xjsynx
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You get my PM :whip:
While the boss is away............Thread
- Thread starter xjsynx
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You get my PM :whip:
xjsynx
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I LOVE WAL-MARTz
xjsynx
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Who said anything about the band? It was in regards to an individual using machines.....
xjsynx
Member
You are not an athlete, so drop it....
thewilman
Well-known member
Grassyarse :bruce1:
thewilman
Well-known member
:nutkick:
xjsynx
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Dr Packenwood
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Nah. I just did that. All it did was leave mushroom prints on my monitor.
xjsynx
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:rofl:
thewilman
Well-known member
I just saw the launch video...pretty cool.
xjsynx
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By Jose Antonio, Ph.D.
One of my close friends is a professor at a fairly high profile Midwestern university (he’ll remain anonymous so as to avoid the wrath of his fellow protein-hating colleagues) and we were talking recently about how grossly misinformed many in academia are regarding dietary protein intake.
This is what you’ll often hear in the ivory towers.
* “High protein diets are bad for your kidneys.”
* “Protein dehydrates you.”
* “Athletes get plenty of protein in their normal diets.”
* “Protein is evil.”
Okay, maybe the last one is an exaggeration; albeit a slight one.
For whatever odd reason, some of the most educated individuals are also some of the most misinformed when it comes to dietary protein. First, let me set the record straight.
* There is no evidence that high protein diets (which I’ll operationally define as 2-3 times greater than the ridiculously low RDA) is harmful to otherwise healthy individuals.(1)
* There is evidence that in individuals with renal dysfunction may need to consume protein that even exceeds the RDA.(2)
* The addition of protein to a sports drink does not dehydrate you and may in fact improve performance and recovery.(3)
* Athletes do need more protein than couch potatoes.
* Protein is not evil. (Sorry, no references).
What the heck is protein anyway?
Just as glucose serves as the building block of glycogen, so are amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins. Proteins are arguably the most important component of your cells.
They’re involved in formation of contractile tissue or muscle, they make up a large part of the structural component of cells, they are a part of enzymes, antibodies, blood, etc. You name it, protein is part of it.
The main function of protein is to provide the needed amino acids for maintaining an anabolic (growth) or weight-stable state. However, recent data shows that additional protein promotes recovery and performance during exercise. (3, 4)
How much protein should you consume?
The easiest way to remember how much protein to consume is via the formula – 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. Hence, a 200 pound individual needs about 200 grams of protein. And don’t be misled by the "carb-Nazis" who pontificate on the impending doom of your kidneys if you consume this much protein. If that were the case, gyms would be littered with strength-power athletes with failing kidneys.
In fact, according to Darryn Willoughby, Ph.D., of the International Society of Sports Nutrition and member of AXL’s Advisory Board, “the hazards of eating a high protein diet are as overblown as a big Texas hairdo. Now if you have damaged kidneys then the work that your kidneys need to perform to eliminate excess nitrogen would make it wise to avoid excess protein. Otherwise, enjoy that Porterhouse.”
Suffice it to say that the RDA of 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight per day is grossly inadequate for anyone whose activity levels exceed that of a La-Z-Boy recliner. Even though muscle protein degradation or breakdown increases during exercise, there is a significant increase in muscle protein synthesis for at least 24 hours after either resistance or endurance exercise. If you are not getting adequate protein during this time, then it would make sense that you probably will not gain lean body mass.
How much protein can I consume at one sitting?
Great question! Unfortunately, the scientific answer isn’t known. But I’ll give you the Midwestern common sense answer. Would your 75 year old grandma and the 250 lb, 25 year old martial arts fighter have the same limitations when it comes to digesting and absorbing protein? Obviously, the fighter needs more protein to assist with recovery and repair of muscles.
In all fairness, there are studies in which levels of 30 grams of protein are fed to subjects; and this amount produces a tremendous rise in blood amino acid levels. I’d imagine that 30 grams of protein per meal is a good starting point. If you eat 30 grams a sitting and you eat 6 times daily, that’s about 180 grams of protein.
For most “normal-weight” individuals, that should suffice. But imagine if you’re a 300 lb football player or bodybuilder? You’d either have to eat more protein per sitting or just eat more meals. The answer to this problem? Consume meal replacement powders as a protein supplement.
Protein and those with real kidney problems – the other viewpoint
A recent paper discussed two of the National Kidney Foundation Kidney Disease Outcomes Quality Initiative (K/DOQI) clinical practice guidelines for nutrition in chronic renal failure.
These guidelines recommended a dietary protein intake of 1.2 g protein/kg body weight/day for clinically stable maintenance hemodialysis (MHD) patients (Guideline 15) and 1.2 to 1.3 g protein/kg/day for clinically stable chronic peritoneal dialysis (CPD) patients (Guideline 16).
