Havoc with Furazadrol Frontload

[DBinMD]

How's your BP doing as compared to your normal levels and compared to your other 2 cycles? BP and HDL are the 2 things that can get really wacked for me on cycle.

 

[celc5]

BigT, that movie looks effin sweet!!!! I love the scene in the trailer that shows the Joker sitting irritated in his jail cell :head:

DBin, glad to see you on board. You had some good posts in that one fellas Phera log a while back! BP has not budged an inch. I'm taking 1.5g HB and I preloaded it for about 10 days.

As compared to my other cycles, BP was unaffected with halo.

BP was unaffected with Phera, but it did elevate substantially during the first week of post cycle (like +50mm systolic! Yikes!). I attribute that issue to stopping taurine while the phera was still active and set myself up for back pumps. I loaded up on about 15g taurine for a day or 2 and BP was back to normal. So, I simply tapered my taurine thereafter for about a week and have been fine since then.

 

[celc5]

Day 9

Havoc 30
Furaz 200

Today was back and bis day and motivation was through the roof! Despite some pretty "sleepy" lethargy all day, I felt like I could work out for hours. I lifted for a little over 2 hours with a few notable strength increases from last week.
I had two lifts that I failed at 3 reps last week where I was able to achieve 5 today. I'm approaching PRs in a few categories and expect to get a deadlift of over 450 by the end of the cycle.

Pump was great and I am starting to have that "on" cycle hardness come into play. I have a feeling I'll be putting on a pound or 2 of lean mass this week. Cardio is still in the picture, but I've lost interest in the recomp goals and have shifted to a clean bulk diet. The only difference honestly, is a few more carbs at breakfast and during the afternoon.

Libido is up and down but nothing that a few Ejaculoids won't take care of. The only thing I don't like about that product is the yohimbe content, which makes it a pain if I dose it at night for "emergencies"

 

[Trauma1]

Log is looking good celc! Nice work buddy!

I've used Ejaculoid in the past. I was pretty impressed with it overall.

 

[DBinMD]

DBin, glad to see you on board. You had some good posts in that one fellas Phera log a while back! BP has not budged an inch. I'm taking 1.5g HB and I preloaded it for about 10 days.

As compared to my other cycles, BP was unaffected with halo.

BP was unaffected with Phera, but it did elevate substantially during the first week of post cycle (like +50mm systolic! Yikes!). I attribute that issue to stopping taurine while the phera was still active and set myself up for back pumps. I loaded up on about 15g taurine for a day or 2 and BP was back to normal. So, I simply tapered my taurine thereafter for about a week and have been fine since then.

Glad to be back, Fur is on my list to try.

My systolic tends to run a little high anyway so I tried HB and AI cycle support. It didn't help at all, even when not on cycle and when I was on phera my BP wouldn't even register. Since back pumps haven't been much of an issure, I haven't done much taurine, I may try it again. So now I'm on a calcium channel blocker and an ACE inhibitor.

Thanks

 

[celc5]

Glad to be back, Fur is on my list to try.

My systolic tends to run a little high anyway so I tried HB and AI cycle support. It didn't help at all, even when not on cycle and when I was on phera my BP wouldn't even register. Since back pumps haven't been much of an issure, I haven't done much taurine, I may try it again. So now I'm on a calcium channel blocker and an ACE inhibitor.

Thanks

Considering the medications, I want to hesitate to give you advice because I'm certainly not a physician.

How did you dose the HB? I find that formestane DOES elevate my BP and it takes 1.5-2g HB to combat that. The majority suggest lower dosages, and quite frankly, it just doesn't cut it.

As a side note, I suspect that aggressively dosing taurine might help with BP, in the 10g range. I've done some very rudimentory research to look for evidence to support my suspician but never really found anything. It would be a relatively inexpensive experiment to run, even if it didn't help you.

Finally, I've noticed that light to moderate intensity underwater swimming for 20 minutes 4x/wk dropped my systolic FIFTEEN mm in only 2-3 weeks last summer!!!

 

[thebigt]

i have mildly high bp, i get really good results on a third of what you are dosing. hb has been very good to me. btw google wobenzym n and tell me what you think. planning on seeing dark night soon, but don't think i can handle standing in the long lines yet.

 

[Trauma1]

Statistical Progression:
...........Weight.....BF%.....Lean Mass.....Bodyfat
Initial....189.8......15.15......161.05.........28.75
Wk. 1....190.2......14.86......161.94........28.26
Wk. 2
Wk. 3
Final


Weekly Summary:

Week 1:
(+): decrease rest between sets, increased libido, increased drive and motivation in the gym
(-): lethargy, increased thirst, increased urination

Week 2:

Week 3:

Week 4:


Final Review:

The havoc should really start kicking in during week 2. Log is looking very nice celc.

