pistonpump
Banned
that must be sweet! I just went into my first vitaminshoppe today, just opened. I think ill be shopping there now as far is real vitamins go. The whey prices arent bad either.
Careful with that AX! Pheraplex Log
- Thread starter celc5
- Start date
that must be sweet! I just went into my first vitaminshoppe today, just opened. I think ill be shopping there now as far is real vitamins go. The whey prices arent bad either.
celc5
Well-known member
Last Day!!! Day 35
Seems like everyone has the aforementioned topic under control :cheers: Hope all goes well in that department. From I understand, their powder is legit. Hmm, we need a UK NP to be sure service would be top notch for "fancy" items :think:
Week 5 Roundup
This was my final week of the cycle. I plan to do a summary/final review within the next few days.
Most sides this week were mild and mimicked everything else that occured throughout the cycle. Sleep was terrible, back pumps were mild, testicular atrophy is mild, bacne was moderate (and did increase) but no acne, lethargy was mild on most days and moderate 2 or 3 days.
I did cramp slightly this week in the quads and rotator cuff again.
Pistonpump will be excited to hear that I did have some nipple action this week... ew that REALLY sounded bad, you have issues :lol: j/p bro!!! I had some sharp tingles to the right nipple and occasional "pins and needles" feeling to the left. These feelings were transient. Maybe 30 seconds 1 to 2 times per day and then disappeared. I have no palpable lumpage.
A new side that became more prominent was "foggy" mental focus. I found myself dropping things and I'm not generally a clumsy person. I also found it difficult to achieve mental focus on a daily basis at work. Same occured for the drive home from work, although I'm usually only as good of a driver as Dustin Hoffman in Rainman
On the plus side, strength continued to increase. Again, phera makes you dangerously strong. I ran out of room on the leg press for calf raises using 12 plates on each side for 12 SLOOOOOW full range reps. I think it'd be dangerous to go any higher than that, but phera would have "made" me put on more plates if they would have fit :head:
I'm pretty sure I added a bit of lean mass this week (will do skinfolds as soon as I'm done typing this) and there appears to be no fat change across my body. MAYBE a bit of abdominal water retention but my chest actually looks tighter, probably from the low dose form.
Libido was average, sexual performance was average, and I have no complaints in that department from this cycle. I did notice a decrease in load size 2 times this week. But again, thankfully not as detrimental as I expected.
MOD EDIT: The discussion of where to get certain items will stop now or this will be closed and deleted.
Seems like everyone has the aforementioned topic under control :cheers: Hope all goes well in that department. From I understand, their powder is legit. Hmm, we need a UK NP to be sure service would be top notch for "fancy" items :think:
Week 5 Roundup
This was my final week of the cycle. I plan to do a summary/final review within the next few days.
Most sides this week were mild and mimicked everything else that occured throughout the cycle. Sleep was terrible, back pumps were mild, testicular atrophy is mild, bacne was moderate (and did increase) but no acne, lethargy was mild on most days and moderate 2 or 3 days.
I did cramp slightly this week in the quads and rotator cuff again.
Pistonpump will be excited to hear that I did have some nipple action this week... ew that REALLY sounded bad, you have issues :lol: j/p bro!!! I had some sharp tingles to the right nipple and occasional "pins and needles" feeling to the left. These feelings were transient. Maybe 30 seconds 1 to 2 times per day and then disappeared. I have no palpable lumpage.
A new side that became more prominent was "foggy" mental focus. I found myself dropping things and I'm not generally a clumsy person. I also found it difficult to achieve mental focus on a daily basis at work. Same occured for the drive home from work, although I'm usually only as good of a driver as Dustin Hoffman in Rainman
On the plus side, strength continued to increase. Again, phera makes you dangerously strong. I ran out of room on the leg press for calf raises using 12 plates on each side for 12 SLOOOOOW full range reps. I think it'd be dangerous to go any higher than that, but phera would have "made" me put on more plates if they would have fit :head:
I'm pretty sure I added a bit of lean mass this week (will do skinfolds as soon as I'm done typing this) and there appears to be no fat change across my body. MAYBE a bit of abdominal water retention but my chest actually looks tighter, probably from the low dose form.
Libido was average, sexual performance was average, and I have no complaints in that department from this cycle. I did notice a decrease in load size 2 times this week. But again, thankfully not as detrimental as I expected.
MOD EDIT: The discussion of where to get certain items will stop now or this will be closed and deleted.
celc5
Well-known member
Final Review
A copy of this same Final Review will also be posted on post #2, page 1 for convenience of future reference.
Cycle Summary
AX Pheraplex 20/30/40/40/40
Formestane 40-80mg TD (wks 4-5)
Weight: 193.4 --> 202.4 (+9)
LBM: 162.34 --> 169.83 (+7.49)
Fat: 31.06 --> 32.57 (+1.51)
BF%: 16.06 --> 16.09 (+0.03%)
Goals were to gain 8-10lbs of LBM without changing bf%.
Pheraplex Pros
1. Enhanced drive to workout constantly and to work out HARD every session.
2. Enhanced strength. Very noticable strength gains throughout the entire 5 weeks of the cycle even though strength is was not a focus on this routine.
3. Lean mass gains. Of particular note were changes to overall look of shoulders, chest, and lats.
4. Improved libido in weeks 1-3. Average libido in weeks 4-5. Although it is quite possible that libido would have tanked in the 4th and 5th week had it not been for the addition of formestane.
5. Calm to slightly enhanced mood in wks 1-3. Temper and irritability were not issues throughout the entire cycle.
Pheraplex Cons
1. Eratic sleep patterns throughout the entire cycle.
2. Lethargy weeks 3-5.
3. Poor mental focus in weeks 4-5. Not problematic during workouts, but moreso during work, driving, and normal typical daily activities.
