Juicaholic
New member
Once I reconstitute it with AA do I have to refrigerate it? I believe that I read somewhere that once reconstituted it will be fine at room temp for a while. What do you recommend?
IGF storage
- Thread starter Juicaholic
- Start date
Graglor
Member
I think it's a lot more stable then what it got credit for years ago. I kept mine in my truck for three months and even after all that shaking around it was still good.
vkg1
Member
I just received a couple mgs of IGF-1LR3 in AA and did something very stupid with them. I left the two vials in my car where they got hot for a few hours. Then I threw them in the freezer because I was freaking out about how hot they were. But then I forgot them in the freezer (was only going to put them in there for a few minutes before switching to fridge) and they froze.
What does freezing do to IGF-1LR3? Have I just destroyed my several hundred dollars worth of brand new IGF-1 before I even got to try it?
What does freezing do to IGF-1LR3? Have I just destroyed my several hundred dollars worth of brand new IGF-1 before I even got to try it?
RedwolfWV
Registered User
I just received a couple mgs of IGF-1LR3 in AA and did something very stupid with them. I left the two vials in my car where they got hot for a few hours. Then I threw them in the freezer because I was freaking out about how hot they were. But then I forgot them in the freezer (was only going to put them in there for a few minutes before switching to fridge) and they froze.
What does freezing do to IGF-1LR3? Have I just destroyed my several hundred dollars worth of brand new IGF-1 before I even got to try it?
If it was all ready in AA, freezing it probably destroyed the peptide.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
What if you put the powder in the freezer. IT was sent in a container with a frozen pack, but mostly melted.
vkg1
Member
Could you please elaborate? What is it about being in AA solution that would cause the peptide to get destroyed when frozen? What other kind of freezing (obviously not powder since powder isn't a liquid) would the peptide have survived?
RedwolfWV
Registered User
I believe the powder itself will survive frozen. Hell thats how its made. Freezing and then thawing ANY reconstituted peptide is a big NO NO. They are fragile and it breaks them. There is a word for this, but I don't remember what it is. Its not the AA solution, its just the fact that it is reconstituted. Could be Bac. Water and you'd still have a dead peptide.
Bobaslaw
Member
IGF is a very fragile peptide that is greatly susceptible to shock, thus you never inject AA directly into the lypholized powder and let it dribble down the side instead. Also, you never shake it, rather gently swirling to reconstitute.
Freezing/ice crystalization in AA solution (the water actually)will cause great pressure on the peptide fragment from all different angles, thus destroying (breaking apart) the fragile peptide.
Example: You've seen what will happen to water frozen in a glass or can? High pressure is not good for IGF.
Thawing will also add to the stress on the peptide.
vkg1
Member
So am I probably screwed or do I have 50/50 chance that it's going to be fine or what? This is a total disaster for a poor student with no income.
Anyone heard of anyone in the past forgetting LGF-1 in car in winter or something and having it freeze but come out fine?
If you look at the last paragraph on Invalid Link Removed, this Dave Palumbo guy seems to be saying that IGF-1LR3 can be frozen unlike other more complex peptides. Is that for some different form only (ie not in AA suspension) or something? AAAAAAAAAHH this is a total disaster!
Anyone heard of anyone in the past forgetting LGF-1 in car in winter or something and having it freeze but come out fine?
If you look at the last paragraph on Invalid Link Removed, this Dave Palumbo guy seems to be saying that IGF-1LR3 can be frozen unlike other more complex peptides. Is that for some different form only (ie not in AA suspension) or something? AAAAAAAAAHH this is a total disaster!
Bobaslaw
Member
The general consensus I have seen is that you should not Freeze/thaw it in solution for the reasons listed before. Freezing the lypholized powder has been said to be fine on many forums.
However, there is a study by Gropep which I cannot verify, but shows that Frozen IGF in solution at -20 C is biologically potent for 2 years. A few forums have questioned this study and its validity. The main notion that Gropep originally stated Freezing is not recommended, and then later this study showed up. I really don't have any "hard" facts other than common knowledge and internet info(for what it is worth without any way to verify it), so you need to make your own decision. Can anyone comment on this Gropep writeup? I have no clue about it's authenticity, other than "how it looks".
Storage of LR3 IGF-1
*Study conducted by Gropep
*posted by LakeMounted @ *************.com
The stability of a liquid solution of LR3IGF-I was monitored for a period of two years at storage conditions of -20 C, +4 C, +22 C, and +37 C. The final concentration of LR3IGF-I was in acetic acid. At various time points, samples were taken and compared to a lyophilized control (stored at 4 C). Listed below are the stability results for each respective storage condition.
Storage Condition: -20 C (-4 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 2 years
Immunological Activity No Change up to 2 years
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 2 years
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 2 years
Storage Condition: +4 C (39.2 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 2 years
Immunological Activity No Change up to 2 years
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 2 years
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 2 years
Storage Condition: +22 C (71.6 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 2 years
Immunological Activity No Change up to 2 years
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 2 years
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 2 years
Storage Condition: +37 C (98.6 F)
Biological Potency No Change up to 1 year
Immunological Activity No Change up to 1 year
Mobility of Protein No Change up to 1 year
Elution Profile by reversed phased HPLC No Change up to 1 year
RedwolfWV
Registered User
I've got that same write up. I'd wonder how it was frozen though. "Flash" frozen, or just stuck in a freezer.
I'd still use the stuff you have VK if it was mine. Just know that it might not be as potent as it originally was. Try it, and if you don't notice any changes, double the doseage.
I'd still use the stuff you have VK if it was mine. Just know that it might not be as potent as it originally was. Try it, and if you don't notice any changes, double the doseage.