 

[DBinMD]

Considering the medications, I want to hesitate to give you advice because I'm certainly not a physician.

Celc,

Don’t worry about it, know I need to listen to my doctor. So far I’m happy with what he prescribed, I’m just looking at all the possibilies. My wife doesn’t like her’s. Her beta blocker won’t let her heart rate go into the cardio zone (it suppresses adrenaline).

How did you dose the HB? I find that formestane DOES elevate my BP and it takes 1.5-2g HB to combat that. The majority suggest lower dosages, and quite frankly, it just doesn't cut it.

As a side note, I suspect that aggressively dosing taurine might help with BP, in the 10g range. I've done some very rudimentory research to look for evidence to support my suspician but never really found anything. It would be a relatively inexpensive experiment to run, even if it didn't help you.

Finally, I've noticed that light to moderate intensity underwater swimming for 20 minutes 4x/wk dropped my systolic FIFTEEN mm in only 2-3 weeks last summer!!!

I tried Now Foods HB 1.65 grams/day for 30 days. I did AI cycle support half strength for a couple months, too. The PB didn’t move 1 point. If taurine is a diuretic it may be worth trying since diuretics are usually prescribed, too.

It takes a lot of trial and error. A few weeks ago we went to the Jersey Shore for a week. I left all my supps at home to see if something I was taking was keeping it high. The surprise was it went up instead of down. So now I’m guessing my Alcar and R-ALA has something to do with keeping it lower.

Finally, I've noticed that light to moderate intensity underwater swimming for 20 minutes 4x/wk dropped my systolic FIFTEEN mm in only 2-3 weeks last summer!!!

I didn’t do any cardio that week either. So maybe the cardio has an effect on our systolic, too.

 

[Trauma1]

Celc,

Don’t worry about it, know I need to listen to my doctor. So far I’m happy with what he prescribed, I’m just looking at all the possibilies. My wife doesn’t like her’s. Her beta blocker won’t let her heart rate go into the cardio zone (it suppresses adrenaline).



I tried Now Foods HB 1.65 grams/day for 30 days. I did AI cycle support half strength for a couple months, too. The PB didn’t move 1 point. If taurine is a diuretic it may be worth trying since diuretics are usually prescribed, too.

It takes a lot of trial and error. A few weeks ago we went to the Jersey Shore for a week. I left all my supps at home to see if something I was taking was keeping it high. The surprise was it went up instead of down. So now I’m guessing my Alcar and R-ALA has something to do with keeping it lower.


I didn’t do any cardio that week either. So maybe the cardio has an effect on our systolic, too.

What is she taking, Metoprolol?

 

[celc5]

Dbin, all are good points. I wish I had more to offer in the realm of BP info but that's about all I got brotha. My BP is typically 135/80 when I'm not doing cardio ever since I was 18. When I add in cardio, I'm 120/80 and swimming lowered it the fastest. So I do agree that cardio affects systolic.

Since you mentioned it, what are your thoughts on the ALCAR?

 

[thebigt]

hey celc, pm sent. you got to hear this.

 

[DBinMD]

What is she taking, Metoprolol?

Atenolol, I think it's 50mg

Since you mentioned it, what are your thoughts on the ALCAR?

I don’t get dramatic effects. It’s kind of like creatine: it might help, it’s cheap (bulk at NP), no bad side effects, and is supposed to help with BP.
BTW, nice log.

 

[celc5]

BigT, thanks for the heads up in the pm.

Dbin, is the ALCAR tasteless and what dosages do you personally find effective. I might throw it into my post cycle plan if you convince me that it's worth it.

Day 11

Havoc 30
Furaz 200 (last day of frontload was day 8)

At first I was thinking that the frontload experiment wasn't quite worth it. However, after sifting through some more Havoc logs on various boards, I'm not seeing this low of an epithio dosage kick in as fast as it did for me.

To this point, I feel like the Furazadrol is helping this to kick in a little faster (by 3 or 4 days) and instigate some mild strength/lean mass quicker with less risk. If it weren't for the Furaz, I'd probably be in the 50+ mg of epithio right now. So, I also have a feeling that suppression is going to end up being very mild when it's all said and done.

Today was a chest workout. In similar fashion to my back workout, I increased from 3 to 5 or 6 reps on my heavy work. Endurance and mood in the gym are fantastic and making workouts fun. This is my hobby and fun workouts are 50% of the equation for me (in addition to looking good for the ladies). I do dose 20mg Havoc about 45 minutes preworkout btw and I think the preworkout dose plays a small role in those aforementioned effects.

I give a thumbsup to this super mild cycle so far :thumbsup:

 

[DBinMD]

Dbin, is the ALCAR tasteless and what dosages do you personally find effective. I might throw it into my post cycle plan if you convince me that it's worth it.

