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Somebody who know their ***t

4 the look

4 the look

New member
okay, this is my first cycle of test. I am taking Enanthate 200, which is put out in America...supposedly good stuff!?!?!?!
here's my info:
age: 35
height: 5' 10"
weight: 185
bodyfat: 10%

I am trying to put on LEAN muscle mass without putting on the extra lbs of blubber.
my first question is: how much surplus do I need in my diet, if any?
secondly, how much test should I take for my first cycle? some friends have suggested that I start with one cc a week, pyramid up, and then back down, using only 10cc's in the cycle. I have 20 cc! ;)
I have taken some prohormones, and was not satisfied with them.
also, how can I minimize water retention on this cycle. I have done some research and know that clean eating is essential...I have that covered, as you can see in my body comp!
I plan to run CLomid and HCG in my pct.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
Pyramiding might sound great, but it doesnt work in real life. The logic behind it is to try to minimize the testes shutdown at the beginning of the cycle, yet try to allow them to start up earlier at the end since your lowering your dose back down....Shutdown basically can occurr at even 200mgs, so you might as well start with whatever mg you are going to run for the entire cycle...If this is your first real deal cycle, I would go with 400mgs and stick myself twice a week....In other words 1cc on Monday and 1cc on Thursday....if you have 20 ccs, that will last you obiously 10 weeks, which is plenty long enough for enanthate. If you want to keep the water down, I suggest arimidex...anything higher up the food chain than that is overkill.

holy
 
You should up your protein and caloric intake substantially with a clean diet and well timed carbs. This should yield good clean gains.

I would take 2 cc's a week throughout the cycle. Makes it easy for a ten weeker.

Estrogen management is key if water rretention is an issue. Any good ai can be useful.

I like to run hCG throughout my cycle and thencease at pct. This keeps things full and functional throughout.
 
okay, thanks.
I didn't mean to sound impatient....but I was. lol
I will plan to do 2 cc a week for 10 weeks, followed by proper pct. I will not use Nolva unless symptoms of gyno appear.
what kind of gains should I expect, having never taken any injectables?
 
HolyIntillect is spot on. Pyramiding up then down is way outdated, and for a first cycle, 400mg/wk is fine. Enanthate has a long half life (see Invalid Link Removed ) , so I think you could get away with a 2cc injection once a week. That would give the injection site a rest between shots too. I even know people that have gone 10 days between injections and gotten good results with test-E. I wouldn't worry about the water retention till you see how it will affect you. You might not have a problem with water, but get insane acne. If your diet is squared away, and you drink enough water, and still have a problem, I'd try something like Taraxatone. Arimadex is great if you can afford it though. Also, Clomid is great for gyno, at least for me, 50mg/d till it goes away then 25mg every other day. That's just from personal exp.
 
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You should blow up pretty good on 400mg a wk since its your first cycle. Enjoy your gains on it, should be 15pounds and up from it.
 
mattikus said:
Estrogen management is key if water rretention is an issue. Any good ai can be useful.
Click to expand...

This is one of the most misunderstood items out there....guys think they can keep the water retention down by eating clean...water retention is caused by aromatization, not Big Macs....very good point mattikus!

holy
 
thanks so much guys. do you think it would be that good to shoot 2cc(400 mg) at once? i am hearing a lot of controversy about how much, including pissing it out?!??!
 
holyintellect said:
This is one of the most misunderstood items out there....guys think they can keep the water retention down by eating clean...water retention is caused by aromatization, not Big Macs....very good point mattikus!

holy
Click to expand...


I know you prep guys, i remember reading Palumbo state that people who hold alot of water during cycle should replace a good portion of their carbs with fat, are you saying this is not the case? Just curious.
 
A good diet will help with water retention also. Low sodium, quality carbs, and good fats are key. I have never had a problem so I have never tried replacing carbs with fats, but it does make sense. Quality fats are needed tho, not big macs.:) The estrogen management is often still necessary when running aromatizing compounds.
 
4 the look said:
I am trying to put on LEAN muscle mass without putting on the extra lbs of blubber.
Click to expand...
my first question is: how much surplus do I need in my diet, if any?
Click to expand...
This is something that should be determine prior to any steroid use. At 5'10" - 185# you really could gain lbm slowly and surely if your diet was right, right now. So here comes the dreaded question - what does your diet look like now. Followed by the dreaded statement - if your diet is not right steroids are not the solution
secondly, how much test should I take for my first cycle? some friends have suggested that I start with one cc a week, pyramid up, and then back down, using only 10cc's in the cycle. I have 20 cc! ;)
Click to expand...
Pyramid is not the way to go. If anything front load and or ramping, but not pyramid.
I have taken some prohormones, and was not satisfied with them.
Click to expand...
Back to my diet comment.
also, how can I minimize water retention on this cycle. I have done some research and know that clean eating is essential...I have that covered, as you can see in my body comp!
Click to expand...
Some water weight is desired as estrogen has anabolic properties as well as other health benefits like keeping your lipids in order. Too low estrogen can cause lipid issues as well as joint issues. Your body composition does not necessarily mean your diet is covered. You asked how much surplus which suggests that you have some room to learn your body beyond just its present stated composition.
I plan to run CLomid and HCG in my pct.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
We have a PCT forum here for just that question. Research it when you get the time.

