libido is down since ive started Letro

colorado

New member
Hello, im 25 YO M, and ive been on TRT since april of this year. My doc and endro "Had" me taking 150mg a week which was barely getting me by. The doc wrote the script out for 200mg a week so thats what ive been taking. Ive also had extreme atrophy in my testicles, and i have a lot of nipple sensitivity (the endro specialist said i i have gyno too). I asked about taking a SERM or AI and they said No. So i started taking some letro for the last 8-10 weeks to get my symptoms to subside, and they have. Im going to get off and have my blood work done again in 6 weeks. In the meantime ive had worse and worse libido and erection issues. I need some help and possibly a new doc. Any suggestions?
 
colorado said:
Hello, im 25 YO M, and ive been on TRT since april of this year. My doc and endro "Had" me taking 150mg a week which was barely getting me by. The doc wrote the script out for 200mg a week so thats what ive been taking. Ive also had extreme atrophy in my testicles, and i have a lot of nipple sensitivity (the endro specialist said i i have gyno too). I asked about taking a SERM or AI and they said No. So i started taking some letro for the last 8-10 weeks to get my symptoms to subside, and they have. Im going to get off and have my blood work done again in 6 weeks. In the meantime ive had worse and worse libido and erection issues. I need some help and possibly a new doc. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

You need a doc who understands that you dont want to get by, you want to feel good. Bro you took it into your own hands with the letro, that is the KING DRAGON SLAYER of LIBIDO, you did that to yourself. If i were you and I am no Dr. I would have taken an OTC supplement like EStane which helps with gyno, and will elevate your test levels being that it is a hormone, or maybe even a mild AI like 6-oxo.
 
Letro is a very potent AI and long acting as well. It does an execellent job of stopping estrogen conversion. The lack of libido is probably a sign of decreased estrogen since estrogen is necessary for a properly functioning libido.

If you trying to get rid of gyno, then you need to run high doses (and zapped libido and aching joints are a side effect). If you're only trying to control estrogen, then you need to back off on the dosage. How much are you taking right now?
 
colorado said:
Hello, im 25 YO M, and ive been on TRT since april of this year. My doc and endro "Had" me taking 150mg a week which was barely getting me by. The doc wrote the script out for 200mg a week so thats what ive been taking. Ive also had extreme atrophy in my testicles, and i have a lot of nipple sensitivity (the endro specialist said i i have gyno too). I asked about taking a SERM or AI and they said No. So i started taking some letro for the last 8-10 weeks to get my symptoms to subside, and they have. Im going to get off and have my blood work done again in 6 weeks. In the meantime ive had worse and worse libido and erection issues. I need some help and possibly a new doc. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Best would be to get the right doctor.

It is easier to say than actualy find good doc.

If your doc writes you scripts for test and any blood tests you want he is a keeper.

You may have all kind of problems, but speaking of those that you have mentioned;

For AI use Liquidex=Anastrozole=Arimidex no need for a script and much easier to get fractional dose, since it is a liquid.
Dispense it with insuline syringe with completely cut off needle.

Do not use any other AI, other than Anastrozole type of AI.

To get your testis back, use HCG, (just keep googling).

You do not have to tell doc about HCG and AI, he probably would not know the difference any how.

But you have to get script for these tests at Quest Diagnostics:

Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone (204X)

200mg/week should be enough for you, probably is too much.
Just go by tests.


Your goals
E2(20-30) fine tune by nightly erections
BAT~575
DHT in upper range or slightly above it

Blood draw ar Quest, 48hrs after the T shot.

-------------------------------
You will need other tests to find where you stand.
If you will ask, wee will talk later.

Good luck.

----------------------------------------------------------
About your 200mg/week
Use EOD schedule, every other day
each shot 0.285cc=28.5units=57mg

use this needle, shoot straight in, glutes, thighs, delts,
slightly sideway if around the navel.
Use single hand, press the syringe thight against flesh, make 1/4" indentation.

Invalid Link Removed
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95





.
 
Apowerz6 said:
You need a doc who understands that you dont want to get by, you want to feel good. Bro you took it into your own hands with the letro, that is the KING DRAGON SLAYER of LIBIDO, you did that to yourself. If i were you and I am no Dr. I would have taken an OTC supplement like EStane which helps with gyno, and will elevate your test levels being that it is a hormone, or maybe even a mild AI like 6-oxo.
Click to expand...