4. Very mild back pumps. Only problematic with deadlifts and BO rows. Otherwise, they were just enough to notice their presence throughout the day.
5. Abnormal sensations to nipples. Luckily, this never turned out to be problematic for me. However, if you have a history of gyno, estrogenic rebound, or prolactin issues, I strongly recommend against the use of pheraplex.
Discussion
I found pheraplex to be surprisingly mild. That being said, I was happy with my lean mass gains. Overall body comp gains seemed to slow around the day 21 point for me. If I were to run this cycle again, I would have bridged with a lean mass builder around the third week. However, had strength been my primary goal, I have no doubt that a modest 30mg for 4-6 weeks would suffice to pile on the weights.
People seem to like to discuss pumps, and let me tell you, they were most certainly there during and post workout. Vascularity was mildly enhanced as well. Pumps became problematic at the very end of the cycle with cramping.
I personally did NOT find pheraplex to be very androgenic. It did not affect my mood. It had only a very very mild impact on my hairline. I would have expected to be very susceptable to both of these sides. A point of note, others do occasionally report androgenic sides with phera.
I am NOT susceptible to acne/bacne issues and lucky to have clear skin. I had some noticable bacne through most of the cycle. If you are one of the unlucky ones who does not have clear skin, be sure to prepare accordingly.
I do NOT believe phera to be a "wet" compound. I believe this to be myth because of sloppy diets. Keep your carbs under control and you won't put on fat. Keeping carbs at bay may or may not have played a part in lethargy. On the other hand, I usually do not have enhanced endurance in the gym when I monitor carbs. Take from that what you wish.
Finally, and maybe most importantly, I did not have any lumps or problematic nipple sensitivity. I did have an occasional "pins and needles" feeling to the nipples. Again, if you are susceptible, steer clear of phera.
A copy of this same Final Review will also be posted on post #2, page 1 for convenience of future reference.
Cycle Summary
AX Pheraplex 20/30/40/40/40
Formestane 40-80mg TD (wks 4-5)
Weight: 193.4 --> 202.4 (+9)
LBM: 162.34 --> 169.83 (+7.49)
Fat: 31.06 --> 32.57 (+1.51)
BF%: 16.06 --> 16.09 (+0.03%)
Goals were to gain 8-10lbs of LBM without changing bf%.
Pheraplex Pros
1. Enhanced drive to workout constantly and to work out HARD every session.
2. Enhanced strength. Very noticable strength gains throughout the entire 5 weeks of the cycle even though strength is was not a focus on this routine.
3. Lean mass gains. Of particular note were changes to overall look of shoulders, chest, and lats.
4. Improved libido in weeks 1-3. Average libido in weeks 4-5. Although it is quite possible that libido would have tanked in the 4th and 5th week had it not been for the addition of formestane.
5. Calm to slightly enhanced mood in wks 1-3. Temper and irritability were not issues throughout the entire cycle.
Pheraplex Cons
1. Eratic sleep patterns throughout the entire cycle.
2. Lethargy weeks 3-5.
3. Poor mental focus in weeks 4-5. Not problematic during workouts, but moreso during work, driving, and normal typical daily activities.
4. Very mild back pumps. Only problematic with deadlifts and BO rows. Otherwise, they were just enough to notice their presence throughout the day.
5. Abnormal sensations to nipples. Luckily, this never turned out to be problematic for me. However, if you have a history of gyno, estrogenic rebound, or prolactin issues, I strongly recommend against the use of pheraplex.
Discussion
I found pheraplex to be surprisingly mild. That being said, I was happy with my lean mass gains. Overall body comp gains seemed to slow around the day 21 point for me. If I were to run this cycle again, I would have bridged with a lean mass builder around the third week. However, had strength been my primary goal, I have no doubt that a modest 30mg for 4-6 weeks would suffice to pile on the weights.
People seem to like to discuss pumps, and let me tell you, they were most certainly there during and post workout. Vascularity was mildly enhanced as well. Pumps became problematic at the very end of the cycle with cramping.
I personally did NOT find pheraplex to be very androgenic. It did not affect my mood. It had only a very very mild impact on my hairline. I would have expected to be very susceptable to both of these sides. A point of note, others do occasionally report androgenic sides with phera.
I am NOT susceptible to acne/bacne issues and lucky to have clear skin. I had some noticable bacne through most of the cycle. If you are one of the unlucky ones who does not have clear skin, be sure to prepare accordingly.
I do NOT believe phera to be a "wet" compound. I believe this to be myth because of sloppy diets. Keep your carbs under control and you won't put on fat. Keeping carbs at bay may or may not have played a part in lethargy. On the other hand, I usually do not have enhanced endurance in the gym when I monitor carbs. Take from that what you wish.
Finally, and maybe most importantly, I did not have any lumps or problematic nipple sensitivity. I did have an occasional "pins and needles" feeling to the nipples. Again, if you are susceptible, steer clear of phera.
pistonpump
Banned
great log.
thundergod
Well-known member
Celc5--- Congrats Bro! One of the most helpful and concise logs I've seen on any forum anywhere! I'm thinking about doing a log when I get around to my next cycle. Should be soon. I'll be taking a lot of tips from you, my friend!! Odin Bless and Keep You (and your muscle gains)!!
celc5
Well-known member
Thanks to all 3 of you guys for following and helping me out :cheers:
Easy, I figure I'll do an update every week or 2 just to discuss progresss, sort of how I did the weekly summaries. I'm not using any fancy supplments that are hype-worthy in my post cycle plan, and I'm pretty sure I have a solid HST plan already set up. I don't anticipate there being enough day to day changes to warrant a complete log.
