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TerribleTowel's Quest For More Mass

thundergod said:
Markus is truly a freakin' beast. One of the strongest mo-fo's out there! Too bad he tore his right pec and retired! That's the dangers of super high-intensity training! I changed my avi to show you my torn right pec! I have the same battle-scar as Markus. My pec is as strong as ever (maybe even stronger) but the cosmetic damage is permanent. It's always gonna have the huge dent in the side and on the top of it!! Oh well... live and learn. I make sure to warm-up very thoroughly, stretch religiously, and perform all exercises perfectly!!
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Injuries suck. I got my strength up to doing Barbell Rows with 405lbs for a solid 6-8 reps. Then one day, during a warm up set of 275lbs (my working sets started at 315), I got a nasty, sharp, sharp pain shoot through my lower back and I couldn't really walk for 3 days. I couldn't bend over to put on socks, I couldn't get out of bed without rolling onto my stomach and crawling off, I couldn't get in and out of my car without taking about 2-3 min to slowing climb in or out using my car door.

To this day I still can't do Deads, Barbell Shrugs, or Rows (obviously), but I am thankful I can walk pain free.
 
Day 11 - August 7, 2008

Shoulders

Seated Barbell Military Press

185 x 10
195 x 10
205 x 9
215 x 7
225 x 5

Laterals

35 x 15
40 x 12
40 x 10
35 x 10

Front Raises

30 x 12
35 x 12
35 x 12
35 x 12

Barbell Shrugs

225 x 15
315 x 12
315 x 8
quit after 8th rep of 3rd set...back was hurting too bad to continue


Post Workout Thoughts

Very good workout until the back pumps set in. But anyways, military press went extremely well. Look at these numbers:

Day 4:

175 x 10
185 x 10
195 x 8
205 x 5

Day 11:

185 x 10
195 x 10
205 x 9
215 x 7
225 x 5

Enough said! The laterals went good as well. Did 40's for the first time ever. By the time I got to barbell shrugs my back was pumped beyond belief. There was no way I could continue. The pain was unbearable. So I'm going to put legs off until Saturday and do arms tomorrow instead.


Weight upon waking: 205 lbs (continues to climb...but what do you expect off a combination of 6,000 calories/day and SD)
 
Great presses on the Military. Your strength is great for 205. Keep it up bro.

I see you've implemented my progressive side by side comparison method. Looks great.
 
VolcomX311 said:
Great presses on the Military. Your strength is great for 205. Keep it up bro.
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Thanks for the kind words Volc. I'm really starting to love the military press for some reason. It's definitely helping to bring out my shoulders too. Nothing adds size better than heavy compound movements in my opinion. You don't build a chest by doing flies...you build a chest by bench pressing. You build legs with squats and leg presses, and you build a back with deads and rows. Same with shoulders. I can tell a big difference in my shoulder development since I've started concentrating on my military presses.

VolcomX311 said:
I see you've implemented my progressive side by side comparison method. Looks great.
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Of course I had to copy your side by side comparison method. No better way of seeing your improvements than to see what you did previously and how much you beat those weights by this time. You just continue to inspire me Volc. Congrats on being able to pull deads again!
 
TerribleTowel said:
Thanks for the kind words Volc. I'm really starting to love the military press for some reason. It's definitely helping to bring out my shoulders too. Nothing adds size better than heavy compound movements in my opinion. You don't build a chest by doing flies...you build a chest by bench pressing. You build legs with squats and leg presses, and you build a back with deads and rows. Same with shoulders. I can tell a big difference in my shoulder development since I've started concentrating on my military presses.



Of course I had to copy your side by side comparison method. No better way of seeing your improvements than to see what you did previously and how much you beat those weights by this time. You just continue to inspire me Volc. Congrats on being able to pull deads again!
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Its all in the family :thumbsup:
 
TT---You're tearing this cycle up bro!! Keep pounding the iron with unfettered fury and determination unbound!! Let loose a primal rage that you've never used before. :aargh: Believe It And Achieve It!! :thumbsup:
 
Day 12 - August 8, 2008

Tri's and Bi's

Close Grip Bench

185 x 12
205 x 10
215 x 10
225 x 8
225 x 8

Skull Crushers + Presses

90 x 12 + 10
90 x 10 + 10
90 x 9 + 10
90 x 8 + 8

Pushdowns

132 x 15
144 x 10
156 x 6 + drop set

Barbell Curls (Wide Grip)

