xjsynx
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Only if the other hand is a female kine....
While the boss is away............Thread
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Only if the other hand is a female kine....
xjsynx
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Shoulder Saver #1: Avoid what hurts
It seems logical, but we all know how tough it is to resist the exercises we've grown to love. Face the facts; you just might not be able to overhead press or bench with the straight bar.
Not all bodies are created equal in the first place; a good example would be the different types of acromions, a portion of the scapula. Those with type III acromions are more likely to suffer from subacromial impingement due to the shape of this end of the scapula:
These are the 3 types:
Type I Acromion: flat, minimal impingement risk, normal subacromial space
Type II Acromion: curved, higher rate of impingement, slight decrease in subacromial space
Type III Acromion: beaked, highest rate of impingement, marked decrease in subacromial space
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Now, ask yourself this: when someone universally recommends overhead pressing, how often do you think they're consulting x-rays to determine if it might not be the best thing for you?
Moreover, not all bodies are equal down the road, either. If you're a type I or type II acromion process, you can "acquire" a type III morphology due to reactive changes. These changes may be related to a specific activity (e.g. weight-training) or just a case of chronically poor movement patterns (think of a hunchbacked desk jockey who's always reaching overhead).
There's almost always going to be something else you can do to achieve a comparable training effect without making things worse. So, the next time your shoulder starts to act up in the middle of a training session, put down the weights, take a deep breath, and walk over to the water fountain.
Use this stroll as an opportunity to recognize that something is out of whack and determine an appropriate course of action — including an alternative exercise. You might need to experiment a bit, but it'll come to you.
It seems logical, but we all know how tough it is to resist the exercises we've grown to love. Face the facts; you just might not be able to overhead press or bench with the straight bar.
Not all bodies are created equal in the first place; a good example would be the different types of acromions, a portion of the scapula. Those with type III acromions are more likely to suffer from subacromial impingement due to the shape of this end of the scapula:
These are the 3 types:
Type I Acromion: flat, minimal impingement risk, normal subacromial space
Type II Acromion: curved, higher rate of impingement, slight decrease in subacromial space
Type III Acromion: beaked, highest rate of impingement, marked decrease in subacromial space
Invalid Link Removed
Now, ask yourself this: when someone universally recommends overhead pressing, how often do you think they're consulting x-rays to determine if it might not be the best thing for you?
Moreover, not all bodies are equal down the road, either. If you're a type I or type II acromion process, you can "acquire" a type III morphology due to reactive changes. These changes may be related to a specific activity (e.g. weight-training) or just a case of chronically poor movement patterns (think of a hunchbacked desk jockey who's always reaching overhead).
There's almost always going to be something else you can do to achieve a comparable training effect without making things worse. So, the next time your shoulder starts to act up in the middle of a training session, put down the weights, take a deep breath, and walk over to the water fountain.
Use this stroll as an opportunity to recognize that something is out of whack and determine an appropriate course of action — including an alternative exercise. You might need to experiment a bit, but it'll come to you.
John Smeton
Legend
I love getting things done I love the act of doing! Im a Do-er!
John Smeton
Legend
Im doing all lateral mocements for my shoulders currently no pressing. I used to go heavy when I first started out on Military presses
xjsynx
Member
Shoulder Saver #2: Serratus Anterior Activation Work
The serratus anterior is a small muscle, but it's of profound importance when it comes to scapulohumeral rhythm and, in turn, shoulder health.
Essentially, this muscle locks the scapula to the rib cage to prevent the scapula from winging out. It assists the pectoralis minor with protraction, but most importantly, it's involved in a delicately-balanced force coupled with the upper and lower trapezius for scapular upward rotation, a movement in which you need to be perfect to function safely with overhead movements.
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Unfortunately, the serratus anterior will always be the first muscle to "shut down" in the face of any sort of scapulohumeral dysfunction, and activating it is a crucial component of all rehabilitation programs for the shoulder girdle.