One thing that I'll mention already is that, in my cycle log, I may have underestimated the amount bloat that I had. My abs seem to have reappeared already :think:
Easy, I figure I'll do an update every week or 2 just to discuss progresss, sort of how I did the weekly summaries. I'm not using any fancy supplments that are hype-worthy in my post cycle plan, and I'm pretty sure I have a solid HST plan already set up. I don't anticipate there being enough day to day changes to warrant a complete log.
One thing that I'll mention already is that, in my cycle log, I may have underestimated the amount bloat that I had. My abs seem to have reappeared already :think:
thundergod
Well-known member
Like I said Celc, it always seems to bloat me as well. That's where the form is pretty necessary, at least to me. Have a wonderful PCT pal!
EctoPower
Active member
Awesome job brother! I would love to get your thoughts on how HST works for your PCT. Other than that, good job and good luck in the next few weeks!
:squat:
celc5
Well-known member
So far I had 1 workout and it was MURDER. Lethargy is taking it's good old time and the longer workout with less rest was tough. I bet that will fade as time goes. Having the option for so many whole entire days off is going to help out in the long run for a post cycle plan... i hope :lol:
I"ve had a stomach virus these past few days and BP is climbing now that I'm not taking phera any more. I also suspect it's because I stopped taking taurine. I added it back in the mix today and will continue to use it for a while.
celc5
Well-known member
Post Cycle Week 1 Update
Post Cycle Therapy Week 1 Update
60mg Torem
80mg TD Form
3 caps Activate Extreme
6g Nitrix
3g Creakik (Preworkout only)
3 caps Primaforce ZMA
6 g Taurine
400mg Sam-E
1.5g Hawthorne
500mg Salymarin
Omegas, Vitamins, Niacin, etc
Let's get right down to the BIG mistake. Upon conclusion of phera, I stopped taking Taurine. Keep in mind, I was able to keep back pumps at bay on cycle. By day 2 post cycle, I was nausiated and cramping to the abdominal region, peeing every 8 seconds, and as lethargic as Vince Palpale after his first day of training camp :lol:
I thought for sure that these symptoms were due to a stomach virus that I was exposed to on several occaisons. By the third day, I started to have severe kidney pain, to the point where it was a struggle to walk. SOB, it was BACK PUMPS! What an idiot! I crammed in about 6g of taurine all at once with about 1/2 gallon of water. Wallah, problem solved within 24 hours.
My personal theory is that phera stays active in your system for about 5 days after stopping dosage. Other theories are welcome, of course.
Sides:
-Improved sleep patterns (thank the Lord!!!)
-Libido is shaky, but nothing that trib, etc can't fix
-testicular mass is slowly gaining ground (honestly there wasn't much atrophy in the first place)
-no others to note
During workout pumps continue to be outstanding. Obviously, post workout pumps aren't there like while I was on.
I may have underestimated the amount of water I was holding in my belly. I've dropped about 2 pounds, look lean as hell, and my shoulder/lat/chest combo still looks really nice.
Again, phera helped me get a nice V-taper that my genetics just never gave me with all these years of lifting. This altered upper body shape is such a pleasant result of the cycle.
Final note, I'm having an absolute blast with HST as my post cycle routine. The days off in between workouts are fantastic in allowing my body to recover. One thing I've learned, HST is better the SECOND time around as you will have a better overall feel for what works for you. I'm using typical HST plans for chest and arms but have an A/B split for legs, shoulders, and back. PERFECT in terms of volume, but we'll see how results go after 6 weeks
Post Cycle Therapy Week 1 Update
60mg Torem
80mg TD Form
3 caps Activate Extreme
6g Nitrix
3g Creakik (Preworkout only)
3 caps Primaforce ZMA
6 g Taurine
400mg Sam-E
1.5g Hawthorne
500mg Salymarin
Omegas, Vitamins, Niacin, etc
Let's get right down to the BIG mistake. Upon conclusion of phera, I stopped taking Taurine. Keep in mind, I was able to keep back pumps at bay on cycle. By day 2 post cycle, I was nausiated and cramping to the abdominal region, peeing every 8 seconds, and as lethargic as Vince Palpale after his first day of training camp :lol:
I thought for sure that these symptoms were due to a stomach virus that I was exposed to on several occaisons. By the third day, I started to have severe kidney pain, to the point where it was a struggle to walk. SOB, it was BACK PUMPS! What an idiot! I crammed in about 6g of taurine all at once with about 1/2 gallon of water. Wallah, problem solved within 24 hours.
My personal theory is that phera stays active in your system for about 5 days after stopping dosage. Other theories are welcome, of course.
Sides:
-Improved sleep patterns (thank the Lord!!!)
-Libido is shaky, but nothing that trib, etc can't fix
-testicular mass is slowly gaining ground (honestly there wasn't much atrophy in the first place)
-no others to note
During workout pumps continue to be outstanding. Obviously, post workout pumps aren't there like while I was on.
I may have underestimated the amount of water I was holding in my belly. I've dropped about 2 pounds, look lean as hell, and my shoulder/lat/chest combo still looks really nice.
Again, phera helped me get a nice V-taper that my genetics just never gave me with all these years of lifting. This altered upper body shape is such a pleasant result of the cycle.
