Big Lats
- Thread starter rhynoflex
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pistonpump
Banned
stop pulling with your arms! it takes alot of work. get your excersizes down and keep at it.
elscotto
Member
:goodpost:
yer dude wen u do say rows let ur shoulders hunch on the way down and wen u pull back squeeze ur back and stick ur chest out works for me
silverSurfer
Well-known member
I started noticing results from wide-grip pull-ups, but to Pistonpump's point you have to pull with your back. There is an exercise called "scapular row", it is an isolated move that focuses 100% on pulling with your back. Look it up, try it out, and notice the difference - scapular rows are supposed to be done in conjunction with another exercise.
Note: I'm not a pro, just sharing what I've learned and has given me results.
Note: I'm not a pro, just sharing what I've learned and has given me results.
pantera101
Banned
I always heard that different pull ups and pull downs were more for width and rows are for thickness.So if your lats are lagging do some wide pull ups,close(v bar)pull downs,and stiff arm push downs,then a row or two,maybe t-bar rows with bb rows.Do the width exercises first.
Pull ups helped me get the mind muscle connection going,they force you to be strict.I still like the pull downs for higher more controlled reps,or once i start wearing out on pull ups.When you do pull downs stay upright and pull down.Don't lean back and pull at an angle,i want to smack people in the head for this.It was designed to mimmick a pull up,so make it look like one.Let your arms lock out at top,it stretches the lats,i like to hold the stretch for a second or two.It helps blood get in there and will begin to hurt badly.Flex your lats too at home and stuff,i started doing this when i started getting some,and it helped.Later i read in a mag to do that cause it helps the mind muscle connection.
Pull ups helped me get the mind muscle connection going,they force you to be strict.I still like the pull downs for higher more controlled reps,or once i start wearing out on pull ups.When you do pull downs stay upright and pull down.Don't lean back and pull at an angle,i want to smack people in the head for this.It was designed to mimmick a pull up,so make it look like one.Let your arms lock out at top,it stretches the lats,i like to hold the stretch for a second or two.It helps blood get in there and will begin to hurt badly.Flex your lats too at home and stuff,i started doing this when i started getting some,and it helped.Later i read in a mag to do that cause it helps the mind muscle connection.
Gator Alum 03
Member
wide grip pullups and bent over dumbbell rows are your friend.
pistonpump
Banned
good point on the flexing. you must know how to flex your lats and do so because it will help the mind muscle connection like he said. When you say u want them to pop out what do you mean? width or thickness or both? do you have lats u just dont know how to flex/show them?
pantera101
Banned
I have heard it's very common for guys to not know how to flex lats.A pro was saying in amateur shows theirs always guys that can't hit lat spreads,he was helping a guy with his lat problem.You need to have both width and thickness in the end,but you might need to play catch up with one or the other in the process.I'm sure thats what pistonpump means,just clarifying.
EasyEJL
Never enough
hmmm nobody mentioned this. instead of grabbing the pulldown or other bars (row, etc) normally, do it without your thumbs. What i mean is have your thumbs be on the same side of the bar as your fingers, rather than wrapping around the other side. Then visualize your hands as just hooks. This helps take your biceps out of the equation.
The other thing you can do is work biceps first, then back. that will really help remove them from being active during the rows + pulldowns, but you will have to significantly reduce your normal working weights.
The other thing you can do is work biceps first, then back. that will really help remove them from being active during the rows + pulldowns, but you will have to significantly reduce your normal working weights.
pantera101
Banned
I always use the "hook grip" after reading about a pro using it.Working bi's first sound's weird and backwards to me,i guess i would have to try it and see what happens(i do arms on own day though).Some guys do flies or pullovers to pre exhaust chest to make it easier to contract on presses,so that just sounds wierd to me.
Thixotrope
Member
Try working out back twice a week
1st workout-
deadlifts pyramid up to a weight where you can only pull about 6 reps
T-bar Rows Keep it in the 6-10 rep range, 3 sets
Barbell Rows Again do 3 sets of 6-10 reps
2nd workout
Close Grip pulldowns-3 sets, no less than 10 reps per set
Low cable rows-3 sets, no less than 10 reps per set
One arm cable rows-3 sets, 12-15 reps per set
This program did wonders for my back development. It may sound weird but when I started doing deadlifts my entire body got more muscular and a lot stronger (including my then puny lats). I now consider my back to be my best developed body part.
Good luck!
