Havoc PCT advice

Mikey13

Member
I am about to finish my 5th week of Havoc (20/20/30/30/40)
I am curious at to those experienced with Havoc and these PCT supps would dose these
Nolva, aPCT, LeanXtreme
I have a decent idea as I have asked some senior members, and board reps but I keep seeing conflicting advice throughout other members threads.

along with Cycle Support, Multi, tri-creatine malate, BCAAs, zma
I was going to do
Nolva -- - - - - 20/20/20/20
aPCT - - - - - - 3/3/2/1
LeanExtreme - 4/4/4/4


Although I have seen
aPCT at 3/3/3/3
and LeanExtreme at 4/3/2/2 or even x/x/4/4
I would assume that keeping aPCT at a straight dose would lead to a rebound after the 4th week and the same with a cortisol blocker - no

What do you guys/gals suggest and why?

Thanks
 
Nolva
40 first 3 days then:
30/20/20/10
Less is more IMO with Nolva, especially after a compoud like havoc which isn't too harsh.


aPCT
0/1/2/3
You dont want to obliterate estrogen levels during PCT. It will screw your recovery.


Lean XTreme
4/4/4/4 sounds cool to me.
 
RenegadeRows said:
aPCT
0/1/2/3
You dont want to obliterate estrogen levels during PCT. It will screw your recovery.


Lean XTreme
4/4/4/4 sounds cool to me.
Click to expand...
Do you mind explaining why ramping up and then suddenly stopping aPCT is a good idea? - maybe I am just over thinking this whole thing too much.
And the same with Lean Xtreme - why a sudden end would not lead to a rebound in cortisol levels?
 
Mikey13 said:
Do you mind explaining why ramping up and then suddenly stopping aPCT is a good idea? - maybe I am just over thinking this whole thing too much.
Click to expand...

I also ask because everyone else has suggested
3/3/2/1, while you suggest 0/1/2/3 - I just want to understand your thought process, I am not questioning your knowledge.
 
Mikey13 said:
I am about to finish my 5th week of Havoc (20/20/30/30/40)
I am curious at to those experienced with Havoc and these PCT supps would dose these
Nolva, aPCT, LeanXtreme
I have a decent idea as I have asked some senior members, and board reps but I keep seeing conflicting advice throughout other members threads.

along with Cycle Support, Multi, tri-creatine malate, BCAAs, zma
I was going to do
Nolva -- - - - - 20/20/20/20
aPCT - - - - - - 3/3/2/1
LeanExtreme - 4/4/4/4


Although I have seen
aPCT at 3/3/3/3
and LeanExtreme at 4/3/2/2 or even x/x/4/4
I would assume that keeping aPCT at a straight dose would lead to a rebound after the 4th week and the same with a cortisol blocker - no

What do you guys/gals suggest and why?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Read this post:

Invalid Link Removed
 
RenegadeRows said:
Nolva
40 first 3 days then:
30/20/20/10
Less is more IMO with Nolva, especially after a compoud like havoc which isn't too harsh.

This looks fine to me.

aPCT
0/1/2/3
You dont want to obliterate estrogen levels during PCT. It will screw your recovery.

The AI should start off low and increase in dose over the 4 week period. I would start it during week 1 however.


Lean XTreme
4/4/4/4 sounds cool to me.

I would gradually taper the Anti-Cort. Immediately during the pct period cortisol will rise sharply as the body is shocked into attempting to upregulate its HPTA. An anti-cort is needed less as the body begins to gradually recover. Something to the effect of 4,4,3,2 would be what i'd do.
Click to expand...

See above
 
So exactly how is everyone getting the Nolva...going to the Doc and saying I just did some "legal" juice, now I need this drug for post cycle therapy?

Or finding on the black market?

Or is there anywhere you can buy it without a script (if we're talking about real tamoxefin, which think is what Nolvadex is).
 
matheje said:
So exactly how is everyone getting the Nolva...going to the Doc and saying I just did some "legal" juice, now I need this drug for post cycle therapy?

Or finding on the black market?

Or is there anywhere you can buy it without a script (if we're talking about real tamoxefin, which think is what Nolvadex is).
Click to expand...

No replies....kind of figured that'd be the case.
 
matheje said:
No replies....kind of figured that'd be the case.
Click to expand...

I don't know AM's policy, but the best I can tell you is think of the easiest way to search for said chemicals... and I'm not referring to AM's 'search' feature....

Personally, I don't give out sources.
 