Final note, I'm having an absolute blast with HST as my post cycle routine. The days off in between workouts are fantastic in allowing my body to recover. One thing I've learned, HST is better the SECOND time around as you will have a better overall feel for what works for you. I'm using typical HST plans for chest and arms but have an A/B split for legs, shoulders, and back. PERFECT in terms of volume, but we'll see how results go after 6 weeks
milwood
Registered User
HA! Valid question! Scarecly trolling the AM halls anymore....just busy with lots of stuff.
I'll be around a bit more in months to come, and will be running some stuff in the summer! Have been off for almost 2 years.
Thanks for asking!
thundergod
Well-known member
Celc5--- Wallah? Is that knida like Voila? LOL. I'm just being an a$$! Glad to hear everything's fine in PCT world bro. Now you agree with me about the proverbial "phera bloat"? It's a fact no matter how strict one diets or takes in gallons of water everyday. Still good sh*t though! That form should tighten everything up nicely though. That stuff is the schizz!
thundergod
Well-known member
Mr. Milwood--- Never had the privilege of talking to you Bro. I've read alot of old threads lately with your name all over them. Great stuff! I got a small stash of M-dien,M-5AA, and M1T I'm looking to do something with in a few weeks. Any ideas on a cycle? I thought maybe 2 weeks of M1t at 20 mg. per day, then 2 more weeks of M-dien at 12 or 16 mg. per day. The m-5AA would be pre-workout only at 50 mg. before every workout. What do ya think? I'm 43 years old, 6'3 and 270 lbs. with about 20 years of lifting behind me. Any suggestions would be welcome.
milwood
Registered User
Ah, yes... Lots of old discussions about those particular goodies. It's so funny that all that stuff was everywhere and cheap! I mean, you could get a lifetime supply of M5AA powder for like $100. Well, maybe not quite, but 3-4 different companies (Custom, Designer, etc.) had the stuff by the gram. 1Fast400 had things like formestane by the kilo...
Seems like you're headed the right way, but personally I'd shine the M1T. Granted, it's still considered a powerful "prosteroid" (and I still see it available on underground price lists with things like Test E, cyp, tren, winny, etc. (so I guess ppl are still buying/running it), but I would personally choose one of the newer, cleaner (less harsh) things to kick it off for a couple weeks.
Again, that's just me. No reason why it won't work, and you can see many have done it successfully. As for that and the rest, I think the only concern would be all those methyls at once. Perhaps in this day and age, people don't seem to be as worried, but back then the concern would be M1T (very harsh) plus MDien (pretty harsh) plus M5AA (less so, but still methylated) might be an injustice to your liver.
I think if you didn't stack the M1T and the MDien you could do it. So I think that was your idea, right? M1T for 2 weeks, then switch to MDien and run the M5 throughout pre-w/o? I kinda like it; you're a big guy and you have plenty of lifting under your belt. So your cycle would be 4 weeks? I think your dosages are right on. I think you'd find success with this. How many workouts per week, and what's your calorie consumption like? You might even be able to stretch it out to 5-6 weeks, although others may caution you against it. Actually, with the M1T and MDien, you're gonna be shut down pretty hard, so 4 is prolly better...
I'll be interested to see how you go!
thundergod
Well-known member
Appreciate it milwood. By the way, would you know of any sources where I could find more M-dien and M-5AA? For "research reasons" of course! For my dog! LOL! PM me if you know of any. I may save the M1T for later. I never got to try it before, so I wanted to see what the buzz was about. I may do methoxy trn with the M-Dien and M-5AA instead. Be a good cutting cycle.
milwood
Registered User
Wow, I don't know if anybody has any more MDien or M5, aside from probably a couple old schoolers who stocked their freezers up. Someone might have some MDHT, which was pretty popular when used as is M5 (fast acting pre-w/o stuff) because that stuff was "by the gram" pretty much right up to the ban, as I recall. But then that ban was in '04 (I think, right?) and now it's '08 (how the hell did that happen?)
How much Mdien do you have? I think it would be a good cycle to run that for like 6 weeks, but start it off low dose and work into it.
How much Mdien do you have? I think it would be a good cycle to run that for like 6 weeks, but start it off low dose and work into it.
poopypants
Banned
ban was set in 04 and put into effect in jan of '05 and all retailers were still allowed to liquidize stock till i think march.
milwood
Registered User
Nice, poopy! Poopy is current champion of "Anabolicminds Idol" in the category of Ban Trivia, in case any of you were wondering. He also has a couple other belts, and I think a Sandoval or 2 for humor... :thumbsup:
poopypants
Banned
ahhh I was hoping I won a Darwin award too... 
EctoPower
Active member
ahhh I was hoping I won a Darwin award too...
Not yet, but everybody can dream bro! :lol:
celc5
Well-known member
PCT Wk2 Update
Post Cycle Week 2
Torem 45
120mg TD form
3 caps ActivateX
3 Caps Primaforce ZMA
6g Nitrix
3g Creakik
Continued all above supports; dropped Taurine around day 10
Testicular mass fully returned by day 10. Libido is a bit shaky still. I have some reason to believe that divanil may negatively affect my libido. I'm well aware that the consensus says the opposite, but it's just something that has been in the back of my mind. It's difficult to soley "blame" divanil in any of these cases because it's always been in a stack or in post cycle. Either way, it's not a major concern for me right now as I'm still functioning just fine :head:
Lethargy and mental fog from on cycle is beginning to clear up, although it's still present to some extent.
Workouts are great, and strength gains from the cycle are NOT dwindling. I'm definately liking HST much more the second time around, especially with the A/B split to avoid overtraining.
Body comp wise, I've lost a few pounds but still look really hard. I've gotten a few subjective compliments from the last 2 girls that saw me naked. It's interesting that they notice more of a change now while I'm leaning out a bit, than they did while I was obviously growing on cycle :think: Again, as thundergod is saying, I may have underestimated the amount of bloat that I had on cycle.
