does god exist

[Zero V]

Can't you just ask him where he came from? Or does he want to hide that info for some reason?

I've never seen or heard of any documented "healing", but if you can point me in the right direction I'd love to see it.

Go to a revival. But we have a man at our church who tore the tendons in his knee and destroyed his knee cap. X-rays showed that surgery was needed, he wouldnt do it, he had the church pray for him. Results? He had X-rays again and the knee was perfect, healthy as if nothing ever happened. Doctor was a little confused.

Look around, there is tons of evidence of healing, but the news is NOT ALLOWED to post, show, or support it. The government forbids it.

Down in Florida there is a huge revival on, I will find the name of it if I can from church. Healings are happening like crazy.

You can actually watch video I believe of a church in Africa that has it's walls lined with crutches and wheelchairs where people come in cripples and walk out whole.

The reason people dont know about these things is because the media doesnt show it, and in a world where the only things people learn come from CNN it doesnt show up.

I will ask my friend if I can get some of his supportive proofs such as that video, which you people will diss because its a video and you will just yell*he is faking it* and so on.

You have to remember, religion got kicked down on the ground and is pinned at the moment by our culture.

 

[bassgod272]

Weird little side info. Science is starting to think that things are held together by vibration. Which is basically what changes things in physical states. Matter is either solid, liquid, or gas depending on how fast it is vibrating. Sound is vibration correct?

In the Bible it says God SPOKE the world into existence, as in the sound of his voice.

Weird how the farther science goes the more things line up wtih a 2000 year old book. Ever read revelations? Do so and look at the world, prediction after prediction are coming true...from a 2000 year old book.

BTW read back in the posts from yesterday and so on. People asked about dinosaurs and all kinds of things and I gave anwsers...how did I not anwser anything. Usually it is the christians who run in circles and say the same things over and over.... this time its vice versa.

ever heard of the mayans? they too have predicted these things and existed BEFORE christ AND the bible. also, history repeats itself. so god said "universe; exist." then poof it came into existance? lol. how does a voice come from nothing and actually create words that will in turn, create EVERYTHING?

 

[Alexander]

if you cannot believe that something had to come from nothing, how the hell can you believe that God CREATED EVERYTHING from NOTHING? INCLUDING HIMSELF? are these healings that you speak of, the ones on tv where there is a crowd of 100 people. the preacher calls on specific people to tell a story of them being deaf, blind, etc. slaps them on the forehead, makes them fall backward, and they are instantly healed? if so, it's all bullsh!t. my uncle is blind. he goes to church multiple times per week, believes in God, prays, has others pray for him including the pastor of the church, and he is still blind. fvck your healings and miracles.

People that believe in this "healings and miracles" rubbish are batsh*t crazy in my book. Why would God be so selective in who he helped. Certainly a parapalegic with cancer deserves help, right?

 

[Zero V]

if you cannot believe that something had to come from nothing, how the hell can you believe that God CREATED EVERYTHING from NOTHING? INCLUDING HIMSELF? are these healings that you speak of, the ones on tv where there is a crowd of 100 people. the preacher calls on specific people to tell a story of them being deaf, blind, etc. slaps them on the forehead, makes them fall backward, and they are instantly healed? if so, it's all bullsh!t. my uncle is blind. he goes to church multiple times per week, believes in God, prays, has others pray for him including the pastor of the church, and he is still blind. fvck your healings and miracles.

Nice to notice the christian gets cussed at, typical...every other post seems to have it... You know cussing shows a lack in vocab and intelligence? Your psychologists say so.... so if according to you they are right....

Anyhow. The holy spirit must do the healing, and the people praying must believe in God for the healing. If you have a bunch of chrisitians praying over someone who arent sure its going to happen, and if he isnt sure himself, it wont happen.

I have been healed before, therefore I know its real.

If the people praying over him are like "if God wills it, heal this man" and "We pray you heal him god, if it is what you want". Jesus said we have AUTHORITY over our bodies. Therefore we cast out the sickness and infirmities through discipline and assurity. In the name of Jesus Christ this IS done, and you ARE healed. Not "IF".... Does he really believe God will heal him? Or is he just "if it happens that would be nice"...

Not every church has healings, Some churches serve a diff purpose in Gods kingdom. Some are to be lighthouses and reach the unsaved, some are for healing, others are for spiritual warefare, others for mentoring...

Are you so sure of people in white coats who change their "facts" every 2 years because the found out they were wrong before? Christians dont change...havent, wont, dont need to. God is the same yesterday,today, and tommorow.

 

[bassgod272]

Go to a revival. But we have a man at our church who tore the tendons in his knee and destroyed his knee cap. X-rays showed that surgery was needed, he wouldnt do it, he had the church pray for him. Results? He had X-rays again and the knee was perfect, healthy as if nothing ever happened. Doctor was a little confused.

Look around, there is tons of evidence of healing, but the news is NOT ALLOWED to post, show, or support it. The government forbids it.

Down in Florida there is a huge revival on, I will find the name of it if I can from church. Healings are happening like crazy.

