idea for superdrol gyno rebound

[Kristofer68SS]

:think:.:thumbsup:

this superdrol pct has cost me hours of research and countless arguments.

So many different opinions on how to do it properly.

So many successfull and unsuccessful pcts.

This sob is totally person dependant, its sickening.

I have two close personal accounts of pcts that were successful. both with an AI(ldex was tapered)...... 1 with clomid, 1 with test booster.

I dont get it................ roll the dice i guess.

 

[BlackSheep]

this superdrol pct has cost me hours of research and countless arguments.

So many different opinions on how to do it properly.

So many successfull and unsuccessful pcts.

This sob is totally person dependant, its sickening.

I have two close personal accounts of pcts that were successful. both with an AI(ldex was tapered)...... 1 with clomid, 1 with test booster.

I dont get it................ roll the dice i guess.

Your about a bipolar mofo:lol: Well the way I chose to do it was to run it at a lower end dose 10,20mgs and only stay on the posiondrol for a quick two week burst. I guess we'll know in a few months it my idea payed off or not. Check out my log if you want. It's "BlackSheep's NO BS M-Drol quickie" in the steroid section:head:

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Your about a bipolar mofo:lol: Well the way I chose to do it was to run it at a lower end dose 10,20mgs and only stay on the posiondrol for a quick two week burst. I guess we'll know in a few months it my idea payed off or not. Check out my log if you want. It's "BlackSheep's NO BS M-Drol quickie" in the steroid section:head:

Not really. No moodier than the next. I dont get angry over this shyt. Maybe it appears that way. But i assure you, i come here to "get away".

I will watch your log. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[BlackSheep]

Not really. No moodier than the next. I dont get angry over this shyt. Maybe it appears that way. But i assure you, i come here to "get away".

I will watch your log. Thanks for the heads up.

Yea me too real life sucks IMO...:lol:

 

[Mulletsoldier]

It seems nobody takes into account the elimination half-lives of these compounds (both anabolic and anti-estrogenic) when considering their P.C.T. plan. Hmm.

 

[BlackSheep]

It seems nobody takes into account the elimination half-lives of these compounds (both anabolic and anti-estrogenic) when considering their P.C.T. plan. Hmm.

That is very, very true. As far as I know not much is known in this area. I thought (have heard from others) that superdrol is active in the system for 10-12 hours. I don't know though. With test it's easy to know when to start pct because there are detailed medical accounts of how long it take for what ester to clear the body ect, ect.... Test-E for example I beleive (and correct me if I'm wrong ) takes something like 4 weeks...Test prop is a little over a week (I have this all written down some where)..

 

[Mulletsoldier]

That is very, very true. As far as I know not much is known in this area. I thought (have heard from others) that superdrol is active in the system for 10-12 hours. I don't know though. With test it's easy to know when to start pct because there are detailed medical accounts of how long it take for what ester to clear the body ect, ect.... Test-E for example I beleive (and correct me if I'm wrong ) takes something like 4 weeks...Test prop is a little over a week (I have this all written down some where)..

That is true. I was also alluding to the half-lives of the AIs in question, and beyond that, the endocrinological effects they exert irrespective of their half-lives. Something which happens to slip my mind from time to time as well, is that receptor action, cleaving, and so on can take place after the estimated clearance time of the compound. In that respect, you are left with a hormonal milieu you may not have predicted based on relevant clearance times. The real problem is that half-life estimates do not account for the aforementioned actions of the compound, but merely the time period it takes to go from 100mg to 50mg to 25mg, and so on. To truly plot a P.C.T., one needs to take into account the various physiological changes occurring while the compound is going from 100mg to 50mg to 25mg and so on. These exogenous hormonal fluctuations consequently produce endogenous hormonal fluctuations.

I think this misunderstanding of compound action produces much of the 'rebound gynecomastia' spoken about in threads such as these. Then again, one cannot discount the random probability factor of the human body. Lord knows I've put my own body through some crazy ****.