Post Cycle Week 2
Torem 45
120mg TD form
3 caps ActivateX
3 Caps Primaforce ZMA
6g Nitrix
3g Creakik
Continued all above supports; dropped Taurine around day 10
Testicular mass fully returned by day 10. Libido is a bit shaky still. I have some reason to believe that divanil may negatively affect my libido. I'm well aware that the consensus says the opposite, but it's just something that has been in the back of my mind. It's difficult to soley "blame" divanil in any of these cases because it's always been in a stack or in post cycle. Either way, it's not a major concern for me right now as I'm still functioning just fine :head:
Lethargy and mental fog from on cycle is beginning to clear up, although it's still present to some extent.
Workouts are great, and strength gains from the cycle are NOT dwindling. I'm definately liking HST much more the second time around, especially with the A/B split to avoid overtraining.
Body comp wise, I've lost a few pounds but still look really hard. I've gotten a few subjective compliments from the last 2 girls that saw me naked. It's interesting that they notice more of a change now while I'm leaning out a bit, than they did while I was obviously growing on cycle :think: Again, as thundergod is saying, I may have underestimated the amount of bloat that I had on cycle.
poopypants
Banned
celc OT kinda ? for ya bro. what lot # and exp date was on your Pheraplex bottle?
poopypants
Banned
More liekely then not Celc its the 2 I highllighted above causing the drop in libido. stoping any previously formed estrogen dead in its tracks with the SERM and then eliminating the formation of any more estrogen with the AI drops your est levels VERY low. This is great in regards to the fact it will make your body freak out and got nutty with test production to try and aromatize some and make up for the loss, wich is desired in PCT. At the same time there is a minimum amount of estrogen required in the body to support a healthy libido... you are probably treading on that line right now.
thundergod
Well-known member
Hey Celc5--- glad to hear PCT is going well. Except for the libido maybe. Question: How long are you going to be on the Torem? And also, did you throw some trione powder in your form when you brewed it up? I always do. 5 grams of form and 5 grams of trione per 8 ounce bottle of penetrate. I'm thinking some trione would help out with the libido. It does mine! Big time! Next time around you might want to replace divanil with some bulk testofen. I like it much better. I give it an A+ for libido boosting! And it's lots cheaper on top of it all. Use the 1fast400 from amazon.com for a magnificent deal.
celc5
Well-known member
Poopy, I'm not sure what ya meant with "OT kinds." Spell it out for me as I'm a bit slow today
I can't remember the lot number but both bottles expired 10/08. I payed a fair trade for them, and was really happy with what I got out of the cycle in terms of aesthetics. I gotta say, strength has NOT dwindled either 2 weeks into post cycle :head:
I'm riding the fence in terms of eliminating estrogen. I could see if I had both at higher dosages but I was thinking that I'm conservatively dosing both. On the other hand, I tend to REALLY respond to AI's at a slightly lower dosage than most people. A few people on the boards have suspected that I naturally have lower estrogen. I plan to get some bloodwork a few weeks after post cycle is through, and I'd like to get hormonal panel as well.
I will strongly consider your suggestion, if I ever run another cycle. Thanks for the suggestion poop :thumbsup:
Thunder, I'm dosing the torem 60/45/30/15 so 4 weeks total. I never did add the trione because the TD is getting sloppy in terms of storage and carting it with me after the clubs on weekends. I'm running out of stories when I apply a transdermal at the ladies' places :lol:
I'm going to add hyperdol this week, as per the form/6brom trials that seemed to be EXTREMELY successful last summer. If libido drops further, I'll back off on the AI's and it will confirm poop's theory. Either way, I'll adjust on the fly. Thanks for sticking it out the whole through fellas!
I can't remember the lot number but both bottles expired 10/08. I payed a fair trade for them, and was really happy with what I got out of the cycle in terms of aesthetics. I gotta say, strength has NOT dwindled either 2 weeks into post cycle :head:
I'm riding the fence in terms of eliminating estrogen. I could see if I had both at higher dosages but I was thinking that I'm conservatively dosing both. On the other hand, I tend to REALLY respond to AI's at a slightly lower dosage than most people. A few people on the boards have suspected that I naturally have lower estrogen. I plan to get some bloodwork a few weeks after post cycle is through, and I'd like to get hormonal panel as well.
I will strongly consider your suggestion, if I ever run another cycle. Thanks for the suggestion poop :thumbsup:
Thunder, I'm dosing the torem 60/45/30/15 so 4 weeks total. I never did add the trione because the TD is getting sloppy in terms of storage and carting it with me after the clubs on weekends. I'm running out of stories when I apply a transdermal at the ladies' places :lol:
I'm going to add hyperdol this week, as per the form/6brom trials that seemed to be EXTREMELY successful last summer. If libido drops further, I'll back off on the AI's and it will confirm poop's theory. Either way, I'll adjust on the fly. Thanks for sticking it out the whole through fellas!
poopypants
Banned
Poopy, I'm not sure what ya meant with "OT kinds." Spell it out for me as I'm a bit slow today
I can't remember the lot number but both bottles expired 10/08. I payed a fair trade for them, and was really happy with what I got out of the cycle in terms of aesthetics. I gotta say, strength has NOT dwindled either 2 weeks into post cycle :head:
I'm riding the fence in terms of eliminating estrogen. I could see if I had both at higher dosages but I was thinking that I'm conservatively dosing both. On the other hand, I tend to REALLY respond to AI's at a slightly lower dosage than most people. A few people on the boards have suspected that I naturally have lower estrogen. I plan to get some bloodwork a few weeks after post cycle is through, and I'd like to get hormonal panel as well.