You can actually watch video I believe of a church in Africa that has it's walls lined with crutches and wheelchairs where people come in cripples and walk out whole.

The reason people dont know about these things is because the media doesnt show it, and in a world where the only things people learn come from CNN it doesnt show up.

I will ask my friend if I can get some of his supportive proofs such as that video, which you people will diss because its a video and you will just yell*he is faking it* and so on.

You have to remember, religion got kicked down on the ground and is pinned at the moment by our culture.

i love how you talk about religion like christianity is the ONLY one that exists. religions have existed ever since humans have been alive. it is NOT being kicked down on the ground. people are just more OPEN MINDED these days and not SCARED into believing in something. they are thinking for themselves. they are not saying "fvck religion, it's for the birds." they are simply thinking for themselves and coming up with their own conclusions about things, rather than listening to guys preach to them who have raped little boys IN CHURCH.

 

[Zero V]

ever heard of the mayans? they too have predicted these things and existed BEFORE christ AND the bible. also, history repeats itself. so god said "universe; exist." then poof it came into existance? lol. how does a voice come from nothing and actually create words that will in turn, create EVERYTHING?

The mayans predicted things, there are many darker spiritual people who have been able to predict manhy a thing. The enemy can give knowledge as well.

I would like to actually think of it more as a song that happened to creat everything.

People are getting almost violent towards me lol.

 

[Zero V]

i love how you talk about religion like christianity is the ONLY one that exists. religions have existed ever since humans have been alive. it is NOT being kicked down on the ground. people are just more OPEN MINDED these days and not SCARED into believing in something. they are thinking for themselves. they are not saying "fvck religion, it's for the birds." they are simply thinking for themselves and coming up with their own conclusions about things, rather than listening to guys preach to them who have raped little boys IN CHURCH.

That is catholics....christianity and catholic arent the same actually....during the Reformation christians broke away from the Catholic Church because it had been corrupted...

Would you prefer a religion that believes a Jihad is a gauranteed entry into paradise? 9/11.....

 

[Alexander]

Nice to notice the christian gets cussed at, typical...every other post seems to have it... You know cussing shows a lack in vocab and intelligence? Your psychologists say so.... so if according to you they are right....

Anyhow. The holy spirit must do the healing, and the people praying must believe in God for the healing. If you have a bunch of chrisitians praying over someone who arent sure its going to happen, and if he isnt sure himself, it wont happen.

I have been healed before, therefore I know its real.

If the people praying over him are like "if God wills it, heal this man" and "We pray you heal him god, if it is what you want". Jesus said we have AUTHORITY over our bodies. Therefore we cast out the sickness and infirmities through discipline and assurity. In the name of Jesus Christ this IS done, and you ARE healed. Not "IF".... Does he really believe God will heal him? Or is he just "if it happens that would be nice"...

Not every church has healings, Some churches serve a diff purpose in Gods kingdom. Some are to be lighthouses and reach the unsaved, some are for healing, others are for spiritual warefare, others for mentoring...

Are you so sure of people in white coats who change their "facts" every 2 years because the found out they were wrong before? Christians dont change...havent, wont, dont need to. God is the same yesterday,today, and tommorow.

This is a scary post IMO. Who gives a sh*t about cussing, do you really think that matters, it's so trivial, please.

So now conveniently some churches don't heal? Bass said that his uncle believes in god and that the pastor of the church is praying for him as well, so why no healings?

Your last paragraph gets to the base of the problem with christians/God. They are unwilling to change their views/admit they may be wrong. Scientists/doctors are always trying to improve and that includes admitting that they are wrong.

 

[bassgod272]

Nice to notice the christian gets cussed at, typical...every other post seems to have it... You know cussing shows a lack in vocab and intelligence? Your psychologists say so.... so if according to you they are right....

Anyhow. The holy spirit must do the healing, and the people praying must believe in God for the healing. If you have a bunch of chrisitians praying over someone who arent sure its going to happen, and if he isnt sure himself, it wont happen.

I have been healed before, therefore I know its real.

If the people praying over him are like "if God wills it, heal this man" and "We pray you heal him god, if it is what you want". Jesus said we have AUTHORITY over our bodies. Therefore we cast out the sickness and infirmities through discipline and assurity. In the name of Jesus Christ this IS done, and you ARE healed. Not "IF".... Does he really believe God will heal him? Or is he just "if it happens that would be nice"...

Not every church has healings, Some churches serve a diff purpose in Gods kingdom. Some are to be lighthouses and reach the unsaved, some are for healing, others are for spiritual warefare, others for mentoring...

Are you so sure of people in white coats who change their "facts" every 2 years because the found out they were wrong before? Christians dont change...havent, wont, dont need to. God is the same yesterday,today, and tommorow.

you are incorrect. cussing actually is a means of verbally expressing anger/frustration. bill gates has cussed and his IQ is much higher than yours. i've taken many IQ tests and mine is respectfully 140. bill gates' is about 150. again, "cuss" you ok, i don't believe that you read what I said. my uncle BELIEVES IN GOD 100%, BELIEVES that he can be healed, the people praying for him BELIEVE IN GOD, and they too, BELIEVE that he can be healed. he is still blind. how were you healed? just curious.