Bobaslaw
Member
I agree there may be viable IGF in there but who knows how much.
I do not agree to "seeing how it feels" to be a good method of assessing viability. Many ppl do not get any sides from IGF like hypo feelings, pumps etc and you do not have any idea if he would either. Just doubling or tripling up the dosage does not tell you how much viable IGF you are getting in this situation, and as we all know from all the IGF info here, proper dosages are quite small with small margins. There is no way I could even attempt to guestimate how much of a potentially degraded IGF solution I would need to dose properly within the guidelines (Grunts IGF protocols).
Personally, I would not do this because I would not be certain how much I am getting. What if there was no degradation in his situation or very little? And with small mcg dosages, doubling up can be a big difference. I mean, would you do this with potentially degraded PH or Test? Just shoot or take a double dose if you don't feel anything not knowing how much you're getting?
I don't think it is very responsible for any of us to tell him to do this, especially if we have no hard facts as to the state of the IGF.
My 2 cents, take it for what it's worth.
Take Care.
pumbertot
Active member
agree. he should just treat it as having no degradation and stick to original guidelines. he will know during the cycle if he is getting the good pumps that at least it is working to some degree. nevermind if he never knows how much of it was working, just use it as being good. worst that can happen is nothing and at best, everything.
vkg1
Member
Thanks for all the advice guys. What do you think of this Dave Palumbo guy, and particularly the information he gives on storing IGF-1 as shared at the top of Invalid Link Removed on a forum?
He seems to be a respected guy at least in some deecently large circles. And that forum popst almost makes it sound like he recommends freezing the stuff.
I certainly strongly regret accidentally freezing mine and will never do it again just because I have no reason to and so many people are saying you definitely shouldn't. However, is it possible there's a really good chance freezing it one time early in its life might actually not have done any real damage and I'm pretty much A-ok?
In light of the evidence a couple people seem to indicate exists that IGF-1 may be more tollerant of freezing than maybe some other peptides and HGH, for example, do you think I may just be fine? I know there's no way to tell and conventional wisdom indicates damage has probably been done. However, the study results listed above and what I can find on Google (basically the statements by this Dave Palumbo guy), leave me feeling a lot more positive.
Also, by the way, just thought I'd point out that freezing doesn't necessarily mean tremendous pressure was applied to the peptides in the sense like you might imagine after the experience of having a coke can or something explode in a freezer. The reason is that the vial has a huge volume of air and only one little mL of the solution. This is the opposite of situation like coke can where there is hugh amount of liquid that expands when freezes and only very small amount of air. Thus, when the water expands upon freezing, the pressure in the vial doesn't increase significantly at all. The expansion of 1mL, in fact, might be smaller than the decompression of the air in the vial (since air contracts/gets more dense with drop in temperature). So pressure-wise it's more akin to something freezing in an open glass of water or a lake or a puddle or something -- there's no actual increase in pressure on anything frozen inside. At least that what physics 101 understanding of things tells me...
He seems to be a respected guy at least in some deecently large circles. And that forum popst almost makes it sound like he recommends freezing the stuff.
I certainly strongly regret accidentally freezing mine and will never do it again just because I have no reason to and so many people are saying you definitely shouldn't. However, is it possible there's a really good chance freezing it one time early in its life might actually not have done any real damage and I'm pretty much A-ok?
In light of the evidence a couple people seem to indicate exists that IGF-1 may be more tollerant of freezing than maybe some other peptides and HGH, for example, do you think I may just be fine? I know there's no way to tell and conventional wisdom indicates damage has probably been done. However, the study results listed above and what I can find on Google (basically the statements by this Dave Palumbo guy), leave me feeling a lot more positive.
Also, by the way, just thought I'd point out that freezing doesn't necessarily mean tremendous pressure was applied to the peptides in the sense like you might imagine after the experience of having a coke can or something explode in a freezer. The reason is that the vial has a huge volume of air and only one little mL of the solution. This is the opposite of situation like coke can where there is hugh amount of liquid that expands when freezes and only very small amount of air. Thus, when the water expands upon freezing, the pressure in the vial doesn't increase significantly at all. The expansion of 1mL, in fact, might be smaller than the decompression of the air in the vial (since air contracts/gets more dense with drop in temperature). So pressure-wise it's more akin to something freezing in an open glass of water or a lake or a puddle or something -- there's no actual increase in pressure on anything frozen inside. At least that what physics 101 understanding of things tells me...
Bobaslaw
Member
Good info, however, my analogy may have been misleading from what I meant. I was not really so concerned about the outward "pressure" expansion of the "water" at its border with the container it resides in.
My point was more about the H2O molecules surrounding the peptide fragments in 3D space. To my understanding (I could be completely wrong here), during the freezing phase change they rearrange themselves in to a lattice formation as crystalization begins. Crystalization can start at multiple points in the solution also adding to stress where crystalization fronts meet up(peptides between crystalization fronts are "sandwiched" and pushed into a new positions from inbetween the h2O molecules). This structuralization/rearrangement occurs all around the peptides causing stresses/strain to a certain degree. Thawing phase changes will also cause stresses. Whether these stresses are "tremendous", as you put it earlier, or not, the peptide is still stressed to some degree. Is it enough to degrade it? Thats the question here. Much internet info/common IGF knowledge says one thing and on the other hand you have the Gropep study and opinions of some knowlegable ppl on different forums. Who really knows? I realize I don't .
I wish you well with your IGF, I know what it feels like to possibly lose such an investment. Happend to me before a few times, unfortunately.
Good Luck
