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POST Workout Supplementation

DaveGabe24 said:
it's possible...but there would be really no way to justify it. What would be your reasoning over other protein sources?

Save the mega dosing for cuts, imo
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I wasn't really thinking of using them in place of other protein, but if you would put say 50g's in a gallon of water and sip throughout the day, why not 150g's.
 
CHAPS said:
Pre:

1 Anabolic Pump or P-slin (before pre-workout meal)
Beta Alanine 2g's
1 scoop ragnarok
600mg Icarian

Intra:

6-8 scoops Xtend

Post:

P-slin or Ap
80g's Waxy Maize
60g's Whey Isolate
2g's Beta-alanine


I don't use Icarian all the time but i capped a ton of it and it really adds to the pumps, also capped the beta-alanine which i LOVE.
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Beta-Alanine has been a savior for me. I had severe endurance problems when I first started back in the gym, and Purple Wraath + bulk BA did things I would not believe had I read it on a forum, lol. I was immediately addicted to supplementation.

What isolates are you using may I ask? I love Isopure, but cost has put me back with ON 100% Whey for now.
 
lkjh said:
I wasn't really thinking of using them in place of other protein, but if you would put say 50g's in a gallon of water and sip throughout the day, why not 150g's.
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Well hell, why not 500g??

The BB mentality - more is better, right? I wouldn't theorize in this case the law of diminishing returns.. but there comes a point in which the body becomes saturated. You might as well pour half that jug in the toilet.
 
I recently became a big reader of Venom's stuff. In this article of "practical applications" he suggests the following. Keep in mind there is much much more in this article then the below cut/paste:

Post workout Shake Supplementation Summary

Follow these supplement guidelines post exercise. We’ve divided up the supplements in two categories; absolutely vital and vital. While taking all of these supplements post-workout is optimal, we understand that not all athletes can afford such expenses. If this is your situation, we recommend the following:

Absolutely vital:

* A 92% water solution mixed with sodium
* 5 grams of carbohydrates per every 10 pounds of lean body bodyweight on a bulk and 2.5 grams of carbohydrates per every 10 pounds of lean bodyweight on a cut. Your carbohydrates must come from a 50/50 combination of Dextrose and Maltodextrin
* .22 grams of protein per pound of body weight or 0.48 grams of whey protein per kg of bodyweight. Your protein must come from Whey Protein and the solution needs to be tapered over 45-60 minutes.

Vital (Supplements rank ordered):

* 5-10 grams of creatine



* 5-10 grams of glutamine



* A multi-anti-oxidant formula



* 1 gram or more of HMB



* 200-400 mcg of chromium
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HMB.. now there's some controversial stuff. Never proven work, to my knowledge, except in Beverly's Muscle Synergy. And that has to be taken on an empty stomach..
 
snagency said:
Well hell, why not 500g??

The BB mentality - more is better, right? I wouldn't theorize in this case the law of diminishing returns.. but there comes a point in which the body becomes saturated. You might as well pour half that jug in the toilet.
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Thank you.
 
snagency said:
HMB.. now there's some controversial stuff. Never proven work, to my knowledge, except in Beverly's Muscle Synergy. And that has to be taken on an empty stomach..
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I actually thought the same thing however after reading some of the following I think it could be beneficial in higher doses (6gram range). This was Venom's comment and an article he was involved in:

if HMB is to be effective, you are likely going to have to cause significant muscle damage. Trained athletes are much more resistant to muscle damage. And several of the studies we examined implemented little to no variation in their programs. So we propose that chronic periodized training programs are needed with trained athletes. And its never been tested when combining catabolic stimuli such as weight training, dieting, and cardio as bodybuilders do pre-contest.

It also may be useful in clinical domains such as cancer, aids, etc.
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And this is a great read:

Invalid Link Removed
 
Quote:
if HMB is to be effective, you are likely going to have to cause significant muscle damage.
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LOL, this quote reminded of that stuff that came out a few years back, Endothil CR or something like that, some tomato extract that purported to reverse AIDS patients' muscle wasting, and would work on BB as long as they trained a single muscle group into the ground..