 

[bigironkiller]

DNA cannot change. Evolution is an ideal that was thrown out by its very creator on his deathbed when he realized he was wrong the enitre time and simply misguided by satan.

The only truth is that everyone believes in God eventualy, once your standing in for your judgement...

,

1.DNA can change, ever heard of mutation
2. another superiority claim: everyone believes in god eventually, when standing before judgement

zero, while you still claim to have given answers, you have not. and as far as miraculus cures, the body is a limitless thing can do amazing things.think that a person might be faking an illness then to be cured. and just because someone is miraculous cured doesnt signal god. and you do make yourself out to be superior when you said christians feel sorry for people. and your claim about going to a revival to believe in god, that is total bs. oh and it is cute that you worry about the choices others make, i guess you know the right choices.

 

[bassgod272]

That is catholics....christianity and catholic arent the same actually....during the Reformation christians broke away from the Catholic Church because it had been corrupted...

Would you prefer a religion that believes a Jihad is a gauranteed entry into paradise? 9/11.....

no, it is not just catholics. it is any sick guy who feels the need to do such a thing. i can guarantee you that christians have done it as well. jihad has nothing to do with 9/11, but that is a whole other thread. not getting into that.

 

[bigironkiller]

im guessing you still think heratics should be persecuted. everytime someone has questioned you, you hide behind claims of feeling sorry for people, or how everyone will one day believe when in judgement. what is your simplest answer that you beleives shows god exists????

 

[B5150]

Just because you believe that, doesn't make it true.

A mouthful. No? Likewise a good summary of this thread.

 

[Zero V]

This is a scary post IMO. Who gives a sh*t about cussing, do you really think that matters, it's so trivial, please.

So now conveniently some churches don't heal? Bass said that his uncle believes in god and that the pastor of the church is praying for him as well, so why no healings?

Your last paragraph gets to the base of the problem with christians/God. They are unwilling to change their views/admit they may be wrong. Scientists/doctors are always trying to improve and that includes admitting that they are wrong.

So now that scientists as a whole are moving towards what they call "intelligent design" you will believe it? That is their way of saying God created the universe without saying the word "God".

And its not that we are unwilling to change, we have yet to been proven wrong in our ways and there is nothing wrong that needs changed or improved.

Cussing is an immature show, it is an emotional output that happens because the brain is unable to give restraint to itself. And wouldnt it be ok if I asked not be be cussed at?

Believinging in God is one thing my friend. Even satan believes in God. It goes much deeper than that. Each person is given a measure of faith, and He can be healed. Just the military has the air force, navy, marines, and army, Gods kingdom works in the same. This world has become so corrupt each church specializes in a certain field depending onthe pastor/preacher/ministers/evangilists calling. They work together to further the kingdom.

I show no anger towards you, but I seemd to get it in return. At least it feels like it now. Keeping it civil shouldnt be too hard.

 

[bigironkiller]

no, it is not just catholics. it is any sick guy who feels the need to do such a thing. i can guarantee you that christians have done it as well. jihad has nothing to do with 9/11, but that is a whole other thread. not getting into that.

well said bassgod. there are religious extremeist in every religion. if you have read the bible you will see it has very specifc examples of what to do to nonbelievers. god it seems has a vengful side. also notice that when great evil is done, it is most likely done in the name of a god.

 

[Zero V]

im guessing you still think heratics should be persecuted. everytime someone has questioned you, you hide behind claims of feeling sorry for people, or how everyone will one day believe when in judgement. what is your simplest answer that you beleives shows god exists????

No "heratics" need the most work, not persecuted.

I hide behind nothing, I am 100% open, and just give you who I am. And in turn get time after time of getting slammed with no support on my side.

And the best way to explain God exists for me???

I have felt him, I have been healed, and I have seen the impossible, and I have used the gifts...

I believe I have given everything I have, a long speech in a crowd of people with headphones on and their MP3's cranked up. Listening to the world.

 

[bassgod272]

Nice to notice the christian gets cussed at, typical...every other post seems to have it... You know cussing shows a lack in vocab and intelligence? Your psychologists say so.... so if according to you they are right....

Anyhow. The holy spirit must do the healing, and the people praying must believe in God for the healing. If you have a bunch of chrisitians praying over someone who arent sure its going to happen, and if he isnt sure himself, it wont happen.

I have been healed before, therefore I know its real.

If the people praying over him are like "if God wills it, heal this man" and "We pray you heal him god, if it is what you want". Jesus said we have AUTHORITY over our bodies. Therefore we cast out the sickness and infirmities through discipline and assurity. In the name of Jesus Christ this IS done, and you ARE healed. Not "IF".... Does he really believe God will heal him? Or is he just "if it happens that would be nice"...

Not every church has healings, Some churches serve a diff purpose in Gods kingdom. Some are to be lighthouses and reach the unsaved, some are for healing, others are for spiritual warefare, others for mentoring...