Estane is a clone of epistane. It is a steroid and will NOT help w/ gyno and will not elevate your test levels. It will suppress them.

Sounds to me like you need to find a new doctor. Janz's advice is pretty much spot on.
 
What was your dose of letro? Most AIs can really kill the libido because they lower estrogen too much.
 
JanSz said:
Best would be to get the right doctor.

It is easier to say than actualy find good doc.

If your doc writes you scripts for test and any blood tests you want he is a keeper.

You may have all kind of problems, but speaking of those that you have mentioned;

For AI use Liquidex=Anastrozole=Arimidex no need for a script and much easier to get fractional dose, since it is a liquid.
Dispense it with insuline syringe with completely cut off needle.

Do not use any other AI, other than Anastrozole type of AI.

To get your testis back, use HCG, (just keep googling).

You do not have to tell doc about HCG and AI, he probably would not know the difference any how.

But you have to get script for these tests at Quest Diagnostics:

Estradiol, Ultrasensitive, LC/MS/MS (30289X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
Dihydrotestosterone (204X)

200mg/week should be enough for you, probably is too much.
Just go by tests.


Your goals
E2(20-30) fine tune by nightly erections
BAT~575
DHT in upper range or slightly above it

Blood draw ar Quest, 48hrs after the T shot.

-------------------------------
You will need other tests to find where you stand.
If you will ask, wee will talk later.

Good luck.

----------------------------------------------------------
About your 200mg/week
Use EOD schedule, every other day
each shot 0.285cc=28.5units=57mg

use this needle, shoot straight in, glutes, thighs, delts,
slightly sideway if around the navel.
Use single hand, press the syringe thight against flesh, make 1/4" indentation.

Invalid Link Removed
BD Ultrafine II U-100 Insulin Syringe 31 Gauge 3/10cc 5/16inch Short Needle--1/2 Unit Markings 100/b Price: $25.95





.
Click to expand...

Jans advice is good. Stop the Letro immediately. Once you get the wood back, along with the sore nipples, I would expect, start on .25 liquidex E3Ds. That should balance you. Ideally, you can get bloodwork once stabilized.

These docs don't know what they are doing, so it often seems. Then again, you prolly shouldn't have taken the law into your own hands without inquiring first. The Letro would be okay if you were juicing, rather than TRT.

Good luck.
 
Thanks everyone, its been a long battle and my story is pretty long with the docs. So ive been trying to keep it short.

I originally was taking anastrzole at .625mg ED. I was told by one of the Mods on another board to use letro to stop ALL conversion of estrogen and the possibility of growth in gyno. i originally started i worked my way up slowly to 2.5mg daily and tappered back down to .625mg (.25ml) daily. Ive been off the letro since mon and already things are getting better.

My doctors were confused on why my test levels were actually getting lower WITH the 200mg treatment EOW. my levels were at 140 ng/dl. So they brought my dosing up to 300mg EOW. my blood levels were dropping off extremely fast so i asked if i could do Every week injections of 150mg. they agreed. MY blood levels were 486 ng/dl and free test was at 19.7 i believe.
 
Ive also just did a quick blast of HCG doing 500 iu's E3D for two weeks which restored some of the size in my testicles and i felt pretty good too. My Endro said HCG is ONLY for fertility reasons and is way too expensive of an option wether i have good insurance or not. This is were ive lost a majority of my trust in my endro. MY primary care physcian was very through and open to some other test that i wanted ran. so im scheduling another appointment for the end of NOV.

MY question is should i stop using an AI and wait to get my blood work? Also which test should i request from the doc also?

Thanks for the help everyone!
 
crazilyfter42 said:
Estane is a clone of epistane. It is a steroid and will NOT help w/ gyno and will not elevate your test levels. It will suppress them.

Sounds to me like you need to find a new doctor. Janz's advice is pretty much spot on.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ if you read the anecdotal data and bro-data suggests different
from Invalid Link Removed

Finally the anabolic compound we have all been waiting for has arrived! Epistane™, exhibits a strong, long lasting anabolic and anti-estrogen effect by not only binding to the androgen receptor but by blocking the estrogen receptor, which can prevent the unwanted side effect called gynecomastia. Broad range estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors can result in system shut down, aching joints, and decreased IGF-I expression, however, Epistane™ binds specifically to the 17ß-estradiol receptor protein in the target tissues.