Even in that link they refer to conflicting reports on HMB. If there is something to it (leucine metabolite sounds good, doesn't it?), it still looks like it needs to be administered on empty stomach.. much like BCAA for maximum absorption..
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Lets talk about electrolytes (sodium). Is anyone adding sodium to their pwo shake? A typical whey scoop is no more then 50-100mg's.
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This is a great question and one close to me atm. While drinking 1-2 gallons of water a day, and playing tennis about 3 times a week (I'm f'ing sick of gym cardio right now), my body is pouring water like I've never experienced. And I'm soaking through my towels while lifting (a new problem for me, but I've attributed it to Recreate's thermo until I cycled off last week) I've been researching Poseidon as a potential electrolyte solution... Or maybe just some sport electrolyte powders from good ol' Wal Mart.
 
Royd this thread can go in so many directions lol. I think I'll just start another one on leucine since it has so much potential. I've been supplementing with it for a while and feel it fits in well with my nutrition, but I recall (I believe Layne Norton) in a conference back in the spring bring up something about stimulating the mTOR , and how it can be only activated every 6 hours thus he was in favour of large meals 6 hours apart which really goes against the grain. Anyways I'll save that for a different thread lol, I'm rambling. I have the link to his thoughts, PM me for it or just google Layne Norton 2008 International Society Sport Nutrition +Leucine

Now back to say electrolytes? :) I'm on my 3rd day of using Swell, so it's a bit early to draw any conclusions but my two HIIT sessions yesterday and today went better than normal.
 
SokVichet said:
This is a great question and one close to me atm. While drinking 1-2 gallons of water a day, and playing tennis about 3 times a week (I'm f'ing sick of gym cardio right now), my body is pouring water like I've never experienced. And I'm soaking through my towels while lifting (a new problem for me, but I've attributed it to Recreate's thermo until I cycled off last week) I've been researching Poseidon as a potential electrolyte solution... Or maybe just some sport electrolyte powders from good ol' Wal Mart.
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Can't go wrong with the Poseidon man..
 
snagency said:
Poseidon for my pre/intra shake, not PWO tho..

6 scoops total thru day (2 in aforementioned shake).
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Poseidon is definitely a great tool for achieving rehydration. So its something I would consider a must in pre/peri/post nutrtion (of course varies on degree of intesity, volume, length, etc.).

But whats the purpose of PRO, CHO, FAT pwo supplementation if your not hydrated.
 
Steveoph said:
Royd this thread can go in so many directions lol. I think I'll just start another one on leucine since it has so much potential. I've been supplementing with it for a while and feel it fits in well with my nutrition, but I recall (I believe Layne Norton) in a conference back in the spring bring up something about stimulating the mTOR , and how it can be only activated every 6 hours thus he was in favour of large meals 6 hours apart which really goes against the grain. Anyways I'll save that for a different thread lol, I'm rambling. I have the link to his thoughts, PM me for it or just google Layne Norton 2008 International Society Sport Nutrition +Leucine

Now back to say electrolytes? :) I'm on my 3rd day of using Swell, so it's a bit early to draw any conclusions but my two HIIT sessions yesterday and today went better than normal.
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Yes the mTOR activation talk I believe started with this study:

Invalid Link Removed

But I've never seen anything in relation to the 6 hour timeframe (havent looked either). Interesting though.

I saw your Swell log, I'll be watching. ;)
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Poseidon is definitely a great tool for achieving rehydration. So its something I would consider a must in pre/peri/post nutrtion (of course varies on degree of intesity, volume, length, etc.).

But whats the purpose of PRO, CHO, FAT pwo supplementation if your not hydrated.
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Most certainly would be useful in PWO window as well.
 
Poseidon FTW!!!!!!!!!

That is all carry on :)
 
DaveGabe24 said:
Speaking of Poseidon.....:D
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Haha, good call :)

Ok, you've convinced me. Got some Blast (zomg sale!) and poseidon in tonight's order. I haven't used a pre-workout stimulant since my n00b purchase of NO Xplode oh so long ago (Anal Xplode is more like it... half a tub sitting in the kitchen, ugh), so I'm excited about Core Zap and Blast.