If you do the math, that is roughly 50% to 63% greater than the regular RDA or recommended daily allowance. But I thought eating protein was evil, evil, evil? Maybe not.
Scientists suggest that the possible mechanisms that require these increased protein needs include (a) the substantial quantity of amino acids, peptides, and proteins removed by the dialysis procedure and (b) the protein catabolic or anti-anabolic state caused by the uremic milieu, the inflammatory state, the oxidative and carbonyl stress, and the bio-incompatible dialysis materials to which MHD and CPD patients are exposed. In English, that means these individuals tend to be very catabolic and need to somehow replace the lost amino acids or protein. (2)
Protein types – the slow and the fast!
Cool work from France delineated the concepts of “slow” and “fast” proteins. In fact, this may play a greater role in muscle protein metabolism than the older concepts of biological value.
In essence, there are two proteins that many of us consume, which are digested at different rates (hence, slow and fast). In comparing whey to casein protein, whey is a faster protein, meaning it’s absorbed quickly into the bloodstream and remains elevated for about 3 to 4 hours. On the other hand, casein tends to clot in your stomach and in essence is “timed-released” such that you have significant elevation of blood or plasma amino acids for up to 7 hours.
Why are these distinctions important? First of all, whey is a very anabolic protein. However, inasmuch as you get a quick rise in plasma aminos, you also get quite a bit of oxidation of the protein (i.e. it is used for fuel). Casein however does not promote as much anabolism but is very anti-catabolic (i.e. inhibits protein breakdown). The “net” effect is that if you do a head to head comparison, casein beats whey over the long haul. Does that mean you should dump that bucket of whey into the trash bin? Hell no.
In fact, take advantage of whey’s easy and quick digestion/absorption qualities and consume it as part of your post-workout meal. Casein may be best if consumed as a single meal prior to bed (to sustain plasma aminos throughout the day).(5-9)
Protein and bone health
According to one study, protein intakes do not contribute to the wide variability in calcium absorption efficiency. (10) Or put another way, eating protein probably has no effect on bone mineral content.
Another investigation stated verbatim that “several recent epidemiological studies demonstrate reduced bone density and increased rates of bone loss in individuals habitually consuming low protein diets.” (10-12) So, one might argue that low protein intakes is the culprit. Either way, it would be wise to consume both adequate protein and calcium to maintain lean body mass and reduce body fat.
Adding protein to sports drinks
In a recent study that compared a traditional sports drink (water, carbs, and electrolytes) versus a sports drink that contained added protein, they found that cyclists rode 29% to 40% longer when they consumed the sports drink with protein than the one without.
Also, peak post-exercise plasma CPK (creatine phosphokinase) levels, an indirect measure of muscle damage, was 83% lower after consuming the sports drink plus protein. So don’t believe the baloney about protein dehydrating you (‘cause if it did, these cyclists would not have performed better) or being unimportant during exercise. Even a small amount (~3-6 grams) during exercise might do wonders for you!(3)
The Moral of the Story
* Consume 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily.
* Spread it out over 6 meals.
* Protein intake 2-3 times over the RDA is not harmful to your kidneys, bones, or anything else for that matter.
* Adding a touch of protein to a sports drink may improve performance and speed up recovery.
* Consume “fast” proteins after you exercise and “slow” proteins at the end of the day.
* Listen to the Performance Nutrition Show at Invalid Link Removed ; download the podcast and keep updated on the newest findings in sports nutrition!
References
* Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O. Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes? Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000;10:28-38.
* Kopple JD. The National Kidney Foundation K/DOQI clinical practice guidelines for dietary protein intake for chronic dialysis patients. Am J Kidney Dis 2001;38:S68-73.
* Saunders MJ, Kane MD, Todd MK. Effects of a carbohydrate-protein beverage on cycling endurance and muscle damage. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2004;36:1233-8.
* Flakoll PJ, Judy T, Flinn K, Carr C, Flinn S. Postexercise protein supplementation improves health and muscle soreness during basic military training in marine recruits. J Appl Physiol 2004;96:951-6.
* Dangin M, Boirie Y, Garcia-Rodenas C, et al. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001;280:E340-8.
* Beaufrere B, Dangin M, Boirie Y. The 'fast' and 'slow' protein concept. Nestle Nutr Workshop Ser Clin Perform Programme 2000;3:121-31; discussion 131-3.
* Boirie Y, Beaufrere B, Ritz P. Energetic cost of protein turnover in healthy elderly humans. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 2001;25:601-5.
* Boirie Y, Broyer M, Gagnadoux MF, Niaudet P, Bresson JL. Alterations of protein metabolism by metabolic acidosis in children with chronic renal failure. Kidney Int 2000;58:236-41.
* Boirie Y, Dangin M, Gachon P, Vasson MP, Maubois JL, Beaufrere B. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1997;94:14930-5.