85 x 9
85 x 8
85 x 8
85 x 7

Inclined Dumbbell Curls

30 x 8
30 x 8
30 x 8
30 x 7

Bent Over Isolation Curls

25 x 15
25 x 12
25 x 12

Post Workout Thoughts:

Another very good workout. I'm loving this cycle. My tri's were so pumped by the time I finished pushdowns it was difficult doing bi's, but I worked through it and got another amazing bicep workout in. My biceps were pumped beyond belief by the time I finished. The combination of the wide grip barbell curls and inclined dumbbell curls has brought a whole new aspect into my bicep routine. For the first time in my life have I been able to achieve mind blowing pumps in my biceps. I will continue to train bi's in this manner for a while as I definitely expect to see some nice improvements in that area down the road.

I decided to throw in the isolation curls at the end just to mix things up. The cables were taken and I wanted to do the same exercise I did last week but I didn't feel like waiting so I just grabbed a 25 lb dumbbell and sat down on the edge of a bench and went to town. They put the exclamation point on an already great workout.

Tomorrow will be legs, so we'll see how my back is feeling. If it's hurting then you'll see a lot of leg presses, but as of now the plan is to hit the squats pretty hard.

On a side note; completely irrelevant, but there was a guy there working chest doing sets of 5 on flat bench with 395 with no spot and making it look like it was 135. When I left I spoke to him for a minute and he was curling what looked like 80's or 90's with absolutely perfect form. No swaying. No momentum. Nothing but pure bicep contraction. Absolute beast.


Weight upon waking: 206 lbs
 
Day 13 - August 9, 2008

Legs (Quads)

Front Squats

195 x 12
215 x 12
225 x 11
235 x 8

Leg Press

4 Plates x 20
5 Plates x 20
6 Plates x 20
6 Plates x 18

Post Workout Thoughts

Good workout today. Back was a little sore before I even started but it surprisingly held up through front squats, even without a belt today. My quads were on fire after just a few sets of squats. The weight on the front squats went up some today from last week and I believe I had much better form today. After front squats I went and pumped out some intense high rep sets on the leg press. I had to workout in a different weight room today which sucked because I hate these weight rooms. The leg press felt different as far as the motion goes so I'm not sure if the strength increase on the leg presses can be solely contributed to new muscle growth, or partly due to differences from one machine to the next. By the time I finished the leg presses my back was really starting to tighten up so I decided to call it quits which was ok as far as quads are concerned. Unfortunately I didn't get to do any calves, but I'll hit them at the beginning of next week to make up for it. My ham's get torched doing deads so they got plenty of work this week. Plus my ham's are over-developed compared to my quads so it will give my quad's a chance to catch up.

I'm interested to see how next week is going to go because I'm going to have to work out in a different part of the gym because my usual rooms are going to be closed. To make it easier to understand, there is two separate buildings that make up the gym here at my school. Well since summer school just ended, they are closing down the one building next week and the other is going to be on restricted hours. The part that is going to be open is actually newer, but you can tell it was designed to better accommodate the gym's female users. Probably 100+ pieces of cardio equipment and they just threw in some actual weights where there was room left. The dumbbells only go up to like 60 pounds and there is a lot of equipment they don't have. No decline bench, military press, etc. So I'm going to have to make due the best I can. The only thing that is really going to be a problem might be deads, but **** it. I pay $15,000 dollars a year so I'm going to do whatever I want. They are picky up there about keeping things clean and such so if some body comes and says something to me about having a gym bag with me, and chalking up, and making a racket, I'll tell just have to tell them to **** off. I'm shooting for 5 plates Tuesday!!!


Weight upon waking: 204 lbs (Went out last night. Didn't drink or anything, but I think the combination of being out all night and then sleeping in all day cause the weight drop, as this seems to happen on the weekends a lot of times.)
 