Are you so sure of people in white coats who change their "facts" every 2 years because the found out they were wrong before? Christians dont change...havent, wont, dont need to. God is the same yesterday,today, and tommorow.

as a matter of fact, i AM one of those people in a white coat. i dispense medications that DO TRULY heal people and cure diseases on a daily basis. you show me someone who prays that there blood pressure will lower, because it is naturally high. i will show you a bottle of lisinopril, dyazide, etc. hmmm, i wonder which option the vast majority of people would chose?

 

[bassgod272]

A mouthful. No? Likewise a good summary of this thread.

:clap2:

 

[bigironkiller]

So now that scientists as a whole are moving towards what they call "intelligent design" you will believe it? That is their way of saying God created the universe without saying the word "God".

And its not that we are unwilling to change, we have yet to been proven wrong in our ways and there is nothing wrong that needs changed or improved.

Cussing is an immature show, it is an emotional output that happens because the brain is unable to give restraint to itself. And wouldnt it be ok if I asked not be be cussed at?

Believinging in God is one thing my friend. Even satan believes in God. It goes much deeper than that. Each person is given a measure of faith, and He can be healed. Just the military has the air force, navy, marines, and army, Gods kingdom works in the same. This world has become so corrupt each church specializes in a certain field depending onthe pastor/preacher/ministers/evangilists calling. They work together to further the kingdom.

I show no anger towards you, but I seemd to get it in return. At least it feels like it now. Keeping it civil shouldnt be too hard.

if you are so sensitive that cussing offendes you, just curl up under a bible and pray for the sinners living there lives, because like you said, you know where there going. also cussing is not always an immature response, it is yet another group of words that symbolize human emotion.you cant fault someone for using a word that best expresses his current emotion. people get caught up in the heat of things and cant always think of more articulate ways of speaking, nor should they have too. also just because a discussion isnt civilized doesnt negate its effectiveness. some times a heated no holds barred conversation needs to happen.

 

[Zero V]

well said bassgod. there are religious extremeist in every religion. if you have read the bible you will see it has very specifc examples of what to do to nonbelievers. god it seems has a vengful side. also notice that when great evil is done, it is most likely done in the name of a god.

The OLD testament was harsh on non believers, the New testament gives forgiveness through Christ's blood. God is a gealous and he takes vengance for those who are wronged, so as they do not have to bloody their hands. Christians actually have a pretty clean history. You cant claim the "crusades" because that was a Catholic act.

The earth has to run its course...God has his presence, but the prophecies must be fullfilled. Thus Christianity will be almost completly wiped out in the end...Christians will stand alone, and suffer greatly. Why would I stay in my beliefs if it could run the risk of me being murdered if I wasnt sure it was real? When I go to do missionary work, sometimes the chance of return is 50/50 in some of the countries....

I have something I am willing to die for. Do you? If you have children or a wife most likely, then you will say yes. Do you want me cussing about your wife? Trying to prove she is a bad person? I love God and thats what you do to me. Shall I begin to discrace your wife, or girlfriend, or children? For as real as they are to you, My God is to me. And as you can touch and know them, I can my God.

Tell me what seems right...

 

[bigironkiller]

No "heratics" need the most work, not persecuted.

I hide behind nothing, I am 100% open, and just give you who I am. And in turn get time after time of getting slammed with no support on my side.

And the best way to explain God exists for me???

I have felt him, I have been healed, and I have seen the impossible, and I have used the gifts...

I believe I have given everything I have, a long speech in a crowd of people with headphones on and their MP3's cranked up. Listening to the world.

1.another superiority claim: heritics need the most work. BS
2.i have seen the impossible(unexplainable) and i have gifts(sports, science,etc.) isnt it possible you did all those things

 

[Zero V]

Truth is I cannot convince anyone else here of my beliefs, and no one can convince me otherwise. So now what is the point of anymore conversation, is there not a stalemate in motion?

 

[bigironkiller]

The OLD testament was harsh on non believers, the New testament gives forgiveness through Christ's blood. God is a gealous and he takes vengance for those who are wronged, so as they do not have to bloody their hands. Christians actually have a pretty clean history. You cant claim the "crusades" because that was a Catholic act.

The earth has to run its course...God has his presence, but the prophecies must be fullfilled. Thus Christianity will be almost completly wiped out in the end...Christians will stand alone, and suffer greatly. Why would I stay in my beliefs if it could run the risk of me being murdered if I wasnt sure it was real? When I go to do missionary work, sometimes the chance of return is 50/50 in some of the countries....

I have something I am willing to die for. Do you? If you have children or a wife most likely, then you will say yes. Do you want me cussing about your wife? Trying to prove she is a bad person? I love God and thats what you do to me. Shall I begin to discrace your wife, or girlfriend, or children? For as real as they are to you, My God is to me. And as you can touch and know them, I can my God.

Tell me what seems right...

if you want to cuss about my wife go ahead. unlike what you have said i wont feel sorry for you, but ignore you. i dont know why people take offense to words, they are just words. people need to get over themselves. and yes i doing have something to die for, my wife. while i applaud you doing missonary work, because good can come of it(medicine, schools, etc.) you only go because you think these poor people have no idea they are going to burn in hell, and it is your job to show them the correct path.