1st workout-
deadlifts pyramid up to a weight where you can only pull about 6 reps
T-bar Rows Keep it in the 6-10 rep range, 3 sets
Barbell Rows Again do 3 sets of 6-10 reps
2nd workout
Close Grip pulldowns-3 sets, no less than 10 reps per set
Low cable rows-3 sets, no less than 10 reps per set
One arm cable rows-3 sets, 12-15 reps per set
This program did wonders for my back development. It may sound weird but when I started doing deadlifts my entire body got more muscular and a lot stronger (including my then puny lats). I now consider my back to be my best developed body part.
Good luck!
pantera101
Banned
That doesn't sound weird at all......it sounds just right.Thats why you always hear to sq and deadlift.......hard as hell very physically demanding execises,that will make you bigger all around when included into a well rounded routine.
bolt10
Well-known member
do it man they are so helpful in alot of ways
Thixotrope
Member
I know, but whenever I try to tell someone that they look at me like I'm stupid.
"How can a squat or a deadlift make my whole body stronger?"
Duh!
datBtrue
Well-known member
NEVER EVER EVER DO THIS. The back is a strong muscle(s)...you need your biceps not to give out before your back does. True you do things such as use straps or thumbless grips so as not to pull w/ the biceps instead of the back but that is entirely different then pre-fatiguing the biceps.
pantera101
Banned
People are stupid,they don't realise that big guys eat lots of food on top of lifting,they just assume everyone bigger is on roids.They just don't understand the foundation of becomming bigger and stronger.They prob sit back on their machines and cables shaking their heads as to why he attempts to sit down down and then stands back up once a week,and why he keeps picking that bar up off the floor.All the while thinking...see,he is on steroids,i work my bi's and chest every day,yet their much smaller than that crazy guy over their picking that bar up off the floor.
Thixotrope
Member
pantera101
Banned
You have to use proper form.If you don't know what to do it's very foreign.I have seen instructional videos and articles on how to do them correctly.Search a few to make sure their all basically the same,one might be better at explaining it then another too.
pistonpump
Banned
hex bar? wtf?
pistonpump
Banned
thats what i was thinking. When ive used those i feel it more in my legs with a standard bb i get more work outta my back....anyone else notice that? or maybe its just me?
Thixotrope
Member
Just looking at it makes me think you would use more quads than back. When you hold those bars at the side the forces exerted on you wouldn't be pulling you forward as in a traditional deadlift but more straight down which would more closely emulate a squatting movement.
Thixotrope
Member
If nothing else alternate the two...it couldn't hurt.
MovinWeight
Guest
A hex bar definitely works your legs more and back less than a normal barbell deadlift. With the hex bar you can keep your back almost perfectly straight up and down the entire time and use just your legs to lift the weight. With a barbell it is impossible to lift the weight with only your legs. Remember deadlifts are a back exercise, not a leg exercise. That's my opinion at least on this age old argument.
I definitely feel that deadlifts are the best back exercise there is. Look at any powerlifter with a good pull and they will undoubtfully have an awesome back to go along with it.
pantera101
Banned
As far as proper form goes,the thing that helped me the most was to make sur my butt and back raised evenly at the same time,then straighten up at tghe end when you are standing.A lot of guys will start right,but once they start going up their but raises first or faster than their back.They end up doing a stiff leg deadlift.Once i read that was proper form,i made a concious efort to do that.They also said their's no need to roll your shoulders back at the end cause they should already be in that position from beginning to end.("Pinched"not relaxed and "sagging")
MovinWeight
Guest
Unless your a powerlifter. I have read that if you can allow your arms and shoulders to completely relax that you can shorten your stroke by almost 6 inches. It allows you to start higher and finish lower. This isn't a very well known concept, but there are a few powerlifters here at home that easily pull 700+ pounds.
But as far as us bodybuilders go I feel that contracting the back is important for back development.
dawaro
Member
There was actually a very good article in M&F a few months back on deadlifts. I was looking through it at the airport and it intrigued me enough to buy the magazine.
While I am a puny guy I still do deads twice a week. I can tell you there is no other lift I do that comes close in intensity, even squats. When I finish a set my heart is racing, sweat is pouring and even at my puny work out weight of 265# I feel like an animal. A professional BB helped me a lot when I was getting my form down. The best two points of advice he gave me where to keep the bar as close to my shins/knees/thighs as possible through out the motion (I actually scap my knee caps most of the time) and to use a good set of straps so your grip does not hinder the amount you lift.
While it is a brutal exercise it is the last one I would take out of my routine.
