I can't stand it.
- Thread starter poison
- Start date
Force of Green
Well-known member
So? Order it, stick the pills in your mouth and hit the hay. 
Millennium 1
Well-known member
I had to. I just couldn't stop myself. I ordered ZMK. Maybe it was the wrong thing to do, but at least I'll sleep good at night.
Poison, we truly appreciate the order! I promise you won't be disappointed. Tremendous sleep and recovery for under $20.00 is always a good decision
poison
Board Sponsor
Last night I workoed out at 9:00pm. I sipped a whey isolate/carb ABB drink while working out, got home by 10:30. I ate some pasta, and had a protein shake by 11:30, and hit the sack.
If I was taking ZMK, would I take it immediately on leaving the gym, eat, and have my shake an hour later before bed?
If I was taking ZMK, would I take it immediately on leaving the gym, eat, and have my shake an hour later before bed?
Millennium 1
Well-known member
Let me start off by saying that I am not an big advocate of pre-bedtime meals whether they are strickly isolated to protein or are protein/carb/fat blends. In my opinion, contrary to recent popularity a meal, snack, protein shake, macronutrients etc. right before bed only encourages a hormonally incorrect environment.
I know that this goes against some of the recent thoughts on muscle gain but when conditions are right sleep on an empty stomach is anabolic because growth hormone can be secreted efficiently without being squandered or shut down by an insulin response or higher blood lipid count. Regardless of the pre bed meal insulin will have to be released in some capacity and insulin in any capacity will negate growth hormone.
I've used this principal in my diet and training and when training others over the past few years with far more success than than incorporating calories directly before retiring.
My advise is to consume your last meal or shake 1.5-2 hours before bed. This allows for the stomach to empty, the meal to metabolize and blood sugar levels to drop faster allowing a faster onset of quality growth hormone producing REM sleep. If growth hormone is present sleep is anabolic. If growth hormone isn't present then sleep is far more likely to be catabolic regardless of what you did or didn't consume before bed.
I personally take my pre bed shake (whey isolate/milk isolate/ egg/micellar casein) at 9:00pm. I then take my pre-bed sleep supplements like ZMK or Somnidren-GH at 11:00pm. My sleep and recovery are far greater than when I was taking my shake right before bed. I find that the supps kick in much faster and work much better and I find it to be much more anabolic.
I know this isn't the popular belief in the bodybuilding scene but it is the hormonally correct thing to do. Marketing of pre-bed protein blends has had it's way with our thinking and led us astray. They are still very effective if you time it right and don't take them too close to retiring.
Force of Green
Well-known member
I'm going to stick with this method from now on. I eat something if I'm hungry, close to bedtime, but it's pretty much 1.5 hours before I lay down.... Yeah, nighttime eating and drinking causes me interrupted sleep stage infractions. Unless ofcourse I take... lol... nothing can interrupt me then. Hell, not even an earthquake or a burglar!
EasyEJL
Never enough
could have a couple eggs as prebed... keep in mind for all of our silliness with trying to tweak the last little bit of everything out, that a pound of muscle only has around 150g of protein in it..... so unless you are gaining a pound a day, the extra 25-30g of protein you are getting in prebed meal shouldn't have huge effect on muscle growth anyhow. Overall availability of calories in the 24 hour period would have more effect.
Force of Green
Well-known member
What's going on with these hot women avatars like the ones taking big bites of bananas? Each time I link into the thread I want to whack it.
Force of Green
Well-known member
I honestly wouldn't skimp on the post-workout meal. I'm a bit confused now, maybe I should re-skim through the thread. One thing you could do... probably the only thing I'd do if I HAD to drop the PWO meal would be take drink about 40-50 grams of protein hydrosolates during the workout. It'll empty the stomach FAST and you'll be ready to take the ZMK pre-bed.
Millennium 1
Well-known member
Your scenerio makes it tough to be hormonally correct, but; it could play into your hands if you manage to keep your session short and sweet. I would recommend sipping your shake during your workout like you do. Then before you leave the gym take your post work out shake or a product that is primarily BCAA's. Even though leucine creates an insulin response if it's timed directly after your workout it's perfect because the BCAA's get into your system without having to be digested and cleaved. The insulin response is short lived and you've primed the anabolic response for sleep without depending on food that has to be digested.
The only draw back to these late workouts (I know because unfortunately I workout late too) is that it's hard to unwind mentally from the endorphine rush and get to sleep. ZMK will come in handy for that.
