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The Androsterone Thread

tilerbreaker said:
With respect to this point, has anyone looked for substances that might be able to modify the activities of some of the enzymes that help perform these conversions. Theoretically it would be possible to really shift the equilibriums toward favorable conversion rates with compounds like this. No idea if anything like that has ever been looked at. Just speculating though...
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What do you think our company does for a living?

3bHSD - Forskolin Upregulates
Sulfotransferase - Inhibited by Luteolin/Quercetin
Glucoronidase - Inhibited by Silybinin and Piperine
Aromatase - Inhibited by ATD
5aReductase - Inhibited by Stinging Nettle
SHBG - Downregulated by Stinging Nettle

We have inhibitors for 17bHSD and other ones. These are all patent pending with respect to prohormones and is the main thing that seperates us from the competition. Why do you think Methyl 1-D works so well?

Methyl Masterdrol V2 has these ingredients in there too. Increases potency and increases activity! We license this to quite a few other people in the industry too. Our science goes FAR beyond finding new compounds. Any moron can put epi-androsterone in a capsule, but it takes science to make it work.
 
I always wondered the same. I wish there was some way to supplement the enzymes themselves and develop methods to get those enzymes where we need them to do the conversions in the right place (muscles namely). wonder if it could be done with transdermals and whatnot. This would increase the efficacy of these compounds greatly.
 
slow-mun said:
You are 100% correct. The main things that we want in this industry are effective muscle builders that are DSHEA compliant. All of the current prosteroid/designer steroids are not DSHEA compliant. We want to have products that work, yet are able to be bought and sold OTC without fear that the FDA will try and schedule them. That's the main difference between DSHEA and non-DSHEA compliance. We all want the better mousetrap, but we can't expect the 2004 ban to be repealed, nor can we expect the general public to simply forget the Balco scandal that led to that ban. Two-step prohormones could realistically be all that we have left soon, so more innovation in that area is a good thing. We know they might not be as effective as active compounds and arguing about their efficacy is quickly becoming a moot point as newer/better products are being released.
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I know when i ran 1-androsterone even tho for only 3 weeks i was in love with it. If we could get these put out and even try dermals itd be great. There are so many ways to go about manipulating these to make them effective and DSHEA legal.
 
LegalGear said:
What do you think our company does for a living?

3bHSD - Forskolin Upregulates
Sulfotransferase - Inhibited by Luteolin/Quercetin
Glucoronidase - Inhibited by Silybinin and Piperine
Aromatase - Inhibited by ATD
5aReductase - Inhibited by Stinging Nettle
SHBG - Downregulated by Stinging Nettle

We have inhibitors for 17bHSD and other ones. These are all patent pending with respect to prohormones and is the main thing that seperates us from the competition. Why do you think Methyl 1-D works so well?

Methyl Masterdrol V2 has these ingredients in there too. Increases potency and increases activity! We license this to quite a few other people in the industry too. Our science goes FAR beyond finding new compounds. Any moron can put epi-androsterone in a capsule, but it takes science to make it work.
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that IS pretty sweet....still think it would be awesome to somehow flood the body with enzymes via supplementation.
 
3clipseGT said:
I know when i ran 1-androsterone even tho for only 3 weeks i was in love with it. If we could get these put out and even try dermals itd be great. There are so many ways to go about manipulating these to make them effective and DSHEA legal.
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poopypants said:
I always wondered the same. I wish there was some way to supplement the enzymes themselves and develop methods to get those enzymes where we need them to do the conversions in the right place (muscles namely). wonder if it could be done with transdermals and whatnot. This would increase the efficacy of these compounds greatly.
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I agree. One of the things that I like about LG Science doing most of this type of innovation is that they already have a couple of other transdermal products available already. It wouldn't take much for them to use existing transport systems to experiment and eventually release a transdermal product that has androstanes as its backbone.
 
No real way to flood the body with enzymes but we have already done a lot with enzyme manipulation.

For whoever asked the difference between steroids and prohormones, just check out the article on our forum here at AM.

Would you guys want us to start making dermals again? We could ramp that up just for AM people. Our dermals did rock the house!
 
the only real reason Id want a dermal is if it increases the efficacy of the compound absorbed... otherwise Im plenty fine with poppin pills.