 

[BlackSheep]

That is true. I was also alluding to the half-lives of the AIs in question, and beyond that, the endocrinological effects they exert irrespective of their half-lives. Something which happens to slip my mind from time to time as well, is that receptor action, cleaving, and so on can take place after the estimated clearance time of the compound. In that respect, you are left with a hormonal milieu you may not have predicted based on relevant clearance times. The real problem is that half-life estimates do not account for the aforementioned actions of the compound, but merely the time period it takes to go from 100mg to 50mg to 25mg, and so on. To truly plot a P.C.T., one needs to take into account the various physiological changes occurring while the compound is going from 100mg to 50mg to 25mg and so on. These exogenous hormonal fluctuations consequently produce endogenous hormonal fluctuations.

I think this misunderstanding of compound action produces much of the 'rebound gynecomastia' spoken about in threads such as these. Then again, one cannot discount the random probability factor of the human body. Lord knows I've put my own body through some crazy ****.

Good god man you need to be a lawyer, you have a gift fwith words for sure lol...
I hear what your saying though and it seems like, a. either everyone who runs this crap needs to get blood done before, during and a few times after cessation of the compound, or b. we need some clinical studies on this stuff. IMO It's a progestin. I have recently read the updated ban on Phera, bold and tren and it seems the reason superdrol has not been banned yet is because it is slipping through the loophole so to speak because it is in fact a progestin. Can I back that up?....NO JMHO though...

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Good god man you need to be a lawyer, you have a gift fwith words for sure lol...
I hear what your saying though and it seems like, a. either everyone who runs this crap needs to get blood done before, during and a few times after cessation of the compound, or b. we need some clinical studies on this stuff. IMO It's a progestin. I have recently read the updated ban on Phera, bold and tren and it seems the reason superdrol has not been banned yet is because it is slipping through the loophole so to speak because it is in fact a progestin. Can I back that up?....NO JMHO though...

That, and all orals have some - however much I'm not sure - progestinic activity due to they methylation at the 17th position. I have also heard that Anadrol can mimick the actions of Estro., It is my guess much of the SD clones are directly synthesized (and poorly) from Anadrol causing many of the side-effects associated with it.

I say that both from a pharmacological standpoint, but anecdotal as well; if you dig through the archives NONE of the original DS Beta Testers, or subsequent AX relicense testers report the side effects commonly associated with SD. Makes me think there is some funky chunky going into the SD monkey.

 

[BB12]

I have phera-bol.. I'm wondering if this would have the same bunk effects....as it's a clone as well.

 

[BlackSheep]

That, and all orals have some - however much I'm not sure - progestinic activity due to they methylation at the 17th position. I have also heard that Anadrol can mimick the actions of Estro., It is my guess much of the SD clones are directly synthesized (and poorly) from Anadrol causing many of the side-effects associated with it.

I say that both from a pharmacological standpoint, but anecdotal as well; if you dig through the archives NONE of the original DS Beta Testers, or subsequent AX relicense testers report the side effects commonly associated with SD. Makes me think there is some funky chunky going into the SD monkey.

True. I'm going back to natty and ending my cycle as planned today in an attempt to avoid these aforementioned effects associated with this stuff. I have fun and make decent gains on the supps that are out these days anyways. The next time I run a cycle it'll be the tried and true T:thumbsup:.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

True. I'm going back to natty and ending my cycle as planned today in an attempt to avoid these aforementioned effects associated with this stuff. I have fun and make decent gains on the supps that are out these days anyways. The next time I run a cycle it'll be the tried and true T:thumbsup:.

Nice, that's the way!

 

[bassgod272]

That, and all orals have some - however much I'm not sure - progestinic activity due to they methylation at the 17th position. I have also heard that Anadrol can mimick the actions of Estro., It is my guess much of the SD clones are directly synthesized (and poorly) from Anadrol causing many of the side-effects associated with it.