VolcomX311 said:
Damn man, its insane to see your weight moving up & up every other day. Talk about a successful cycle!
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Definitely man. I couldn't be happier with the size I've managed to put on so far. Two weeks in and I'm up 8 or 9 pounds. The combination of SD and 6,000 calories a day is sure to put some size on just about anybody. SD has an amazing partitioning ability too. Consuming that much food I was expecting to put on some fat, but I must say that any fat gain has been minimal. I feel and look just as lean as when I started the cycle. The fact that I've had hardly any sides all cycle is another major plus. Just a few back pumps, but I think they can be just as much attributed to the deadlifts as to the SD. I've got one week left so hopefully things will continue in the same positive manner.

Edit: Most importantly, my libido is still kicking at full force :head:
 
On the leg press are those plates per side or altogether?

Also remember with SD it tends to have a diuretic type effect in some people the first week or two....so it seems like its partitioning well just b/c it'sd drying you out, however you still may be getting fat. Or at least thats been my experience with it. Obviously not saying its true for you of course.

Regardless sounds like the gains are coming on nicely. I think you'll get that 5 plater dead soon. ;)
 
TT--Way to do this thing bro!! SD is the sh*t is it not?!! It's my favorite legal compound. It really works if the person taking it will adhere to taking in extra clean carbs, train harder and longer than when off-cycle, and be sure to get the proper sleep and rest that they need. I'm ecstatic about your weight and strength gains at just 2 weeks in! You should finish off big and strong at the end of this journey. KEEP BLASTIN'!!:head:
 
VolcomX311 said:
6000 kcals a day!?!?! Damn, that's some serious dietary dedication! You're the man.
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Thanks bro. The more and more I learn, it all comes back to food. You can't grow without food, and lots of it. No amount of anabolics will make up for lack of food. You have to eat big to get big. I remember in one of his movies, Jay Cutler mentions consuming upwards of 1000 grams of carbs per day during the offseason.

Once you lay out a diet and stick to it for a week or two eating that much food isn't too hard. Throw in some liquid calories (protein shakes) and it doesn't make you feel like absolute **** all day the way that packing down that much solid food would.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
On the leg press are those plates per side or altogether?
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Plates per side.

Royd The Noyd said:
Also remember with SD it tends to have a diuretic type effect in some people the first week or two....so it seems like its partitioning well just b/c it'sd drying you out, however you still may be getting fat. Or at least thats been my experience with it. Obviously not saying its true for you of course.
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Well thanks for making me feel like a fat ass... :FUfinger:

Just kidding bro, but your probably right about the diuretic effects helping to cover some possible fat gain. I guess I'll know for sure here in a couple weeks. I was prepared for a little fat gain. If I wasn't I wouldn't have been eating anywhere near as many calories over maintenance. Either way it looks like I may be looking at a cut in the near future. Maybe a cut involving either some clen or albuterol right before I jack my calories back up and start my test cycle!

Royd The Noyd said:
Regardless sounds like the gains are coming on nicely. I think you'll get that 5 plater dead soon. ;)
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Hopefully this Tuesday if I'm feeling up to it :thumbsup:
 
thundergod said:
TT--Way to do this thing bro!! SD is the sh*t is it not?!! It's my favorite legal compound. It really works if the person taking it will adhere to taking in extra clean carbs, train harder and longer than when off-cycle, and be sure to get the proper sleep and rest that they need. I'm ecstatic about your weight and strength gains at just 2 weeks in! You should finish off big and strong at the end of this journey. KEEP BLASTIN'!!:head:
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Thanks bro. SD is awesome. The sides have been almost non-existent, except for my shrunken testicles :lol: I think that using the original AX SD was a definite plus. The majority of the horror stories I see are from people have ran one of these cheap clones. I couldn't be happier with the gains I've made so far this cycle and hopefully they'll continue for one more week and hopefully even into PCT.
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Lol, I like to rain on the parade sometimes. I'd agree with thunder SD is a crazy strong OTC oral. I still hate seeing my HDL tanked after using it though.
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Fish Oil and Policosanol brotha. 8g or so of fish oil and 40mg policosanol right before bed. :thumbsup:
 
bassgod272 said:
I'd keep it at 20 just because it's SD, but how are you feeling atm? If lethargy isn't an issue, libido is fine, etc, then do it up. :twisted:
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That's the only reason I'm not sure. I didn't expect things to be going this great. No lethargy. Morning wood everyday. A few back pumps, but I think they are due just as much to heavy deadlifting as they are SD.

