wrkn4bigrmusles
Registered User
not sure if you mentioned it already or i missed it... do you take anything to combat the "pump" .. like taking taurine?
Phera/Epi Log
- Thread starter DBinMD
- Start date
DBinMD
Member
Yeah, I researched for about 2 months before I decided on what I wanted to do. Most of the info came from this sight. If you don't mind, how long was your cycle and what were your doses?
Thanks
DB
DBinMD
Member
I work out in the evening mostly because that's when my metabolism is highest. I've tried morning wo's with a friend for about 3 years. It was worth having a spotter, but I just never got used to it. It seems a morning wo would be better because you'd take most of the anabolics after working out and any stims would be gone by night time, too.
I never got much in the way of back pumps or such. Just one leg wo, and not even on my dead lift days. I bought some taurine when the first event happened but never used it. That was one of the reasons I stacked the phera and epi. Phera is supposed to be wet and epi dry and I didn't want the back pumps, etc. My lower back was a little tight the last couple weeks but nothing much.
Let me know how it goes, if you don't log it, pm me.
DB
wrkn4bigrmusles
Registered User
Sounds good DB... the last time i used PP i would get wicked leg pumps cause i was still doing cardio every other day.. but i did PP alone. so i'll see how it goes... i too bought some taurine just in case.
i will log it on my own but may or may not post it. cause im kinda bad with keeping up with it..
i will log it on my own but may or may not post it. cause im kinda bad with keeping up with it..
dadream
Member
I believe I ran the cycle for around 2 months.
The first two weeks I took the Epidrol alone at 20mgs I believe. Then i started to take 10mgs Original AX PP only on workout days an hour prior to my workout. I continued this for two weeks. Thereafter I took both Epi (20mgs)and PP (20mgs) everyday until the PP ran out, so i was probably only taking the PP for a little under a month b/c i only had one bottle. And i finished the last two weeks or so with 30mgs Epi. Gained about 7-8lbs of lean mass, never experienced any bloat while on the PP probably due to the low doses, strength increases were excellent and experienced little if any "suppression" judging by testicular atrophy not by blood tests. Towards the end, though my joints were a little dry and worn only negative side i can comment on.
The first two weeks I took the Epidrol alone at 20mgs I believe. Then i started to take 10mgs Original AX PP only on workout days an hour prior to my workout. I continued this for two weeks. Thereafter I took both Epi (20mgs)and PP (20mgs) everyday until the PP ran out, so i was probably only taking the PP for a little under a month b/c i only had one bottle. And i finished the last two weeks or so with 30mgs Epi. Gained about 7-8lbs of lean mass, never experienced any bloat while on the PP probably due to the low doses, strength increases were excellent and experienced little if any "suppression" judging by testicular atrophy not by blood tests. Towards the end, though my joints were a little dry and worn only negative side i can comment on.
DBinMD
Member
PCT and Post PCT
PCT and Start of Post PCT
Original Start Point and Goals
Goals by the end of post cycle therapy.
---------------Start ----Goal ---- Start of PCT 2/5 ----- Post PCT (3/13) -- change
Height --------5’5”------------------------------------------5'5" ----------- 0
Body weight---186 ------195 ---- 198 --------------------188.0 --------------+2
Waist -------- 36 -------36 ------37.0 --------------------35.5 -------------- -.5
Bench* -------260x7---310x8 --- 310x5 (almost 6)--------310x4.5 -------- +1.5 reps
V squat*------ 685x6 --700x8 ----740x8 ------------------685x8 --------- +2 reps
Dead lift ----- 505x2 --525x6 --- 505x3 -----------------505x3 ------------+1 rep
*315x3 is normal for me. My bench dropped the week before Christmas so my starting weight was below normal. Today was leg day, but I only got 4 hrs. sleep last night, so it’s possible I would have done better.
The 1st 3 weeks of PCT sucked. I was real mopey and caught a cold. All of my lifts were down. Cardio sucked, I couldn’t get my heart rate up to the cardio zone. I figured I might be suppressing too much estrogen so I dropped the HDX2. I picked it back up again at 2 caps/day the first week after the SERM ended and 1 cap/day the next week. I’ve never done a SERM before so I don’t know what to compare it to.
Last week, near the end of week 4 of the SERM, my lifts and body weight started coming back. Today I’m about 0 to 1.5 reps from my peak.
Net body weight gain so far is only 2 lbs, but since I lost .5 inch on my waist during this time, I’d say it’s closer to an 3-5 lb gain in lean mass. Cardio is back into full swing, too. . Hopefully, I’ll get a little more back next week and I’ll be pretty close to where I left off at the end of the cycle in terms of strength. I didn’t have much in gain in final size.
The only odd thing is BP went up after I was done the SERM. I’m not sure why, could be because I’m pretty sure I’ll be losing my job soon. I’m scheduled to see my family doc on the 24th, anyway.
Post cycle: These are the PC specific supps
liquid tamoxifen citrate 40/40/20/20
Retain2 caps 3/3/2/1
Primaforce Cissus
Cissus.
HDX2 4/3/0/0/2/1
NAC
Other:
acetyl-carnitine
multivitamin
R-ala
arginine
bcaa
gaba
glucosamine
zinc/mag
omega -3
vitamin c
long jack
Current Sups:
New: I started these on Saturday (3/8 four days ago)
cycle support, half dose (it’s a lot cheaper this way) – I want to see if it will help with the BP and my cholesterol can run a little high. I’ll give it until the 24th to see some progress.
