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Gaining on PCT???

Muscle T said:
is it possible to get bigger and stronger while on post cycle therapy?...if so how??
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IMO I want to say no to "bigger and stronger" as you should have been getting bigger and stronger through a cycle if you're doing post cycle therapy. PCT is to help your body in fulfilling it's homeostasis process/balance and not intended to help you get bigger. You can still gain to some degree to the high levels of test decreasing in your body during PCT but not to getting "bigger and stronger". Though as I'm thinking, I have heard that one can use Havoc/Epi for PCT but diminish the doses over time so then again, I don't see how one can get "bigger and stronger" through PCT.

Chime in anyone...
 
maynehood can u elaborate on the havoc/epi post cycle therapy comment. am very intrigued here, that would be cooooooll, but wouldnt that just be an extension of your cycle and not pct, i guess im just really not ready to believe that you dont need pct from havoc/epi. ON the other hand I ran x-factor in my last post cycle and actually saw some good results, not fantastic but pretty darn good. only prob was my body was so beat up from lifting so heavy on the cycle that the x-factor just aggravated the small strains and pulls that had accumulated.
 
mooch2321 said:
maynehood can u elaborate on the havoc/epi post cycle therapy comment. am very intrigued here, that would be cooooooll, but wouldnt that just be an extension of your cycle and not post cycle therapy, i guess im just really not ready to believe that you dont need post cycle therapy from havoc/epi. ON the other hand I ran x-factor in my last post cycle and actually saw some good results, not fantastic but pretty darn good. only prob was my body was so beat up from lifting so heavy on the cycle that the x-factor just aggravated the small strains and pulls that had accumulated.
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Since it is said that Havoc/Epi have SERM-like characteristics...it can be used for post cycle therapy in low doses along with whatever other supps you want to incorp. (read this somewhere!) Though I personally wouldn't have been running havoc/epi during the cycle and just use it at post cycle therapy for this effect. Pulsing Havoc/Epi RIGHT shows great potential for using a mild PCT or even none at all as even those running these supps everyday have seen little to no muscle loss during PCT and after...also little to no suppression (though everyone is different). So far I'm in week 3 of pulsing Havoc 3-4x/wk and feeling no shutdown and good gains so far...up 7lbs and strength is right up there also!

One needs to remember that just because you're on something steroidal that they are not the hulk, your ligaments and tendons are not like our muscles and can be greatly damaged if one thinks that they can up the weight fast and hard...as my motto proclaims...everything in moderation!

I'm no expert but from experience, I'd go light reps/sets for a week or two to give yourself a break from all the crazy lifting you just put your body through. Maybe even add in some extra days off in between to recover...(Source: My brother is a natural 168lb body --- 365lb bencher who is a weight trainer and teaches me ALOT of things pertaining to this business...)

--All this info is the opinion of me and the opinions of a few others...
 
Using Epi/Havoc during pct sounds very intriguing indeed. Has anyone tried this with bloodwork? However due to my buddies recent bloodwork after coming off epidrol showed that the original Epi/Havoc claims of "very gently on your liver compared to other ph's" is bullsh!! IMO. I think this claim may have been a bit overstated. It is after all methylated. Plus it seems to me using Epi/Havoc as some sort of pct could dramatically increase your chances of being shutdown. Isn't Epi/Havoc basically an irreversible steroidal inhibitor such as exemestane? To me it seems like that method is basically like coming off of a steroid by using a weaker steroid, but still a steroid nonetheless. It seems much safer & more efficient to use a non-steroidal inhibitor such as Nolva or another non-steroidal serm... IMO at least.
 
I wouldn't advise running Epi/Havoc during your PCT, even at extremely low doses. Your body is already shut down and I don't see any benefit in putting another potentially suppressive compound into your body. I remember hearing all the SERM-like rumors when Epi first came out but I have yet to see any proof of it really having an effect. I feel it would be taking a serious risk if you continued using an anabolic/suppressive compound during your PCT. I think you are much better off running a standard SERM PCT, along with all the normal auxiliary drugs/supplements and maybe losing a few pounds or a little strength. Your body will be back and up and functioning in no time and you will be back making gains soon enough.
 
drewh10987 said:
I wouldn't advise running Epi/Havoc during your post cycle therapy, even at extremely low doses. Your body is already shut down and I don't see any benefit in putting another potentially suppressive compound into your body. I remember hearing all the SERM-like rumors when Epi first came out but I have yet to see any proof of it really having an effect. I feel it would be taking a serious risk if you continued using an anabolic/suppressive compound during your PCT. I think you are much better off running a standard SERM PCT, along with all the normal auxiliary drugs/supplements and maybe losing a few pounds or a little strength. Your body will be back and up and functioning in no time and you will be back making gains soon enough.
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This guy speaks the truth. Good post man.
 
depending on the compound, you can get more gains in PCT. But most of the designer orals we are talking about don't do that.
 
Yeah I got to thinking about it again at work today and just got me thinking that it wouldn't be feasible since it is still a methylated supp. I wish I could find that post again that def stated that it could be used for PCT for its SERM-like characteristics but I was just passing through the thread...where ever it was...though personally I still only plan on sticking to traditional pct therapy using havoc for cycle...
 
people have talked about it, but I don't know if anyone actually had done it, and particularly with bloodwork. it would take someone who was a dr or lab tech and could pull their own hormone panel pre cycle, end of cycle, and a few times during PCT
 
EasyEJL said:
people have talked about it, but I don't know if anyone actually had done it, and particularly with bloodwork. it would take someone who was a dr or lab tech and could pull their own hormone panel pre cycle, end of cycle, and a few times during post cycle therapy
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Yea I just don't see it being feasible, and it's definitely not worth the risk. Plus why risk potential furthering your level of suppression and in turn ruining your post cycle. I remember seeing ads for Epi that mentioned all of its SERM like effects, but I have never seen any logs or bloodwork to back that up.
 
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