The original plan was to stick at 20 mg, but now I'm not sure. The cycle has gone to smoothly thus far that it's making me second guess that decision.:frustrate
 
TerribleTowel said:
That's the only reason I'm not sure. I didn't expect things to be going this great. No lethargy. Morning wood everyday. A few back pumps, but I think they are due just as much to heavy deadlifting as they are SD.

The original plan was to stick at 20 mg, but now I'm not sure. The cycle has gone to smoothly thus far that it's making me second guess that decision.:frustrate
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I just don't want you to ruin a good cycle, but if all is well, then go for it bro. :head:
 
TerribleTowel said:
Ok guys...what are you thinking. Keep it at 20 mg for the last week or bump it on up to 30 mg???
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This is just me, but I would bump it on up to 30 mg. for that last week. You say you're feeling fine, morning wood, everything's good. Go for it. It's just a week. You're taking your supports and ancillaries. Do it!! Get what you can out of it. I agree with something Piston said. He said since you're going to be shutdown no matter what....you might as well take strong enough doses to get the most out of it. You're gonna have to PCT and recover anyway. DO IT!!!!!!:head:
 
Go Big or Big to BB.com, haha, I'm just kidding, bro. I'm all for ballz to the wall as long as you're body feels up for it. I'm all for listening to the body, so let your health status guide your decision.

Looking forward to your next Dead lift numbers :thumbsup:
 
Day 15 - Monday, August 11, 2008

Chest & Tri's

Barbell Bench

225 x 10
265 x 7/8
275 x 5/6
285 x 4

Barbell Incline

185 x 8
205 x 6
225 x 5

Incline Dumbbell Flies

40 x 15
40 x 15
40 x 15

Machine Press

3 sets - last set was a drop set

Skull Crushers (with a straight bar)

80 x 12 + presses til failure
80 x 11 + presses til failure
80 x 10 + presses til failure

Rope Pushdowns

4 sets
last set was a combination of rest pause and drop sets

Post Workout Thoughts:

Pretty good workout. Had to workout in the stupid gym today. Excuse my anger, but I simply hate the place. Nobody there actually lifts with any purpose. Just a few stick figures doing dumbbell curls. Everyone turned and looked when me and my workout partner got to 225 for our last warmup set like it would have been impressive if we could do it once. The benches in this place are tiny. Like you feel like your ass is hanging off the end and at any second your going to roll off either side of the bench. Anyways a pretty good workout. Got a great pump in both my chest and tri's. Went with some different exercises out of necessity so I didn't really worry about keeping track of weights and reps on those exercises because I don't plan on doing them again. I did manage to increase my weights and reps on both flat and incline bench so that was very nice. Tomorrow is deadlift day! I'll probably be the first person in the history of this gym to deadlift but I'll break it in right!
 
Day 16 - Tuesday, August 12, 2008

Back

Deadlift

225 x 8
315 x 8
405 x 8
455 x 4
475 x 3
500 x 1
315 x 12

Pulldowns

4 sets of 10 - 15 reps + drop set on last set

Cable Rows

4 sets of 10 - 15


Post Workout Thoughts

Unbelievable workout!!! 500 on the deadlift and it wasn't even too hard. I had to use these octagon shaped plates which I didn't like because on my multi-rep sets when I bring the weight back down to "lightly touch" the ground, sometimes the weights don't hit evenly and it's rough to keep the body moving perfectly straight up and down. It only really affected me on the 455 set where I believe I could have gotten 5 reps if it hadn't thrown my balance off, but anyways I am beyond satisfied with this workout.

I blew through the 405 set for 8 easy reps so I knew it was going to be a good day. 455 went pretty easy except the one bad touch, but the 4 reps were still easy. After the 455 set I couldn't decide if I wanted to go straight to 5 plates or do 475 instead. I decided to go with 475 and try to pull some reps with that. When I got 3 reps I immediately went and grabbed another plate and decided to throw on a 2.5 just to round it off to an even 500. So after a couple minutes I chalked up, got in the zone, grabbed the bar, and blasted out a rep. It kind stuck about 85% up, but I quickly blew through that sticking point to lock the rep out. I've never been more in the zone than those last couple sets.

After deads I went on over and pumped out a few sets of pulldowns followed by some cable rows. Just like yesterday, I didn't really worry about keeping track of my weights because I won't be back in this gym again anytime soon, so I won't be using these same machines. My back felt surprisingly good throughout this workout. I stretched it between every single set of deads, plus loading up with a large amount of taurine preworkout.