I say that both from a pharmacological standpoint, but anecdotal as well; if you dig through the archives NONE of the original DS Beta Testers, or subsequent AX relicense testers report the side effects commonly associated with SD. Makes me think there is some funky chunky going into the SD monkey.

DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER! But seriously bro, like I stated before in the thread: Delayed gyno didn't even exist when AX and DS Superdrol were out. It only showed its ugly face when the clones came out. SOME clones were actually TAINTED with anadrol...This is why I used LEGIT DS Superdrol bulk powder when I ran it

 

[bassgod272]

I have phera-bol.. I'm wondering if this would have the same bunk effects....as it's a clone as well.

You'll never know til you try it :twisted: I've only used P-Plex, not actual Phera-Plex, so I can't say for sure.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER! But seriously bro, like I stated before in the thread: Delayed gyno didn't even exist when AX and DS Superdrol were out. It only showed its ugly face when the clones came out. SOME clones were actually TAINTED with anadrol...This is why I used LEGIT DS Superdrol bulk powder when I ran it

can we tell by ingredient list? I mean how can we tell whats legit and what isnt? honestly

My two accounts(friends doing sd). 1 was AX and the other was clone.

Mullet for president..............SOB has the gift of gab like no other. I swear he has the dictionary AND thesaurus memorized.

 

[bassgod272]

can we tell by ingredient list? I mean how can we tell whats legit and what isnt? honestly

My two accounts(friends doing sd). 1 was AX and the other was clone.

Mullet for president..............SOB has the gift of gab like no other. I swear he has the dictionary AND thesaurus memorized.

We can't really tell PERIOD. We don't know what is in ANY PH. That's why you should stick to the real deal. PA tested Methox-TRN and said there was something else(don't recall what exactly) in it than what the label claimed. Kilosports Trenadrol claims to be the exact same compound as M-TRN yet logs show TOTALLY different results, sides, etc. DS has a high rep for a reason and were the ones who OWNED the Superdrol compound because they were the first to ever release it. That IS the real deal. All we can say for sure is that since these clones have came out, the delayed gyno has become a big problem for many users. Such an issue never arose prior to the clones being available. I have heard from another source in the past that select clones were actually tainted with anadrol. It would make total sense for them to synthesize SD from anadrol as their chemical structure is VERY similar. I'm sure mullet can chime in here...

 

[The_Reverend]

DING DING DING! WE HAVE A WINNER! But seriously bro, like I stated before in the thread: Delayed gyno didn't even exist when AX and DS Superdrol were out. It only showed its ugly face when the clones came out. SOME clones were actually TAINTED with anadrol...This is why I used LEGIT DS Superdrol bulk powder when I ran it

Negative. My first case of nasty estrogen rebound was with AX superdrol. That was also when I would run an AI during PCT.

 

[bassgod272]

Negative. My first case of nasty estrogen rebound was with AX superdrol. That was also when I would run an AI during PCT.

AI's shouldn't be used in a SD PCT. :sad:

 

[Kristofer68SS]

AI's shouldn't be used in a SD PCT. :sad:

now, no offense.........but

so says you.

PA doesnt seem to think so.......... but he may be talking 6oxo which is a weak AI>

im not pickin at you bass.........just sayin

i am leaning no AI. at least for 3-4 weeks. then maybe kick it in, then taper it back.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

Negative. My first case of nasty estrogen rebound was with AX superdrol. That was also when I would run an AI during PCT.

gotta throw a cog in there.......lol

 

[Kristofer68SS]

We can't really tell PERIOD. We don't know what is in ANY PH. That's why you should stick to the real deal. PA tested Methox-TRN and said there was something else(don't recall what exactly) in it than what the label claimed. Kilosports Trenadrol claims to be the exact same compound as M-TRN yet logs show TOTALLY different results, sides, etc. DS has a high rep for a reason and were the ones who OWNED the Superdrol compound because they were the first to ever release it. That IS the real deal. All we can say for sure is that since these clones have came out, the delayed gyno has become a big problem for many users. Such an issue never arose prior to the clones being available. I have heard from another source in the past that select clones were actually tainted with anadrol. It would make total sense for them to synthesize SD from anadrol as their chemical structure is VERY similar. I'm sure mullet can chime in here...

this is what is very sad. the end user going in blind. how the hell do you know what to use, if you dont know what your taking.