* Heaney RP. Dietary protein and phosphorus do not affect calcium absorption. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;72:758-61.
* Kerstetter JE, O'Brien KO, Insogna KL. Low protein intake: the impact on calcium and bone homeostasis in humans. J Nutr 2003;133:855S-861S.
* Kerstetter JE, O'Brien KO, Insogna KL. Dietary protein, calcium metabolism, and skeletal homeostasis revisited. Am J Clin Nutr 2003;78:584S-592S.
One of my close friends is a professor at a fairly high profile Midwestern university (he’ll remain anonymous so as to avoid the wrath of his fellow protein-hating colleagues) and we were talking recently about how grossly misinformed many in academia are regarding dietary protein intake.
This is what you’ll often hear in the ivory towers.
* “High protein diets are bad for your kidneys.”
* “Protein dehydrates you.”
* “Athletes get plenty of protein in their normal diets.”
* “Protein is evil.”
Okay, maybe the last one is an exaggeration; albeit a slight one.
For whatever odd reason, some of the most educated individuals are also some of the most misinformed when it comes to dietary protein. First, let me set the record straight.
* There is no evidence that high protein diets (which I’ll operationally define as 2-3 times greater than the ridiculously low RDA) is harmful to otherwise healthy individuals.(1)
* There is evidence that in individuals with renal dysfunction may need to consume protein that even exceeds the RDA.(2)
* The addition of protein to a sports drink does not dehydrate you and may in fact improve performance and recovery.(3)
* Athletes do need more protein than couch potatoes.
* Protein is not evil. (Sorry, no references).
What the heck is protein anyway?
Just as glucose serves as the building block of glycogen, so are amino acids, which are the building blocks of proteins. Proteins are arguably the most important component of your cells.
They’re involved in formation of contractile tissue or muscle, they make up a large part of the structural component of cells, they are a part of enzymes, antibodies, blood, etc. You name it, protein is part of it.
The main function of protein is to provide the needed amino acids for maintaining an anabolic (growth) or weight-stable state. However, recent data shows that additional protein promotes recovery and performance during exercise. (3, 4)
How much protein should you consume?
The easiest way to remember how much protein to consume is via the formula – 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. Hence, a 200 pound individual needs about 200 grams of protein. And don’t be misled by the "carb-Nazis" who pontificate on the impending doom of your kidneys if you consume this much protein. If that were the case, gyms would be littered with strength-power athletes with failing kidneys.
In fact, according to Darryn Willoughby, Ph.D., of the International Society of Sports Nutrition and member of AXL’s Advisory Board, “the hazards of eating a high protein diet are as overblown as a big Texas hairdo. Now if you have damaged kidneys then the work that your kidneys need to perform to eliminate excess nitrogen would make it wise to avoid excess protein. Otherwise, enjoy that Porterhouse.”
Suffice it to say that the RDA of 0.8 grams per kilogram body weight per day is grossly inadequate for anyone whose activity levels exceed that of a La-Z-Boy recliner. Even though muscle protein degradation or breakdown increases during exercise, there is a significant increase in muscle protein synthesis for at least 24 hours after either resistance or endurance exercise. If you are not getting adequate protein during this time, then it would make sense that you probably will not gain lean body mass.
How much protein can I consume at one sitting?
Great question! Unfortunately, the scientific answer isn’t known. But I’ll give you the Midwestern common sense answer. Would your 75 year old grandma and the 250 lb, 25 year old martial arts fighter have the same limitations when it comes to digesting and absorbing protein? Obviously, the fighter needs more protein to assist with recovery and repair of muscles.
In all fairness, there are studies in which levels of 30 grams of protein are fed to subjects; and this amount produces a tremendous rise in blood amino acid levels. I’d imagine that 30 grams of protein per meal is a good starting point. If you eat 30 grams a sitting and you eat 6 times daily, that’s about 180 grams of protein.
For most “normal-weight” individuals, that should suffice. But imagine if you’re a 300 lb football player or bodybuilder? You’d either have to eat more protein per sitting or just eat more meals. The answer to this problem? Consume meal replacement powders as a protein supplement.
Protein and those with real kidney problems – the other viewpoint
A recent paper discussed two of the National Kidney Foundation Kidney Disease Outcomes Quality Initiative (K/DOQI) clinical practice guidelines for nutrition in chronic renal failure.
These guidelines recommended a dietary protein intake of 1.2 g protein/kg body weight/day for clinically stable maintenance hemodialysis (MHD) patients (Guideline 15) and 1.2 to 1.3 g protein/kg/day for clinically stable chronic peritoneal dialysis (CPD) patients (Guideline 16).
If you do the math, that is roughly 50% to 63% greater than the regular RDA or recommended daily allowance. But I thought eating protein was evil, evil, evil? Maybe not.