I will strongly consider your suggestion, if I ever run another cycle. Thanks for the suggestion poop :thumbsup:
Thunder, I'm dosing the torem 60/45/30/15 so 4 weeks total. I never did add the trione because the TD is getting sloppy in terms of storage and carting it with me after the clubs on weekends. I'm running out of stories when I apply a transdermal at the ladies' places :lol:
I'm going to add hyperdol this week, as per the form/6brom trials that seemed to be EXTREMELY successful last summer. If libido drops further, I'll back off on the AI's and it will confirm poop's theory. Either way, I'll adjust on the fly. Thanks for sticking it out the whole through fellas!
Sounds good, I personally love Hyperdrol, great stuff. Even with conservative doses though you may be getting to a low point with your est... like you said just keep on top of it and if needs be lower doses.
BTW the OT thing was "I hava an off topic kinda question for ya" a bit jumbled its easy to mix up.
well the bottle I have here of PP doesnt expire till 09 so I think its gonna be a plenty dandy cycle when I get to using it this spring. glad to hear strength is holding :head:
thundergod
Well-known member
Hey poops--- You gonna run the phera straight or maybe mix it with something dry like epi or tren? I'm running phera stacked with methoxy TRN and I'm liking it alot! Strength is coming on strong in this second week!
bassgod272
Well-known member
Hey guys, I feel like a total newb asking this question but I can't seem to find the exact anabolic:androgenic ratios for phera and superdrol. I would be better off taking the phera pre-workout and the superdrol later in the day during the bridge week, right? Or am i totaly bass ackwards? LOL. THANKS!
p.s. that's great to hear the strength hasn't dwindled at all during PCT celc! Def good news.
p.s. that's great to hear the strength hasn't dwindled at all during PCT celc! Def good news.
poopypants
Banned
LOLLOLOLOLOLOLOL :twisted:
you want to see my cycle plans????? :twisted:
I have it saved on my notepad on my user CP and just like to stare at it sometimes. :twisted:
cycle plan (torem and nolva on hand)
--------4-AD-------/---Phera-Plex---/----M-TRN----/-----ADEX---
1. 300mg (150mg x2)/----------------/--------------/--.25mg EOD
2. 300mg (150mg x2)/ 10mg (preW.O.)/--------------/--.25mg EOD
3. 300mg (150mg x2)/ 20mg (10mg x2)/--------------/--.25mg EOD
4. 400mg (200mg x2)/ 20mg (10mg x2)/--------------/--.25mg EOD
5. 400mg (200mg x2)/ 30mg (10mg x3)/ 1.5mg (prewo)/--.25mg EOD
6. 400mg (200mg x2)/----------------/ 3mg (1.5 x2) /---as needed
7. 400mg (200mg x2)/----------------/ 3mg (1.5 x2) /---as needed
8. 400mg (200mg x2)/----------------/ 4.5mg (1.5 x3)/--as needed
gonna blow up then cut up :head: expect at least 18lbs of maintainable mass after this cycle.... shiiii got 17 from phera alone the first time I ran it... cant imagine what is gonna happen with trans 4-AD in the mix.
thundergod
Well-known member
I think I saw the ratios on the androgenic/anabolic properties of superdrol and phera-plex on their Anabolic Xtreme web-site. Just my opinion, but I think phera is stronger androgenically, so would be better for the pre-workout dose. Then the superdrol later in the day. Actually I read that superdrol pretty much converts to or at least raises DHT. Great for pre-workout aggression! Either way, you won't go wrong!
thundergod
Well-known member
Sounds great poopy. Here's what I'm doing as we speak. 10 days ago I started taking 25 mg. of phera a day (I have 10 mg and 15 mg. caps). Then 6 days ago I added 3 caps(4.5 mg.) of methoxy trn and also 12 mg. of Underground Labs M-Dien per day also. I lowered the phera down to just 15 mg. per day with this. So far I'm getting strong as a freaking mule! I'll keep you guys informed through PM's. Don't want to hijack Celc's thread here. By the way Celc, this is THE best log I have ever read! Great stuff!
EctoPower
Active member
Holy sh*t, dude... You've got man-sized cajones going for that! If you log it, let us know where because I wanna see this. Lot's of good stuff in there and the plan seems solid. Good luck bro. When is the start date for that fiesta?
celc5
Well-known member
No such thing as a hijack in my thread Thunder. You guys stuck around and contributed beyond the norm in my thread. You're welcome to discuss whatever you want, that's why I kept the first 2 posts dedicated to summaries :head:
Also, I've always logged this way with my ALRI stack, halo cycle, and NP NHA stack. I think I don't get sponsored logs though because I make it very clear when supplements suck and never hype up anything other than formestane, TRAC Extreme NO, and halo.
By the way, my 4 supplement categories for rating are:
-Waste of money
-Effective but less than expected
-Exactly as expected
-Above expectations
Phera was as expected and well worth it! I do recommend it.
Ecto, you feeling the urge to up the ante on your cycle? :rofl: Seriously, minimal consequence with halo, stick to it for round 1
Bassgod, I say hogwash on the a:a ratios. Thunder found phera to be very androgenic and I found halo to be about 10x more androgenic than phera. In other words, you won't know till you try it because everyone responds so differently to these fun little gems
Do you guys have any opinions on what muscles have a greater number of androgenic receptors than others?
Also, I've always logged this way with my ALRI stack, halo cycle, and NP NHA stack. I think I don't get sponsored logs though because I make it very clear when supplements suck and never hype up anything other than formestane, TRAC Extreme NO, and halo.