 

[B5150]

Christians dont change...havent, wont, dont need to. God is the same yesterday,today, and tommorow.

Christianity is inherently a process of change. To be a Christian is to become Christ-like. I certainly need a complete transformation to become anything that resembles such.

 

[bigironkiller]

Truth is I cannot convince anyone else here of my beliefs, and no one can convince me otherwise. So now what is the point of anymore conversation, is there not a stalemate in motion?

i hope no one here is trying to force beliefs down others throat, though in my opinion you have. i havent told anyone they are outright wrong, only gave my opinion. also this converstaion should continue because more people have opinions and insight to have. again if you are offended by cussing, you really need to get over yourself, off your high horse. if your taking challenges to your beliefs so badly, maybe its because were saying something you dont want to hear.

 

[bigironkiller]

also in these so called miracle cures. why does god do them only to a select few. maybe he sees one life as more important than the next. or he does it to keep believers hanging by a thread hoping they get a miracle, thus keeping belief in him their main priority. if god were so great he would perform miracles on all.

 

[B5150]

Truth is I cannot convince anyone else here of my beliefs, and no one can convince me otherwise. So now what is the point of anymore conversation, is there not a stalemate in motion?

Zero, You are making claims and speaking for Christians.

You are not here to be convincing anyone of your beliefs. You have expressed them, supported them with scripture, have even gone off on some tangents in your practical applications and interpretations.

You are to be light and salt. Anymore conversation should be sharing testimony and or behaving as a witness. There is no stalemate. You do your part and move on.

The very premise of God lowering Himself and becoming God the Son in the form of a man suggests that he must have had first and foremost a tremendous capacity for tolerance just to coexist with us. Let us consider that as Christ like as well. He never forced Himself on man when He was here and He is not in the business of doing so now.

JMHO brother.

 

[bassgod272]

The OLD testament was harsh on non believers, the New testament gives forgiveness through Christ's blood. God is a gealous and he takes vengance for those who are wronged, so as they do not have to bloody their hands. Christians actually have a pretty clean history. You cant claim the "crusades" because that was a Catholic act.

The earth has to run its course...God has his presence, but the prophecies must be fullfilled. Thus Christianity will be almost completly wiped out in the end...Christians will stand alone, and suffer greatly. Why would I stay in my beliefs if it could run the risk of me being murdered if I wasnt sure it was real? When I go to do missionary work, sometimes the chance of return is 50/50 in some of the countries....

I have something I am willing to die for. Do you? If you have children or a wife most likely, then you will say yes. Do you want me cussing about your wife? Trying to prove she is a bad person? I love God and thats what you do to me. Shall I begin to discrace your wife, or girlfriend, or children? For as real as they are to you, My God is to me. And as you can touch and know them, I can my God.

Tell me what seems right...

hey you just reminded me of something. i HIGHLY recommend that you buy the newest RAMBO on dvd. watch it afterward, you'll know why i recommended it. comparing family to god is not right. you cannot physically touch god with your hands. you cannot hug or carry on a conversation with him. there is no 100% sure fire way that proves his existence. family is right there in front of your eyes, that's real. i prayed mantimes and belieed in him and my religion(baptist) 100%. i prayed every night before bed and went to church 4 days per week. yes, i was only 12yrs old or so, but i still believed. he never once answered any of my prayers and terrible things continued to happen to me and others around me. it is because of him, that i do not believe, if indeed he exists. i still to this day have yet to see a single shred of undeniable evidence that proves his existence.

 

[Zero V]

Zero, You are making claims and speaking for Christians.

You are not here to be convincing anyone of your beliefs. You have expressed them, supported them with scripture, have even gone off on some tangents in your practical applications and interpretations.

You are to be light and salt. Anymore conversation should be sharing testimony and or behaving as a witness. There is no stalemate. You do your part and move on.

The very premise of God lowering Himself and becoming God the Son in the form of a man suggests that he must have had first and foremost a tremendous capacity for tolerance just to coexist with us. Let us consider that as Christ like as well. He never forced Himself on man when He was here and He is not in the business of doing so now.

JMHO brother.

Guess I was getting caught up. Thanks man.

 

[bigironkiller]

i guess that god is so busy helping the very few who get miracles that when he hears others prayers, they dont get his full attention. does that seem like the perfect god he is said to be???

 

[bigironkiller]

keep the conversation going guys, im going to bed. will check back tomorrow.

 

[bassgod272]

keep the conversation going guys, im going to bed. will check back tomorrow.

bed!?!?

 

[B5150]

also in these so called miracle cures. why does god do them only to a select few. maybe he sees one life as more important than the next. or he does it to keep believers hanging by a thread hoping they get a miracle, thus keeping belief in him their main priority. if god were so great he would perform miracles on all.

At what point does the 'devils advocate' line of question seize. Seriously. Not intending to be rude.

Prove there is no god or God. Prove miracles have not taken place. Prove healings have not taken place.

I have always had a hard time with the concept of people proving and providing evidence of the existence of nothing or no one. I mean that strictly from a intellectual view.