Scientists suggest that the possible mechanisms that require these increased protein needs include (a) the substantial quantity of amino acids, peptides, and proteins removed by the dialysis procedure and (b) the protein catabolic or anti-anabolic state caused by the uremic milieu, the inflammatory state, the oxidative and carbonyl stress, and the bio-incompatible dialysis materials to which MHD and CPD patients are exposed. In English, that means these individuals tend to be very catabolic and need to somehow replace the lost amino acids or protein. (2)
Protein types – the slow and the fast!
Cool work from France delineated the concepts of “slow” and “fast” proteins. In fact, this may play a greater role in muscle protein metabolism than the older concepts of biological value.
In essence, there are two proteins that many of us consume, which are digested at different rates (hence, slow and fast). In comparing whey to casein protein, whey is a faster protein, meaning it’s absorbed quickly into the bloodstream and remains elevated for about 3 to 4 hours. On the other hand, casein tends to clot in your stomach and in essence is “timed-released” such that you have significant elevation of blood or plasma amino acids for up to 7 hours.
Why are these distinctions important? First of all, whey is a very anabolic protein. However, inasmuch as you get a quick rise in plasma aminos, you also get quite a bit of oxidation of the protein (i.e. it is used for fuel). Casein however does not promote as much anabolism but is very anti-catabolic (i.e. inhibits protein breakdown). The “net” effect is that if you do a head to head comparison, casein beats whey over the long haul. Does that mean you should dump that bucket of whey into the trash bin? Hell no.
In fact, take advantage of whey’s easy and quick digestion/absorption qualities and consume it as part of your post-workout meal. Casein may be best if consumed as a single meal prior to bed (to sustain plasma aminos throughout the day).(5-9)
Protein and bone health
According to one study, protein intakes do not contribute to the wide variability in calcium absorption efficiency. (10) Or put another way, eating protein probably has no effect on bone mineral content.
Another investigation stated verbatim that “several recent epidemiological studies demonstrate reduced bone density and increased rates of bone loss in individuals habitually consuming low protein diets.” (10-12) So, one might argue that low protein intakes is the culprit. Either way, it would be wise to consume both adequate protein and calcium to maintain lean body mass and reduce body fat.
Adding protein to sports drinks
In a recent study that compared a traditional sports drink (water, carbs, and electrolytes) versus a sports drink that contained added protein, they found that cyclists rode 29% to 40% longer when they consumed the sports drink with protein than the one without.
Also, peak post-exercise plasma CPK (creatine phosphokinase) levels, an indirect measure of muscle damage, was 83% lower after consuming the sports drink plus protein. So don’t believe the baloney about protein dehydrating you (‘cause if it did, these cyclists would not have performed better) or being unimportant during exercise. Even a small amount (~3-6 grams) during exercise might do wonders for you!(3)
The Moral of the Story
* Consume 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight daily.
* Spread it out over 6 meals.
* Protein intake 2-3 times over the RDA is not harmful to your kidneys, bones, or anything else for that matter.
* Adding a touch of protein to a sports drink may improve performance and speed up recovery.
* Consume “fast” proteins after you exercise and “slow” proteins at the end of the day.
* Listen to the Performance Nutrition Show at Invalid Link Removed ; download the podcast and keep updated on the newest findings in sports nutrition!
References
* Poortmans JR, Dellalieux O. Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes? Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000;10:28-38.
* Kopple JD. The National Kidney Foundation K/DOQI clinical practice guidelines for dietary protein intake for chronic dialysis patients. Am J Kidney Dis 2001;38:S68-73.
* Saunders MJ, Kane MD, Todd MK. Effects of a carbohydrate-protein beverage on cycling endurance and muscle damage. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2004;36:1233-8.
* Flakoll PJ, Judy T, Flinn K, Carr C, Flinn S. Postexercise protein supplementation improves health and muscle soreness during basic military training in marine recruits. J Appl Physiol 2004;96:951-6.
* Dangin M, Boirie Y, Garcia-Rodenas C, et al. The digestion rate of protein is an independent regulating factor of postprandial protein retention. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 2001;280:E340-8.
* Beaufrere B, Dangin M, Boirie Y. The 'fast' and 'slow' protein concept. Nestle Nutr Workshop Ser Clin Perform Programme 2000;3:121-31; discussion 131-3.
* Boirie Y, Beaufrere B, Ritz P. Energetic cost of protein turnover in healthy elderly humans. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord 2001;25:601-5.
* Boirie Y, Broyer M, Gagnadoux MF, Niaudet P, Bresson JL. Alterations of protein metabolism by metabolic acidosis in children with chronic renal failure. Kidney Int 2000;58:236-41.