By the way, my 4 supplement categories for rating are:
-Waste of money
-Effective but less than expected
-Exactly as expected
-Above expectations
Phera was as expected and well worth it! I do recommend it.
Ecto, you feeling the urge to up the ante on your cycle? :rofl: Seriously, minimal consequence with halo, stick to it for round 1
Bassgod, I say hogwash on the a:a ratios. Thunder found phera to be very androgenic and I found halo to be about 10x more androgenic than phera. In other words, you won't know till you try it because everyone responds so differently to these fun little gems
Do you guys have any opinions on what muscles have a greater number of androgenic receptors than others?
thundergod
Well-known member
Celc5--- You are one of the most affable and courteous persons I have ever seen on these forums. Never any tongue-lashing or flaming! And I agree with what you told Bassgod. The a:a ratios don't mean so much. That's why I told him he wouldn't go wrong with taking either one pre-workout over the other. What I am interested in finding is something that STRONGLY converts to DHT. Can't find anymore M-5AA, primaforce methyl rage, gangsta test, or mestanolone these days. But I would love to. Or some methyl DHT! These ARE great for pre-workout aggression! Anybody got some frozen old goodies for sale? PM me please!
bassgod272
Well-known member
thundergod
Well-known member
Mestanolone IS still around
I just PM'ed you friend. Where you're thinking of they're out of stock. And they don't produce it anymore, so SOL!!! Anyone else know where I can score some of the fore-mentioned goodies?
EctoPower
Active member
Ecto, you feeling the urge to up the ante on your cycle? :rofl: Seriously, minimal consequence with halo, stick to it for round 1
Celc,
No way dude, Poopy's stack would destroy my virgin receptors!
Halo is good so far. I caught a b*tch of a cold last week that I'm still fighting off. Haven't missed any workouts and I'm still eating a ton, so it shouldn't affect my overall results. But I don't really have the advertised increase in well-being because my body is sort of like, "Dude, you're sick... but I want to lift heavy *ss weight too! What the?" Just a little out of sorts. I'm getting good focus and aggression in the gym and my lifts are excellent. Strength is rapidly increasing and I'm up roughly 4 pounds as of today (day 8). I've got some creatine water weight right now (continued the creatine because I wanted to have an accurate picture of how Halo increased strength), so I won't know for sure how this goes until 1 week post PCT.
But I like it so far. Looking forward to next week when it REALLY kicks in.
BTW, no back pumps, lethargy, or high BP headache (going to check it today or tomorrow anyway). So things are good, other than this damn cold.
celc5
Well-known member
Flu symptoms but no fever. Sounds like the good ol methyl flu. I got it with halo too around day 4 and it was gone by day 10. Keep the cals and fluids up and you'll be fine
Eh, enhanced mood is subjective I guess. Just remember not to get too angry around day 20, cause halo made me a real bithc
EctoPower
Active member
Flu symptoms but no fever. Sounds like the good ol methyl flu. I got it with halo too around day 4 and it was gone by day 10. Keep the cals and fluids up and you'll be fine
Ooooo, really? I thought about it being methyl flu for a second, but decided I probably just picked up what my co-worker had because we had the same symptoms. It may be a bit of both though.
Anyway, I have no intention of stopping, short of me getting pneumonia. Fluid intake is outstanding and my cals are pretty much on target. I'll just keep plowing through it.
Wait, wasn't that the case anyway? :lol:
So, anger around the end of week three, eh? No problem. I'll channel it for my workouts.
poopypants
Banned
LOL it may look intimidating but its a very solid plan all around. With the exception of 4-ad Ive ran all these.
This is basically the equivilent of running a test base (cept 4-AD instead) with an oral kicker and then adding tren into the end to solidify gains. only one of these compounds is methylated and the 4-AD is transdermal this should all make it lots easier on the liver.
Since Ive ran these before I know what doses I will respond to well (notice most the trn is dosed low... that stuff works for me VERY well) and the Phera isnt dosed high either since I ran that exact dose before and made exceptional gains.... the 4-AD dose was decided after weeks of research and finding old stickies bout dosing protocols for this compound so Im starting on the low end and although I have it planned to ramp up I will only do so if I feel I will have something to benifit from it and will happily relower it if needs be due to any sides.
Its going to be my first cycle thats ever gone this long and with this many supps .... not to mention I havnt cycled since last august.... should be nutty.
Dont have any garunteed dates for starting yet since I have some tester obligations but sometime this spring would be preffered... plus im still making good gains natty, just hit 200 and the most Ive ever weighed previously was 195 and that was chemically enhanced so Im stoked cause this cycle will prob put me in reach of my over all goals of 210+ and 9-12%
Thanks for the openess of the log Celc, good to be able to see information/logging and chat too without someone getting their panties in a bunch.
poopypants
Banned
NO shiii!!! id think theres somethin terribly wrong if strength wasnt off the hook with that stack!!! just make sure to not get ahead of yourself bro and get hurt... that kinda strength gain can do it to ya if your not careful. Id love to hear how it treats ya so def keep us updated.
thundergod
Well-known member
Will do poopypants! Strength is really coming on strong now. Something else I want to mention and get some feedback from guys like you, celc, and pistonpump. I have 5 bottles of Biosciences Technologies Methoxy TST. Tripdog said he only takes this stuff pre-workout like M-5AA. He takes 12 mg. (they are 2 mg. per cap) PWO and said it gives him great aggression. I'm throwing this one in the mix as well. Just took 8 mg.( thought 12 mg. might be strong for the first time usage) and getting ready to workout in 2 hours. He said he prefers 2 hours PWO over just 1 hour. I've been trying to get some M-5AA from England but to no avail. Didn't know the TST was so androgenic. Do you guys think it converts to, or at least raises DHT? This is what I'm hoping it will do for my PWO anger and aggression. Any feedback guys?
