ANY input on how to gain LBM ?

[milkmuscles]

Hey guys, I know the main thing for me here is diet and exercise, I understand that completely and I have a very clean diet. I'm roughly 185 lbs, 5'10 and was considering running a stack which consisted of DCP, DRIVE, BCAA's and a little beta alanine thrown in there(I' was also considering waxy maize starch too but then i saw $ signs all over the place) to try and shave a few lbs' while sustaining the muscle gains that I've made over time using the stack which I am on now, RPM and DRIVE, which I really like!!!

Now after thinking it over I've come to the conclusion that on that stack I actually might lose more weight that I had wanted, when all the while I'm really just looking to add solid muscle so I thought maybe LeanEXtreme, DRIVE, BCAA's and maybe waxy maize starch too would be a good stack to achieve this goal... then when researching I noticed that DRIVE and LeanExtreme both have either forslean or forskolin in them... and I thought maybe that would be over kill??

As you can see my mind is totally scattered here while trying to build a solid Lean Body Mass stack thats non hormonal for my next stack in a few weeks, and I would really like some help from anyone who thinks they can... i say non hormonal but i'm very open minded to other things

 

[nicholas]

So are you not gaining at all on this "clean" diet you are on now?

 

[earlyriser73]

Whats your lifting like?

 

[milkmuscles]

No I've gained muscle and strength and stayed relatively around the same weight, I've increased in almost every lift, now that I think about it, RPM and DRIVE have done me very good I feel, I guess I just want something that will produce faster results...


My lifting is 5 days a week, one muscle a day, I try to throw in as many compound exercises as i can and HIIT's like sprints or running with the powersled three times a week..

Is there anything more I can do? or less for that matter?

 

[earlyriser73]

Something I have found is people who want to put on more mass should be doing more heavy lower body work. My advice would be to see if you cant re-arrange your program to get in two lower body lifting days. Or maybe on back day you could do heavy deads.

 

[milkmuscles]

that's a good idea, i'll give that a shot. I actually don't do deads because thats the only lift that I never feel like I'm doing right, I realize it's pretty important but whenever i go and try and do I feel like im doing it wrong, so if I were to start I'd have to do almost zero weight because i'm sure i'm weak at it... would that matter? or is it better to do it with light weight at first than no weight at all?

 

[rms80]

Something I have found is people who want to put on more mass should be doing more heavy lower body work. My advice would be to see if you cant re-arrange your program to get in two lower body lifting days. Or maybe on back day you could do heavy deads.

Squats, deads, squats, and more squats.....all compound exercises, even for upper body:

Int J Sports Med. 2004 Nov;25(8):627-33.Click here to read Links
Relationship between diet and serum anabolic hormone responses to heavy-resistance exercise in men.
Sallinen J, Pakarinen A, Ahtiainen J, Kraemer WJ, Volek JS, Häkkinen K.

Neuromuscular Research Center & Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, Jyväskylä, Finland. [email protected]

Relationship between dietary intake and serum anabolic hormone concentrations of testosterone (T), free testosterone (FT), and growth hormone were examined at rest as well as after the heavy-resistance exercise (HRE) in 8 strength athletes (SA) and 10 physically active non-athletes (NA). In the first part of the study serum basal anabolic hormone concentrations and dietary intake were examined in the total group of subjects. In the second part of the study a subgroup of 5 SA and 5 NA performed the high volume and high intensity HRE. Dietary intake was registered by dietary diaries for 4 days preceding the loading day. Significant correlations were observed between serum basal T and fat (E%: r = 0.55, p < 0.05, g/kg: r = 0.65, p < 0.01) and protein intake (E%: r = - 0.77, p < 0.001, g/kg: r = - 0.68, p < 0.01) in the total group of subjects. However, when the two groups were examined separately the significant relationships between serum basal T and dietary fat and protein could be noticed in SA only (fat g/kg: SA r = 0.77, p < 0.05; in NA r = 0.44, n.s., protein g/kg: SA r = - 0.84, p < 0.05; in NA r = 0.27, n.s.). Both serum T and FT responses to HRE were correlated with fat (E%: r = 0.85, p < 0.01 and r = 0.73, p < 0.05, g/kg: r = 0.72, p < 0.05 and r = 0.77, p < 0.01) and protein (E%: r = - 0.81, p < 0.01 and r = - 0.69, p < 0.05, g/kg: r = - 0.86, p < 0.01 and r = - 0.65, p < 0.05). The results suggest the possible role of diet leading to alterations in serum T and FT during prolonged strength training, and that diets with insufficient fat and/or excessive protein may compromise the anabolic hormonal environment over a training program.