* Boirie Y, Dangin M, Gachon P, Vasson MP, Maubois JL, Beaufrere B. Slow and fast dietary proteins differently modulate postprandial protein accretion. Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1997;94:14930-5.
* Heaney RP. Dietary protein and phosphorus do not affect calcium absorption. Am J Clin Nutr 2000;72:758-61.
* Kerstetter JE, O'Brien KO, Insogna KL. Low protein intake: the impact on calcium and bone homeostasis in humans. J Nutr 2003;133:855S-861S.
* Kerstetter JE, O'Brien KO, Insogna KL. Dietary protein, calcium metabolism, and skeletal homeostasis revisited. Am J Clin Nutr 2003;78:584S-592S.
xjsynx
Member
I was going to say you are geeky like that :rofl:
whatastud08
Active member
SBD Pizza FTW~!
xjsynx
Member
By Jose Antonio, Ph.D.
One of the most effective strategies at gaining lean body mass and improving performance and recovery is via nutrient timing. That is, one should make sure that you consume nutrients (protein and carbohydrate) pre- and post-workout.
A recent study looked at the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-week weight training program.
In a single-blind (meaning the investigators knew what they were giving the subjects but the subjects didn’t know what they were getting), randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups.
* The PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 gram of the supplement per kilogram of body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after weight training.
* The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. For a 176 pound person, this translates into 32 g protein, 34.4 g cho, less than 0.4 g fat, and 5.6 g of creatine monohydrate.
Guess what happened? The group that took the supplement PRE-POST had better adaptations. The PRE-POST demonstrated a significantly greater increase in lean body mass and 1-repetition maximum strength in the squat and bench press.
The PRE-POST group also had a greater increase in the size of their type II fibers (a.k.a. fast twitch) and contractile protein content. And last but not least, PRE-POST supplementation also resulted in higher muscle creatine and glycogen levels after the training program.1
Protein Supplements and Resistance Training
Another fairly recent investigation examined the long-term hypertrophic effect of protein supplementation in combination with resistance training. The study involved 14 weeks of resistance training combined with timed ingestion of isoenergetic (i.e. same calories) protein (25 grams) versus carbohydrate (25 grams) supplementation on muscle fiber hypertrophy and mechanical muscle performance. The subjects in this study were “physically active.”1
Subjects were instructed not to ingest anything else aside from plain water two hours before and two hours after the training session. On training days, the subjects consumed 25 grams of the protein or carbohydrate supplement immediately before training and immediately after the last set of the training session. On non-training days, subjects consumed one sachet (of the protein or carbohydrate supplement) mixed with water in the morning. Each sachet of protein powder contained 16.6 g of whey protein, 2.8 g of casein, 2.8 g of egg white protein, and 2.8 g of l-glutamine. Each sachet of carbohydrate powder contained 25 g of maltodextrin.
Muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis muscle and analyzed for muscle fiber cross-sectional area. Squat jump, countermovement jump, and peak torque during slow (30 degrees s-1) and fast (240 degrees s-1) concentric and eccentric contractions were determined.
After 14 weeks of resistance training, the protein group experienced an 18% and 26% increase in type I and type II muscle fiber cross-sectional area; however, [highlight]no change above baseline occurred in the carbohydrate group.[/highlight] Squat jump height increased only in the protein group, whereas countermovement jump height and peak torque during slow isokinetic muscle contraction increased similarly in both groups.6
Thus, the most important and critical finding in this study is that physically active individuals benefit (i.e. greater muscle fiber size and enhanced squat jump performance) from timed protein supplementation in conjunction with heavy resistance training whereas carbohydrate supplementation had no effect.
Looking at diets
It is unclear why the carbohydrate-consuming group did not experience significant muscle fiber hypertrophy from the training alone. Dietary analysis showed that the two groups had the same levels of energy and protein intake before the training intervention. However, the investigators did not measure food intake during the treatment period.
It is quite possible that energy and macronutrient intake differed between groups during the intervention; however, it would seem implausible that only one group would make systematic changes in their overall diet while the other remained unchanged.
The protein supplemented group experienced a significant increase in squat jump height while countermovement jump height and peak torque during slow isokinetic muscle contraction increased similarly in both groups. It isn’t clear mechanistically why this discrepancy was found.
Nonetheless, neural adaptation (i.e. rate coding, motor unit recruitment) would explain the performance changes in the carbohydrate supplemented group. Perhaps a slight advantage in the protein supplemented group was manifest in one of the performance measures due to the fact that muscle fiber size increased only that group.
Nonetheless, it is apparent from this investigation as well as others, that consuming protein or a combination of protein plus carbohydrate is important for enhancing the adaptive response to exercise.6-14
Based on this recent investigation, it is apparent that you can consume protein/amino acids pre- and post-exercise (without carbohydrate) and get significant benefits in terms of muscle fiber size and performance. From a practical standpoint, it would make sense that athletes should be advised to consume a meal before and after training. For the sake of convenience, this meal may be best consumed as a ready-to-drink beverage.