Rob Awesome said:
I don't know AM's policy, but the best I can tell you is think of the easiest way to search for said chemicals... and I'm not referring to AM's 'search' feature....

Personally, I don't give out sources.
Click to expand...

I wasn't looking for a source per se, just very general info...I can read between the lines if necessary.

I notice no one said they go to their Doc so I think that says a bunch.
 
Mikey13 said:
I also ask because everyone else has suggested
3/3/2/1, while you suggest 0/1/2/3 - I just want to understand your thought process, I am not questioning your knowledge.
Click to expand...

Typically, if no serm is used, most people like to simply run an AI taper for estrogen control.

If a serm is implemented, you are allowing estrogen to come back to "normal" levels but not take effect (because the serm doesn't stop production, it just blocks estrogen from binding). As you taper the serm, you want to make sure your estrogen production does not "overshoot" normal production levels so you ramp your AI INVERSE to the serm, just as trauma suggested. This is a good theory, and it's popular, but know that there are other successfully run strategies as well.

I say know the subjective history of your compound in regards to your question of simply stopping the AI. Do people see nipple and gyno at the end of pct or after pct? Know the subjective history of the AI you are using. Do people tend to discuss gyno or nipple sensations if they don't taper it?

The answer varies drastically, but you have to read read read to find out the trends.
 
celc5 said:
Typically, if no serm is used, most people like to simply run an AI taper for estrogen control.

If a serm is implemented, you are allowing estrogen to come back to "normal" levels but not take effect (because the serm doesn't stop production, it just blocks estrogen from binding). As you taper the serm, you want to make sure your estrogen production does not "overshoot" normal production levels so you ramp your AI INVERSE to the serm, just as trauma suggested. This is a good theory, and it's popular, but know that there are other successfully run strategies as well.

I say know the subjective history of your compound in regards to your question of simply stopping the AI. Do people see nipple and gyno at the end of pct or after pct? Know the subjective history of the AI you are using. Do people tend to discuss gyno or nipple sensations if they don't taper it?

The answer varies drastically, but you have to read read read to find out the trends.
Click to expand...

Exactly, well said.

You really are on a havoc kick tonight aren't you lol.
 
Trauma1 said:
Exactly, well said.

You really are on a havoc kick tonight aren't you lol.
Click to expand...

Ya, I'm doing some homework for a Furaz to Havoc bridge or stack in about a month or so. It'll be a gametime decision though based on how body comp comes along in the mean time.
 
ok - my two cents.

i would take aPCT as recommended. For the reason being that you do not have a separate test booster in your pct plan. probably because aPCT is going to accomplish this. That being said - it should not be viewed as an AI product only. The combination of ingredients are synergistically working together to achieve both purposes in one product. Though tapering or ramping up AI are two possible pct models this model doesn't seem to exist as an approach on how to work with the test boosters. (note - the serm is tapered but though it will help natural test production to a degree - it is still being used for other purposes here during post cycle)
 
celc5 said:
Typically, if no serm is used, most people like to simply run an AI taper for estrogen control.

If a serm is implemented, you are allowing estrogen to come back to "normal" levels but not take effect (because the serm doesn't stop production, it just blocks estrogen from binding). As you taper the serm, you want to make sure your estrogen production does not "overshoot" normal production levels so you ramp your AI INVERSE to the serm, just as trauma suggested. This is a good theory, and it's popular, but know that there are other successfully run strategies as well.

I say know the subjective history of your compound in regards to your question of simply stopping the AI. Do people see nipple and gyno at the end of pct or after pct? Know the subjective history of the AI you are using. Do people tend to discuss gyno or nipple sensations if they don't taper it?

The answer varies drastically, but you have to read read read to find out the trends.
Click to expand...
very well stated indeed, thanks.. For some reason the other explanations were not making sense to me, must have been the stress I was going through at that moment in time.

I got 1 more week of pct left and I liking the results, bigger and leaner, with a lot more strength.
 
matheje said:
I wasn't looking for a source per se, just very general info...I can read between the lines if necessary.

I notice no one said they go to their Doc so I think that says a bunch.

My guess is in the right gym, you can find anything.
Click to expand...

lol you must be new to the internet...those of us who have been online before use google every time we have a question
 
krogtaar said:
lol you must be new to the internet...those of us who have been online before use google every time we have a question
Click to expand...

:fool2:

Here we are, in a forum dedicated to such matters, and somehow we shouldn't ask those questions here, of people "in the know", but would be better off googling???? Uhhh, yeah, thanks for the advice, Mr. Sarcasm! LOL.
 
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