I could literally give a day-long seminar on all the different pathologies in which serratus anterior dysfunction is involved in some way. So, why not take care of it ahead of time? Two great exercises are the scap push-up and supine 1-arm dumbbell protraction
Stick with high reps on these; a few sets of 15-20 a few times per week will do wonders for you without interfering with the rest of your training.
The serratus anterior is a small muscle, but it's of profound importance when it comes to scapulohumeral rhythm and, in turn, shoulder health.
Essentially, this muscle locks the scapula to the rib cage to prevent the scapula from winging out. It assists the pectoralis minor with protraction, but most importantly, it's involved in a delicately-balanced force coupled with the upper and lower trapezius for scapular upward rotation, a movement in which you need to be perfect to function safely with overhead movements.
Invalid Link Removed
Unfortunately, the serratus anterior will always be the first muscle to "shut down" in the face of any sort of scapulohumeral dysfunction, and activating it is a crucial component of all rehabilitation programs for the shoulder girdle.
I could literally give a day-long seminar on all the different pathologies in which serratus anterior dysfunction is involved in some way. So, why not take care of it ahead of time? Two great exercises are the scap push-up and supine 1-arm dumbbell protraction
Stick with high reps on these; a few sets of 15-20 a few times per week will do wonders for you without interfering with the rest of your training.
xjsynx
Member
Shoulder Saver #3: Learn to Bench Press Correctly.
This might very well be the most important one of all. I must admit that when I see a lifter benching with his elbows flared and his back flat, it makes me cringe — not only because he's ruining his shoulders, but also because he's really limiting his strength potential.
There's an old saying that a lot of great bench pressers have repeated when discussing the importance of the upper back in benching: "You can't shoot a cannon out of a canoe." If you don't have the underlying stability to press big weights, the soft tissues of the shoulder joint are going to suffer the consequences.
Stability is affected by both neuromuscular factors and positional factors; simply repositioning yourself on the bench can markedly increase your strength without any chronic changes to your neuromuscular system's ability to move the weight. Here's what you need to do:
Keep in mind that most ordinary weekend warriors and lifting enthusiasts don't have to push the arch; they just need to let the natural lumbar curve of the spine do its thing.
This might very well be the most important one of all. I must admit that when I see a lifter benching with his elbows flared and his back flat, it makes me cringe — not only because he's ruining his shoulders, but also because he's really limiting his strength potential.
There's an old saying that a lot of great bench pressers have repeated when discussing the importance of the upper back in benching: "You can't shoot a cannon out of a canoe." If you don't have the underlying stability to press big weights, the soft tissues of the shoulder joint are going to suffer the consequences.
Stability is affected by both neuromuscular factors and positional factors; simply repositioning yourself on the bench can markedly increase your strength without any chronic changes to your neuromuscular system's ability to move the weight. Here's what you need to do:
1. Line up on the bench so that your eyes are about 3-4 inches toward your feet from the bar (in other words, the bar is almost directly above the top of your head). From there, retract your shoulder blades hard. Next, push yourself back up until your eyes are directly under the bar; at this position, your scapulae should still be retracted, but also depressed down toward your feet as well. If you do it right, your rib cage should pop right up.
2. Set your feet, and lock them into place. The position of the feet is going to be dependent on a number of factors, but what doesn't change is the fact that they need to be fixed in place.
3. Decide on what degree of arch you want to use. For general health purposes, it doesn't need to be much. Obviously, powerlifters are going to need to push the envelope on this front. The more arch, the more it'll feel like a decline bench press. Declines will always be easier on the shoulder girdle than flat bench pressing.
4. Grasp the bar and USE A HANDOFF from your training partner. Lifting off to yourself is a sure-fire way to lose the tightness you've just established in your upper back. Keep the shoulder blades back and down!
5. As you lower the bar, keep the upper arms at a 45-degree angle to the torso; tuck the elbows instead of letting them flare out. It's well documented that the elbows-flared ("bodybuilder-style") bench markedly increases stress on the glenohumeral joint. Also, keep your wrists under your elbows instead of letting them roll back.