Eur J Appl Physiol. 2003 Aug;89(6):555-63. Epub 2003 May 7.Click here to read Links
Muscle hypertrophy, hormonal adaptations and strength development during strength training in strength-trained and untrained men.
Ahtiainen JP, Pakarinen A, Alen M, Kraemer WJ, Häkkinen K.

Neuromuscular Research Center and Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, P.O. Box 35, 40014 Jyväskylä, Finland. [email protected]

Hormonal and neuromuscular adaptations to strength training were studied in eight male strength athletes (SA) and eight non-strength athletes (NA). The experimental design comprised a 21-week strength-training period. Basal hormonal concentrations of serum total testosterone (T), free testosterone (FT) and cortisol (C) and maximal isometric strength, right leg 1 repetition maximum (RM) of the leg extensors were measured at weeks 0, 7, 14 and 21. Muscle cross-sectional area (CSA) of the quadriceps femoris was measured by magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) at weeks 0 and 21. In addition, the acute heavy resistance exercises (AHRE) (bilateral leg extension, five sets of ten RM, with a 2-min rest between sets) including blood samples for the determination of serum T, FT, C, and GH concentrations were assessed before and after the 21-week training. Significant increases of 20.9% in maximal force and of 5.6% in muscle CSA in NA during the 21-week strength training period were greater than those of 3.9% and -1.8% in SA, respectively. There were no significant changes in serum basal hormone concentrations during the 21-week experiment. AHRE led to significant acute decreases in isometric force and acute increases in serum hormones both at weeks 0 and 21. Basal T concentrations (mean of 0, 7, 14 and 21 weeks) and changes in isometric force after the 21-week period correlated with each other (r=0.84, P<0.01) in SA. The individual changes in the acute T responses between weeks 0 and 21 and the changes in muscle CSA during the 21-week training correlated with each other (r=0.76, P<0.05) in NA. The correlations between T and the changes in isometric strength and in muscle CSA suggest that both serum basal testosterone concentrations and training-induced changes in acute testosterone responses may be important factors for strength development and muscle hypertrophy.

 

[earlyriser73]

that's a good idea, i'll give that a shot. I actually don't do deads because thats the only lift that I never feel like I'm doing right, I realize it's pretty important but whenever i go and try and do I feel like im doing it wrong, so if I were to start I'd have to do almost zero weight because i'm sure i'm weak at it... would that matter? or is it better to do it with light weight at first than no weight at all?

You could start with rack pulls. Work up in weight for a couple of weeks whilst keeping perfect form, then keep lowering the rack little by little until you are comfortable pulling off the floor with good form.
Also if you feel like your doing it wrong its probably a flexibility issue or a lack of being able to keep your spine in a neutral position.

 

[Necroticism]

getting a lifting belt could also help. it helps alot actualy, i feel scared pulling 365 without one, but with it i can pull 405 easy. same thing goes with squats. a belt could save your life on a leg day.

 

[neoborn]

1. Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

2. Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr -Invalid Link Removed

3. Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

4. Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

5. Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

6. Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

7. Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc, Anti-Corts, Resveratrol.

Most importantly do you see the order of these things?

Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

3. Leg press

4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!