To me, the taste is somewhat citric, maybe like a mild lemon; definitely, not as bad tasting as a lot of stuff like GABA or BCAA’s. It would probably mix with water or juice. I mix it with a little left-over choline and stuff as much as can into a 000 cap, about 1.4-1.5 grams.
Whether it’s worth it, well, like I said before, it’s more about anecdotal evidence. Like vitamins and creatine, I don’t know for sure but the possible benefits outweigh the effort and expense.

... chest workout. In similar fashion to my back workout, I increased from 3 to 5 or 6 reps on my heavy work.
I give a thumbsup to this super mild cycle so far :thumbsup:

From 3 reps to 5 or 6 in 11 days, hard to beat. I’ll give it :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[celc5]

Day 12

Yesterday was day 12. I did 20 minutes of HIIT on the TM followed by a brutal leg workout. My legs are sore somethin fierce today!

My legs typically progress strength wise no matter what strategies I use. So I don't really have a comment to make in regards to the cycle effects on my leg day.

Sides wise, I'm having some very minor lower back discomfort which I suspect to be the beginning of mild back pumps. Negligable and nothing compared to halo back pumps at this point.

After the workout, my friends were pleasantly surprised when I volunteered to be the designated driver for the Linkin Park concert. Chris Cornell was the opening act and most definately stole the show. He played the typical Soundgarden and Audioslave tracks that you'd expect. During "Black Hole Sun" he walked through the crowd and my girl elbowed her way through the masses to sing a few lyrics with Mr. Cornell. Good times for sure

Today is day 13. It's an off day for a family reunion. I have a very tight-knit family so this should be another fun day.

 

[celc5]

Week 2 Update

Post #2 updated with current stats and pros/cons of week #2.

Body comp numbers are sliding. I attribute this to a few sloppy meals this week and had nothing to do with training intensity or consistancy. Being on cycle, I'd expect some leeway with a few "cheat" meals per week and still see comp go in a positive direction. The way I look in the mirror reflects the poor numbers, so I don't think it's a mis-calculation.

Current numbers:
Weight 195.2
Bodyfat 16.73%

 

[celc5]

Day 15

Increased Havoc dosage to 40mg.

Shoulders workout today was excellent. Endurance and recovery between sets remains above average. I'm feeling some mild cramping in the rotator cuff and feet, which might be an indicator that I should increase my taurine dosage a little more.

Libido was through the roof today. I got in a quicky preworkout. Ironically, sexual activity tends to decrease my workout performance while it wakes my girl up. She did 35's on shoulder presses today for 6 reps, which I think is pretty impressive for a skinny little girl :lol:

I'm torn between finishing out this cycle as planned for an easy recovery or bridging into Superdrol starting day 22. If I bridge, I'd add in B6 and powerful at night for prolactin prevention. I'd also add in a low dose mix of TD formestane/trione. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

 

[Trauma1]

Day 15

Increased Havoc dosage to 40mg.

Shoulders workout today was excellent. Endurance and recovery between sets remains above average. I'm feeling some mild cramping in the rotator cuff and feet, which might be an indicator that I should increase my taurine dosage a little more.

Libido was through the roof today. I got in a quicky preworkout. Ironically, sexual activity tends to decrease my workout performance while it wakes my girl up. She did 35's on shoulder presses today for 6 reps, which I think is pretty impressive for a skinny little girl :lol:

I'm torn between finishing out this cycle as planned for an easy recovery or bridging into Superdrol starting day 22. If I bridge, I'd add in B6 and powerful at night for prolactin prevention. I'd also add in a low dose mix of TD formestane/trione. Any thoughts or opinions would be
appreciated.

I had thought about a bridge into superdrol. It may workout pretty good. I think the powerful and B6 added in would workout great.

In all honesty though, i would save the superdrol for a different bridge. Maybe a phera/superdrol combo. I just think (as with havoc) they both would either stack better with, or be preceeded by something more "wet" in nature.

I have a Havoc/X-mass cycle to start anyday now. I've also debated using superdrol instead of the havoc. Either should stack well and counter the wet nature of the x-mass.

 

[celc5]

Maybe a phera/superdrol combo. I just think (as with havoc) they both would either stack better with, or be preceeded by something more "wet" in nature.

I see your point. I was kicking myself when I decided to extend my phera cycle for a few extra weeks rather than bridging into Havoc or SD.

Another thought that I have is extending this cycle with epi/propadrol which I have in my stash. If results are more impressive this week in terms of lean mass, simply ramping to 50mg epithio (with double dosed prop) would probably be a more healthy choice than the SD bridge.

If results are lagging even at 40mg, then I'll bridge into SD. It would be about a 5 day bridge at 10mg and then going to 20mg once the Havoc and Furaz run out.

