anything, because it is also block estrogen at the site. This is in use of prevention!...if you didn't control estrogen and prolactin aggravated it, then using nolva will not work in treatment..and an AI would work, but a dopamine agonist along with an AI like letro would be better for treatment. Also, there does not need to be excess estrogen, as you said, just the presence of significant amounts, and there will be naturally, without aromatizing gear.

 

[pistonpump]

ok...so what do you suggest for the perfect pplex cycle..including PCT for some1 who has at least ran a cycle before pplex..like havoc or something else that is as mild?

Lewy

its all dependant on the individual. So you plan on running PP and you have done one cycle before? (havoc)? I would suggest at your size 30/45/45/60.

 

[monsterbox]

so should all pheraplex cycle include:

B6, L-dopa, and a low dosed AI (25mg ATD) on cycle?

 

[monsterbox]

we arent talking about havoc here. Havoc and Pplex work very different. And Test-E????? where did that come from? Have you ever ran Test -e in the first place? Effects arent noticable at week 2-3.

I guess you didnt read what I qouted.

Originally Posted by WeightShift
Definitely in your head this far. Just knowing you're taking hormones/prohormones can pump you up.

With pro-hormones, look for noticeable effects at the end of week 2.

Originally Posted by WeightShift
Definitely in your head this far. Just knowing you're taking hormones/prohormones can pump you up.

With pro-hormones, look for noticeable effects at the end of week 2.

EDIT: Pem beat me to the PCT part

Id say thats a big stetch. Day 14-15 should be when it kicks in hard...however, I definitely noticed major pumped up/mind set effects both times with havoc at day 3-4.

I remember having the most intense pumps ever at day 4 of 30mg with havoc and tons of stamina, just not the strength part yet.


Look for noticable effects of test-e at week 2-3

the guy said look for effects of pro-hormones around week 2-3....I was saying Havc (which is an oral) I noticed effects in 3 days.

I didn't say that about phera..but I do know from research that phera takes a little while to kick in...but it shouldn't take 2 weeks to start working.

And on top of this, I haven't ran test-e...but I thought the strength and weight gain effects start week 2-3. Hence the difference between pro-hormones and popular injectables.

 

[facko]

so should all pheraplex cycle include:

B6, L-dopa, and a low dosed AI (25mg ATD) on cycle?

To be honest, I think it is a minority (although significant) experience puffy nipples or gyno symptoms from pplex. I feel that a low dosed AI is sufficient in preventing gyno symptoms from pplex..and that for treatment of gyno symptoms from pplex, b6 and an AI together will work fine.

 

[mitcht33]

guys i decided to just run a low dose of nolva through the cycle.. the CAPS are 40 mg each.. so i need to split them into 20, how do i re-seal the capsule, and how do i go about taking the powder i extract from it?


thanks.

 

[pistonpump]

so should all pheraplex cycle include:

B6, L-dopa, and a low dosed AI (25mg ATD) on cycle?

thats a little excessive imo unless you already are having problems. I dont think that is needed as far as prevention. just my opinion.

 

[pistonpump]

guys i decided to just run a low dose of nolva through the cycle.. the CAPS are 40 mg each.. so i need to split them into 20, how do i re-seal the capsule, and how do i go about taking the powder i extract from it?


thanks.

you would need to buy empty caps then open the full ones and half them by eyeball. Do the cycle without nolva or ai or prolactin agonist and if you have problems you can work from there. Just because others have problems doesnt mean you will. Some will argue the prevention before problems arise but in this case i would go with it as it comes.

 

[WeightShift]

you would need to buy empty caps then open the full ones and half them by eyeball. Do the cycle without nolva or ai or prolactin agonist and if you have problems you can work from there. Just because others have problems doesnt mean you will. Some will argue the prevention before problems arise but in this case i would go with it as it comes.

I totally agree here. People shove so many compounds into their bodies preemptively. Unless youre boasting a gram a week of oil, mid cycle SERM & AI is a bit overboard.

I do have a lot of things on hand just in case though.

 

[mitcht33]

alright so save it for pct? ill do that, but right now i am getting pretty puffy nips and they are ithcy, im just worried.. oh well but back on the topic of splitting the capsule, cant i just put the other half of the nolva in some kind of liquid and drink it? and how do i reseal the caps with the other half of the extract?

 

[pistonpump]

alright so save it for pct? ill do that, but right now i am getting pretty puffy nips and they are ithcy, im just worried.. oh well but back on the topic of splitting the capsule, cant i just put the other half of the nolva in some kind of liquid and drink it? and how do i reseal the caps with the other half of the extract?

the capsule should be two parts you just slide the wider side over the other... to open just pull the wider side off of the other side. real easy.

why are your nipps itchy have you started already?