Im not below testing comparitive cycles :D but youd prob be well off using one of your reps that have already tried the current forms.
 
LegalGear said:
Would you guys want us to start making dermals again? We could ramp that up just for AM people. Our dermals did rock the house!
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I'd be willing to fork over the cash to try some out. I mean, I'd seriously be interesting in the prospect of using an androstane based transdermal.
 
Ok, I will make up a test batch for the people on AM. We will bring it out under the LegalGear name. I will see what I have available but we would probably do:

Androsterone
1-Androsterone
19NorAndrosterone

I will do some mixes...
 
LegalGear said:
Ok, I will make up a test batch for the people on AM. We will bring it out under the LegalGear name. I will see what I have available but we would probably do:

Androsterone
1-Androsterone
19NorAndrosterone

I will do some mixes...
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That's what I'm talking about!:cheers:
 
LegalGear said:
Ok, I will make up a test batch for the people on AM. We will bring it out under the LegalGear name. I will see what I have available but we would probably do:

Androsterone
1-Androsterone
19NorAndrosterone

I will do some mixes...
Click to expand...
ummm ill be happy to purchase a 19nor product.... I mean there is absolutely NO deca precursor or prohormone products out and havnt been since the ban.would be nice to have something to stack with all these dry copounds to alleviate stress on the joints that can onl help gains. plus my joints suck period so I would love something that would help.
 
Yeah, we have some test material laying around. I will see what I can come up with in a short amount of time. Should be about 2 weeks.
 
LegalGear said:
Yeah, we have some test material laying around. I will see what I can come up with in a short amount of time. Should be about 2 weeks.
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thats pretty damn quick!

are you planning on releasing a 19nor product anywho in capped form as well thus the testing material laying around? I think it would be great either way like I said since there are none in existance right now.
 
LegalGear said:
What do you think our company does for a living?

3bHSD - Forskolin Upregulates
Sulfotransferase - Inhibited by Luteolin/Quercetin
Glucoronidase - Inhibited by Silybinin and Piperine
Aromatase - Inhibited by ATD
5aReductase - Inhibited by Stinging Nettle
SHBG - Downregulated by Stinging Nettle

We have inhibitors for 17bHSD and other ones. These are all patent pending with respect to prohormones and is the main thing that seperates us from the competition. Why do you think Methyl 1-D works so well?

Methyl Masterdrol V2 has these ingredients in there too. Increases potency and increases activity! We license this to quite a few other people in the industry too. Our science goes FAR beyond finding new compounds. Any moron can put epi-androsterone in a capsule, but it takes science to make it work.
Click to expand...

Do you need a trained biochemist (Ph.D.) to help with all that?
 
LegalGear said:
Correct, it is not an androsterone derivitive it is an androstenedione derivitive. I expect the Androsterone derivitive would be even better than the dione based on the feedback given from all androsterones. People (like Pat Arnold) are just jealous that I thought of the concept of androsterones first and found the paper on oral testosterone showing the liver is not even an issue since prohormones get deactivated far before they even reach the liver...
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well if im the first then THANK YOU, and if im not the first THANK YOU lol
 
Finaly! Hahah i knew with just a little influence this could happen! Been talkin to E about this for a little minute now!
 
3clipseGT said:
Real "Prohormones " are not steroids or hormones before they enter the body. Once they enter the body and come in contact with the bodys enzymes 17bHSD ect ect, then it turns them into a prohormone that then converts to a hormone in the body, prosteroids or designers are ALREADY hormones before you even put them in your body and your body doesnt need to do anything to make them active.

Im pretty sure im correct on that. :lol:
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Prohormones are simply hormones that convert into another (the prefix pro- meaning "before, prior to" etc.). In the case of this discussion, we're referring to androgens (anabolic-androgenic steroids). Testosterone is a prohormone to DHT (5a-reductase enzyme) and also estradiol (aromatase enzyme).

Real "prohormones" in this case are also real "steriods" or "hormones", as a steroid is simply a hormone derived from cholesterol. This includes AAS, estrogens, progesterone, adrenal & corticosteriods, vitamin D, etc.