Day 16

Back and Bis workout was excellent. Power with deadlifts did increase today, just not as impressively as it did the first 2 weeks. Similarly, most of my other lifts increased just slightly, yet less impressively than last week.

Overall, I feel strong but soft on this stack. I've really made an effort to count all my carbs and take cardio more seriously this week. Neither carb intake nor cardio played much of a role in my other cycles, so I'm hoping this adjustment will clear up the lack of body comp progress to this point. Protein intake has been at 350g steadily throughout the cycle. Training intensity has been spot on, and is the most impressive aspect of this stack so far.

I'm looking forward to skinfold measures this weekend. They will help me determine whether to end the cycle as planned at 26 days, extend the cycle with Epi/Propadrol, or to bridge into my first AX Superdrol run.

Just a side note that has not been discussed in my log but has been on my mind for about the last 7 days... I feel 100% better on this cycle than I have during any other oral cycle that I've ran and I credit it to my liver support. I'm using 400mg SamE with a B-complex every evening about 4 hours after my last methyl dosage. In hindsight, I've felt like crap on all of my other cycles while using Cycle Support, and suspect liver stress to have played a role during those cycles.

 

[thebigt]

samE and hawthorn are both very good.

 

[celc5]

samE and hawthorn are both very good.

I also suspect the SamE is helping to protect my joints. The common issues that I saw when sifting through epithio logs were joint problems and BP. I tend to be joint sensitive any time estrogen is lowered, so the SamE and ballpark 9-12g fish oil seems to be doing the trick.

I don't seem to be sensitive to BP reactions on cycle. But I'm dosing the HB in the moderate to high range because it's cheap and not something that I'd risk anyway.

Another note about the SD bridge, I'd probably also add niacin for cholesterol. Also, the serm in my stash is torem, chosen mostly because of it's reputation for cholesterol management in case I ran the Superdrol at some point.

 

[celc5]

Day 18

Chest and tris workout today. I'm pretty sure I hit PRs for flat DB bench and BB Inclines as well. I added TEN POUNDS to my BB incline in the 10 rep range. That's the biggest jump I can remember having on that movement in years :head:

Libido is OUTRAGEOUS on this stack. I credit Havoc because sexual performance is unusually enhanced about 40 minutes after dosing. It's very noticable and consistently occurs with 2cap dosages. Libido enhancement is comparable to formestane and slightly better than ejaculoid, paravol, and vitrix (which are all effective supplements for me).

Lethargy is getting annoying so I've been stimming for early work days. I've noticed decreased load size and some very mild testicular atrophy this week. I'm having some mild irritability this week with the 40mg dosages of Havoc. Very mild bacne popped up this week as well.

No hair shedding noticed. I use Nizarol AD (otc version) 3x/week, but I suspect shedding wouldn't be an issue anyway.

Overall, I'm loving the quality of workouts on this stack. I'm pissed at the lack of lean mass gains though. None of the sides are worth mentioning in summary as they are as mild as mild can be.

 

[thebigt]

Day 18

Chest and tris workout today. I'm pretty sure I hit PRs for flat DB bench and BB Inclines as well. I added TEN POUNDS to my BB incline in the 10 rep range. That's the biggest jump I can remember having on that movement in years :head:

Libido is OUTRAGEOUS on this stack. I credit Havoc because sexual performance is unusually enhanced about 40 minutes after dosing. It's very noticable and consistently occurs with 2cap dosages. Libido enhancement is comparable to formestane and slightly better than ejaculoid, paravol, and vitrix (which are all effective supplements for me).

Lethargy is getting annoying so I've been stimming for early work days. I've noticed decreased load size and some very mild testicular atrophy this week. I'm having some mild irritability this week with the 40mg dosages of Havoc. Very mild bacne popped up this week as well.

No hair shedding noticed. I use Nizarol AD (otc version) 3x/week, but I suspect shedding wouldn't be an issue anyway.

Overall, I'm loving the quality of workouts on this stack. I'm pissed at the lack of lean mass gains though. None of the sides are worth mentioning in summary as they are as mild as mild can be.

day 18, kinda surprised you haven't put on some mass.

 

[celc5]

day 18, kinda surprised you haven't put on some mass.

Agreed. I blame myself though for choosing a poor combination of compounds for my goals. At this point, I feel that Furaz may have potential in muscle preservation cutting stacks. But does not fit recomp or lean mass goals. My Havoc dosages are too skimpy as well. I should have just went with 2 bottles of Havoc and started off right at 40mg and continued to ramp from there, maybe up to 60 or 70ish range.