Will this be the thread that finally brings conclusive evidence in either case despite millenia of failure thus far

 

[Rodja]

There is also no telling how much the "word" has been perverted over the centuries of translations. Like almost every thing in this world, I take scripture with a grain of salt. Do I consider myself religious, no, and that is a convoluted tale in itself, but I do feel as though there is something else at play in the universe. However, I tend to go the polytheist route instead of the monotheistic route.

 

[Zero V]

hey you just reminded me of something. i HIGHLY recommend that you buy the newest RAMBO on dvd. watch it afterward, you'll know why i recommended it. comparing family to god is not right. you cannot physically touch god with your hands. you cannot hug or carry on a conversation with him. there is no 100% sure fire way that proves his existence. family is right there in front of your eyes, that's real. i prayed mantimes and belieed in him and my religion(baptist) 100%. i prayed every night before bed and went to church 4 days per week. yes, i was only 12yrs old or so, but i still believed. he never once answered any of my prayers and terrible things continued to happen to me and others around me. it is because of him, that i do not believe, if indeed he exists. i still to this day have yet to see a single shred of undeniable evidence that proves his existence.

Sometimes bad things happen. satan has riegn over the world at the moment. God is a being who keeps his word. this is a time period where satan is trying to pull as man people down with him as he can. God allows satan to do so, because this world does not matter.

We experience pain on a worldly level, and that is all it is. This world does not matter... there are memories I wish I didnt have... pains I wish I didnt feel. Today I stand a thousand percent stronger than I once was, because of pain. We wanted to control out own experiences, so we do. Problem is others sometimes take control of our experiences. Other people.


God has given man free will, as a gift, and thus, once man chose to sin against God, he was given his desire to be as a gods. Thus man was given freedom over his own life and choice and actions. That is why we fight for life like we do, and there is sickness and death. It is what we wanted.


You know I am one guy, 21 years old, and you people seem to think I need to have the wisdom of a 600 year old wiseman to be accurate in my expressions. Take it or leave it, I tried.

 

[B5150]

Guess I was getting caught up. Thanks man.

Believers and non believers do so in threads like this. They are most often not fruitful or becoming either. Hence my desire to refrain from such.

Everyone please just behave.

 

[Zero V]

Believers and non believers do so in threads like this. They are most often not fruitful or becoming either. Hence my desire to refrain from such.

I originally stated something about that when I made my first post in this thread, I knew I would get too far into it lol... So hard to resist though.

Sad point is, the entire conversation will end most likely with both parties walking away the same as they were before it began. Which makes the entire thing almost pointless.

Though I have helped a few people get saved, its not an easy thing to do sometimes. Especially in txt....I have always done it through voice and in person..

 

[Rodja]

Sometimes bad things happen. satan has riegn over the world at the moment. God is a being who keeps his word. this is a time period where satan is trying to pull as man people down with him as he can. God allows satan to do so, because this world does not matter.

We experience pain on a worldly level, and that is all it is. This world does not matter... there are memories I wish I didnt have... pains I wish I didnt feel. Today I stand a thousand percent stronger than I once was, because of pain. We wanted to control out own experiences, so we do. Problem is others sometimes take control of our experiences. Other people.


God has given man free will, as a gift, and thus, once man chose to sin against God, he was given his desire to be as a gods. Thus man was given freedom over his own life and choice and actions. That is why we fight for life like we do, and there is sickness and death. It is what we wanted.


You know I am one guy, 21 years old, and you people seem to think I need to have the wisdom of a 600 year old wiseman to be accurate in my expressions. Take it or leave it, I tried.

By this definition, Satan has had a grasp on humanity for a long time. Suffering and/or pain is a part of the human condition and I find it to be silly to think that anyone will live a pain-free existence. It is all a part of the dichotomy of life because there can be no great pleasure without also having great pain.

 

[bassgod272]

Sometimes bad things happen. satan has riegn over the world at the moment. God is a being who keeps his word. this is a time period where satan is trying to pull as man people down with him as he can. God allows satan to do so, because this world does not matter.

We experience pain on a worldly level, and that is all it is. This world does not matter... there are memories I wish I didnt have... pains I wish I didnt feel. Today I stand a thousand percent stronger than I once was, because of pain. We wanted to control out own experiences, so we do. Problem is others sometimes take control of our experiences. Other people.


God has given man free will, as a gift, and thus, once man chose to sin against God, he was given his desire to be as a gods. Thus man was given freedom over his own life and choice and actions. That is why we fight for life like we do, and there is sickness and death. It is what we wanted.


You know I am one guy, 21 years old, and you people seem to think I need to have the wisdom of a 600 year old wiseman to be accurate in my expressions. Take it or leave it, I tried.

we are not saying that you have the wisdom of a 600yr old wiseman. we are simply asking the questions that have not been answered. since you believe 100% and say you have proof, then why would you not be the perfect person to ask these questions to? if god created us humans on this world, why would the very things that he created, not matter? are you refering to adam and eve with your "god has given man free will and we chose to sin against him" comment? if so, that in no way means that since the apple was eaten, us humans want sickness and death. that is just ridiculous.