Weight upon waking: 206 lbs (hmm...weight gains have ceased...)
 
500lbs! Sweet! I know I have to take it easy for awhile, so I won't be going over 405 any time soon, but man, congrats on your progressive, weekly strength increases. Your Dead lift is officially legit! Good job man, you're pulling exactly 2.4 times your body weight, solid feat of strength, bud.

Since the 500lbs seemed "easy," maybe you'll be joining the 5 and a Quarter club soon. I'm not even a member of that club yet.
 
VolcomX311 said:
500lbs! Sweet! I know I have to take it easy for awhile, so I won't be going over 405 any time soon, but man, congrats on your progressive, weekly strength increases. Your Dead lift is officially legit! Good job man, you're pulling exactly 2.4 times your body weight, solid feat of strength, bud.

Since the 500lbs seemed "easy," maybe you'll be joining the 5 and a Quarter club soon. I'm not even a member of that club yet.
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I wouldn't say "easy", but I feel 510 or 515 would maybe have been possible. It went smoothly though, no jerking or anything. Thanks for the kind words bro, and hang in there buddy. You don't want to overdue it with your back to quick, but I have no doubt you'll be back to pulling 5 plates in no time. Hopefully I'll be able to reach 5 and a quarter within the next month or two. A lot of it will depend on how smoothly my PCT runs, but I feel pretty confident that I won't experience any problems along those lines.

Check out these comparisons from last week to this week (comparison made possible using Volcom's patented side by side comparison method :lol:)

Day 9

225 x 8
315 x 8
405 x 8
435 x 5
455 x 2
315 x 10


Day 16

225 x 8
315 x 8
405 x 8
455 x 4
475 x 3
500 x 1
315 x 12
 
Damn son 500 deads is something serious! Proud of you on that one:dl: If you haven't made up your mind yet i say go for the 30mgs in the last week. You seem to be doing great with the sd so why not its just a week. Hope that helps! Keep going strong!
 
Congrats TT on the big five-O!! Hell yeah. I remember the elation I felt when I finally pulled 610 on the DL. It was the greatest feeling ever. I could feel the pressure going up through my throat. It's still so vivid!! Go treat yourself to a tasty treat meal bro!! :food: Party!! :djparty:
 
hman85 said:
Damn son 500 deads is something serious! Proud of you on that one:dl: If you haven't made up your mind yet i say go for the 30mgs in the last week. You seem to be doing great with the sd so why not its just a week. Hope that helps! Keep going strong!
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Thanks bro. Yea I was absolutely stoked when I pulled it. I have decided to go with 30 mg for this last week. I didn't yesterday, but I'm going to go with 30 mg for these last six days as everything has run smoothly so far. Thanks for the advice bro and good to have you here.
 
thundergod said:
Congrats TT on the big five-O!! Hell yeah. I remember the elation I felt when I finally pulled 610 on the DL. It was the greatest feeling ever. I could feel the pressure going up through my throat. It's still so vivid!! Go treat yourself to a tasty treat meal bro!! :food: Party!! :djparty:
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Oh yes it was an awesome feeling brother. My face was bright red. There were veins sticking out everywhere. The bar had pulled my shorts up so my quads were bulging. It was awesome. My back is pumped beyond belief. The pump in my traps is so intense that I can't really turn my head around.
 
TerribleTowel said:
Oh yes it was an awesome feeling brother. My face was bright red. There were veins sticking out everywhere. The bar had pulled my shorts up so my quads were bulging. It was awesome. My back is pumped beyond belief. The pump in my traps is so intense that I can't really turn my head around.
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Thats when you know you've worked.

I think I read a bodybuilding quote somewhere that went something like, "pain is the ultimate reward for all the pain we go through in the gym" or something along those lines. I love DOMS.
 
VolcomX311 said:
Thats when you know you've worked.