That being said, the workouts are fun and the libido enhancement is also fun. I also foresee an easy recovery unless I bridge into SD. I feel I'm well prepared either way, so bring it on :head:

Day 19

Leg workout today. Workout was great as expected even with strict progression of preworkout HIIT intensity. With more attention to my cardio plan, I'm slowly correcting the fatty blunder from last week. I hope to see some better numbers come skinfolds this weekend.

I typically progress leg strength regularly as I'm unusually strong in that department. So there wasn't anything out of the ordinary to mention today in terms of strength.

 

[celc5]

Week 3 Summary

Post #2 is updated with statistical progression and weekly pros/cons. I did see almost THREE POUND increase in lean mass this week. That is one of the most productive on cycle gains I've ever had. I credit that to the increased Havoc dosage to 40mg.

Post #1 is updated with bridging plans. Even though week 3 was productive with the epithio, I still plan to bridge to Superdrol tomorrow. In the past, I've felt that extending my cycle lengths with the same compound has had diminished results in weeks 4 and 5.

I believe the superdrol bridge week will be 5 days at 10mg added to the current stack. Day 27 will end the Havoc/Furaz portion of the cycle and SD dosage will increase to 20mg. Depending on sides, I foresee the SD cycle to last in the ballpark of 15 days total. I will also be adding B6, powerful, and tyrosine for prolactin prevention. TD formestane/trione combo at a low dose will be added for gyno prevention and to maintain libido (again with prevention in mind).

 

[celc5]

Day 22

Supderdrol 10mg
Havoc 40mg
Furazadrol 200mg
TD trione/formestane 80mg each (approximately)

All hell broke loose today! I'm talking crazy pumps, hardness, and strength! Every meal feels productive, every lift was strong and authoratative.

I credit the strong day the addition of TD trione/formestane. Both kick in rather quickly for me as I've run both several times. I also suspect that the 10mg Superdrol MIGHT also be wreaking some havoc. But wouldn't it to be too soon for that :think:

IF it's the Superdrol kicking in arleady already, I might just keep it at 10mg while stacking with an extra bottle of epi once havoc runs out. This quick production certainly creates the good kind of dilemma for me in regards to continuation of the cycle. I'm picturing about 30-40 days total for this cycle so as not to get too crazy with my first bridge.

Sides wise, I'm a bit grumpy. Also libido feels a bit "flat" today comparatively to the rest of the cycle. I had an active weekend sexually so I might just need a day to recharge and don't suspect this to be a major issue yet.

 

[Trauma1]

Day 22

Supderdrol 10mg
Havoc 40mg
Furazadrol 200mg
TD trione/formestane 80mg each (approximately)

All hell broke loose today! I'm talking crazy pumps, hardness, and strength! Every meal feels productive, every lift was strong and authoratative.

I credit the strong day the addition of TD trione/formestane. Both kick in rather quickly for me as I've run both several times. I also suspect that the 10mg Superdrol MIGHT also be wreaking some havoc. But wouldn't it to be too soon for that :think:

IF it's the Superdrol already, I might just keep it at 10mg while stacking with an extra bottle of epi once havoc runs out. This quick production certainly creates the good kind of dilemma for me in regards to continuation of the cycle. I'm picturing about 30-40 days total for this cycle so as not to get too crazy with my first bridge.

Sides wise, I'm a bit grumpy. Also libido feels a bit "flat" today comparatively to the rest of the cycle.

Interesting celc. I hope you have great gains in the coming weeks with this. I agree that starting havoc at the 40mg range may have been a better fit for you.

I'm following along bud, good luck!

 

[NasD]

I can't wait to see what the addition of Superdrol does for you. I think the best part of this cycle is yet to come, both strength and LBM-wise.

 

[thebigt]

nice job buddy, keep it up.:thumbsup:

 

[celc5]

Interesting celc. I hope you have great gains in the coming weeks with this. I agree that starting havoc at the 40mg range may have been a better fit for you.

I'm following along bud, good luck!

Trauma, Havoc is the real deal. But milder than I anticipated. I think starting at 30 was ok. It's just that second week was real stagnant, where an increase to 40 would have been more productive IMO. I know you have a lot of logs to sift through but your occasional posts here are always insightful and appreciated :cheers:

I can't wait to see what the addition of Superdrol does for you. I think the best part of this cycle is yet to come, both strength and LBM-wise.

I wanted to bridge like this to SD during my phera cycle. But, made a poor decision and just extended the cycle. NasD, if you have any input to offer or questions, feel free to jump in bro. You always instigate good intelligent discussion.

nice job buddy, keep it up.:thumbsup:

Thanks for following T! I'm taking your on cycle AI philosophy to heart with the SD bridge. I have a hunch that the formestane is going to tame the SD beast... ROAR!!!!

Day 23

Back and Bis workout today with an exceptional pump. Overall muscle fullness is fantastic. I think I see some widening of the lats as well! Woo Hoo! That's certainly a weak point for me. Strength gains weren't as impressive as they were last week. But the workout was fun, productive, strict, and focused.