 

[bassgod272]

By this definition, Satan has had a grasp on humanity for a long time. Suffering and/or pain is a part of the human condition and I find it to be silly to think that anyone will live a pain-free existence. It is all a part of the dichotomy of life because there can be no great pleasure without also having great pain.

:goodpost:

 

[Zero V]

we are not saying that you have the wisdom of a 600yr old wiseman. we are simply asking the questions that have not been answered. since you believe 100% and say you have proof, then why would you not be the perfect person to ask these questions to? if god created us humans on this world, why would the very things that he created, not matter? are you refering to adam and eve with your "god has given man free will and we chose to sin against him" comment? if so, that in no way means that since the apple was eaten, us humans want sickness and death. that is just ridiculous.

By what we wanted is in refrence to the control and power. Well we got what we wanted and God also gave us our punishment for disobediance. Like any father does for his child...

What we wanted was to be in control, well we are. We just cant stop evil, disease, and pain because we arent capable of it as humans. But it is what we wanted...Our own wills to be fullfilled no? Biological weapons are some peoples wills and desires, its what they want...disease...not for themselves of course...

Power corrupts. Very few people can resist the corruption of power.

 

[bassgod272]

By what we wanted is in refrence to the control and power. Well we got what we wanted and God also gave us our punishment for disobediance. Like any father does for his child...

What we wanted was to be in control, well we are. We just cant stop evil, disease, and pain because we arent capable of it as humans. But it is what we wanted...Our own wills to be fullfilled no? Biological weapons are some peoples wills and desires, its what they want...disease...not for themselves of course...

Power corrupts. Very few people can resist the corruption of power.

we are capable of stopping disease and pain being mere humans. i do this on a daily basis by dispensing medications to sick patients. we do not miraculously heal people and make the dead walk, no. but we DO stop, slow, and/or cure diseases and pain. i am a good person, not an evil one. evil is within ourselves and we DO have the power to overcome it. it is another choice that we must make. some people are just weaker than others. you know when you do something that is wrong or right. it is YOUR OWN CHOICE whether you do it or not.

 

[Dadof2]

none of this has anything to do with religion. since we have moved past our religious history, we no longer torture people for heracy. you have to look at the world climate and the effects it has on people. we have 14th century muslims attacking us because we are free. it is the so called "religious" politicians that are the major cause of problems in this country. we are at war, being fought in totally the wrong way, and in an economic struggle. we have a high divorce rate because we are at a point in civilization that allows us to look past procreation and safety, but towards happiness. in years past marriages were about stability, and saftey(mostly the womans).women can work now and can fully be independent. know we are seeing more and more stay at home dads, all this is just because of the times we live in, not religion.education has faultered because we pay teachers ****, and honestly the students are lazy. we are so used to having things handed to us, no one wants to work for anything. nothing is wrong with premarital sex, it is the teaching of abstinence that is basically blinding kids as to the risks. also, the population has soared in this country with alot of influx of different cultures, etc. thus we have more crime. and from your posts you seem to be the kind of guy that doesnt live life to the fullest because you are so preoccupied with god, you forget to live. i think religion just gives people an excuse to judge people and escape from life.

The amount of people who were killed/tortured by various religions throughout history are nowhere near the amount of people killed by atheist regimes throughout history. Hell, we just saw a couple of atheist regimes brutally oppress and kill Buddhist monks just this year alone. Utopia does not exist in the absence of religion.

The Muslims don't hate us because of our freedom. They hate us because we have soldiers in Saudi Arabia, because we need to support a corrupt, abusive regime in order to get their oil. Saudi Arabia is the holiest place in Islam, it is known as Mecca. It is a slap in the face to millions of people to have US soldiers on the ground there. Not just because it is an insult to Islam to have non-Muslims on that soil, but becaues we support one of the most brutal regimes in the wold there.This is another way of saying that Muslims hate us because of our foreign policy in the Middle East. I used to think exactly as you do about this subject, then I read on it a bit. Ron Paul is right about this, and there are many books that speak of this subject if you want to look into it a bit further.

As far as divorce, what is love? Love is essentially the result of some chemical reactions that we get when we are with someone. Sometimes these cause relationships to happen, and over the course of time an emotional attachment happens between the two people. The reason that divorces are so high is because when the excitement wears off, or the relationship hits a hard spot people would rather move on than work through it. Perhaps some people stuck it out because women couldn't support themselves, but I also think that people had stronger character in the past. We live in an instant gratification society, and this really isn't benefitting anyone. I have never met a couple that has been married for 30-50 years that wasn't glad that they didn't give up when they were young.

Education is a joke, because bureaucracies suck. I can leave it at that I think :toofunny:

We have too much crime because our society is decaying, and out of wedlock births are partly to blame for that. Casual sex has consequences, and those consequences include unwanted/uncared for children. By in large these children grow up to be angry and disfunctional adults who commit crimes.

Zero is right in saying that this country is in trouble, it absolutely is. I can safely say this: America will become less religious, just like Europe, and we will get the chance to see whether it becomes a better place or a worse place.