6. Get a belly full of air and make the abdomen and chest rise up to meet the bar as it descends. Think of it as creating a springboard for moving big weights and, just as importantly, keeping those shoulder blades back to save your taters from undue stress.
7. Do not excessively protract the shoulder blades at the top of the rep; you shouldn't lose your tightness prior to descending into the subsequent rep.
2. Set your feet, and lock them into place. The position of the feet is going to be dependent on a number of factors, but what doesn't change is the fact that they need to be fixed in place.
3. Decide on what degree of arch you want to use. For general health purposes, it doesn't need to be much. Obviously, powerlifters are going to need to push the envelope on this front. The more arch, the more it'll feel like a decline bench press. Declines will always be easier on the shoulder girdle than flat bench pressing.
4. Grasp the bar and USE A HANDOFF from your training partner. Lifting off to yourself is a sure-fire way to lose the tightness you've just established in your upper back. Keep the shoulder blades back and down!
5. As you lower the bar, keep the upper arms at a 45-degree angle to the torso; tuck the elbows instead of letting them flare out. It's well documented that the elbows-flared ("bodybuilder-style") bench markedly increases stress on the glenohumeral joint. Also, keep your wrists under your elbows instead of letting them roll back.
6. Get a belly full of air and make the abdomen and chest rise up to meet the bar as it descends. Think of it as creating a springboard for moving big weights and, just as importantly, keeping those shoulder blades back to save your taters from undue stress.
7. Do not excessively protract the shoulder blades at the top of the rep; you shouldn't lose your tightness prior to descending into the subsequent rep.
Keep in mind that most ordinary weekend warriors and lifting enthusiasts don't have to push the arch; they just need to let the natural lumbar curve of the spine do its thing.
xjsynx
Member
Shoulder Saver #4: Get up from your desk.
Poor posture is a big risk factor for hundreds of musculoskeletal injuries and conditions. Specific to the current discussion, rounded shoulders, an excessively kyphotic thoracic spine (think hunchback), and anteriorly-tilted, protracted scapulae will all predispose you to problems with the rotator cuff, long head of the biceps, labrum, and several crucial scapular stabilizers. With this in mind, I should introduce something I call the "23/1 Rule."
Very simply, this rule states that although you may do everything perfectly from a technique standpoint while you're in the gym for ONE hour per day, you have TWENTY-THREE hours to do everything incorrectly outside of the gym. This is especially applicable to the desks jockeys in the crowd who spend 8-10 hours per day at the computer in hopes of winning a Kyphotic Derby crown.
The solution is very simple: quit your job. Okay, I'm kidding. Instead, make a point of getting up and moving around as often as you can. Reach up to the sky, walk around, and do some doorway stretches for your pecs and lats (and your hip flexors, IT band, and calves, while you're at it). The best posture is the one that is constantly changing. Remember that although lifting is the straw that breaks the camel's back with respect to your shoulder problems, it isn't the only contributing factor; lifestyle plays a big role.
Poor posture is a big risk factor for hundreds of musculoskeletal injuries and conditions. Specific to the current discussion, rounded shoulders, an excessively kyphotic thoracic spine (think hunchback), and anteriorly-tilted, protracted scapulae will all predispose you to problems with the rotator cuff, long head of the biceps, labrum, and several crucial scapular stabilizers. With this in mind, I should introduce something I call the "23/1 Rule."
Very simply, this rule states that although you may do everything perfectly from a technique standpoint while you're in the gym for ONE hour per day, you have TWENTY-THREE hours to do everything incorrectly outside of the gym. This is especially applicable to the desks jockeys in the crowd who spend 8-10 hours per day at the computer in hopes of winning a Kyphotic Derby crown.
