TRT and Fertility

[888]

Just saw this forum and hoping for some advice form you guys, here's my situation:

I'm currently almost 34 years old, got hormone levels tested back in 2005, test, LH, FSH were all below low end of range, had MRI etc no problems found. Never had done prohormones or AAS before. Sperm count was excellent. Knowing all this I did a small 8 week Testosterone only cycle followed by PCT, since I was already messed up to an extent I didn't worry about it.

Kind of let this all go, didn't work out for a few years had some other health issues. Started working out again and am healthy this year. Got levels checked again a few months ago, same story, test, LH, FSH all below low end of range. Sperm count still excellent

So here is my problem...I am engaged and we will want to have kids in 3-4 years max. I went to an endocrinologist and he said he would give me a small amount of Test to get my levels into at least the low normal range and it shouldn't hurt my sperm too much, or at least not irreversibly.

I went yesterday to get a 2nd opinion from a urologist who is also the Director of the Center for Male Reproductive Medicine at a large University/Hospital. He said that because my LH and FSH are not so low as to be barely undetectable (they are just below the low end of normal), he said he has found that people at those levels such as mine respond very well to Clomid and wants me to go on 50mg clomid/day and see him in 2 months to repeat my tests.

He says that because my sperm currently looks great he does not want to risk supplementing exogenous testosterone because he says that though my levels are low I am NOT fully shut down and there is no reason to risk that.

He agreed that Clomid is not a viable long term treatment but he wants to try it.

I don't undertand why I wouldn't try HCG instead at a very low dose every day or every other day.

Clomid will block some Estradiol so it will still not be a normal hormonal environment for my body while HCG at low dose ought to just turn the volume up a little on everything I think?

I am worried about osteoporosis and reduced bone mass and other problems associated with low Test (and my Test has now been low for at least 4 years) and obviously want to have better gains at the gym and feel more energetic, but is he right to be cautious with this? He said if I had already fathered children, it would be a whole different ballgame but I know he sees people all day who can't have kids and are desperately trying everything so his perspective must be skewed that way rather than being sympathetic to me living and feeling right, being in a better mood, better libido, etc>

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

 

[darkblue1]

Dont go for T-shots, As the doctor said try CLomid. My wife became pregnant when my levels was too low (LH = 0.6)
What are your Total T and LH,FSH levels

 

[jon671]

I was under the impression FSH is responsible for sperm production. So if your FSH is bellow the normal range how is it your count is good? How is motility and that stuff? Like Blue said stay away from the shots. Ask about HCG sounds like you are secondary.

 

[888]

I don't have my semen analysis in front of me but the doc said it looked perfect, I'll have a fax of it soon

Here's my levels and ranges:

LH 1.5 (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.2 (1.6-8)
Total Test 158 (260-1000)
Free Test 19.7 (50-210)

Anyone think I should start with half the dose of Clomid I was prescribed - 25mg/day instead of 50?

Does it matter what time of day the clomid is taken, and if I take 50mg, should I split the pill into 2 and take separately?

 

[jon671]

I don't have my semen analysis in front of me but the doc said it looked perfect, I'll have a fax of it soon

Here's my levels and ranges:

LH 1.5 (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.2 (1.6-8)
Total Test 158 (260-1000)
Free Test 19.7 (50-210)

No need to post the fax bro just curious about what I said. And also your Urologist sounds like he knows more. I would trust him, but that is just me.

Good Luck

 

[Steveoph]

I don't have my semen analysis in front of me but the doc said it looked perfect, I'll have a fax of it soon

Here's my levels and ranges:

LH 1.5 (1.5-9.3)
FSH 1.2 (1.6-8)
Total Test 158 (260-1000)
Free Test 19.7 (50-210)

Anyone think I should start with half the dose of Clomid I was prescribed - 25mg/day instead of 50?

Does it matter what time of day the clomid is taken, and if I take 50mg, should I split the pill into 2 and take separately?

Half-life is 5-7 days, so it shouldn't make much of a difference from what I know. I would do with what the doc prescribed, talk to him before lowering it. You might not be fertile right now b/c you need a certain concentration of sperm/mL semen. Asking you doc is the best way, if he's a good one.

Try the clomid to see if you're 2ndary, then ask about hCG.

 

[888]

Thanks I have started the clomid today is the 3rd day, haven't noticed any effect yet.

I have read back through this board and done some research which makes me feel better that I am doing either the right thing, or one of the 2 best options, the other being HCG monotherapy which if I am truly secondary as it appears then I can always begin a few months down the line.

The semen analysis was complete so I am assuming I am fertile both in terms of sperm quantity and quality or I would have been told different.

Anybody with low Test that used clomid and it worked how long until you can actually feel the effects? I'm assuming it will be faster than cypionate?

 

[darkblue1]

Thanks I have started the clomid today is the 3rd day, haven't noticed any effect yet.

I have read back through this board and done some research which makes me feel better that I am doing either the right thing, or one of the 2 best options, the other being HCG monotherapy which if I am truly secondary as it appears then I can always begin a few months down the line.

The semen analysis was complete so I am assuming I am fertile both in terms of sperm quantity and quality or I would have been told different.

Anybody with low Test that used clomid and it worked how long until you can actually feel the effects? I'm assuming it will be faster than cypionate?

what kind of effects you are expecting from clomid. raising total T???

 

[888]

what kind of effects you are expecting from clomid. raising total T???

Raising LH, FSH, Total and Free T. Don't really know what to expect, even 100% rise from where it is now won't be much but hoping for the best. Most imprtantly I would like to just feel better and not be run down most of the time, low sex drive, etc.

 

[darkblue1]

Raising LH, FSH, Total and Free T. Don't really know what to expect, even 100% rise from where it is now won't be much but hoping for the best. Most imprtantly I would like to just feel better and not be run down most of the time, low sex drive, etc.

How is yur muscle strength and volume. Did you lose muscle mass or weight during these 4 years?

 

[888]

How is yur muscle strength and volume. Did you lose muscle mass or weight during these 4 years?

I did lose muscle mass/weight because I wasn't lifting or eating much.

However, I started lifting and got my diet right this year and have actually made strength and size gains in the gym faster than when I was 23, but I attribute this to muscle memory and knowing much more now than I did back then about how to eat right and eat enough to grow.

I can only imagine how well I'd be doing if my hormone levels were closer to normal.

So far on day 6 of the clomid and haven't noticed anything yet, bad or good, probably too soon though.

 

[darkblue1]

I did lose muscle mass/weight because I wasn't lifting or eating much.

However, I started lifting and got my diet right this year and have actually made strength and size gains in the gym faster than when I was 23, but I attribute this to muscle memory and knowing much more now than I did back then about how to eat right and eat enough to grow.

I can only imagine how well I'd be doing if my hormone levels were closer to normal.

So far on day 6 of the clomid and haven't noticed anything yet, bad or good, probably too soon though.

At total Test 158, you made good gains with weight/muscle. Thats good news.

 

[888]

At total Test 158, you made good gains with weight/muscle. Thats good news.

Yes, depends how you look at it. Although most young women who I assume have even lower Test than mine -- if they lifted weights and ate 6-8 meals/day like I do they would also gain weight/muscle at a good pace.