High Total Estrogen - Low Estradiol

doughboy

New member
My estrogen is too high and my estradioil is too low.

Total estrogen is 188
Estradiol is 7

I have been using 250 mg of arimidex eod, talked my doctor and she said it is ok to take 250mg every day.

Am I at risk of totalling killing my Estradiol?

I need to get my Estrogen down because while I do not have gyno, at times my chest feels funny and itchy.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
 
Total Estrogen blood assay is invalid, and that's per Dr. Crisler's opinion.. lol Stop taking the Arimidex.

.
 
BigAk said:
Total Estrogen blood assay is invalid, and that's per Dr. Crisler's opinion.. lol Stop taking the Arimidex.

.
Click to expand...


Yes I do remember him saying that but I am way out of range and I am having some slight chest issues. You really think I should stop?
 
doughboy said:
Yes I do remember him saying that but I am way out of range and I am having some slight chest issues. You really think I should stop?
Click to expand...

I don't know doughboy.... Your thread caught my eye and made me laugh... That's because we are identical in this respect. My E2 is 7 ... My total T is 116 (upper max is 115)... I am a patient of Dr. Crisler and although I had major concerns about my total E, he dismissed it as invalid. When you mention this to any Dr. they get this puzzled disbelief look on their faces. On one hand I want to believe in Dr. John as he's a poineer in his field. On the other hand I can't help but wonder if my total T not going up due to my high total Estrogen??? which I don't know if it's truly high or not??? See my delimma?? hahah...

I think the best way to dermine the truth is via 24hr urine test... But, those cost about $225 and my insurance won't cover it... Arrrrgggg... makes me mad...

But, yea.. I don't think you should take the Arimidex if you're E2 is seven. If Dr. Crisler is right, you'll be doing some major harm to your health taking the Arimidex..
 
BigAk said:
I don't know doughboy.... Your thread caught my eye and made me laugh... That's because we are identical in this respect. My E2 is 7 ... My total T is 116 (upper max is 115)... I am a patient of Dr. Crisler and although I had major concerns about my total E, he dismissed it as invalid. When you mention this to any Dr. they get this puzzled disbelief look on their faces. On one hand I want to believe in Dr. John as he's a poineer in his field. On the other hand I can't help but wonder if my total T not going up due to my high total Estrogen??? which I don't know if it's truly high or not??? See my delimma?? hahah...

I think the best way to dermine the truth is via 24hr urine test... But, those cost about $225 and my insurance won't cover it... Arrrrgggg... makes me mad...

But, yea.. I don't think you should take the Arimidex if you're E2 is seven. If Dr. Crisler is right, you'll be doing some major harm to your health taking the Arimidex..
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info.
Does Dr Crisler still reply to posts here?


One other problem I am having is that my urine flow is weak.
I thought that was caused by high estrogen. So confused.
 
BigAk said:
Dr. Crisler does not reply to posts here anymore.
Click to expand...


Is he posting on any forums anywhere?

Someone also told me that his website (I don't have its specific URL handy anywhere) also had been changed and that the "free pprotocols" formerly listed on his site have been removed (???)

Thanks for any info.

TJ
 
BigAk said:
If Dr. Crisler is right, you'll be doing some major harm to your health taking the Arimidex..
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this? Arimidex in and of itself is not harmful...but taking your estrogens too low is. Is that what you meant?
 
doughboy said:
I think Arimidex can lower your estraiol too much which happened to me and that is not a good thing.
Click to expand...

I use Quest

Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)

to figure out my E2 status.
The result of the test is

Estradiol, Free (Males (Adult): < or = 0.45 pg/mL )
Estradiol (Males (Adult): < or = 29 pg/mL)

On my last test I had
E2=29 that would be acceptable

but I got

Estradiol, Free=0.75 that is high

I increased my LiquiDex from 0.5cc to 0.6cc (E3D schedule)

next blood test will tell the rest of the story.