celc5
Well-known member
Week 3 Post Cycle
Week 3 Post Cycle Therapy
Torem 30
Hyperdrol 4 caps
Formestane 120mg TD
Activate Extreme 3 caps
Reduce XT 3 caps
*finished off creatine and no products
*occasional RPM or SMASH preworkout, Xtend or Purple Wrath during
Strength is well maintained, if not increasing as normally expected off cycle. Body comp continues to move in the right direction, although I've dropped about 4 or 5 pounds since the cycle. I purposely avoided skinfolds to this point, but I'd guess that I'm somewhere around 15-15.5% bf (as opposed to around 16% at the end of the cycle). Obliques and the lower ab V are well visible, but the 6pack only makes cameo appearances at the end of workouts.
On the down side, lethargy and mental fog are still mild issues. They are very slowly becoming less of an issue but it's dragging out longer than I had hoped.
I credit the body comp changes to the HST routine. I feel that it's continued the positive change from phera, especially in the lats/chest region. Legs and traps are always strong points so they always look good. Arms and shoulders continue to be weaknesses for me, although they are slowly progressing... sloooooowly! :rant:
Libido is up and down but testicular mass has returned completely, but I think that was the case during week 2 anyway. Sexual performance has not been affected, and possibly very slightly enhanced.
Regarding the supplments, I added hyperdrol just in time. My formestane completely crashed this morning. Unfortunately, it was not salvagable. I feel like the Hyperdrol might be adding to a bit of hardness, but otherwise it's too soon for any effect IMO.
RPM consistently delivers for me. I enjoy the mild stim. I do recommend RPM.
SMASH gives excellent pumps but the stim effect is inconsistent. It will drive me through a workout on 1 day (even to the point of enhancing strength a bit) and the next it will leave me with a "wiped out" feeling 20 minutes into the workout. It's not worth the inconsistent results. I do not recommend this product.
I plan to continue to update weekly.
Week 3 Post Cycle Therapy
Torem 30
Hyperdrol 4 caps
Formestane 120mg TD
Activate Extreme 3 caps
Reduce XT 3 caps
*finished off creatine and no products
*occasional RPM or SMASH preworkout, Xtend or Purple Wrath during
Strength is well maintained, if not increasing as normally expected off cycle. Body comp continues to move in the right direction, although I've dropped about 4 or 5 pounds since the cycle. I purposely avoided skinfolds to this point, but I'd guess that I'm somewhere around 15-15.5% bf (as opposed to around 16% at the end of the cycle). Obliques and the lower ab V are well visible, but the 6pack only makes cameo appearances at the end of workouts.
On the down side, lethargy and mental fog are still mild issues. They are very slowly becoming less of an issue but it's dragging out longer than I had hoped.
I credit the body comp changes to the HST routine. I feel that it's continued the positive change from phera, especially in the lats/chest region. Legs and traps are always strong points so they always look good. Arms and shoulders continue to be weaknesses for me, although they are slowly progressing... sloooooowly! :rant:
Libido is up and down but testicular mass has returned completely, but I think that was the case during week 2 anyway. Sexual performance has not been affected, and possibly very slightly enhanced.
Regarding the supplments, I added hyperdrol just in time. My formestane completely crashed this morning. Unfortunately, it was not salvagable. I feel like the Hyperdrol might be adding to a bit of hardness, but otherwise it's too soon for any effect IMO.
RPM consistently delivers for me. I enjoy the mild stim. I do recommend RPM.
SMASH gives excellent pumps but the stim effect is inconsistent. It will drive me through a workout on 1 day (even to the point of enhancing strength a bit) and the next it will leave me with a "wiped out" feeling 20 minutes into the workout. It's not worth the inconsistent results. I do not recommend this product.
I plan to continue to update weekly.
bassgod272
Well-known member
Awesome to hear strength is being maintained bro. Do you think the few pounds lost was just water weight? Did you experience the mental fog/lethargy during your h-drol cycle and PCT? That sucks the form crashed man. That's why I bought e-form for my cycle. It's more expensive, but I wont have to worry about it crashing. I'll buy penetrate and bulk form next time though, for price reasons. Lookin forward to the updates.
celc5
Well-known member
Ya I think a pound or 2 was water weight. It made my abs look leaner right away in the first week of post cycle. I think I've also lost a pound or 2 of fat and maybe 1-2 pounds of the lean mass as well. All are estimates of course.
No, I didn't have mental fog with halo. I did have lethargy, but I think it was more of a "burned out" feeling. My life was considerably more stressful during that cycle. The lethargy subsided after the first week of post cycle therapy after the halo cycle, which is why I'm confused about how long it's lasting this time around.
I have been using eform for 2 or 3 years on and off with stacks, etc etc. It was sold out when I was planning my cycle so I went with the bulk this time around. What a pain in the asss!
No, I didn't have mental fog with halo. I did have lethargy, but I think it was more of a "burned out" feeling. My life was considerably more stressful during that cycle. The lethargy subsided after the first week of post cycle therapy after the halo cycle, which is why I'm confused about how long it's lasting this time around.
I have been using eform for 2 or 3 years on and off with stacks, etc etc. It was sold out when I was planning my cycle so I went with the bulk this time around. What a pain in the asss!
bassgod272
Well-known member
hmmm, that's really weird that the lethargy/foggyness is still there 3 weeks into PCT. I wonder what is causing it? You ever use torem before?