If you gym has a power rack and you want to take the legs completely out of the lift you can always do rack deads. You will be surprised at the amount of weight you can do.
While I am a puny guy I still do deads twice a week. I can tell you there is no other lift I do that comes close in intensity, even squats. When I finish a set my heart is racing, sweat is pouring and even at my puny work out weight of 265# I feel like an animal. A professional BB helped me a lot when I was getting my form down. The best two points of advice he gave me where to keep the bar as close to my shins/knees/thighs as possible through out the motion (I actually scap my knee caps most of the time) and to use a good set of straps so your grip does not hinder the amount you lift.
While it is a brutal exercise it is the last one I would take out of my routine.
If you gym has a power rack and you want to take the legs completely out of the lift you can always do rack deads. You will be surprised at the amount of weight you can do.
PappaD
Member
I started adding heavy DB Deads and dead is a good name for them cause they kill ya!! I have never been so out of breath and sore all over! I love them now!!!!
pantera101
Banned
I forgot about keeping the bar close,i get scrapes and bruises almost everytime.I never get as close to truly blacking out as i do with deads,it starts to scare me sometimes :head: I use straps too,but only when i need to,towards the end.I want Lee Priest/Frank Mcgrath forearms.I don't like rack deads personally.Thats how i got my first ever back pains,i can feel it creeping up when i try them which is how it happened the first time,it took a month or two to get bad.Deads are the most powerful manly feeling exercise you can do,only sex makes you feel as much of a man/god as deads do,and i don't get much of that.........deads are my friend
(i would say keep it up and you'll be jitting twice that one day,but you already know that)
dawaro
Member
When I start doing deads I was off just a tiny bit in my form and it reaked havoc on my back. When the pro at the gym worked with me the first thing he did was drop the weight I was doing and make me concentrate on form. Once you really got the form down rack deads are just an extension of the standard. I very rarely do racks because I am looking more for the whole package.
Funny thing is how few people do them. I think I have only seen about 3 other guys at my gym do deads. About the same amount that do full squats...
pantera101
Banned
Very true.I love full deads and have perfect form,but rack deads are another story.I keep my back arched like you would with reg deads,but i feel pain in lower back,i feel no pain whatsoever with full deads.What was the pro's name that helped you?
I just started to realise that i may of been keeping the bar away from my body,not sure but i may have been.This was a while ago they hurt my back and when i tried them again i felt the same pain to a much lesser extent that ended up getting bad,so i dismissed them altogether.Right now i'm doing upper mon and thurs and legs tues and fri.Sometimes i don't do deads cause of sore hamstrings,so i will prob try rack deads mon keeping the bar close as with reg deads
I just started to realise that i may of been keeping the bar away from my body,not sure but i may have been.This was a while ago they hurt my back and when i tried them again i felt the same pain to a much lesser extent that ended up getting bad,so i dismissed them altogether.Right now i'm doing upper mon and thurs and legs tues and fri.Sometimes i don't do deads cause of sore hamstrings,so i will prob try rack deads mon keeping the bar close as with reg deads
datBtrue
Well-known member
Never. Would you work you triceps BEFORE you bench press?
If you did your triceps would fail before adequately taxing your chest...
...same w/ the back. You want your biceps to be fresh because they will be involved in all pulling movements...they are necessarily involved in pulling movements...
You also want your biceps to be in their stongest position as well. Here is Arthur Jones had to say about it the first bulletin he ever published (by-the-way there is a lot of very good information in those old bulletins):
The Latissimus muscle; most bodybuilders perform exercises for the
Latissimus muscles with a wide grip - under the sincere, but badly mistaken, impression that
such a wide hand spacing provides more "stretch" than would be afforded by a narrower grip.
Secondly, all conventional forms of chinning and "pull-down" exercises for the Latissimus
muscles involve working the upper arm muscles; and as noted previously, the weakness of
these arm muscles prevents the trainee from working the torso muscles as hard as he should
for best results. This being true, then why do most bodybuilders work their Latissimus muscles
with the arms in their weakest possible position?
We have already seen that the arms are strongest (for bending) when the hands are twisted
into a supinated position; this being so, then why make the arms any weaker than necessary -
when they are already too weak for the production of best results even in their strongest
position? Yet most bodybuilders do exactly that; they work their Latissimus muscles while
keeping the arms twisted into their weakest possible position.
By simply giving the hands the maximum possible twist in the direction of full supination, the
bending strength of the arms will be markedly increased; and it will then be possible to work the
Latissimus muscles much harder than it would have been with the hands in a pronated position.