I was giving him a quick fix, and allowing him to gain some muscle mass in the process while getting his libido back, as it does give you a positive effect on libido. In addition if he is on HRT is trying to get a range and the test levels are raised from in fact the shot of test cyp, which is kinda a steroid, so suppression would be a definite, thats why the HCG would be better after the his levels are a corrected state.l
 
colorado said:
Ive also just did a quick blast of HCG doing 500 iu's E3D for two weeks which restored some of the size in my testicles and i felt pretty good too. My Endro said HCG is ONLY for fertility reasons and is way too expensive of an option wether i have good insurance or not. This is were ive lost a majority of my trust in my endro. MY primary care physcian was very through and open to some other test that i wanted ran. so im scheduling another appointment for the end of NOV.

MY question is should i stop using an AI and wait to get my blood work? Also which test should i request from the doc also?

Thanks for the help everyone!
Click to expand...

Your doc is wrong. hCG is on-label for secondary hypogonadism, per the insert. And it's not expensive. Retails at $45-$60 per month.
 
Apowerz6 said:
You need a doc who understands that you dont want to get by, you want to feel good. Bro you took it into your own hands with the letro, that is the KING DRAGON SLAYER of LIBIDO, you did that to yourself. If i were you and I am no Dr. I would have taken an OTC supplement like EStane which helps with gyno, and will elevate your test levels being that it is a hormone, or maybe even a mild AI like 6-oxo.
Click to expand...


HELLLLLL NO to Estane (a steroid which should NOT be used for gyno control, it will also DECREASE your natural test levels not raise them)

something like 6oxo would be great to use, 6 bromo EOD, ATD EOD, Aromasin 10mg EOD or Adex .5mg EOD.

no way would i ever touch letro, it will kill your libido, hop off that for about a week and then start up again with something like the above, but only pic one AI
 
Apowerz6 said:
I beg to differ if you read the anecdotal data and bro-data suggests different
from Invalid Link Removed

Finally the anabolic compound we have all been waiting for has arrived! Epistane™, exhibits a strong, long lasting anabolic and anti-estrogen effect by not only binding to the androgen receptor but by blocking the estrogen receptor, which can prevent the unwanted side effect called gynecomastia. Broad range estrogen blockers and aromatase inhibitors can result in system shut down, aching joints, and decreased IGF-I expression, however, Epistane™ binds specifically to the 17ß-estradiol receptor protein in the target tissues.

I was giving him a quick fix, and allowing him to gain some muscle mass in the process while getting his libido back, as it does give you a positive effect on libido. In addition if he is on HRT is trying to get a range and the test levels are raised from in fact the shot of test cyp, which is kinda a steroid, so suppression would be a definite, thats why the HCG would be better after the his levels are a corrected state.l
Click to expand...


is that right up from the origanol non methylated product, because you know what happenes when you nethylate a product even if its just the methylation process then changes

for example bold and Dbol same thing, but one is methylated, very different AA ratios.

also how do we know if it was actuall gyno they had, and not just some extra fat that a cycle of epi brought them down on the fat percentage scale making it appear that it was gone.

was iut diagnosed gyno?

does anyone have any blood work from an epi only cycle, from the middle point of the cycle to show that estradiol was indeed lowered instead of word of mouth?

its all hearsay i think
 
crazyfool405 said:
something like 6oxo would be great to use, 6 bromo EOD, ATD EOD, Aromasin 10mg EOD or Adex .5mg EOD.

no way would i ever touch letro, it will kill your libido, hop off that for about a week and then start up again with something like the above, but only pic one AI
Click to expand...

This doesn't make any sense to recommend getting off one AI for another. The fact that Letro destorys libido is only a testament to it's potency and active life. If you are trying to get rid of gyno via aromatase inhibition, a side effect of that is going to be severly reduced circulating estrogen that will destory libido. No matter what AI you use, if you're going to effectively block estrogen, you're going to have reduced libido. The fact that some don't kill libido is only a sign that there is still circulating estrogen.

You have three options as I see it regarding the gyno.

1. Take care of it surgically.

2. Attempt to use a SERM to get rid of gyno. The SERM will occupy estrogen receptors in the breast tissue blocking human estrogen from occupying those receptors.

3. Attempt to use an AI to get rid of gyno. The AI will prevent testosterone from converting to estrogen and cause actually estrogen levels to plummet drastically. An effective dose for getting rid of gyno is high and will cause your libido to drop.