Strength-power athletes would likely need to place greater emphasis on protein (and less so on carbohydrate) because of the dietary needs vis-à-vis skeletal muscle growth whereas endurance athletes may need proportionately more carbohydrate with protein to promote skeletal muscle glycogen repletion. Sports nutritionists must of course work with each individual to determine what works best for their particular athlete.
Practical Application Summary
It is best to consume a combination of protein and carbohydrate immediately post-exercise (as well as pre-exercise if your stomach can handle it) for promoting optimal gains in lean body mass. There isn’t a magic ratio per se in carbohydrate to protein. What is clear however is that if you don’t take advantage of this “nutrient timing” window, the benefits you incur will be less.
A minimum of 100 total calories post-workout has been shown to have significant positive benefits. If you are in the “physique” sports such as bodybuilding or fitness/figure competitions, a ratio favoring more protein than carbohydrate is likely better.
References
1. Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE. Independent and combined effects of liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion on hormonal and muscular adaptations following resistance training in untrained men. Eur J Appl Physiol. Mar 24 2006.
2. Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE. Effects of liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion on acute hormonal response during a single bout of resistance exercise in untrained men. Nutrition. Apr 2006;22(4):367-375.
3. Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE. Liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion during a short-term bout of resistance exercise suppresses myofibrillar protein degradation. Metabolism. May 2006;55(5):570-577.
4. Flakoll PJ, Judy T, Flinn K, Carr C, Flinn S. Postexercise protein supplementation improves health and muscle soreness during basic military training in marine recruits. J Appl Physiol. Mar 2004;96(3):951-956.
5. Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, et al. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. Aug 2001;281(2):E197-206.
6. Andersen LL, Tufekovic G, Zebis MK, et al. The effect of resistance training combined with timed ingestion of protein on muscle fiber size and muscle strength. Metabolism. Feb 2005;54(2):151-156.
7. Tipton KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM, Doyle D, Jr., Wolfe RR. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am J Physiol. Apr 1999;276(4 Pt 1):E628-634.
8. Rasmussen BB, Tipton KD, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. Feb 2000;88(2):386-392.
9. van Loon LJ, Kruijshoop M, Verhagen H, Saris WH, Wagenmakers AJ. Ingestion of protein hydrolysate and amino acid-carbohydrate mixtures increases postexercise plasma insulin responses in men. J Nutr. Oct 2000;130(10):2508-2513.
10. Esmarck B, Andersen JL, Olsen S, Richter EA, Mizuno M, Kjaer M. Timing of postexercise protein intake is important for muscle hypertrophy with resistance training in elderly humans. J Physiol. Aug 15 2001;535(Pt 1):301-311.
11. Ivy JL, Goforth HW, Jr., Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB. Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. Oct 2002;93(4):1337-1344.
12. Williams MB, Raven PB, Fogt DL, Ivy JL. Effects of recovery beverages on glycogen restoration and endurance exercise performance. J Strength Cond Res. Feb 2003;17(1):12-19.
13. Saunders MJ, Kane MD, Todd MK. Effects of a carbohydrate-protein beverage on cycling endurance and muscle damage. Med Sci Sports Exerc. Jul 2004;36(7):1233-1238.
14. Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. Jan 2004;22(1):65-79.[/COLOR]
One of the most effective strategies at gaining lean body mass and improving performance and recovery is via nutrient timing. That is, one should make sure that you consume nutrients (protein and carbohydrate) pre- and post-workout.
A recent study looked at the effects of supplement timing compared with supplementation in the hours not close to the workout on muscle-fiber hypertrophy, strength, and body composition during a 10-week weight training program.
In a single-blind (meaning the investigators knew what they were giving the subjects but the subjects didn’t know what they were getting), randomized protocol, resistance-trained males were matched for strength and placed into one of two groups.
* The PRE-POST group consumed a supplement (1 gram of the supplement per kilogram of body weight) containing protein/creatine/glucose immediately before and after weight training.
* The MOR-EVE group consumed the same dose of the same supplement in the morning and late evening. For a 176 pound person, this translates into 32 g protein, 34.4 g cho, less than 0.4 g fat, and 5.6 g of creatine monohydrate.
Guess what happened? The group that took the supplement PRE-POST had better adaptations. The PRE-POST demonstrated a significantly greater increase in lean body mass and 1-repetition maximum strength in the squat and bench press.