Millennium 1
Well-known member
Yeah, if you have a good EAA product it will work perfectly. Most EAA blend have ample BCAA content. If it's an EAA blend without the BCAAs then as long as they are in free form and not peptided you are fine.
drguitar78
New member
I wish I could get away with a night's sleep without waking up feeling like I would kill to feed. I usually wake up > 1o times per night: 3-4 bathroom breaks, 8-9 dying of thirst drinks of water, and 1-3 chugs of milk/prot(whey and casein)/EFA. Any advice..ps..I know this is very little info, but I am cramming for my cell bio midterm tomorrow and don't have time to write my entire stats..anyway, I thought this seemed to be on topic with the thread and would like to know what y'all think...I couldn't possibly think of sleeping through the night without feeding.
Millennium 1
Well-known member
I think feeding through the night might be part of the problem. Intermittent calories at a time when the body is supposed to be saturated with growth hormone can be detrimental to your sleep and recovery patterns not to mention anabolism. Waking to feed means higher insulin levels and less REM sleep which means less GH and anabolism. Night eating will stoke the metabolism making it harder to maintain lean mass and may even promote catabolism which is the opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.
I think if you tried to add the amount of protein you are consuming in the middle of the night to your dinner (or last meal 2 hours before bed) that the calories would be put to better use and after about a week you should start to reset that hunger and stop waking up like a ravenous werewolf on a full moon. This would make your sleep more hormonally correct allowing you to recover and grow more efficiently.
I used to eat through the night and soon realized that it was the thing that was holding my gains back. This might hold true for you too. You might need to invest in a sleep aid for the first week or two to keep you knocked out so your stomach doesn't come calling.
Millennium 1
Well-known member
Matt, you rock! thanks. Tonights my first night with it.
No Man! YOU ROCK! Let me know how it goes!
Have a great night!
milwood
Registered User
Seriously! The avatars are off the hook! Now it's all the finest looking young ladies, the banana swallowers (is that what the banana cult is really all about???), or the cartoon characters. For awhile back then it was all horror characters like from Fangoria or something, like Bobo's evil clown. I think I'm gonna put like a picture of a plant or a tree or something in mine...
Oh, and good info Millennium! Nice to have you on the board!
Millennium 1
Well-known member
I think in your situation you should keep your carbs to an absolute minimum since you are hitting the sack so quickly after training. If you could give yourself a good hour between post workout BCAA/EAA/carbs and bed that would be ideal. If you had an hour or more then you could add a little more carb and protein.
It's tough because of your schedule.
drguitar78
New member
hmmm...sounds logical...I will give it a shot. Thanks for the advice millenium! Do you recommend any particular sleep aid...I hate the pills that make you groggy in the morning (Tyl PM, or anything you get from the doc)..do you think this ZMK will be strong enough in my case, or will that be best-suited for when I get my hunger under control?
Millennium 1
Well-known member
ZMK works wonders. It will help curb some of that hunger since it's giving you nutrients and most of us are really mineral deficient. It will also help keep you asleep much better than any of the OTC stuff without making you feel wasted in the morning.
Force of Green
Well-known member
Yeah man, lol, especially the banana swallowers.
poison
Board Sponsor
Oh, hell yeah! I'm on my 6th night or so of ZMK. I've changed my eating habits, no more food within 2 hours of sleep/ZMK ingestion, and I'm sleeping so deep. I normally only get 6 hours per night, due to work (I could sleep far more if I had time). I feel better on the same amount. Last night I crashed about 2 hours earlier than usual, and I feel AWESOME today. Normally an extra two hours is not sufficient to do much.
I likee!
I likee!
Millennium 1
Well-known member
Great feedback Poison! I think you will see some great results from these samll alterations.
poison
Board Sponsor
I've come upon a strange problem: the pills surface is dry and powdery. It takes me a 12oz glass of water to get them down. This is resulting in me waking up an hour or two before I should, to piss. Then it's tough to go back down.
I can swallow 3 Orange Triads, 3 fish oil, a green tea, and a couple vitamin C in one gulp with 2-3 OZ of water, so it's not that I'm a baby. It's just something about that powdery surface which inevitably leaves the pill stuck in my throat, taking a couple gulps to get each one down.
I can swallow 3 Orange Triads, 3 fish oil, a green tea, and a couple vitamin C in one gulp with 2-3 OZ of water, so it's not that I'm a baby. It's just something about that powdery surface which inevitably leaves the pill stuck in my throat, taking a couple gulps to get each one down.
EasyEJL
Never enough
Good news! they are chewable. if you noticed they are soft-pressed particularly for that reason
Millennium 1
Well-known member
Although great care was taken in the manufacturing process they do still have a little residue on the tabs. Unfortunately the tabs couldn't be coated because one of the krebs intermediates was turning the tabs yellow upon coating. Therefore we opted to make them softer so they could be chewed. They are pretty chalky but it's a good option.
We are still toying around with the idea of 4-OOO capsules on the next run.
P.S. you should be ashamed for still swallowing triad!
j/k