Something I haven't mentioned is an overall "tightening" effect to the chest region. Even though bf has crept up just slightly, it's NOT in the chest region where I usually tend to carry a lot of fat. I can see Havoc being used at a low to moderate dose alongside tren, SD, or phera in terms of gyno protection and a bit of extra strength.

The length and effectiveness of the bridge will probably depend on sexual performance as the dosage increases. I can deal with all the other sides but sexual disfunction is unacceptable. If I'm able to keep my girl happy, the SD run will be 2 or 3 weeks alongside the AI's.

 

[NasD]

celc, I think you stated in another thread/log somewhere but I can't readily find the post. Why do you change to HST during PCT? Also, have you ever tried DC?

PS - I love the "libido reports" in your logs, lmao. Most logs skip these details but less face it, that sh*t matters!

 

[celc5]

celc, I think you stated in another thread/log somewhere but I can't readily find the post. Why do you change to HST during PCT? Also, have you ever tried DC?

PS - I love the "libido reports" in your logs, lmao. Most logs skip these details but less face it, that sh*t matters!

Nas, when I was preparing for my first cycle, I kept reading over and over how psycholigically depressing it was to see strength go down when the exogenous hormone was removed. Therefore, I decided right off the bat that a routine change for pct just makes sense to avoid ever seeing the numbers dwindle.

The reason for choosing HST is 3 fold. It allows for the aforementioned routine change. Second, it strictly controls overall volume, which I strongly feel is necessary during pct to prevent overtraining. Finally, it's a routine that I've enjoyed off-cycle and demands progression even without hormones.

No I've never tried DC. I'm aware that it generally has positive feedback but I haven't honestly given much time into studying that training philosophy.

Regarding libido, it's just another one of the common sides that needs mentioned. When I do my final review, I'll be sure to talk about how I had no shedding, acne, or mood swings on this cycle as well. Also to give credit where credit is due, one of the first logs that I ever read on the boards was the Poopypants epi log. I've stolen a lot of his ideas in my own logs inlcuding discussion of sides including libido.

 

[NasD]

Wow, excellent point! Thanks for the well informed answer. Reps.

I kept reading over and over how psycholigically depressing it was to see strength go down when the exogenous hormone was removed. Therefore, I decided right off the bat that a routine change for pct just makes sense to avoid ever seeing the numbers dwindle.

 

[Ziquor]

I'm a bit late but damn Celc, I forgot how fine your logs were :thumbsup: Gotta love the summary updates in the beginning.

 

[celc5]

Wow, excellent point! Thanks for the well informed answer. Reps.

Much appreciated bro. On the flip side, I sometimes get made fun of for overthinking :think: Ha Ha

I'm a bit late but damn Celc, I forgot how fine your logs were :thumbsup: Gotta love the summary updates in the beginning.

Thanks for the compliment. I've always liked logs with summaries so you don't have to read every silly post. I like to chit chat in my logs so let's save people the agony of my big mouth

Day 25

Havoc 40
Furaz 200
SD 10
Form/trione 40 or 80ish each

Chest and tris. Early in the workout, power and strength were great and i think the SD is kicking in a bit. I sort of zonked toward the end of the workout, which is the first time during this entire cycle.

Libido is up up and away! Formestane is my absolute favorite! It always has been, always will be :head:

No nipple sensations so far. The prevention experiment with B6 and Powerful is working well. Oh and sleep is great with Powerfull at only 2 caps per night. I'll be running it 5 on 2 off to be sure it remains effective in enhancing sleep quality.

 

[Ziquor]

I agree I love summary posts. Since your over 3 weeks in, how does Havoc 'feel' compared to Phera? People always used to compare the 2 since they're somewhat close chemically.

 

[NasD]

Well celc, I say it's a compliment when people accuse you of overthinking...much better than the opposite! :cheers:

It really is interesting to me how we all respond different to these compounds. After reading so much from you and BigT I first tried Nutra formestane and mixed it myself and then tried e-Form thinking maybe I screwed something up. For me lower estrogen = lowered libido and some lethargy if I dose high. I just auctioned my other eForm since it doesn't treat me as nice as it does you celc.

 

[celc5]

I agree I love summary posts. Since your over 3 weeks in, how does Havoc 'feel' compared to Phera? People always used to compare the 2 since they're somewhat close chemically.

Both are very "smooth" feeling substances compared to Halodrol. I had irritability and aggressive outbusrts with Halo.

Strength was equally impressive for all 3 compounds. But lean mass was easiest to gain on Halo.

I had the same propensity to look soft and gain fat on both Phera and Havoc. Phera was the harshest in terms of suppressive feeling, but I still think it was still minimal.