Good luck.
 
jcp2 said:
I know you prep guys, i remember reading Palumbo state that people who hold alot of water during cycle should replace a good portion of their carbs with fat, are you saying this is not the case? Just curious.
Click to expand...

Dave believes in a zero carb precontest diet...its hard to argue with the results he typically gets. I dont discount the fact that diet contributes to water retention, but the bigger issue is aromatization...I dont care how clean you eat, if you run a longer ester test, dbol, anadrol, etc....you're going to have water issues unless you take an aromatase inhibitor.....

holy
 
B5150 said:
This is something that should be determine prior to any steroid use. At 5'10" - 185# you really could gain lbm slowly and surely if your diet was right, right now. So here comes the dreaded question - what does your diet look like now. Followed by the dreaded statement - if your diet is not right steroids are not the solution Pyramid is not the way to go. If anything front load and or ramping, but not pyramid. Back to my diet comment. Some water weight is desired as estrogen has anabolic properties as well as other health benefits like keeping your lipids in order. Too low estrogen can cause lipid issues as well as joint issues. Your body composition does not necessarily mean your diet is covered. You asked how much surplus which suggests that you have some room to learn your body beyond just its present stated composition.We have a PCT forum here for just that question. Research it when you get the time.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
okay, my diet is extremely clean...daily. except for an occasianal weekend party, of course!
I only take in complex carbs for break fast, lunck and dinner.
and ONLY take in simple carbs imediately folling a heavy training session.
Here's the breakdown:
about 2700- 3000 calories
55% protien
30% Carbs
15% fat

any suggestions?
I am currently about 8-10% bodyfat!
 
4 the look said:
okay, my diet is extremely clean...daily. except for an occasianal weekend party, of course!
I only take in complex carbs for break fast, lunck and dinner.
and ONLY take in simple carbs imediately folling a heavy training session.
Here's the breakdown:
about 2700- 3000 calories
55% protien
30% Carbs
15% fat

any suggestions?
I am currently about 8-10% bodyfat!
Click to expand...
Assuming that you goal is to avoid fat gain and to gain LBM only I would bump it by 10% or 300 calories a day. That is assuming all else does not change.

Depending upon your response to carbohydrates you could make it from carbs. But if you are like many carbs only potentiate fat gain regardless.

If your numbers are correct at 3000 calories you would be getting ~1600 calories from protein for 400g of protein. Thats a lot of protein for someone 185lbs.

This leaves you with fat intake as an other alternative. ~10 to 20 fish oil capsules could easily add 100-200 calories without any effort at all.

If you chose carbohydrates target them around your pre and post workout and make them complex.

You could add a post training cardio session of 20 mins of medium intensity cardio. This works as a great nutrient partioner.

if things go well, bump it a another 5-10% and repeat.

There's carb cycling, calorie cycling, deconditioning, volume, etc etc and many others ways to achieve your goals of LBM without fat without the need to resort to steroids.

I don't mean to be difficult of obstinate. The point I try to make is that really having your diet right is the only way to get it right. The best way is to experiment meticulously. Then and only then will steroids be beneficial if at all. My suggestion is tune up your diet with these recommendations with maybe the addition of the treadmill and run with that for a month or so. You really should see some results. If not, or not fast enough for you, then of course you can resort to steroids. But you still need the diet prerequisite.

Personally, if I am gaining more than 2 to 3 lbs a months then I am gaining too fast. But that is just me.

BTW, I am not anti-steroids...
 
I'll roll with B5150,
increase your protein intake over the first 2 weeks by about 10%/week, make sure its at least 2x/bw. If you're worried about getting fat, taking in too much protein is better then too many carbs. Increase the amount of EFA's you take in daily to. It's an easy way to add 1000+ calories that will help keep you healthy and lean. It will also keep your cholesterol in check.

Keep your carbs from natural starchy foods like potatoes / yams rice /etc. Lots of veggies/fruit as well, they minimize how acidic your body becomes [think pH balancing] This will also help you reduce bloating feelings/cramps, and the "aged" look. Lots of Vit "C" also helped with my bloating as well, to be honest i'm not sure why but it did so i'll pass it on, take about 3gr/day between meals.

On a side note, at 5'8 and 185 and lean you need to be eating EVERYTHING, you'll get some water retention but you are going to have to try and get fat because its difficult to get fat with 10x the natural levels of test in your body, especially if you're doing cardio a few times a week.

and as for how often you will be pinning, pin every 3 days. way better then shooting a weeks worth in one shot. I never shoot more then 1cc anywhere anymore. once you've learned to pin everywhere just keep rotating your injection sites. This will create more facial stretching, better absorption, less injection pain, more injection practice and knowledge and of course, more pinning! [ps. I love injecting]

another side note, if you're going to use gear once, you're going to use it twice, so even if you gain a bit of BF get shredded on your next cycle. Obviously I'm not promoting looking like a marshmellow but just keep the goal of maximizing gains in mind while on. Its a fun ride so enjoy it.

peace

ironjoe
 
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