Ideas for boosting low test

[Leggo my Ego]

My Father-in-law was diagnosed the other day with very low test levels and the doc prescribed him test cream, which I don't think is going to be of very much help to him. I would think it would make sense to try to kickstart his natural production rather than inhibit it. I don't know exactly how low his levels are as he didn't get a copy of his bloodwork results.:frustrate The cream is gonna cost $200 per month and I think for less than that, he could do other things to boost his natural production. The only thing is, he is also diabetic and I want to be careful of what OTC products I recommend to him. I was thinking of recommending DHEA at 75mg per day and was thinking of a tet booster. I am hesitant to recommend one containing an aromatase inhibitor though as I wouldn't want hid lipids to suffer as a result. I also thought of telling him to ask his doc for HCG and/or clomid. Maybe he could pulse an AI and avoid the Lipid problems??

any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[MarkLA]

Something compounded will be < $100/month.

Also I don't think AI would be advised unless a blood test indicates too much E2. You have to test first to determine that.

Mark

 

[JanSz]

My Father-in-law was diagnosed the other day with very low test levels and the doc prescribed him test cream, which I don't think is going to be of very much help to him. I would think it would make sense to try to kickstart his natural production rather than inhibit it. I don't know exactly how low his levels are as he didn't get a copy of his bloodwork results.:frustrate The cream is gonna cost $200 per month and I think for less than that, he could do other things to boost his natural production. The only thing is, he is also diabetic and I want to be careful of what OTC products I recommend to him. I was thinking of recommending DHEA at 75mg per day and was thinking of a tet booster. I am hesitant to recommend one containing an aromatase inhibitor though as I wouldn't want hid lipids to suffer as a result. I also thought of telling him to ask his doc for HCG and/or clomid. Maybe he could pulse an AI and avoid the Lipid problems??

any suggestions are appreciated.

Look thru my threads,
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-2.html

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/77385-jansz-metabolic-analysis.html

Thre is a good possibility that he is diabetic because his test is low.

There is no need to spend $200/month on creams.
Usually they are of not much help anyway.
If he is diabecic, he is very familiar with 31ga needles.
Same needles should be used for testosterone injections.
9mo to a year supply he can get for $100.

Before he does that have him do a blood test (at Quest Diagnostics) that I listed on my post #44,
that list cost me out of pocket $6, balance paid courtesy of Medicare.
It would provide many informations on his condition.

If you really love him, ask him to do the other tests that I list, at Genova Diagnostics.

I am 67yo, I appreciate caring son in law.
=============================================
Get copies of all test reports from his doctor.
Retype them or scan and post all of them here.
Do not start another thread, keep everything in one place.

 

[Leggo my Ego]

Thank you, I apprieciate your feedback. I should have mentioned that he is type 2 diabetic so no needles yet. I never thought that his diabetes could be caused by low test?!?!? I think this is the 1st time his doc ran a sex hormone panel.

You mentioned 9 months to a year of test for 100 bucks? Is that prescribed?? That's cheap! I was wanting to stay away from anything "nonprescribed" or intended for research purposes.

Thanks again for your input. I'm going to read through the threads you posted

 

[Leggo my Ego]

Reps to ya by the way, JanSz

 

[DoctorJohn]

You can get compounded testosterone gel (or combination testosterone/DHEA gel) for much less than that. I've seen as inexpensive as $40-$45 per month. Make sure its a reputable compound pharmacy, cheaper isn't better if the raw material are poor quality. The gels absoutely work. I have several patients who have doubled their testosterone with them. Remember to look at the free(direct) levels as most important.You don't want to raise the testosterone outside a reasonable way anyway (easier to do with injectibles).
If he doesn't mind injections every 7-10 days, injectible testosterone Rxed by his doctor is relatively inexpensive. A $150 vial typically lasts 15-20 weeks. As other threads have mentioned, low dose HCG every 3 days is excellent to keep the natural HTPA axis working.

 

[DoctorJohn]

Even mainstream medicine now recognizes the relationship between low testosterone and insulin resistance. Diabetic patients should have their testosterone checked and consider replacement if necessary. It will lower their blood sugars and can decrease the need for insulin or other oral hypoglycemics.

 

[cpeil2]

Thank you, I apprieciate your feedback. I should have
You mentioned 9 months to a year of test for 100 bucks? Is that prescribed?? That's cheap! I was wanting to stay away from anything "nonprescribed" or intended for research purposes.

More like 200 if paying out of pocket. Insurance may or may not cover at least a portion of that. Some carriers will only pay for transdermals such as creams or gels.

Lab testing is the biggest cost. If it is covered by insurance, it isn't a big issue. But if you need to pay out of pocket for any reason, the cost is significant.

JanSz's recommended panel, for example, that he only pays $6.00 for because Medicare covers the rest would cost about $3000 if paid for out-of-pocket.

 

[DoctorJohn]

I've had pretty good luck with insurance covering bloodwork unless you order obscure tests or order too frequently. Yes, if the insurance doesn't cover the bloodwork, it is $1500-$2500 depending on whats ordered.