The confounding variable is that I used SamE as my liver support this time around. The SamE does help with mood for me so it's possible that it was deciding factor on making Havoc feel less aggressive.

Well celc, I say it's a compliment when people accuse you of overthinking...much better than the opposite! :cheers:

It really is interesting to me how we all respond different to these compounds. After reading so much from you and BigT I first tried Nutra formestane and mixed it myself and then tried e-Form thinking maybe I screwed something up. For me lower estrogen = lowered libido and some lethargy if I dose high. I just auctioned my other eForm since it doesn't treat me as nice as it does you celc.

Interesting. The only explanation that I have to offer is a theory that Dr.D relayed to me when I didn't respond to form in pct. It's well known that form blocks dht conversion and has prostate protective properties. This is fine when ON or when natty hormonal levels are all in check. However, during pct when natural test is suppressed to whatever degree, blocking dht is counter-productive. Is it possible that you hadn't fully recovered from a previous cycle?

 

[slow-mun]

I actually would not be surprised if SAM-e reduced the potency of Havoc in this cycle. I have long suspected that it has been doing the same to me. I plan on running an identical cycle to what I have previously run before, but without SAM-e. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[celc5]

I actually would not be surprised if SAM-e reduced the potency of Havoc in this cycle. I have long suspected that it has been doing the same to me. I plan on running an identical cycle to what I have previously run before, but without SAM-e. I'll let you know how it goes.

I see your point. So you're thinking the liver protection interfered with methylation absorption processes. I dosed my methyls at 730am and 4pm. I dosed my SamE at 9 or 930pm. Maybe you're thinking the supposed 4hr rule didn't help?

Do you think the SamE interfered with the potency of the nonmethyl sol? I'm not sure I've heard of any issues in that regard, but I'd be willing to listen if you had any ideas/theories.

Edit: since we're talking about liver protection, I suspect milk thistle and/or salymarin to be completely innefective in liver protection. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Ziquor]

Celc that's great to hear about the Halo. Too many newbs get on the scene and think halo's crap since the average person may add 8 pounds of lean mass as opposed to 12+ with Superdrol. But they're not considering how easy the muscle is to maintain and the lack of sides/shutdown with Halo.

Interesting theorys with the SAMe. I've heard much of the same about milk thistle while ON cycle. When I ran my Halo I dosed at 10am & 4pm then I took liver support at about midnight/before bed. I can't really say if there was any interactions but I figured at least that protocol would minimize them if there were.

 

[thebigt]

I see your point. So you're thinking the liver protection interfered with methylation absorption processes. I dosed my methyls at 730am and 4pm. I dosed my SamE at 9 or 930pm. Maybe you're thinking the supposed 4hr rule didn't help?

Do you think the SamE interfered with the potency of the nonmethyl sol? I'm not sure I've heard of any issues in that regard, but I'd be willing to listen if you had any ideas/theories.

Edit: since we're talking about liver protection, I suspect milk thistle and/or salymarin to be completely innefective in liver protection. But that's just my opinion.

bite your tongue about the milk thistle. i have high liver values from years of excessive drinking, when i am taking milk thistle values go down. not talking bout during cycle or pct but just as a health supp. i have a lot of faith in milk thistle. samE is great but don't undervalue milk thistle.

 

[Ziquor]

bite your tongue about the milk thistle. i have high liver values from years of excessive drinking, when i am taking milk thistle values go down. not talking bout during cycle or pct but just as a health supp. i have a lot of faith in milk thistle. samE is great but don't undervalue milk thistle.

That's interesting, I've read some great studies about milk thistle but they all typically state that it was ineffective for fighting liver issues related to alcohol abuse.

One thing about silymarin is price. Milk Thistle's pretty inexpensive but SAMe isn't at a dose of 400mg twice a day. I've never seen SAMe being sold with more than 30 400mg tabs (or 60 200mg tabs)

 

[NasD]

I guess it's possible but I highly doubt it. Reason being is that I've only done 1 cycle and that was AX SD back in January. I dosed a 10mg for 3 days and 20mg for 11 days. PCT was with Torem. Had to cut short due to the pinched nerve that resulted in the disc fusion that I mentioned earlier. That's why my guess is that I just don't respond as well.

Is it possible that you hadn't fully recovered from a previous cycle?

 

[thebigt]

That's interesting, I've read some great studies about milk thistle but they all typically state that it was ineffective for fighting liver issues related to alcohol abuse.

One thing about silymarin is price. Milk Thistle's pretty inexpensive but SAMe isn't at a dose of 400mg twice a day. I've never seen SAMe being sold with more than 30 400mg tabs (or 60 200mg tabs)

ive been sober for 13 years so it may be that liver values are naturally high, but truth is i get tested for liver values 2xyear and they are consistently better when i have been taking milk thistle on a regular basis.