Latissimus muscles with a wide grip - under the sincere, but badly mistaken, impression that
such a wide hand spacing provides more "stretch" than would be afforded by a narrower grip.
Secondly, all conventional forms of chinning and "pull-down" exercises for the Latissimus
muscles involve working the upper arm muscles; and as noted previously, the weakness of
these arm muscles prevents the trainee from working the torso muscles as hard as he should
for best results. This being true, then why do most bodybuilders work their Latissimus muscles
with the arms in their weakest possible position?
We have already seen that the arms are strongest (for bending) when the hands are twisted
into a supinated position; this being so, then why make the arms any weaker than necessary -
when they are already too weak for the production of best results even in their strongest
position? Yet most bodybuilders do exactly that; they work their Latissimus muscles while
keeping the arms twisted into their weakest possible position.
By simply giving the hands the maximum possible twist in the direction of full supination, the
bending strength of the arms will be markedly increased; and it will then be possible to work the
Latissimus muscles much harder than it would have been with the hands in a pronated position.
pantera101
Banned
definately thinking outside the box easye.Is that you in your avatar?If so,is it recent?You don't look 190,i guess all i got is the traps to base this off of.
EasyEJL
Never enough
yeah, half is around my waistline
I'm 190something at around 16-17% bf.I know I read it from one of the big name trainers, maybe on t-nation, the idea of doing the bis before back, or tris before chest occasionally just as a shocker. I just can't recall where the article was. It has seemed to work for me, I do put up higher #s the next workout. I wouldn't think of doing it for every workout.
dawaro
Member
When doing racks I start out at knee level with the bar touching my knee caps. The bar stays in contact with my thighs the entire range up. Since I started doing that I have never had any back pains.Very true.I love full deads and have perfect form,but rack deads are another story.I keep my back arched like you would with reg deads,but i feel pain in lower back,i feel no pain whatsoever with full deads.What was the pro's name that helped you?
I just started to realise that i may of been keeping the bar away from my body,not sure but i may have been.This was a while ago they hurt my back and when i tried them again i felt the same pain to a much lesser extent that ended up getting bad,so i dismissed them altogether.Right now i'm doing upper mon and thurs and legs tues and fri.Sometimes i don't do deads cause of sore hamstrings,so i will prob try rack deads mon keeping the bar close as with reg deads
I am a little embarrassed because I can not remember the pro's full name. His first name was Warren. He works out at the Gold's Gym in Midland, TX. I was there traveling for work for 6 weeks this summer and got to know him while I was there. He had retired from professional competition but he was still freaking huge. He was the biggest guy I have ever seen personally. He was a tremendous help to anyone that had a question. Helped me more in 6 weeks than any thing I have ever read.
cranghel099
Member
try some snatch grip deads, emphasize on spreading the lats out at the top of the movement, when your glutes are tightening
hit your pull's/chin's ups from every damn angle you can think of,
wide grip pulls, close grip pulls, close grip chins, strernum pulls etc.
STRETCH!!!
start stretching your lats like a mother, twice a day.
hang from a bar, till your grip gives out,
stretch them out by squating in front of a vertical pole (powerrack frame) and pull your lats out, one at a time, hold the postion for like 30 secs.
Practice, you gotta practice pushing them out, stand in front of a mirror and really try to push them out, you gotta play around with it for a bit, but it will come
hit your pull's/chin's ups from every damn angle you can think of,
wide grip pulls, close grip pulls, close grip chins, strernum pulls etc.
STRETCH!!!
start stretching your lats like a mother, twice a day.
hang from a bar, till your grip gives out,
stretch them out by squating in front of a vertical pole (powerrack frame) and pull your lats out, one at a time, hold the postion for like 30 secs.
Practice, you gotta practice pushing them out, stand in front of a mirror and really try to push them out, you gotta play around with it for a bit, but it will come
poopypants
Banned
this is perfect, all my pull downs and rows are done this way. i try to think of the foreams as just a hook on my elbows..... focus on pulling your elbows back behind you or to your sides and try not to flex your bis as much as possible.
I like the hammer strength machines especially the front lat iso pulldown, I do them one arm after the other allowing the other arm to stay extended under tension whil the other one can really focus on pulling with the lat, again using no thumbs, and alternating back and forth. Its a great exercise and works just as well if you have individual cable pull downs for each arm.
MovinWeight
Guest
This is an interesting idea and something I've never tried. A snatch grip is usually a very wide grip right? Like almost near the ends of the bar? I might have to try these.