$100 for 9 months is too little, I'd be concerned about the purity of the product. The raw materials cost more.

 

[JanSz]

More like 200 if paying out of pocket. Insurance may or may not cover at least a portion of that. Some carriers will only pay for transdermals such as creams or gels.

Lab testing is the biggest cost. If it is covered by insurance, it isn't a big issue. But if you need to pay out of pocket for any reason, the cost is significant.

JanSz's recommended panel, for example, that he only pays $6.00 for because Medicare covers the rest would cost about $3000 if paid for out-of-pocket.

More like $3500.

The key is in proper documentation.
That mean ICD-9 codes.

I post mine codes under the blood test list.

 

[JanSz]

Thank you, I apprieciate your feedback. I should have mentioned that he is type 2 diabetic so no needles yet. I never thought that his diabetes could be caused by low test?!?!? I think this is the 1st time his doc ran a sex hormone panel.

You mentioned 9 months to a year of test for 100 bucks? Is that prescribed?? That's cheap! I was wanting to stay away from anything "nonprescribed" or intended for research purposes.

Thanks again for your input. I'm going to read through the threads you posted

Ok the $100 is somewhat stretch.
You can actually buy for $100 a 30mL vial of compounded testosterone.

Same testosterone but in 10mL vial cost $50
Always script needed.

The problem with 30mL vial is that it last that long and I would start worrying about integrity of rubber stopper on the vial due to multitude of needle penetrations.
Sic, the smaller needle the longer rubber will last.

What I do now is E2D injections.
Testosterone + Liquidex one day and HCG on the other.

Many if not most people do not do well on once a week injections, so the next for me was E3D.
Because I am primary and my balls are for decoration only,
for long time I was doing E3D schedule, on that day I would take T + hcg + Liquidex all at the same time.

I noted fluctualtion in hardnes of my balls, so I thought of E3D T shots + Liquidex and on the 2 days in between HCG shots.
But that is a shot everyday.

Much better E2D T + Liquidex and HCG on days in between.
I keep my average weekly dose of T and Liquidex steady.

I use 31ga 5/16" long needle 3/10cc for either shot.

 

[Leggo my Ego]

You can get compounded testosterone gel (or combination testosterone/DHEA gel) for much less than that. I've seen as inexpensive as $40-$45 per month. Make sure its a reputable compound pharmacy, cheaper isn't better if the raw material are poor quality. The gels absoutely work. I have several patients who have doubled their testosterone with them. Remember to look at the free(direct) levels as most important.You don't want to raise the testosterone outside a reasonable way anyway (easier to do with injectibles).
If he doesn't mind injections every 7-10 days, injectible testosterone Rxed by his doctor is relatively inexpensive. A $150 vial typically lasts 15-20 weeks. As other threads have mentioned, low dose HCG every 3 days is excellent to keep the natural HTPA axis working.

How would one find the less expensive compounded Test gel you speak of? I'm not certain of the brand/type of gel he was prescribed but he was complaining that it costs so much. How would one know whether the compound pharmacy is reputable? I imagine it would have to be prescribed.... right?

 

[cpeil2]

How would one find the less expensive compounded Test gel you speak of? I'm not certain of the brand/type of gel he was prescribed but he was complaining that it costs so much. How would one know whether the compound pharmacy is reputable? I imagine it would have to be prescribed.... right?

He needs to see a doc, be diagnosed, and prescribed the stuff. The doc usually has an established relationship with one or more compounding pharamacies that he/she likes.

 

[DoctorJohn]

Yes, everything I mention is prescription only. I find that the compounded creams are best because there is little day to day variability in blood levels. IM injections are fine but the longer you wait between doses, the more peaks and troughs.
Compounding creams are much easier than compounding liquids but either way, make sure the company is doing quality checks, following state board of pharmacy rules and fda regulations. If prices are too low, its reasonable to assume they are skimping on something.

Jans, I've also seen the compounded test at $50 per 10mls. The brand test is usually twice that.

 

[JanSz]

Yes, everything I mention is prescription only. I find that the compounded creams are best because there is little day to day variability in blood levels. IM injections are fine but the longer you wait between doses, the more peaks and troughs.
Compounding creams are much easier than compounding liquids but either way, make sure the company is doing quality checks, following state board of pharmacy rules and fda regulations. If prices are too low, its reasonable to assume they are skimping on something.

Jans, I've also seen the compounded test at $50 per 10mls. The brand test is usually twice that.

My personal experience;

Androgel, 1%, works for me at 10grams/day
Very expensive, requires all available skin, dries nice and quick.
Raises DHT astronomically, danger of transfer to female or infant/child.

Compounded T cream, 10%, produced about 1/3 effect at the dose equivalent to Androgel. Inexpensive relative to Androgel. Diminishing returns, since I would have to tripple the dose to get enough T. Long drying time. All other problems of transdermal delivery, transfer, DHT.