Do each step of this with your total focus (sleep is so important) and you will grow well bro!

 

[EasyEJL]

getting a lifting belt could also help. it helps alot actualy, i feel scared pulling 365 without one, but with it i can pull 405 easy. same thing goes with squats. a belt could save your life on a leg day.

The lifting belt does more harm than good at low weights. if you aren't already hitting deads + squats over bodyweight, its not worthwhile.

that's a good idea, i'll give that a shot. I actually don't do deads because thats the only lift that I never feel like I'm doing right, I realize it's pretty important but whenever i go and try and do I feel like im doing it wrong, so if I were to start I'd have to do almost zero weight because i'm sure i'm weak at it... would that matter? or is it better to do it with light weight at first than no weight at all?

That is the perfect plan. Watch videos of deadlifts online here is a great resource

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and then do em in the gym in front of a mirror with just bar for a few sets, see how it feels, and then slowly add weights. Its how I went from "squats to parallel" to ass to heels squats. I'm still a little uncomfortable with my deadlift form too, so I'm not doing those to failure yet.

Its always easier to get form and mechanics right with lower weight, and raise the weight later.


Also tho it sounds like you need to pick a goal and stick to it either you are looking to get leaner, or add muscle or loose scale weight or possibly other things, but trying to do everything at once does slow the process down. Go with 4 week goal sets, pick one specifically - leaner, stronger/bigger, lower scale weight, and tailor your diet to meet that. Leaner would be using the supps you mention with more cardio, and calories within 100-200 below maintenance. Lower scale weight would be less of the heavy exercises with more like a 500-700 below maintenance, and more cardio. Both of these as well would be best with higher rep count sets on strength workouts (10 -15 range, and not necessarily to failure). then bigger/stronger would be best at 100-200 cals over maintenance with some of the big exercises (squats, bench presses, maybe others) but not all done as low rep count to failure - 5-6 rep count range, do the rest in the 8-10 range

The main reason for 4 week goal sets is that you can rotate the goal every 4 weeks. so do 4 weeks of strength followed by 4 weeks of leaning etc.

 

[msucurt]

Something I have found is people who want to put on more mass should be doing more heavy lower body work. My advice would be to see if you cant re-arrange your program to get in two lower body lifting days. Or maybe on back day you could do heavy deads.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree with this. I used to do this standard 3 or 4 days split, but over the last 3 months i have gone to a fullbody routine. It looks like this..

MON, WED, FRI....repeat

chest - incline db press or bb incline press
back - bb row
tri - CG bench press
bi - incline db curl or straight bar curl
legs - FRONT SQUAT OR BACK SQUAT
sh - arnold press or front raises.

Basically, i am hitting my muscles 3x a week. Trying not to go to failure on my workouts. I have incorporated front squats over the last month or so instead of back squats, and my "teardrop" in my quads have begun to develop nicely.

I think by switching to fullbody and hitting each body part 3x a week has helped me tremendously. I have gained some nice LBM and lost over 20lbs. I dont think i will ever go back to a split...ever.

 

[rms80]

1. Workout hard - There are many different workout regimes, many that work well. Generally: Strength training is in the 6 rep range / Bodybuilding in the 8-10 rep range. - Rep range warmup: 15 ( sets 1 & 2 ) Working: 10, 8, 6 last three sets add drop sets to failure )

2. Fast Efficient Workouts = 1hr -Invalid Link Removed

3. Protein shake immediately after workout and then protein meal with carbs etc within 1hr

4. Creatine - Mono or CEE you decide. Both before and after workout.

5. Daily meals - 5 - 6 day ( including shakes ) protein = 1g per pound of body weight. Meal 1 ( breakies ) is shake plus oatmeal or whatever else you want ( apple is good fibre / system crap mover ), Meal 6 is post workout shake with creatine etc and then solid food meal. Carbs tapered down from morning to evening and fats tapered up from morning to evening. Protein is a constant.