I think I read a bodybuilding quote somewhere that went something like, "pain is the ultimate reward for all the pain we go through in the gym" or something along those lines. I love DOMS.
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Yes sir, so do I! I love me some dome...I mean DOMS :lol:

I love that quote by the way :thumbsup:
 
Day 17 - August 13, 2008

Biceps

Barbell Curl

45 x 20
65 x 15
75 x 15
85 x 10
85 x 10
85 x 9
75 x 10
65 x 10
45 x 20

Post Workout Thoughts:

Did a little bit of biceps today at the apartment. Didn't really have time to get by the gym as it was a busy day. I was limited with what I had to work with so I decided to just blast away with the barbell curls, once again utilizing the wide grip. Got a sick pump and I'd say it was a successful workout even if it wasn't ideal.


Weight upon waking: 205.5 lbs (weights gains have stopped)
 
On a completely unrelated note...I finally got a chance to see the new Batman movie tonight. I must say that it was absolutely amazing. Definitely one of the best movies I've seen in years. If anyone hasn't seen it you must go see it immediately!

For anyone who has seen it...the scene with the pencil was completely badass.
 
TerribleTowel said:
On a completely unrelated note...I finally got a chance to see the new Batman movie tonight. I must say that it was absolutely amazing. Definitely one of the best movies I've seen in years. If anyone hasn't seen it you must go see it immediately!

For anyone who has seen it...the scene with the pencil was completely badass.
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In the middle of the movie I thought to myself, "if this movie could have made a sequel, it would have been one of the biggest movies EVER." Joker was outstanding.
 
Day 18 - August 14, 2008

Shoulders

Seated Barbell Military Press

195 x 12
205 x 10
215 x 8
225 x 6

Laterals

30 x 15
35 x 12
40 x 10
40 x 9

Front Raises

30 x 12
35 x 10
40 x 10
40 x 8

Shrugs (One plate per hand)

3 sets til failure

Post Workout Thoughts

A solid workout. Managed to improve on most of my exercises again today, but I will definitely say that most of the gains from SD seem to come in the first two weeks. I haven't put on hardly any weight in the last couple days and the strength gains (with the exception of deads) haven't been as pronounced as they were before. I do however feel as though I have actually started leaning out these last few days as my abs are a lot more visible than they were at the start of this cycle, plus I am definitely more vascular than I was before.
 
Tomorrow will most likely be my last workout of this cycle as my gym is going to be closed this weekend. Gay school gym rules or something. Something about it being the end of summer school semester. I'm not sure how well my back will hold up for squats tomorrow, so I may not even try them tomorrow. I may just go straight to the leg press tomorrow. My back is still really sore from the heavy deads Tuesday. Not in a bad way, just general muscle soreness. Anyways, tomorrow will be the final workout, and PCT will start Monday. I'll be throwing up my plans for PCT later on today just to see what everyone thinks.
 
Friday - August 15, 2008

Legs

Leg Press

5 Plates x 15
6 Plates x 15
7 Plates x 14
7 Plates x 12
7 Plates x 9

Leg Extensions

170 x 20
190 x 15
190 x 12 + drop set til failure w/ 90

Calf Raises On Leg Press

6 or 7 sets til failure with 3 Plates

Leg Press

3 Plates x 50 (rest pause)

Post Workout Thoughts

I didn't even try to squat today as my back still hasn't fully recovered from the heavy deads on Tuesday so I decided to begin with leg presses. I did a few warmup sets and then proceeded to hit the quads hard. However, even leg press was stressful on my lower back and after my third set with 7 plates, my back was aching. I took a short break to stretch and then proceeded to finish blasting my quads and calves. Good overall workout and this will be my last workout on this cycle. I'll post up my plans for PCT in just a minute. I'll continue dosing SD throughout the weekend and begin PCT on Monday, unless someone has some different opinions on the matter.
 
PCT Plans

Tamoxifen Citrate: 40/40/20/20
Post Cycle Support
Creatine - Will begin with Neovar (have a free sample) and will finish with creatine mono
AP
BCAA
DHEA
Vitamin C (megadosed)
Poseidon
Random assortment of samples I have aquired


Questions For You Guys (Especially ThunderGod)

How do you dose DHEA during PCT?
 