So pick your poision.
 
badfish51581 said:
This doesn't make any sense to recommend getting off one AI for another. The fact that Letro destorys libido is only a testament to it's potency and active life. If you are trying to get rid of gyno via aromatase inhibition, a side effect of that is going to be severly reduced circulating estrogen that will destory libido. No matter what AI you use, if you're going to effectively block estrogen, you're going to have reduced libido. The fact that some don't kill libido is only a sign that there is still circulating estrogen.

You have three options as I see it regarding the gyno.

1. Take care of it surgically.

2. Attempt to use a SERM to get rid of gyno. The SERM will occupy estrogen receptors in the breast tissue blocking human estrogen from occupying those receptors.

3. Attempt to use an AI to get rid of gyno. The AI will prevent testosterone from converting to estrogen and cause actually estrogen levels to plummet drastically. An effective dose for getting rid of gyno is high and will cause your libido to drop.

So pick your poision.
Click to expand...


maybe ur confused,

getting off letro and taking a week off to allow the levels to get somewhat near normal then controlling it with a different less potent AI wont kill the libido and will keep signs of gyno at bay.

and bro, some estrogen is healthy, high estrogen is what causes the gyno if you keep estrogen within normal ranges, you can control gyno and not destroy libido.

a serm will only work depending on the size as well.

also when he comes off the serm, he will get a huge rebound.
 
crazyfool405 said:
maybe ur confused,

getting off letro and taking a week off to allow the levels to get somewhat near normal then controlling it with a different less potent AI wont kill the libido and will keep signs of gyno at bay.

and bro, some estrogen is healthy, high estrogen is what causes the gyno if you keep estrogen within normal ranges, you can control gyno and not destroy libido.

a serm will only work depending on the size as well.

also when he comes off the serm, he will get a huge rebound.
Click to expand...

My bad. I was under the impression he already HAD gyno in which case you need a strong AI. He could still use the letro by backing off the dose and going to an E3D protocol, but if he's just looking for estrogen control, then something weaker is a better call generally speaking.
 
badfish51581 said:
My bad. I was under the impression he already HAD gyno in which case you need a strong AI. He could still use the letro by backing off the dose and going to an E3D protocol, but if he's just looking for estrogen control, then something weaker is a better call generally speaking.
Click to expand...

and even if he had gyno, the size of it counts for something and if its hard or soft tissue,

soft tissue greatern then X cm nolva may not work for bc theres to much estro and just displaceing it wont work as well as if its under X cm.

Hard tissue needs to be removed via Surgery thouhg
 
crazyfool405 said:
and even if he had gyno, the size of it counts for something and if its hard or soft tissue,

soft tissue greatern then X cm nolva may not work for bc theres to much estro and just displaceing it wont work as well as if its under X cm.

Hard tissue needs to be removed via Surgery thouhg
Click to expand...

Cool, but he doesn't have it so there's no point in discussing the various gyno protocols. I think we both agree switching to a more mild AI should be adequate for estrogen control.
 
crazyfool405 said:
is that right up from the origanol non methylated product, because you know what happenes when you nethylate a product even if its just the methylation process then changes

for example bold and Dbol same thing, but one is methylated, very different AA ratios.

also how do we know if it was actuall gyno they had, and not just some extra fat that a cycle of epi brought them down on the fat percentage scale making it appear that it was gone.

was iut diagnosed gyno?

does anyone have any blood work from an epi only cycle, from the middle point of the cycle to show that estradiol was indeed lowered instead of word of mouth?

its all hearsay i think
Click to expand...

You beat me to it! lol. Using a steroid to get rid of gyno is just illogical. Ive seen more reports of people getting gyno from epi than it curing it. Needless to say there is no real evidence (bloodwork) that shows epi has any effects on estrogen.
 
Hey everyone, i appreciate everbody chimming in on this.

My Gyno issue is very mild... the tissue is soft and i notice it more when my sodium and fluid intake is off. My nipples are puffy. Im very sensitive! My body fat never goes higher than 8-9% so when mweight fluctuates i see a difference visually.

My last dose of letro was mon aft. (.25mg). Already my libido is coming back. Ive been a lil more moody and emotional though. Yesterday (wed) and today my left nipple hurts a little bit. Very mild in discomfort and and dosent bother me. I can tell estrogen is present though!