SOB's..........

 

[The_Reverend]

now, no offense.........but

so says you.

PA doesnt seem to think so.......... but he may be talking 6oxo which is a weak AI>

im not pickin at you bass.........just sayin

i am leaning no AI. at least for 3-4 weeks. then maybe kick it in, then taper it back.

PA has his wallet in mind when he spews **** like that from his mouth.

 

[The_Reverend]

gotta throw a cog in there.......lol

It makes for interesting conversations. :icon_lol:

 

[bassgod272]

now, no offense.........but

so says you.

PA doesnt seem to think so.......... but he may be talking 6oxo which is a weak AI>

im not pickin at you bass.........just sayin

i am leaning no AI. at least for 3-4 weeks. then maybe kick it in, then taper it back.

this is exactly what i recommended to you before, and you said; "an 8 week PCT for a 3 week cycle is ridiculous."

 

[Mulletsoldier]

We can't really tell PERIOD. We don't know what is in ANY PH. That's why you should stick to the real deal. PA tested Methox-TRN and said there was something else(don't recall what exactly) in it than what the label claimed. Kilosports Trenadrol claims to be the exact same compound as M-TRN yet logs show TOTALLY different results, sides, etc. DS has a high rep for a reason and were the ones who OWNED the Superdrol compound because they were the first to ever release it. That IS the real deal. All we can say for sure is that since these clones have came out, the delayed gyno has become a big problem for many users. Such an issue never arose prior to the clones being available. I have heard from another source in the past that select clones were actually tainted with anadrol. It would make total sense for them to synthesize SD from anadrol as their chemical structure is VERY similar. I'm sure mullet can chime in here...

In terms of legitimate methylmasteron sources, parties at both Anabolic Xtreme and DS had confirmed in the past the raw source for each was one in the same; Anabolic Xtreme SuperDrol and Designer Supplements SuperDrol were the same compound, synthesized by the same source. Take that for what it is worth.

Chemistry is admittedly not my forte, but I believe it is easier to super saturate the Hydrogen from the 2nd carbon position on Anadrol to synthesize SD, than it is to add a methyl group at the 17th position to Masteron. A 'dirty' conversion in the former respect would produce instant watery gains, androgenic side effects, gynecomastia, and so on; in all respects, Masteron itself is a very mild, extremely anabolic compound which users report little to nothing in the way of common androgenic side effects. Technically, SD should perform much more akin to the latter than the former, but with many clones this does not seem to be the case.

Interestingly enough, the most reputable company currently producing designers - CEL - has come under fire for the relative 'weakness' of their M-DROL clone. I find this hilarious, as it has been confirmed their source material is one-in-the-same with the AX source material. It would seem individuals became accustomed to the effects, and reports made thereof, of these poorly synthesized clones, and did not recognize the effects of a subtle compound.

Anybody who is interested in this issue, search the archives for the original tester logs. Off the top of my head, B5150 and LeanOne both tested the compound. They reported very clean and maintainable gains, with very low occurrences of BP and lipid issues.

 

[bassgod272]

Yea I am aware of th DS/AX thing, I just mentioned DS because I thought that they came out with SD first? Maybe not, I wasn't in the PH game back then, so...As far as SD goes, I ran it once and escaped with zero issues, lol. So I will probably never use it again. I am not a big fan of the compound myself. I agree with you about CEL. I used their P-Plex with no problems. The ONLY product they had that was bunk, was the m1,4add. That was not even their fault.