 

[celc5]

Ziquor, yes Halo was AWESOME! I was a newb on the scene running mediocre nha stacks when theBigT helped me immensely in choosing Halo :thumbsup:

BigT, that's some good feedback with bloodwork. Do you use milk thistle or a standardized salymarin? What brand do you use?

Ziquor, agreed. My opinion was based on the lack of evidence in the studies and the strong "methyl flu" symptoms that I got with phera and halo. The studies pointed me toward SamE, and yes it's expensive. I pick up a truckload when it goes on sale BOGO at the local RiteAide

NasD, hope all is well with the post op recovery. That sounds like a real bicth to have to deal with.

Day 26

Today was an off day. I usually don't post a specific update on off days but I'd like to report a mistake that I made last night.

I dosed my formestane/trione too late and a bit overzealously. I usually dose about 2ml 2x/day. But I think I got closer to 4 last night. I got an aggressive rush and palpitations that I would normally LOVE from this combo. But it severely interfered with sleep. I nailed my girl twice last night and still woke up horny in the middle of the night. I can't figure out why people don't run this combo alongside compounds that have libido killing reputations :think:

Finally, I look absolutely huge! I look just a tad soft but vascularity is noticable in the arms and I do have a bit of an "on steroids" phoney muscle fullness. ...SWEET!!! :head:

 

[Ziquor]

Ziquor, yes Halo was AWESOME! I was a newb on the scene running mediocre nha stacks when theBigT helped me immensely in choosing Halo :thumbsup:

BigT, that's some good feedback with bloodwork. Do you use milk thistle or a standardized salymarin? What brand do you use?

Ziquor, agreed. My opinion was based on the lack of evidence in the studies and the strong "methyl flu" symptoms that I got with phera and halo. The studies pointed me toward SamE, and yes it's expensive. I pick up a truckload when it goes on sale BOGO at the local RiteAide

NasD, hope all is well with the post op recovery. That sounds like a real bicth to have to deal with.

Day 26

Today was an off day. I usually don't post a specific update on off days but I'd like to report a mistake that I made last night.

I dosed my formestane/trione too late and a bit overzealously. I usually dose about 2ml 2x/day. But I think I got closer to 4 last night. I got an aggressive rush and palpitations that I would normally LOVE from this combo. But it severely interfered with sleep. I nailed my girl twice last night and still woke up horny in the middle of the night. I can't figure out why people don't run this combo alongside compounds that have libido killing reputations :think:

Finally, I look absolutely huge! I look just a tad soft but vascularity is noticable in the arms and I do have a bit of an "on steroids" phoney muscle fullness. ...SWEET!!! :head:

Great job Celc this cycle's going great. BTW why didn't you tell me about the BOGO at the local RiteAide? Damn It must have been in the Robinson area

 

[thebigt]

great to hear of your progress celc, i really enjoy our sharing of info. you have come a long way since running jw/bam. real progress you are making. btw i use liv-a-new by puritans pride. my mom gave me first bottle and it worked so well i have stuck with it. sometimes i add extra milk thistle to it [generic from cvs]. i was taking liv-a-new for 3 months before the first amazing bloodwork results came back. you have to take it on a regular basis, don't expect overnight results. good luck, celc. give it hell.:thumbsup:

 

[celc5]

Looks like I have a neighbor with Ziquor :cheers: pm is on the way

BigT, that ALRI stack was such a dud, but it was fun as hell to do that log though. Another thing that made the ALRI stack so disappointing was how well that 6oxo run went that I logged on BN. I expected AT LEAST similar results. Little did I know at the time the time that formestane and trione were so much more potent than the broski-favorites

Day 27

Superdrol 20
Form/trione

I'm farely satisfied, now that my Havoc run is complete. I will gather my thoughts and be sure to honestly list pros/cons once the cycle is over. The biggest mistake that I can see is that I waited too long to ramp to 40mg. I should have ran 30/40/50 with the bridge slightly sooner.

Today was legs day. I crashed about 60 minutes into the workout again, even after sleeping a good 11 hours last night. Strength gains have been mediocre at best the last few days, but I do expect some progress once the 20mg has time to kick in.

Sexual performance was fantastic this morning. I'm usually not generous enough to go 2 back to back rounds because I don't want to spoil my girl But, she got lucky 2 times this morning thanks to the fancy AI combo.

Mild testicular atrophy continues but nothing to panic over. No other outward side effects to note.

On a note related to the Powerfull, I dose it 5on 2off. Last night was an off night and I woke up with very mild abnormal sensations. Nothing sharp, just occasional pins and needles. I'm glad I'll have Powerfull in my post cycle arsenal this time around to be sure nothing progresses in a negative direction.