So should i jus take Anastrozol or letrozole @ .25mg E3D or wait till i get blood work then start?
 
colorado said:
Hey everyone, i appreciate everbody chimming in on this.

My Gyno issue is very mild... the tissue is soft and i notice it more when my sodium and fluid intake is off. My nipples are puffy. Im very sensitive! My body fat never goes higher than 8-9% so when mweight fluctuates i see a difference visually.

My last dose of letro was mon aft. (.25mg). Already my libido is coming back. Ive been a lil more moody and emotional though. Yesterday (wed) and today my left nipple hurts a little bit. Very mild in discomfort and and dosent bother me. I can tell estrogen is present though!

So should i jus take Anastrozol or letrozole @ .25mg E3D or wait till i get blood work then start?
Click to expand...


take the Adex, and if your very sensitive i dont see a problem with .5mg EOD
 
I switched back to Adex yesterday (thurs). Ive also noticed atrophy again in the boys and unit whereas coming off for these last couple days was restoring size of EVERYTHING... anything else underlying here?
 
colorado said:
I switched back to Adex yesterday (thurs). Ive also noticed atrophy again in the boys and unit whereas coming off for these last couple days was restoring size of EVERYTHING... anything else underlying here?
Click to expand...

hmm, are your doing adex EOD?

i duno what can be causing the atrophy othere then your on HRT.

but you wont see shrinkage in your "unit". just your nuts.
 
i just started the adex yesterday .25mg so i havent been able to start and EOD yet. Im wondering if my body is still trying to clear the letro because Mon was my last dose of .25mg. I might of taken a lil bit when i swapped my dosed dropper from the letro to the adex bottlew too...
 
colorado said:
i just started the adex yesterday .25mg so i havent been able to start and EOD yet. Im wondering if my body is still trying to clear the letro because Mon was my last dose of .25mg. I might of taken a lil bit when i swapped my dosed dropper from the letro to the adex bottlew too...
Click to expand...


rinse out your dropper, but i dont think that woulda made that much of a difference.

it may still be trying to clear the letro, but letro takes about 60 days to have a steady blood concentration.

i woulda waited a week until i started the Adex, unless sensitivity in the nips occured sooner,
 
Ive been doing the adex .5mg E3D and ive noticed that my erections at night are gone.. could the dosage of adex be blocking too much estrogen? the .25 of adex still gave me the errections at night..
 
colorado said:
i just started the adex yesterday .25mg so i havent been able to start and EOD yet. Im wondering if my body is still trying to clear the letro because Mon was my last dose of .25mg. I might of taken a lil bit when i swapped my dosed dropper from the letro to the adex bottlew too...
Click to expand...


soo what exactly are you takingnow and the doses?
 
Cypionate 120mg on wed and 120mg on sun.

Arimidex .5mg E3D

I started the Adex at the lower dose .25mg and my nipple sensitivity subsided. I then did my second dose (sun) of .5mg. Still have ZERO sensitivity. Ive noticed that my erections at night were less with the higher dose versus the lower dose. Does this have to do with the increase in my AI?

Thanks for staying with me on this crazyfool!
 
Well ive got my dosing @ .3mg E3D and seems to keep negative sides down and nightly erections somewhat consistant.
 
glad its working for you...

you can try dosing it the night after each shot only see how that works for you.

are you able to get another erection after orgasm? or is that near impossible?
 
I was going to ask if it would be ok to just take the adex on injection days or the days afterwards.... As for getting errections afterwards... sometimes but not often, prettty rare actually. any other thoughts?
 
colorado said:
what are those and the significance of them?
Click to expand...
dopamine antagonist

will help with the time it takes for you to achieve an erection after orgasm, as well as lower any possible prolactin sides that are there that may not be apparent, add chaste berry as well, this should help really well
 
Could cabergoline work as well? I have some of that on hand and have used it at 500mcg E3D before. Im also do for lab work on tuesday and dont want to offset any lab work with my current regimen. My next inject will be sunday so im waiting 48hrs after my last injection to do my blood work with the doc. should i also do the adex the day after my injects like you had suggested?
 
colorado said:
Could cabergoline work as well? I have some of that on hand and have used it at 500mcg E3D before. Im also do for lab work on tuesday and dont want to offset any lab work with my current regimen. My next inject will be sunday so im waiting 48hrs after my last injection to do my blood work with the doc. should i also do the adex the day after my injects like you had suggested?
Click to expand...


that works.... .5 mg E3D
 
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