 

[Dadof2]

we are capable of stopping disease and pain being mere humans. i do this on a daily basis by dispensing medications to sick patients. we do not miraculously heal people and make the dead walk, no. but we DO stop, slow, and/or cure diseases and pain. i am a good person, not an evil one. evil is within ourselves and we DO have the power to overcome it. it is another choice that we must make. some people are just weaker than others. you know when you do something that is wrong or right. it is YOUR OWN CHOICE whether you do it or not.

This is a good point. A good question to ask yourself is why do we choose to do the wrong thing even when we know better?

 

[bassgod272]

[/B]

This is a good point. A good question to ask yourself is why do we choose to do the wrong thing even when we know better?

usually it is because doing the wrong thing will result in personal gain. people are selfish and like V said, thirst for power. like i've stated, i am a good person. i do not do bad things like steal, commit crimes, etc. ok, so i have some speeding tickets on myecord, lol, but that's is. there's nothing in the bible about speeding i'm not saying that i don't ever make bad decisions. i am just saying that again, people can be good or bad. it is their choice and what they do is up to them, not some outside force that makes them do it. this is just what i think anyway.

 

[Zero V]

we are capable of stopping disease and pain being mere humans. i do this on a daily basis by dispensing medications to sick patients. we do not miraculously heal people and make the dead walk, no. but we DO stop, slow, and/or cure diseases and pain. i am a good person, not an evil one. evil is within ourselves and we DO have the power to overcome it. it is another choice that we must make. some people are just weaker than others. you know when you do something that is wrong or right. it is YOUR OWN CHOICE whether you do it or not.

Stop AIDs, merca... Some things can only be slowed. And evne then the quality of life drops as they get closer to the end.

How did we develope to have a conscience and the abilitiy to create the idea of right and wrong?

 

[Dadof2]

usually it is because doing the wrong thing will result in personal gain. people are selfish and like V said, thirst for power. like i've stated, i am a good person. i do not do bad things like steal, commit crimes, etc. ok, so i have some speeding tickets on myecord, lol, but that's is. there's nothing in the bible about speeding i'm not saying that i don't ever make bad decisions. i am just saying that again, people can be good or bad. it is their choice and what they do is up to them, not some outside force that makes them do it. this is just what i think anyway.

No you are absolutely correct. This is the condition of mankind.

You see, this is the story that is told in the book of Genesis, you know, Adam and Eve. Man didn't even know what good and evil was, all he knew was trusting God. Ever since the first sin, when man chose not to trust God, man has known good and evil and cannot help but choosing evil. This is known as mans bent, or fallen nature.

From that first sin came every other sin throughout history. So if you look at this from a Christian theological standpoint every sin ever comitted was born from that first sin in the Garden.

What was God to do? Does He destroy man and start over? Does He let mankind go on until the man finally destroys himself? What God did was live among man as a Man and take mans death penalty Himself. Now we have the opportunity to no longer suffer under sin, and Jesus will return to save humanity before it does destroy itself.

At least that is what the Bible has to say about it.

 

[bigironkiller]

couldnt sleep so i had to check back. humans will behave like humans no matter if god is believd or not. you cant say that good is a result of religion where as evil is lack of. another thing is that no one has proved that without god there can be no morals. i for one dont believe in god, never have yet i manage to act justly. what about the millions of others who do the same.i doubt that when a religious person does something good for someone, he really is doing gods work. why does religion have to complicate simple day to day events as thru gods grace. if god is required for morals, why does his abscence not equate to pure evil in the individual.

 

[Dadof2]

couldnt sleep so i had to check back. humans will behave like humans no matter if god is believd or not. you cant say that good is a result of religion where as evil is lack of. another thing is that no one has proved that without god there can be no morals. i for one dont believe in god, never have yet i manage to act justly. what about the millions of others who do the same.i doubt that when a religious person does something good for someone, he really is doing gods work. why does religion have to complicate simple day to day events as thru gods grace. if god is required for morals, why does his abscence not equate to pure evil in the individual.

One thing to think about is this:

If there is no God then there really isn't any good or evil is there? What is good? Good can be relative. In one place on Earth it can be good for adults to have sex with toddlers, and in another place it can be seen as horrible, who would be right?

 

[bigironkiller]

One thing to think if is this:

If there is no God then there really isn't any good or evil is there? What is good? Good can be relative. In one place on Earth it can be good for adults to have sex with toddlers, and in another place it can be seen as horrible, who would be right?

there still would be good and evil, just confined to individual cultures. i dont support your sex with toddlers comment, but to this day young girls are still made to marry older men. but in their culture that is what is practiced. if another culture deems some of americans actions evil, they have every right too. we do live in a global world and thus more cultures are put into a single perspective, usually by the ruling nations. as to who is the judge, it should be the individual culture, but in a more and more connected world, it is invariably chosen by the top nations. america has been sticking its nose into evryones business, trying to make them believe as we do. its not enough that we live relatively safe in america, we have to make sure everyone thinks as we do too. i realize we are probobly on our way to a single global government, but in my opinion this will led to one of the greatest culture wars this world has ever seen....