 

[Ziquor]

Well stated Mullet. I always found it amusing too, how many of the M-Drol "non-responders" just finished their last M-Drol cycle 2 weeks prior - and wondered why they weren't seeing massive gains again. As if were literally a 'supplement'.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

this is exactly what i recommended to you before, and you said; "an 8 week PCT for a 3 week cycle is ridiculous."

well in all fairness when i added it up, i think i recall 10-12 weeks. i still do have a hard time with pct being twice as long as the cycle. However, it seems this is the way it must be. I stand corrected.

wasnt it something like this....i suffer from CRS.

4 serm,
4 ai-up
4-ai-down, b6 or test booster or whatever it was.

your probably correct, though.

I didnt pick at PA's pct length. I was merely introducing it as an AI containing pct.

to be honest, ALOT of the pct's thrown around this thread look good. To say i would swear by any of them......Wont happen.

i am pleased to have this many experienced and intelligent guys interjecting their experiences and opinions on gynodrol and pct.

Props to bass, ziquor, mullet, OP, reverend and anyone else whom have shared in this thread.

 

[bassgod272]

well in all fairness when i added it up, i think i recall 10-12 weeks. i still do have a hard time with pct being twice as long as the cycle. However, it seems this is the way it must be. I stand corrected.

wasnt it something like this....i suffer from CRS.

4 serm,
4 ai-up
4-ai-down, b6 or test booster or whatever it was.

your probably correct, though.

I didnt pick at PA's pct length. I was merely introducing it as an AI containing pct.

to be honest, ALOT of the pct's thrown around this thread look good. To say i would swear by any of them......Wont happen.

i am pleased to have this many experienced and intelligent guys interjecting their experiences and opinions on gynodrol and pct.

Props to bass, ziquor, mullet, OP, reverend and anyone else whom have shared in this thread.

I say fvck the SD and just run Epistane, havoc, etc Also, I said 4 weeks of the SERM then start the AI at high dose and taper it down for an additional 4 weeks. Also start the p-5-p out high and taper that down during the same time you are taking the SERM. Worked wonders for me. That's 8 weeks But yea, fvck SD. I will never use it again. TEST FTW!!!

 

[BlackSheep]

But yea, fvck SD. I will never use it again. TEST FTW!!!

Your just saying that cause your on the sauce, ya junkie lol..:lol:.
You know you liked da super:thumbsup:

 

[bassgod272]

Your just saying that cause your on the sauce, ya junkie lol..:lol:.
You know you liked da super:thumbsup:

lol, that may be. I used it during the last portion of my phera/SD bridge, so I was shut da fvck down hardcore. I felt like sh!t. I did gain an extra 5-6lbs from adding it in at the end, but I will PROBABLY never use it again. There, is that better? lol.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

I say fvck the SD and just run Epistane, havoc, etc Also, I said 4 weeks of the SERM then start the AI at high dose and taper it down for an additional 4 weeks. Also start the p-5-p out high and taper that down during the same time you are taking the SERM. Worked wonders for me. That's 8 weeks But yea, fvck SD. I will never use it again. TEST FTW!!!

yeah im with you. the more i read about this prick, gynodrol and its bastard offspring, the more i think about throwing my stash in the trash.

i concur, test is best!

 

[2k2ser]

I say fvck the SD and just run Epistane, havoc, etc Also, I said 4 weeks of the SERM then start the AI at high dose and taper it down for an additional 4 weeks. Also start the p-5-p out high and taper that down during the same time you are taking the SERM. Worked wonders for me. That's 8 weeks But yea, fvck SD. I will never use it again. TEST FTW!!!

So what AI do you recommend? I already have A-dex, just needed a dosing schedule for the end. Everyone mentions 6oxo, it costs more than my A-dex did. I already ordered the DTHC and the P-5-P today at NP.

Here's my planned PCT
WK 1 Torem @ 120
WK 2 Torem @ 90
Wk 3 Torem @ 60
Wk 4 Torem @ 30 and start AI (still need opinions)

DTHC for the natural boost. P-5-P starts high, then tapers down.