I think the confusion may be in reference to a prohormone's "activity" in the body, in terms of the bodybuilding application. DHEA & androstenedione are both prohormones with practically no anabolic or androgenic activity in males under 40 in normal ranges. But both are "prohormones", and both are "steroids." Then it has been said (PA & W. Llewellyn) that the diols tend to have some activity without converting to a 3-keto (not as much as the 3-ketos, though). Diols include 4-androstenediol, halodrol, M-1,4-ADD, which can also convert to testosterone, turinabol, and dianabol, respectively.

If you know of something that is not a steroid or hormone that can turn into one after enzyme activity, let me know cause I've never heard of it.
 
My Question

Why in the world would you put yohimbine IN a PH product?

Was your reasoning: well the sides aren't too bad from this compound, so I'll throw some Y in the mix in order to raise the sides?

LG I'm not expecting a response to this as much as I'm making a suggestion.
 
LegalGear said:
Totally different compounds 1-Androsterone and Androsterone are completely different. The 1- or 4- and other nomenclature defines the structure of the molecule.

1-Androsterone converts to 1-Test ultimately
Androsterone converts to Stanolone (DHT)
4-Androsterone converts to Testosterone
19Nor Androsterone (4-ene) converts to Nandralone (Deca) in the body
1,4 Androsterone (not yet released) converts to Equipoise in the body
4-OH Androsterone converts to HydroxyTest in the body

Androsterone (3a isomer) is better for anti-estrogen effects than epi-androsterone (3b isomer) but I believe the 3b to be much better for muscle building effects due to the increased amount of free 3bHSD in the blood and other tissues. There is also a lot of 3aHSD in the muscle which could activate, but it seems that it is semi-uni directional.
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whats the difference between test and test-1 ?
 
Ok, i have enough product laying around to make the dermals. They should be up this week actually.

We are going to use the throwback labels:

LGP 1-T - 4.5g - 1-Androsterone - $39.99
LGP 19Nor - 4.5g - 19NorAndrosterone (4-ene) - $44.95
LGP 5aA - 6g - EpiAndrosterone - $34.99
LGP Ecdy - 5g - Ecdytsterone Acetate - $34.99

They will be up on the legalgear.com site for order Monday or Tuesday for pre-ordering.
 
LegalGear said:
Ok, i have enough product laying around to make the dermals. They should be up this week actually.

We are going to use the throwback labels:

LGP 1-T - 4.5g - 1-Androsterone - $39.99
LGP 19Nor - 4.5g - 19NorAndrosterone (4-ene) - $44.95
LGP 5aA - 6g - EpiAndrosterone - $34.99
LGP Ecdy - 5g - Ecdytsterone Acetate - $34.99

They will be up on the legalgear.com site for order Monday or Tuesday for pre-ordering.
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Do we know what will be adequate dosing with these compounds in these forms and in this application?(trans)? will they be similar to the first gen pros that they are being named after?

With your planned amount set there are you assuming it will be a 4 week cycles worth?

just wondering how much we KNOW about these and how much are we "guinea"ing these with the dosing? I dont care either way just wondering.
 
poopypants said:
Do we know what will be adequate dosing with these compounds in these forms and in this application?(trans)? will they be similar to the first gen pros that they are being named after?

With your planned amount set there are you assuming it will be a 4 week cycles worth?

just wondering how much we KNOW about these and how much are we "guinea"ing these with the dosing? I dont care either way just wondering.
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Very good questions. When i ran 1androsterone oraly it was about the same mg for mg of 1-ad back in the day. It kind of is a little bit of guessing but from what ive already ran with the 1-andro they were pretty close. Maybe dose these a hair higher and your good to go.
 
They are about the same as our old formulas, so I expect similar results and as far as dosing you should get a pretty good dose since they are dosed daily. In comparison Androgel topical testosterone is dosed in 50mg, 75mg and 100mg doses. So, the doses of 120-200mg per day of the dermals should show good activity. People may want to throw in an extra dose to 3 per day to get to the 180-300mg range. I could up the amounts, but then the prices would have to go up, unfortunately the raws are really expensive.

I ran 1-Androstenediol as a dermal and I loved it, so I assume these will have a great effect.
 
LegalGear said:
Ok, i have enough product laying around to make the dermals. They should be up this week actually.