LoL, my cart right now is like the who's who of the AM-loved companies (and could pass as the 'SALE' listing should NP lose theirs, haha). I'm in a phase where I am just really excited about a lot of products and am just experimenting a bit more than usual. Man, I'm out of control...

Zap (Core)
REDuction (Controlled Labs)
Blast (Nimbus)
Poseidon (Nimbus)
Ragnarok (MST) third lovely tub
100% Gold Standard Whey (ON) second choice to Isopure, but I've spent enough already lol
Various bulk supplies (Nutraplanet and PrimaForce ftw)

I know there are quite a few companies who I have not patronized in there, but trust me... I have something of yours! I totally understand how you guys end up with your stashes, and these sales are the end of my Just-In-Time inventory, ahah.

Bolt (Nimbus), I remember there being a "free clumpy poseidon" with two Nimbus purchases promo a while back, you guys still doing that with NP? I finally qualify with this order ><

Hijack complete.
 
SokVichet said:
Beta-Alanine has been a savior for me. I had severe endurance problems when I first started back in the gym, and Purple Wraath + bulk BA did things I would not believe had I read it on a forum, lol. I was immediately addicted to supplementation.

What isolates are you using may I ask? I love Isopure, but cost has put me back with ON 100% Whey for now.
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Yes ion exchange whey isolate.
 
snagency said:
I like Icarin..

Haven't seen ya for awhile man, thanx for posting. Question for you: what's your reasoning for using 2g BA on both sides of the workout?

Sidebar: Wasn't that you who was using AP prior to bed on an empty stomach awhile back? If so, still doing it?
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I use BA before for the lactic acid buffering etc and post-workout to shuttle more into my muscles so i'm super saturated with BA. I remember reading that it takes a full 12 weeks to fully saturate your body with BA and you can use up to 10g's a day, that is actually what Charles Poliquin suggests. And i think i did AP before bed for a bit it aided in sleep and i woke up starving but i'm no longer doing so, i didn't really notice difference physique wise form dosing before bed.
 
dblakester said:
Really? But is it worth the money with all the stuff out there that is so much cheaper?
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I actually got it from a guy whose supplement shop closed down. He had a couple thousand dollars worth of stuff and wanted to get rid of it quick. So I offered him $200 dollars and got it all. The ad was on craigslist. I literally had the back of a Hummer H3 filled with supplements when I left his house. So.... I didn't really have to pay full price for the Anator.... I acually have 3 tubs of it haha...

Trust me, I would NEVER go out of my way to purchase MuscleTechs products with my own hard earned money.
 
dblakester said:
Really? But is it worth the money with all the stuff out there that is so much cheaper?
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Hmmm.. Phenylalanine, Leucine, creatine, malto/dex and whey.. yours for the low, low price of $55 for 16 servings.. And, according to research, this stuff changes your genetics! :rolleyes:

Sorry, couldn't resist.
 
snagency said:
How do sun dried monkey balls taste?
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Alot like sundried camel balls.... wait you haven't tried those either?!

SokVichet said:
Haha, good call :)

Ok, you've convinced me. Got some Blast (zomg sale!) and poseidon in tonight's order. I haven't used a pre-workout stimulant since my n00b purchase of NO Xplode oh so long ago (Anal Xplode is more like it... half a tub sitting in the kitchen, ugh), so I'm excited about Core Zap and Blast.

LoL, my cart right now is like the who's who of the AM-loved companies (and could pass as the 'SALE' listing should NP lose theirs, haha). I'm in a phase where I am just really excited about a lot of products and am just experimenting a bit more than usual. Man, I'm out of control...

Zap (Core)
REDuction (Controlled Labs)
Blast (Nimbus)
Poseidon (Nimbus)
Ragnarok (MST) third lovely tub
100% Gold Standard Whey (ON) second choice to Isopure, but I've spent enough already lol
Various bulk supplies (Nutraplanet and PrimaForce ftw)

I know there are quite a few companies who I have not patronized in there, but trust me... I have something of yours! I totally understand how you guys end up with your stashes, and these sales are the end of my Just-In-Time inventory, ahah.