 

[bassgod272]

yeah im with you. the more i read about this prick, gynodrol and its bastard offspring, the more i think about throwing my stash in the trash.

i concur, test is best!

if anything, just sell it. don't trash it and lose $

 

[Kristofer68SS]

So what AI do you recommend? I already have A-dex, just needed a dosing schedule for the end. Everyone mentions 6oxo, it costs more than my A-dex did. I already ordered the DTHC and the P-5-P today at NP.

Here's my planned PCT
WK 1 Torem @ 120
WK 2 Torem @ 90
Wk 3 Torem @ 60
Wk 4 Torem @ 30 and start AI (still need opinions)

DTHC for the natural boost. P-5-P starts high, then tapers down.

that looks good, im sure the fellows will chime it.

AI, dont know. at 4 weeks out, i would rec'd oxo not ldex.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

if anything, just sell it. don't trash it and lose $

nah, i wouldnt throw money away. The expo's are a ways off. We shall see.

 

[bassgod272]

So what AI do you recommend? I already have A-dex, just needed a dosing schedule for the end. Everyone mentions 6oxo, it costs more than my A-dex did. I already ordered the DTHC and the P-5-P today at NP.

Here's my planned PCT
WK 1 Torem @ 120
WK 2 Torem @ 90
Wk 3 Torem @ 60
Wk 4 Torem @ 30 and start AI (still need opinions)

DTHC for the natural boost. P-5-P starts high, then tapers down.

p-5-p run at 150mg x1 week, 100 x1 week, 50 x1 week, then 25 for the last week. 6-OXO is expensive for sure. I have never even used the stuff myself. Adex is a bit much IMO. Maybe run something like ALRI's Restore or if you can find it, some formestane. HyperdrolX2 would do the trick as well, but it is a little on the expensive side too. You can use the adex, but at a low dose. It is a potent AI and you don't want to irradicate estro all together, ESPECIALLY after PCT. You just want to control it and keep it in check.

 

[BlackSheep]

lol, that may be. I used it during the last portion of my phera/SD bridge, so I was shut da fvck down hardcore. I felt like sh!t. I did gain an extra 5-6lbs from adding it in at the end, but I will PROBABLY never use it again. There, is that better? lol.

haha, yes much better.....

 

[2k2ser]

Searching for some old threads and found this. Good info........

 

[mcgee1516]

I did a survey, or study so to speak, about this. I used about 5 different sites. The results were something like 64% said they did not get gyno from Super and 36% said they did. There were over 300 responders total. I did some PM 'ing and found that a HUGE majority of those who DID get delayed gyno used an AI in their PCT. Nearly all responders who claimed no gyno used a SERM only. I had some correspondence with a few docs and a chemist as well. Superdrol, much like masteron and anadrol that Super is closely related to chemically, on top of everything else they do, they also act as pretty strong AI's pretty much obliterate estrogen. My theory ended up being this: with estrogen being supressed so much while ON Superdrol, then going into pct using an AI which supresses estrogen further is the killer combo. After so much Estro is supressed for 7-9 weeks or more it seems to create a wicked rebound of Estrogen that usually occurs 2-8 weeks after stopping the AI. Again just a theory but after all the research I did & people I spoke to it seemed to be the most logical reason.

hey man I just saw your post on an S-drol thread and I had a question about pct...specifically nolva. The cycle im going to run is 10/20/20 and maybe an additional fourth week at 20 ed. I have 6oxo and DHEAA on hand for my otc's but do I really need nolva? I hear some people say no and some say it's a must. This is my first sdrol cycle and I want to be as safe as possible but it would also be a pain to get my hands on some nolva. The only ones that I could find available are in liquid form, and is the liquid tamoxifen just as good? Would one bottle be sufficient for my PCT? I saw your post about only using the SERM immediately after the cycle and then cycling in a 6oxo or something after a months worth of nolva, do you think thats what I should do? Thanks a lot...