Plcar - .8g (as much as I can fit into one 000 cap)
Beta Alanine – 3.6g (1 tsp)
Day:
Alcar - .8g (as much as I can fit into one 000 cap)
multivitamin
R-ala – average of .4gms
bcaa – 20-40 gms for during and post wo. The higher number is for days when I know I won’t be able to eat right away. Even buying bulk, I’m not sure the expense is worth it. I may cut back or eliminate it.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin 2/1.5 gms
Omega-3 4-6gms
Vitamin c .5gms
Whey – 100 gms
Long Jack – 1–1.5 gms
Creatine 5 gms on wo days(6)
Night –
Gaba 6-12 gms
Zinc/Mag
Melatonin 1.5gms
Arginine Pyruvate(sp?) 3gms on lifting days (4).
PCT and Start of Post PCT
Original Start Point and Goals
Goals by the end of post cycle therapy.
---------------Start ----Goal ---- Start of PCT 2/5 ----- Post PCT (3/13) -- change
Height --------5’5”------------------------------------------5'5" ----------- 0
Body weight---186 ------195 ---- 198 --------------------188.0 --------------+2
Waist -------- 36 -------36 ------37.0 --------------------35.5 -------------- -.5
Bench* -------260x7---310x8 --- 310x5 (almost 6)--------310x4.5 -------- +1.5 reps
V squat*------ 685x6 --700x8 ----740x8 ------------------685x8 --------- +2 reps
Dead lift ----- 505x2 --525x6 --- 505x3 -----------------505x3 ------------+1 rep
*315x3 is normal for me. My bench dropped the week before Christmas so my starting weight was below normal. Today was leg day, but I only got 4 hrs. sleep last night, so it’s possible I would have done better.
The 1st 3 weeks of PCT sucked. I was real mopey and caught a cold. All of my lifts were down. Cardio sucked, I couldn’t get my heart rate up to the cardio zone. I figured I might be suppressing too much estrogen so I dropped the HDX2. I picked it back up again at 2 caps/day the first week after the SERM ended and 1 cap/day the next week. I’ve never done a SERM before so I don’t know what to compare it to.
Last week, near the end of week 4 of the SERM, my lifts and body weight started coming back. Today I’m about 0 to 1.5 reps from my peak.
Net body weight gain so far is only 2 lbs, but since I lost .5 inch on my waist during this time, I’d say it’s closer to an 3-5 lb gain in lean mass. Cardio is back into full swing, too. . Hopefully, I’ll get a little more back next week and I’ll be pretty close to where I left off at the end of the cycle in terms of strength. I didn’t have much in gain in final size.
The only odd thing is BP went up after I was done the SERM. I’m not sure why, could be because I’m pretty sure I’ll be losing my job soon. I’m scheduled to see my family doc on the 24th, anyway.
Post cycle: These are the PC specific supps
liquid tamoxifen citrate 40/40/20/20
Retain2 caps 3/3/2/1
Primaforce Cissus
Cissus.
HDX2 4/3/0/0/2/1
NAC
Other:
acetyl-carnitine
multivitamin
R-ala
arginine
bcaa
gaba
glucosamine
zinc/mag
omega -3
vitamin c
long jack
Current Sups:
New: I started these on Saturday (3/8 four days ago)
cycle support, half dose (it’s a lot cheaper this way) – I want to see if it will help with the BP and my cholesterol can run a little high. I’ll give it until the 24th to see some progress.
Plcar - .8g (as much as I can fit into one 000 cap)
Beta Alanine – 3.6g (1 tsp)
Day:
Alcar - .8g (as much as I can fit into one 000 cap)
multivitamin
R-ala – average of .4gms
bcaa – 20-40 gms for during and post wo. The higher number is for days when I know I won’t be able to eat right away. Even buying bulk, I’m not sure the expense is worth it. I may cut back or eliminate it.
Glucosamine/Chondroitin 2/1.5 gms
Omega-3 4-6gms
Vitamin c .5gms
Whey – 100 gms
Long Jack – 1–1.5 gms
Creatine 5 gms on wo days(6)
Night –
Gaba 6-12 gms
Zinc/Mag
Melatonin 1.5gms
Arginine Pyruvate(sp?) 3gms on lifting days (4).
DBinMD
Member
Alright, final post, unless something momentus happens.
It's 45 days since then end of my cycle and 17 days since last dose of tamox. Not much change from last post except I’m up another 1.5lbs and still lost a little more around the middle. Not sure why, but I’m not complaining.
Final (compared to day 1)
Weight 189.5 +3.5lbs
Waist 35, -1 inch
For me, waist size is about 5lb/inch. At this point I doubt if I’m holding any extra water weight. So I think I can reasonably claim about 8-9lbs of stable added muscle. I didn’t reach all of my strength goals, but I’m think I’m better off at a leaner 189lb than the original goal of 196. If I do this again I definitely won’t go past day 35.
I see my family doc on Monday for a followup from Dec, maybe I can talk him in to a blood test. Since it's Easter, I'm just gonna rest up and probably not hit the gym until Monday (well maybe if the weather is shitty tomorrow).
Thanks all for the support.
DB
It's 45 days since then end of my cycle and 17 days since last dose of tamox. Not much change from last post except I’m up another 1.5lbs and still lost a little more around the middle. Not sure why, but I’m not complaining.
Final (compared to day 1)
Weight 189.5 +3.5lbs
Waist 35, -1 inch
For me, waist size is about 5lb/inch. At this point I doubt if I’m holding any extra water weight. So I think I can reasonably claim about 8-9lbs of stable added muscle. I didn’t reach all of my strength goals, but I’m think I’m better off at a leaner 189lb than the original goal of 196. If I do this again I definitely won’t go past day 35.
I see my family doc on Monday for a followup from Dec, maybe I can talk him in to a blood test. Since it's Easter, I'm just gonna rest up and probably not hit the gym until Monday (well maybe if the weather is shitty tomorrow).
Thanks all for the support.
DB