TerribleTowel said:
Tamoxifen Citrate: 40/40/20/20
Random assortment of samples I have aquired
Questions For You Guys (Especially ThunderGod)
How do you dose DHEA during PCT?
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First of all, I've been doing a lot of reading lately on Tamox and I think you'd be fine dosing it at 20/20/10/10/. I believe people are using more than what is necessary and it IS liver toxic after all. Secondly, where in the hell did you get all of those samples??!! :think: I would love to find me some samples of pre-workout sh*t to shop through. Thirdly, I dose DHEA at 200 mg. for week 1. 150 mg. for week 2. And then taper on down to 100 mg. for the last 2 weeks of PCT. Take the whole dose in the morning at one time. Good luck with PCT bro. I'm sure it will be a breeze!! :thumbsup:
 
thundergod said:
First of all, I've been doing a lot of reading lately on Tamox and I think you'd be fine dosing it at 20/20/10/10/. I believe people are using more than what is necessary and it IS liver toxic after all. Secondly, where in the hell did you get all of those samples??!! :think: I would love to find me some samples of pre-workout sh*t to shop through. Thirdly, I dose DHEA at 200 mg. for week 1. 150 mg. for week 2. And then taper on down to 100 mg. for the last 2 weeks of PCT. Take the whole dose in the morning at one time. Good luck with PCT bro. I'm sure it will be a breeze!! :thumbsup:
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I've seen a lot of that research as well and I've considered running the tamox at a lower dosage, but since 15.2mg of tamoxifen citrate is equivalent to 10mg of tamoxifen, and most of the research I've seen is done using regular tamoxifen, then a dosing of 40 mg of citrate isn't too much overkill, as 40 mg of tamoxifen citrate is equivalent to 26.3 mg of tamoxifen, so it isn't too much overkill.

Thanks for the info on DHEA. I found some stuff by Dr. D and he suggested almost the exact same dosing. Thanks bro!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thundergod again.
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TerribleTowel said:
I've seen a lot of that research as well and I've considered running the tamox at a lower dosage, but since 15.2mg of tamoxifen citrate is equivalent to 10mg of tamoxifen, and most of the research I've seen is done using regular tamoxifen, then a dosing of 40 mg of citrate isn't too much overkill, as 40 mg of tamoxifen citrate is equivalent to 26.3 mg of tamoxifen, so it isn't too much overkill.

Thanks for the info on DHEA. I found some stuff by Dr. D and he suggested almost the exact same dosing. Thanks bro!
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Tamoxifen IS tamoxifen citrate. Tamox Citrate is the ONLY form used in the medical field. I can only order tamoxifen citrate in my pharmacy. When you see Tamoxifen, it is as tamoxifen citrate. Just like when you hear or read about clomid. Clomid IS Clomiphene Citrate, however they just call it Clomid, not Clomid Citrate. ALL tamox prescription medication and research chems are labeled as tamoxifen citrate. The strength difference is accounted for. So when it says 20mg tamox citrate per tab, that means 20mg tamox per tab.
 
bassgod272 said:
Tamoxifen IS tamoxifen citrate. Tamox Citrate is the ONLY form used in the medical field. I can only order tamoxifen citrate in my pharmacy. When you see Tamoxifen, it is as tamoxifen citrate. Just like when you hear or read about clomid. Clomid IS Clomiphene Citrate, however they just call it Clomid, not Clomid Citrate. ALL tamox prescription medication and research chems are labeled as tamoxifen citrate. The strength difference is accounted for. So when it says 20mg tamox citrate per tab, that means 20mg tamox per tab.
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I understand your point and I believe it's valid, but when your measuring out liquid research chems, is the argument still the same? If you have 10 mg of tamox citrate per ml, is that the same as 10 mg of tamox per ml?

Please understand bro, I'm not arguing with you....just trying to broaden my knowledge and hopefully others as well.
 
TerribleTowel said:
I understand your point and I believe it's valid, but when your measuring out liquid research chems, is the argument still the same? If you have 10 mg of tamox citrate per ml, is that the same as 10 mg of tamox per ml?

Please understand bro, I'm not arguing with you....just trying to broaden my knowledge and hopefully others as well.
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Haha, no worries bro. I have just seen this question arise sooooo many times on multiple boards. Yea, 10mg of tamox citrate per mL is = to 10mg tamox per mL. As long as you're using a reputable source, then yes. If you're using some UG Lab that's not known by many and runs a small business, then I cannot say for sure. All of the larger, more popular companies though, do take the conversion ratio into consideration when compounding their chemicals. :thumbsup: I can't name names, but i'm sure you know many of the ones that I am speaking of.
 
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