Injectable Testosterone. Best system for me. Requires frequent injections to work properly. I insist on using smallest available needle, 31ga. Hold the needle in for additional 30sec -1 min after shot is completed. Prevent any leakage (short needle).
Most inexpensive of all systems.

I recomend transdermal delivery only to those who have very low DHT.
===================================================================
Bottom line, if one have a limited choice, take any delivery of T you can put your hands on.
Drawbacks are insignificant relative to problems of low T.

 

[DoctorJohn]

I will keep an eye on DHT levels as therapy continues.
The quality of the compounded gel will likely depend on the company making it. Pts have had excellent blood level results to date, but the experience with the gel is only in the past year.

 

[hardasnails1973]

I will keep an eye on DHT levels as therapy continues.
The quality of the compounded gel will likely depend on the company making it. Pts have had excellent blood level results to date, but the experience with the gel is only in the past year.

For some apparent reason after a certain peroid of time they just stop working . I think it may have to do with possibility of thickeneing of the skin or some how the absorption may be alterred possible to the fact of adrenal or thyroid imbalances that may be surfacting later on for any given reason. With injections this over rides this from happening from the start. Personally if my cleint has signs of low thyroid via testing or clinical observations i would not waste any time and go right to injections to avouid this from every happening in the first place. MOst drs I know they get you set and then you get checked every 6 months or once a year and alot of variable of stress and other horomal changes can occur with in that time peroid. SO I would nip it in the but at the beginning. The idea of fear of needles can be remed by using 28 gauge pins and it works just as good by rotating it 2-3 times a week from shoulder to legs and the testosterone still gets in there no problemo..

 

[JanSz]

For some apparent reason after a certain peroid of time they just stop working . I think it may have to do with possibility of thickeneing of the skin or some how the absorption may be alterred possible to the fact of adrenal or thyroid imbalances that may be surfacting later on for any given reason. With injections this over rides this from happening from the start. Personally if my cleint has signs of low thyroid via testing or clinical observations i would not waste any time and go right to injections to avouid this from every happening in the first place. MOst drs I know they get you set and then you get checked every 6 months or once a year and alot of variable of stress and other horomal changes can occur with in that time peroid. SO I would nip it in the but at the beginning. The idea of fear of needles can be remed by using 28 gauge pins and it works just as good by rotating it 2-3 times a week from shoulder to legs and the testosterone still gets in there no problemo..

Good post, personally I would just change from 28 to 31.

 

[DoctorJohn]

Interesting observations. I will continue to monitor people on the gels and see if they have similar experiences.
Are you getting into the muscle with a 31 guage needle? Thats an insulin guage. How long is the needle? Test injections are best done IM.

 

[hardasnails1973]

Interesting observations. I will continue to monitor people on the gels and see if they have similar experiences.
Are you getting into the muscle with a 31 guage needle? Thats an insulin guage. How long is the needle? Test injections are best done IM.

I think 28 1/2 inch is good, you are not using a ton of test like in a steroid dosage I did a 31 gauge today and see if i still feel the same. Jansz have you got blood results back from the 31 gauge yet. I have my results from 28 gauge and at 55 mgs T every 3 days with insulin pin 28 guage hcg 120 ius day inbetween shots my total t was 1012 on seonc day after shot so this proves that insulin pins DO WORK !! Test is not my problem is stabilzing e2 and coreecting estrogen metabolism is my main focus. MOre drs should come to these boards as long as they have open minds they may see flaws in previoous ways of treating clients or stumble on to something new. ITs the drs will close minds anddo not thnk out side the box that are ones that are stuck in there ways. When it comes to thinkingabout side the box I go way out some times but when I present the information it just makes sense.

Dht can be off set with topical pregenlone cream provideing that under laying thyroid or adrneal issues are not present. One cleint i had was having issues on the gels dr would not switch him to the shots and refered him to a shrink. He got my name through word of mouth and after 6-8 weeks thryoid u came p to par throuigh dietary and lifestyle manipulation and his T levels trippled. GO FIGURE

 

[JanSz]

Interesting observations. I will continue to monitor people on the gels and see if they have similar experiences.
Are you getting into the muscle with a 31 guage needle? Thats an insulin guage. How long is the needle? Test injections are best done IM.

"Test injections are best done IM."
What makes you say that?
Way to measure effectivenes of testosterone delivery is by blood testing.

I have a proof that my subQ injections in to the fat around navel works.
See my post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html

I am using
31ga 5/16" long needle 3/10cc
This is the smallest needle that I know of.
I am using it for T and HCG shots.
I am doing my shots on E2D schedule, both.
T + Liquidex one day
250iu HCG next day

Among other things I am proud of my

FreeDHT levels

They were absolutely hopeles while I was on transdermals.
==============================================
While drawing blood for above test I was on E3D schedule
T + HCG 500iu + liquidex on same sitting in the morning.
Blood drawn on the day of the shot (7:30AM), time of the shot before shot.
No eating since night before, I had about 20oz of water 6AM.