Bolt (Nimbus), I remember there being a "free clumpy poseidon" with two Nimbus purchases promo a while back, you guys still doing that with NP? I finally qualify with this order ><

Hijack complete.
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The buy 2 get a clumpy poseidon is over, we cleared out that clumpy batch before too long. I also picked up a blast, but I'm working through 2 tubs of JP8 right now, although it's giving me some stomach discomfort.

ZAP looks interesting, might pick it up on my next order but I've got alot of pre-WO stuff and I'm not the biggest fan of the caffeine found in pre-WO supps. Makes me go to the washroom too often, and it messes with my sleep despite having morning workouts.
 
Steveoph said:
The buy 2 get a clumpy poseidon is over, we cleared out that clumpy batch before too long.
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Yea the clumpiness deal is gone :sad:
 
DaveGabe24 said:
...if I could neg you....I would :trout::aargh:
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HA! :lol:

On a side note, I totally understand proprietary blends/matrixes, but I really wish more supp companies would label the quantity of the more key ingredients like AEN does. It's difficult to manage my bulk supplies with proprietary formulas if it isn't done this way.

Take the for example. The Leucine and Beta-Alanine amounts are right there on the label without sacrificing the proprietary formula integrity. </end kiss-ass>
 
SokVichet said:
HA! :lol:

On a side note, I totally understand proprietary blends/matrixes, but I really wish more supp companies would label the quantity of the more key ingredients like AEN does. It's difficult to manage my bulk supplies with proprietary formulas if it isn't done this way.

Take the Intrabolic label for example. The Leucine and Beta-Alanine amounts are right there on the label without sacrificing the proprietary formula integrity. </end kiss-ass>
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Thanks for that. I know Sebastian has each ingredient properly dosed based upon research, so we take pride in that. The knock-offs can get tiresome, but consumers come first.

We are offering free samples actually, if you're interested :cool:
 
Bump.

(Never done that before.. thought I'd try it.)
The bumping thing that is - not the sun dried monkey balls, ahaa..

Any other ideas out there?
 
I'm gonna get this embarrassing story out of me before starting my log (it's coming, i swear...). With all of this Poseidon talk, I feel this is somewhat relevant, lol. Niacin FTW.

I felt like the biggest idiot this weekend. Got my Poseidon Saturday morning, took three doses over the course of the previous day for tolerance. On Sunday morning, I was so busy and in a hurry I didn't remember I had added Poseidon to my late "upon waking" concoction, and had already added a scoop to my "preworkout" concoction... That combined with the niacin from PW and that's approx 235mg of Niacin in a short timeframe... As soon as I downed it I realized what I had done, performed the math in my head, and thought "awww sh*t".

Yeah...

My wife thought it was hilarious. Me, standing there, literally candy apple red and skin so hot I could heat a jacuzzi. It happened so fast, I barely had time to wet a rag to relieve the heat. Had I not been so calm about it and explained why I was the color of her father's convertible, she probably would have freaked out and forced me to the hospital. However, seeing me somewhat embarrassed she went to get a camera so she could make fun of me forever, but by then I jumped my beet-red ass in the shower for a quick cooldown. Didn't help, but at least I dropped a few shades back to normal before she snapped some shots. Twenty minutes later, I had this strange but BEAUTIFUL tan that lasted the rest of the day. Hmmm.
 
LOL, ah I love me the niacin burn man. Wish it would hit me like that every time..

Reminds me of my first experience with Poseidon, stuff lit me up like a Christmas tree.. it was awesome!
 
ROFL, I now respect the power of 75mg per serving. I will not tempt the wrath of the Niacin again.

It was like I had fallen asleep for three days... somewhere in the Sahara desert. 500mg would have me conceding and on my way to the hospital, lol.
 
Preworkout:
MHP Anadrox (Fat Burner)
1 Vitamin C
2 Ibuprofen

During:
Creatine HSC/1 scoop of whey/ 2 tsp. of glutamine

Post:
Creatine HSC/2 scoops of whey

30 min. later:
white rice
1 scoop of whey

30 min. after that:
2 scoops of whey/ 2 tsp. of glutamine/16oz of milk/vitamin
small meal with low gi carb and meat
 
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