The solution is very simple: quit your job. Okay, I'm kidding. Instead, make a point of getting up and moving around as often as you can. Reach up to the sky, walk around, and do some doorway stretches for your pecs and lats (and your hip flexors, IT band, and calves, while you're at it). The best posture is the one that is constantly changing. Remember that although lifting is the straw that breaks the camel's back with respect to your shoulder problems, it isn't the only contributing factor; lifestyle plays a big role.
John Smeton
Legend
Yes posture is important I wish there were a video on this with diagrams instead of all this reading
xjsynx
Member
Shoulder Saver #5: Structural Balance in Training
There's been a lot of talk of balancing horizontal pushing (e.g. bench pressing) with horizontal pulling (e.g. rowing), and vertical pushing (e.g. overhead pressing) with vertical pulling (e.g. chinning). For the most part, this system works pretty well.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of exceptions to these rules, and often times, people walk away more confused after hearing this than they were before the issue came up. With that in mind, I've come to the conclusion that about the only thing you can do is make a list of all the exercises that come to mind, and show how they "balance each other out."
I look for balance in three main pairs of antagonist movement patterns: scapular retraction vs. protraction, scapular depression vs. elevation, and humeral external rotation vs. internal rotation. In the balancing equation, absolute loading isn't nearly as important as total reps.
Scapular Retraction>>>>>>>>>>>>Scapular Protraction
All Rowing*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All Bench Pressing
Rear Delt Fly**>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All Flyes
Prone Trap Raise Variations***>>>>>>>>>Dips
*Excluding Upright Rows
**Also involves horizontal abduction and external rotation
***Counts as scapular depression, too
Scapular Depression>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Scapular Elevation
Scapular Wall Slides>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shrugs
Prone Trap Raise Variations>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Upright Rows
Behind-the-Neck Band Pulldowns>>>>>>>>>Cleans and Snatches
Prone Cobras to 10&2 (held for time)>>>>>Seated DB Cleans
Straight-Arm Lat Pulldowns (strict!)>>>>>>Cuban Presses
Humeral External Rotation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Humeral Internal Rotation
All External Rotation Variations>>>>>>>>>>>Bench Pressing, Pushups
Seated DB Cleans>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pullups/Pulldowns
Cuban Presses>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Front Raises
Rear Delt Flyes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dips
Prone Trap Raises>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Overhead Pressing
Prone Cobras (held for time)>>>>>>>>All Internal Rotation Variations
Now, I've deliberately set these charts up so that you'll realize that the exercises in all left-hand columns are the ones most lifters tend to overlook altogether. If your posture isn't looking so hot, and your shoulders are bugging you, chances are that you need to shift to the left for a while until you've balanced out.
There's been a lot of talk of balancing horizontal pushing (e.g. bench pressing) with horizontal pulling (e.g. rowing), and vertical pushing (e.g. overhead pressing) with vertical pulling (e.g. chinning). For the most part, this system works pretty well.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of exceptions to these rules, and often times, people walk away more confused after hearing this than they were before the issue came up. With that in mind, I've come to the conclusion that about the only thing you can do is make a list of all the exercises that come to mind, and show how they "balance each other out."
I look for balance in three main pairs of antagonist movement patterns: scapular retraction vs. protraction, scapular depression vs. elevation, and humeral external rotation vs. internal rotation. In the balancing equation, absolute loading isn't nearly as important as total reps.