The PRE-POST group also had a greater increase in the size of their type II fibers (a.k.a. fast twitch) and contractile protein content. And last but not least, PRE-POST supplementation also resulted in higher muscle creatine and glycogen levels after the training program.1
Protein Supplements and Resistance Training
Another fairly recent investigation examined the long-term hypertrophic effect of protein supplementation in combination with resistance training. The study involved 14 weeks of resistance training combined with timed ingestion of isoenergetic (i.e. same calories) protein (25 grams) versus carbohydrate (25 grams) supplementation on muscle fiber hypertrophy and mechanical muscle performance. The subjects in this study were “physically active.”1
Subjects were instructed not to ingest anything else aside from plain water two hours before and two hours after the training session. On training days, the subjects consumed 25 grams of the protein or carbohydrate supplement immediately before training and immediately after the last set of the training session. On non-training days, subjects consumed one sachet (of the protein or carbohydrate supplement) mixed with water in the morning. Each sachet of protein powder contained 16.6 g of whey protein, 2.8 g of casein, 2.8 g of egg white protein, and 2.8 g of l-glutamine. Each sachet of carbohydrate powder contained 25 g of maltodextrin.
Muscle biopsies were taken from the vastus lateralis muscle and analyzed for muscle fiber cross-sectional area. Squat jump, countermovement jump, and peak torque during slow (30 degrees s-1) and fast (240 degrees s-1) concentric and eccentric contractions were determined.
After 14 weeks of resistance training, the protein group experienced an 18% and 26% increase in type I and type II muscle fiber cross-sectional area; however, [highlight]no change above baseline occurred in the carbohydrate group.[/highlight] Squat jump height increased only in the protein group, whereas countermovement jump height and peak torque during slow isokinetic muscle contraction increased similarly in both groups.6
Thus, the most important and critical finding in this study is that physically active individuals benefit (i.e. greater muscle fiber size and enhanced squat jump performance) from timed protein supplementation in conjunction with heavy resistance training whereas carbohydrate supplementation had no effect.
Looking at diets
It is unclear why the carbohydrate-consuming group did not experience significant muscle fiber hypertrophy from the training alone. Dietary analysis showed that the two groups had the same levels of energy and protein intake before the training intervention. However, the investigators did not measure food intake during the treatment period.
It is quite possible that energy and macronutrient intake differed between groups during the intervention; however, it would seem implausible that only one group would make systematic changes in their overall diet while the other remained unchanged.
The protein supplemented group experienced a significant increase in squat jump height while countermovement jump height and peak torque during slow isokinetic muscle contraction increased similarly in both groups. It isn’t clear mechanistically why this discrepancy was found.
Nonetheless, neural adaptation (i.e. rate coding, motor unit recruitment) would explain the performance changes in the carbohydrate supplemented group. Perhaps a slight advantage in the protein supplemented group was manifest in one of the performance measures due to the fact that muscle fiber size increased only that group.
Nonetheless, it is apparent from this investigation as well as others, that consuming protein or a combination of protein plus carbohydrate is important for enhancing the adaptive response to exercise.6-14
Based on this recent investigation, it is apparent that you can consume protein/amino acids pre- and post-exercise (without carbohydrate) and get significant benefits in terms of muscle fiber size and performance. From a practical standpoint, it would make sense that athletes should be advised to consume a meal before and after training. For the sake of convenience, this meal may be best consumed as a ready-to-drink beverage.
Strength-power athletes would likely need to place greater emphasis on protein (and less so on carbohydrate) because of the dietary needs vis-à-vis skeletal muscle growth whereas endurance athletes may need proportionately more carbohydrate with protein to promote skeletal muscle glycogen repletion. Sports nutritionists must of course work with each individual to determine what works best for their particular athlete.
Practical Application Summary
It is best to consume a combination of protein and carbohydrate immediately post-exercise (as well as pre-exercise if your stomach can handle it) for promoting optimal gains in lean body mass. There isn’t a magic ratio per se in carbohydrate to protein. What is clear however is that if you don’t take advantage of this “nutrient timing” window, the benefits you incur will be less.
A minimum of 100 total calories post-workout has been shown to have significant positive benefits. If you are in the “physique” sports such as bodybuilding or fitness/figure competitions, a ratio favoring more protein than carbohydrate is likely better.
References
1. Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE. Independent and combined effects of liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion on hormonal and muscular adaptations following resistance training in untrained men. Eur J Appl Physiol. Mar 24 2006.
2. Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE. Effects of liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion on acute hormonal response during a single bout of resistance exercise in untrained men. Nutrition. Apr 2006;22(4):367-375.
3. Bird SP, Tarpenning KM, Marino FE. Liquid carbohydrate/essential amino acid ingestion during a short-term bout of resistance exercise suppresses myofibrillar protein degradation. Metabolism. May 2006;55(5):570-577.
4. Flakoll PJ, Judy T, Flinn K, Carr C, Flinn S. Postexercise protein supplementation improves health and muscle soreness during basic military training in marine recruits. J Appl Physiol. Mar 2004;96(3):951-956.
5. Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, et al. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. Aug 2001;281(2):E197-206.
6. Andersen LL, Tufekovic G, Zebis MK, et al. The effect of resistance training combined with timed ingestion of protein on muscle fiber size and muscle strength. Metabolism. Feb 2005;54(2):151-156.
7. Tipton KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM, Doyle D, Jr., Wolfe RR. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am J Physiol. Apr 1999;276(4 Pt 1):E628-634.
8. Rasmussen BB, Tipton KD, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR. An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. Feb 2000;88(2):386-392.
9. van Loon LJ, Kruijshoop M, Verhagen H, Saris WH, Wagenmakers AJ. Ingestion of protein hydrolysate and amino acid-carbohydrate mixtures increases postexercise plasma insulin responses in men. J Nutr. Oct 2000;130(10):2508-2513.
10. Esmarck B, Andersen JL, Olsen S, Richter EA, Mizuno M, Kjaer M. Timing of postexercise protein intake is important for muscle hypertrophy with resistance training in elderly humans. J Physiol. Aug 15 2001;535(Pt 1):301-311.
11. Ivy JL, Goforth HW, Jr., Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB. Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. Oct 2002;93(4):1337-1344.
12. Williams MB, Raven PB, Fogt DL, Ivy JL. Effects of recovery beverages on glycogen restoration and endurance exercise performance. J Strength Cond Res. Feb 2003;17(1):12-19.
13. Saunders MJ, Kane MD, Todd MK. Effects of a carbohydrate-protein beverage on cycling endurance and muscle damage. Med Sci Sports Exerc. Jul 2004;36(7):1233-1238.
14. Tipton KD, Wolfe RR. Protein and amino acids for athletes. J Sports Sci. Jan 2004;22(1):65-79.[/COLOR]
thewilman
Well-known member
I love those...with the chocolate in the base of the cone so the ice cream doesn't melt thru! Of course, I never give mine a chance to melt
The one I am referring to was like a GIANT kit kat with peanut butter and chocolate! :head:
EasyEJL
Never enough
but carbs are the devil
thewilman
Well-known member
I wish I was Wil Riker on Star Trek the Next Generation...just not fat!
That's why I spell my name with one L. OK, so I'm geeky!
thewilman
Well-known member
Man! You even think about a SBD pizza and Stud appears! WOW!!! :toofunny:
thewilman
Well-known member
thewilman
Well-known member
Or Beetlejuice!
xjsynx
Member
What you fail to understand is: There is no bad carb, just a poorly timed carb. And with that being said, I am not cutting. Heck I am not even watching what I am eating.
I eat whatever, whenever...So, don't get it twisted my friend.
xjsynx
Member
I posted an image, where a site did the same thing Wil, but it replaced it with a more obscene image, and I get threatened once again that I will be banned......
thewilman
Well-known member
Wait...I thought you gave up keto?
thewilman
Well-known member
bitterplacebo
Well-known member
thewilman
Well-known member
:jaw: when did that happen???
xjsynx
Member
Easy has gone through almost all the extremes in about 2-3 month span.....but he will argue and all this crap, talk about mega-dosing, and everything he learns from board reps and the like.....
A bunch of Invalid Link Removed
EasyEJL
Never enough
I'm trying to subscribe to a slightly modified metabolic advantage diet. even so, its kinda vague truthfully. he says no carbs except during workout and up to 3 hours later, but he has quinoa and regular beans in meals outside of that on the meal plan... still I am going to go with carb cycling + tapering. so workout days (I work out first thing mornings) i'll have carbs up till lunchtime and all of those as complex as a muthaflicka (except maybe dextrose peri-workout), non workout days i'll have none at all other than trace in vegetables.
xjsynx
Member
:toofunny:
xjsynx
Member
Proally right after you posted it.
You might be seeing the real image, because it is still in your browser cache.
But I get castigated and accused of mocking and abusing my privileges...
EasyEJL
Never enough
I'm still trying to find a combination that feels decent and has reasonable results at the same time. Feeling good but with no results is pointless, feeling like crap but getting decent results doesn't really work well either.
Keto's benegits aren't there for me, not till i'm at a lower bodyfat. I can get down a bit more without going there.
xjsynx
Member
So how are your results?
EasyEJL
Never enough
I must admit the "picture jacking" picture was kind of funny in a way
bitterplacebo
Well-known member
yes, I think you can also quit a quitting that you quit
quit stops looking like a word when you use it that many times so close together
quit stops looking like a word when you use it that many times so close together
EasyEJL
Never enough
When I go on a limited but not no carb, and don't workout myself to death trying to do 1200 calories of exersize a day, I can steadily loose 1-2 lbs a week. so I just need to be patient and do that.
EasyEJL
Never enough
basically a quitters tongue twister
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