We are going to use the throwback labels:

LGP 1-T - 4.5g - 1-Androsterone - $39.99
LGP 19Nor - 4.5g - 19NorAndrosterone (4-ene) - $44.95
LGP 5aA - 6g - EpiAndrosterone - $34.99
LGP Ecdy - 5g - Ecdytsterone Acetate - $34.99

They will be up on the legalgear.com site for order Monday or Tuesday for pre-ordering.
Click to expand...

EXCELLENT! :box:
 
im glad i clicked on this thread. i originally thought it was 11-oxo which didnt do **** for me

im curious to see results. im not completely sold on transdermal anything but my curiousity is peaked by mmv2 now
 
LegalGear said:
They are about the same as our old formulas, so I expect similar results and as far as dosing you should get a pretty good dose since they are dosed daily. In comparison Androgel topical testosterone is dosed in 50mg, 75mg and 100mg doses. So, the doses of 120-200mg per day of the dermals should show good activity. People may want to throw in an extra dose to 3 per day to get to the 180-300mg range. I could up the amounts, but then the prices would have to go up, unfortunately the raws are really expensive.

I ran 1-Androstenediol as a dermal and I loved it, so I assume these will have a great effect.
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so for your LG 1-t what dosing scheme are we talking for a 230lber?
 
great to see transdermals making a comeback eric. if this pans out well, you should consider a 4-androsterone/1-androsterone combo
 
Not to mention a 4-OH Androsterone dermal. I loved a good 4oh trans back in the day, come on Eric bring me even more nostalgia.:D
 
We will, but these are the only ones I have laying around that I can make quickly. I will probably do a estra 4,9 Dione and a 4-OH dermal too.

Our LGP 4OHT was killer

4g 4-Androsterone
3g 1-Androsterone
2g 4-OH Androsterone

The 4,9 will be cool too.
 
LegalGear said:
We will, but these are the only ones I have laying around that I can make quickly. I will probably do a estra 4,9 Dione and a 4-OH dermal too.

Our LGP 4OHT was killer

4g 4-Androsterone
3g 1-Androsterone
2g 4-OH Androsterone

The 4,9 will be cool too.
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Oh yea E's got some nice things in the pipeline! If it was able to be done what would you guys think of a 19nor/formestane stack? I think that would be killer as well!
 
I'm pretty excited about all of these. I think some mixes would be nice for any subsequent runs, but I absolutely cannot complain. Thanks Eric:cheers:.
 
3clipseGT said:
Oh yea E's got some nice things in the pipeline! If it was able to be done what would you guys think of a 19nor/formestane stack? I think that would be killer as well!
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damn, this caught my eye..

from the days back when I used PH's, this looks to be the best of the bunch.
wow.. nice cutter.
 
LegalGear said:
We will, but these are the only ones I have laying around that I can make quickly. I will probably do a estra 4,9 Dione and a 4-OH dermal too.

Our LGP 4OHT was killer

4g 4-Androsterone
3g 1-Androsterone
2g 4-OH Androsterone

The 4,9 will be cool too.
Click to expand...
:woohoo::head:
 
LegalGear said:
We will, but these are the only ones I have laying around that I can make quickly. I will probably do a estra 4,9 Dione and a 4-OH dermal too.

Our LGP 4OHT was killer

4g 4-Androsterone
3g 1-Androsterone
2g 4-OH Androsterone

The 4,9 will be cool too.
Click to expand...





I can attest..it was a killer product. I'd buy a 4OHT precursor by the bucket full. Probably the best "feel good" compound ever that eats fat and builds hard muscle with few sides.
 
LegalGear said:
Ok, i have enough product laying around to make the dermals. They should be up this week actually.

We are going to use the throwback labels:

LGP 1-T - 4.5g - 1-Androsterone - $39.99
LGP 19Nor - 4.5g - 19NorAndrosterone (4-ene) - $44.95
LGP 5aA - 6g - EpiAndrosterone - $34.99
LGP Ecdy - 5g - Ecdytsterone Acetate - $34.99

They will be up on the legalgear.com site for order Monday or Tuesday for pre-ordering.
Click to expand...

Could you put a link in this thread, I just went to look and couldn't find them.
 
LegalGear said:
I think because they take full advantage of the body's enzyme system. Now don't confuse prohormones with prosteroids...two different catagories.
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that doesn't make sense.

if a prohormone is a substance that converts to a hormone, a prosteroid is specific term for a substance that converts to a STEROID hormone.
 
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