Scapular Retraction>>>>>>>>>>>>Scapular Protraction
All Rowing*>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All Bench Pressing
Rear Delt Fly**>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All Flyes
Prone Trap Raise Variations***>>>>>>>>>Dips
*Excluding Upright Rows
**Also involves horizontal abduction and external rotation
***Counts as scapular depression, too
Scapular Depression>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Scapular Elevation
Scapular Wall Slides>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shrugs
Prone Trap Raise Variations>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Upright Rows
Behind-the-Neck Band Pulldowns>>>>>>>>>Cleans and Snatches
Prone Cobras to 10&2 (held for time)>>>>>Seated DB Cleans
Straight-Arm Lat Pulldowns (strict!)>>>>>>Cuban Presses
Humeral External Rotation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Humeral Internal Rotation
All External Rotation Variations>>>>>>>>>>>Bench Pressing, Pushups
Seated DB Cleans>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Pullups/Pulldowns
Cuban Presses>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Front Raises
Rear Delt Flyes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dips
Prone Trap Raises>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Overhead Pressing
Prone Cobras (held for time)>>>>>>>>All Internal Rotation Variations
Now, I've deliberately set these charts up so that you'll realize that the exercises in all left-hand columns are the ones most lifters tend to overlook altogether. If your posture isn't looking so hot, and your shoulders are bugging you, chances are that you need to shift to the left for a while until you've balanced out.
xjsynx
Member
There is, but reading is positive.
xjsynx
Member
Shoulder Saver #6: Ditching the "Shoulder Day"
After reviewing the list of patterns above, hopefully you'll realize that adding in a full "shoulder day" to your programming is going to be overkill for this often-injured joint. You'll get virtually all the stimulus you need to build big shoulders from your bench presses, rows, chin-ups, and external rotation work. If you feel like you need to do direct traditional shoulder work, add in some overhead pressing and lateral raises sparingly — not on a day of their own.
After reviewing the list of patterns above, hopefully you'll realize that adding in a full "shoulder day" to your programming is going to be overkill for this often-injured joint. You'll get virtually all the stimulus you need to build big shoulders from your bench presses, rows, chin-ups, and external rotation work. If you feel like you need to do direct traditional shoulder work, add in some overhead pressing and lateral raises sparingly — not on a day of their own.
xjsynx
Member
Shoulder Saver #7: Soft Tissue Work
While the shoulder joint is designed for mobility at the expense of stability, that's not to say that it isn't "exempt" from significant soft tissue restrictions. Getting some work done on these adhesions can make a huge difference in helping you to establish and maintain proper functioning in your shoulder girdle. Modalities such as Active Release, rolfing, Graston, massage, and even foam rolling can all make huge differences in breaking down all the junk you've amassed in your shoulder girdles.
While the shoulder joint is designed for mobility at the expense of stability, that's not to say that it isn't "exempt" from significant soft tissue restrictions. Getting some work done on these adhesions can make a huge difference in helping you to establish and maintain proper functioning in your shoulder girdle. Modalities such as Active Release, rolfing, Graston, massage, and even foam rolling can all make huge differences in breaking down all the junk you've amassed in your shoulder girdles.
xjsynx
Member
Shoulder Saver #8: Seated Cable Rows
For some reason, the seated cable row just doesn't get the love it deserves. This might be my single favorite movement for overall shoulder girdle health; you won't find a stricter means of training scapular retraction effectively with appreciable loading.
With bent-over, chest-supported, and one-arm dumbbell rows, the tendency is just too great to cheat, and there's always a tendency for the lats to take over for the scapular retractors. These benefits, of course, are dependent on proper execution of the movement; you can actually make your shoulder problems worse if you do any rowing variation incorrectly. The three most common cheating/substitution patterns we see are:
Hip-Lumbar Extension
This is just your classic case of a guy who thinks he's on a rowing machine. Whether he's rounding his lumbar spine or not (he shouldn't) is of little concern to the shoulder discussion at hand; the hips and lumbar spine need to be locked into place. All the motion is at the scapulae and arms.
Scapular Elevation — Humeral Extension
The upper traps are dominant over the middle and lower traps and rhomboids as retractors of the scapulae, so the shoulder girdles elevate with retraction. Because the upper traps also anteriorly tilt the scapulae, the only way to get full range of motion on the movement is to extend the upper arms with the lats, teres major, and long head of the triceps. This pattern simply reinforces a kyphotic, forward head posture with internally rotated humeri.
Head Extension-Chin Protrusion-Elbow Flexion
For those with insufficient range of motion in both scapular retraction and humeral extension, the only way to falsely "get the feel" of full range-of-motion is to force the chin to protrude out — and then "finish" the movement with elbow flexion.
