go away delso you have no idea what your talking about and ur ruining way too many threads.... its your choice not to take these supplements and it's unfair that ur giving your biased oppinion as advice... it's far more effective giving people the information they need or ASKED FOR to make their own decissions... some people did actually get an education and can make up their own minds.
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That said i do agree a certain level training needs to be attained before seeking assistance...IF you have little knowledge on training and nutrition then a good idea would be to spend at least 12 weeks focusing on diet training and correct form. (in this 12 weeks you will form a good base to start and you should also be able to drop any excess bodyfat). after this, provided you have a good understanding of what your getting into go for it! just be safe and don't do silly things that could ruin your health in the long term... if you give youself 6 months to achieve goals you should be set, just be paitient, train hard and don't lose focus.