6. Sleep 8 - 10 hrs a night ( very imp for all natural BB'ers )

7. Supps - Do you note the order in which these are and where supps come??? - a) Multivitamin / B complex b) Whey protein c) creatine e) Test boosters / stacks etc, Anti-Corts, Resveratrol.

Most importantly do you see the order of these things?

Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

3. Leg press

4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

This should give you a good idea....Best thing for test.....squats ....good form, warm up well, be careful and grow!

Do each step of this with your total focus (sleep is so important) and you will grow well bro!

Good post!!

 

[tbarrows]

WOW! I couldn't have asked for better responses, you guys have all been a great help, i'm definitely going to take each bit of information and put it to good use...

.. this really is the best website for information..

.. F-BB.COM! :rasp:


thanks again everyone!!!!!! Invalid Link Removed
:cheers:

 

[milkmuscles]

Thanks everyone so much for all your input, thats exactly why i posted my question here!

Exercises: Compound movements i.e. two arm two leg exercises.

1. Squats - Biggest muscle and boosts test like crazy, work em hard and see results big time.

2. Deadlifts / Chins / Bent over Rows / Pulldowns - 1st attempt either an palm up or palm down chin at the beginning of your back workout, if you can do one, try two, if you can do 15, add weight. Most important for back is to make the mind / muscle connection. Concentrate ( start with low weight and excellent form ) on getting a good contraction and not swinging with the weight. Calm controlled up down with good squeeze of lats at bottom of rep. All about the connection / squeeze

3. Leg press

4. Flat Bench Dumbell / Barbell - Always swap it up, it takes more muscle etc to do dumbells ( stabilizing muscles etc ) but switch it up - Start with dips to hit lower chest then move to flat bench / incline.

5. Core work - Abs / lower back - work the weaker harder.

Neo, were you suggesting that that would be a single day at the gym? Today for instance, I'm going in a few minutes and was going to do back and legs together since i missed back day on thurs. Are you suggesting I would throw in a little bench press in there too?

 

[neoborn]

I was not suggesting that this is one day in the gym, but this would all be relative to the type of program you are following.

I am not suggesting that no. For a split you would usually do a large muscle and a small muscle, also split into push / pull days.

I do DC style training. Back one day, Legs another, chest the other.

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks everyone so much for all your input, thats exactly why i posted my question here!





Neo, were you suggesting that that would be a single day at the gym? Today for instance, I'm going in a few minutes and was going to do back and legs together since i missed back day on thurs. Are you suggesting I would throw in a little bench press in there too?

Its worth while to start looking at the different "named" workout routines that has exercises and schedule predefined, and just pick one. It simplifies everything. Keep in mind you should be switching off which routine you use every 4-12 weeks (depends on you) to keep maximizing gains anyway, so you aren't married to the one you pick for life Some of the ones i've done are Body For Life, GVT, GBC, SAIS. You might want to look for Madcow 5x5

 

[milkmuscles]

Its worth while to start looking at the different "named" workout routines that has exercises and schedule predefined, and just pick one. It simplifies everything. Keep in mind you should be switching off which routine you use every 4-12 weeks (depends on you) to keep maximizing gains anyway, so you aren't married to the one you pick for life Some of the ones i've done are Body For Life, GVT, GBC, SAIS. You might want to look for Madcow 5x5

EJL, which of those has worked the best for you? I'm got like 5 different windows opened right now looking at the different programs, if anyone has any personal feedback on any of these I'd appreciate it. I am currently on a workout a friend gave to me, seems to be working pretty well but i'm coming up on week 6 of it and think i should be changing soon.

 

[EasyEJL]

Hard to say... body for life was good beginner, and general maintenance with no specific strengths or weaknesses. GVT is oriented around adding mass to your body for a bulking cycle. GBC is oriented around loosing fat while maintaning + growing some amount of muscle, and not doing cardio and SAIS is based around adding mass while adding strength. I'm liking SAIS a lot.