Essentially, it's a chin poke to bring the body further away from the pulley, and then a curl to bring the handle to the abdomen without actually extending the humeri or retracting the scapulae. It seems kind of silly to make more range-of-motion for yourself just so that you can do the movement incorrectly in that new range, huh? The video below features a spin-off version where the chin is just tucked to the chest, but the ending effect is the same; it just depends where the line of sight is.
For some reason, the seated cable row just doesn't get the love it deserves. This might be my single favorite movement for overall shoulder girdle health; you won't find a stricter means of training scapular retraction effectively with appreciable loading.
With bent-over, chest-supported, and one-arm dumbbell rows, the tendency is just too great to cheat, and there's always a tendency for the lats to take over for the scapular retractors. These benefits, of course, are dependent on proper execution of the movement; you can actually make your shoulder problems worse if you do any rowing variation incorrectly. The three most common cheating/substitution patterns we see are:
Hip-Lumbar Extension
This is just your classic case of a guy who thinks he's on a rowing machine. Whether he's rounding his lumbar spine or not (he shouldn't) is of little concern to the shoulder discussion at hand; the hips and lumbar spine need to be locked into place. All the motion is at the scapulae and arms.
Scapular Elevation — Humeral Extension
The upper traps are dominant over the middle and lower traps and rhomboids as retractors of the scapulae, so the shoulder girdles elevate with retraction. Because the upper traps also anteriorly tilt the scapulae, the only way to get full range of motion on the movement is to extend the upper arms with the lats, teres major, and long head of the triceps. This pattern simply reinforces a kyphotic, forward head posture with internally rotated humeri.
Head Extension-Chin Protrusion-Elbow Flexion
For those with insufficient range of motion in both scapular retraction and humeral extension, the only way to falsely "get the feel" of full range-of-motion is to force the chin to protrude out — and then "finish" the movement with elbow flexion.
Essentially, it's a chin poke to bring the body further away from the pulley, and then a curl to bring the handle to the abdomen without actually extending the humeri or retracting the scapulae. It seems kind of silly to make more range-of-motion for yourself just so that you can do the movement incorrectly in that new range, huh? The video below features a spin-off version where the chin is just tucked to the chest, but the ending effect is the same; it just depends where the line of sight is.
xjsynx
Member
Eric Cressey, M.A., C.S.C.S., has helped athletes of all levels achieve their highest levels of performance. Specializing in functional anatomy and biomechanics, Eric is a highly sought-after coach for healthy and injured athletes alike. An accomplished competitive powerlifter, Cressey trains at the world-renowned South Side Gym in Stratford, Connecticut
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bitterplacebo
Well-known member
bitterplacebo
Well-known member
Reading is a noble goal
and getting laid is a popular goal
xjsynx
Member
xjsynx
Member
Reading is a noble goal
A book a day keeps the ladies away....or something like that????
bitterplacebo
Well-known member
bitterplacebo
Well-known member
thewilman
Well-known member
J's back! LOL
bitterplacebo
Well-known member
is that a rhetorical question?
thewilman
Well-known member
Dr Packenwood
Well-known member
I'll give you a shiney penny if you let me go....
OK!......
TASTESTS SALTY!
LMFAO*100
OK!......
TASTESTS SALTY!
LMFAO*100
John Smeton
Legend
These Detour oatmeal bars are nice tasting.
xjsynx
Member
If you are trying to loose weight, you need to avoid 'bars' no matter how mature you think they are.
xjsynx
Member
EasyEJL
Never enough
bitterplacebo
Well-known member
what's so great about them?
Serving Size: 1 bar (50g0
Servings Per Container: 15
Amount per Serving
Calories Total 190
from Fat 60
Total Fat 6 g 9%
Saturated Fat 4 g 20%
Cholesterol <5 mg 1%
Sodium 190 mg 8%
Potassium 95 mg 3%
Total Carbohydrate 23 g 8%
Dietary fiber 2 g 8%
Sugars 1 g
Sugar alcohol 19 g
Protein 14 g 27%
I'm pretty sure the sugar alcohols still count as carbohydrate calories, they just don't impact blood glucose levels as greatly as regular sugar.
xjsynx
Member
23g of carbs is 23g of carbs. Which is very bad on a keto diet. What is the ingredients of these bars?
xjsynx
Member
Good stuff. Had some homemade elk jerky the other week...
Did Dsade ever get that Bison jerky in?
EasyEJL
Never enough
the carbs are from malitol, and the primary protein source is casein.
xjsynx
Member
You still have a lot to learn. Also, isn't Balance geared towards women? Do you eat Special K too :toofunny:
The only time I see a bar coming in handy is not while dieting down, but a bulk or the like.
EasyEJL
Never enough
I'm not eating these all day long, I just keep 1 or 2 around as spares, probably have eaten 2 in the last 3 weeks (both when I was in a situation where I couldn't eat much of anything else - ie driving). I was more just reminiscing on the horrible nutrient profiles and taste of the bars 10+ years ago, vs todays.
xjsynx
Member
Ingredients:
Protein Blend (Soy Protein Isolate, Casein, Whey Protein Isolate, Milk Protein Concentrate, Calcium Caseinate, Sodium Caseinate), Maltitol Syrup, Maltitol, Glycerin, Fractionated Palm Kernel Oil, Chocolate, High Maltose Corn Syrup, Contains Less Than 2% of Natural Flavor, Heavy Cream, Cocoa, Cocoa Powder (Processed with Alkali)), Oligofructose (Chicory Fiber), Soy Lecithin, Soybean Oil, Salt, Canola Oil, Carrageenan, Fractionated Vegetable Oil (Palm and Palm Kernel Oils), Beta Carotene, Acscorbic Acid (Vitamin C), Calcium Phosphate, Ferric Orthophosphate (Iron), Vitamin E Acetate, Phytonadione (Vitamin K1), Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacinamide, Vitamin B6, Folic Acid, Vitamin B12, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Potassium Iodide, Magnesium Oxide, Zinc Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Copper Gluconate, Manganese Sulfate, Chromium Chloride, Sodium Molybdate, Fish Gelatin
The primary source is Soy Protein Isolate. The good thing is, you and teh wifee should be lactating together, that way you can share breast feeding duties,
xjsynx
Member
two, too many when dieting. But hey, it is your cut not mine. Heck I ain't even dieting, but when you are asking yourself, what am I not getting the result I want...
No need to get defensive, and I don't mean that in a combative kind of way, I am just trying to help you out.
EasyEJL
Never enough
hmm I found a wrapper for the ones I have that listed casein first, but either way, not a spectacular source even if soy is second.
Do you recall those chewy nasty Tiger Milk bars?
xjsynx
Member
Sugar alcohols are not a gimmick. They have been proven to have negligible effects on insulin response. This is only important for people who are diabetic. Anyone else should count them as regular old carbs. Now a diabetic should also count them as carbs, but can either adjust their insulin intake (if on insulin) or just plain not be as concerned they are going to get a spike from them.
Overall sugar alcohols are poison and should be avoided, in my opinion.
Overall sugar alcohols are poison and should be avoided, in my opinion.
xjsynx
Member
I agree with most of this but have to disagree on the negligible effects on insulin response. I was in the hospital with my mother (none diabetic solid diet) and they were monitoring here insulin levels post surgery. Well we decided to do a lil experiment and gave her ONE single so called sugar free russel stovers chocolate that was made with sugar alcohols a few minutes pre test and it SKY rocketed her blood sugar on the test from just one piece.
That was a hell of an eye opener for me to say the least
xjsynx
Member
They still make them, and they have soy protein in them as well. My bro-ib-law bought me one, and I threw it in the trash.
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