I list the test and adjustments made based on results of the test, in my post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html

I look at E2 the same way as I do look at
T, DHT, T3 and T4
only the Free part is really important.
 
hardasnails1973 said:
My e2 is also at 75 at least last reading it was. I think I am very senitive to AI as well. I know that my dosage is between .30 and .50 mgs a week. So in case point the DIM did not lower your e2 and just probably changed the pathways it was metabolized. What was your last e2 reading and what is your current protocol. Are you on hcg as well? I have altered 2/16 ratio why i am on DIm right now, but like you said i do not think it affects e2 as people thing.
Click to expand...

HAN
look at my post #10 on this thread.

I suggest you do your Arimidex (better LiquiDex) adjustments based on FreeE2.
SensitiveE2 may not be telling the whole story.

FreeE2 is the way to go.
 
JanSz said:
HAN
look at my post #10 on this thread.

I suggest you do your Arimidex (better LiquiDex) adjustments based on FreeE2.
SensitiveE2 may not be telling the whole story.

FreeE2 is the way to go.
Click to expand...

I know we can estimate free T using Total T and SHBG: Invalid Link Removed

I looked but could not find a similar calculator for free E2. I don't see why it's not possible as it is the same concept. I also wonder whether the same calculator might already figure free E2. The only difference between T and E2 is one carbon, perhaps it binds in the same way?
 
JanSz said:
HAN
look at my post #10 on this thread.

I suggest you do your Arimidex (better LiquiDex) adjustments based on FreeE2.
SensitiveE2 may not be telling the whole story.

FreeE2 is the way to go.
Click to expand...

i just talked representative from energetic nutriton about DIM and they told me that it will actually bind to shbg and reduce shbg that would be produced by the liver. So hence low 2/16ratio would caused increased shbg which is a BIG issue in my case and may be as well as many other cases.
 
hardasnails1973 said:
i just talked representative from energetic nutriton about DIM and they told me that it will actually bind to shbg and reduce shbg that would be produced by the liver. So hence low 2/16ratio would caused increased shbg which is a BIG issue in my case and may be as well as many other cases.
Click to expand...

Let me get it straight.

bad--> 16 alpha-hydroxyestrone
good--> 2-hydroxyestrone

we want high 2/16 ratio

also

when 2/16 ratio is low ---> it promotes higher SHBG

so when we use DIM to increase 2/16 that should also reduce SHBG
======================================

Usually, when we age SHBG is increasing
Using DIM increases 2/16 ratio and lowers SHBG
both are desirable conditions.
======================================
But someone with low SHBG should be carefull when using DIM


Did I got your message?
 
MarkLA said:
I know we can estimate free T using Total T and SHBG: Invalid Link Removed

I looked but could not find a similar calculator for free E2. I don't see why it's not possible as it is the same concept. I also wonder whether the same calculator might already figure free E2. The only difference between T and E2 is one carbon, perhaps it binds in the same way?
Click to expand...

It is often said here that SHBG preferentially binds with T over E2. I don't have an opinion on this, but if it is correct, then given equimolar amounts of T and E2, a given quantity of SHBG would bind a greater number of T molecules than it would E2 molecules.

Looking at it another way, you could say that there is a greater probability that a single molecule of SHBG will bind one or more T molecules than that it will bind one or more E2 molecules.

Of course this is a simplisticmodel because it ignores a lot of other stuff that needs to be considered. For example, are there conditions that would favor E2 binding over T binding?


Also, a lot of algorithms that predict free T may not be accurate because older ones assume that SHBG has a single binding site. There is new evidence that SHBG actually has two binding sites. JanZ has a lot to say about this.

This raises some questions that may be more interesting than useful - Could one of the binding sites bind a T molecule and the other site bind an E2 molecule? Would it affect the affinity of the remaining binding site? Would steric interactions or hydrogen bonding between the bound molecules influence the type of molecule being bound?
 
MarkLA said:
I know we can estimate free T using Total T and SHBG: Invalid Link Removed

I looked but could not find a similar calculator for free E2. I don't see why it's not possible as it is the same concept. I also wonder whether the same calculator might already figure free E2. The only difference between T and E2 is one carbon, perhaps it binds in the same way?
Click to expand...

From my observations it looks that the
Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator,
the Bioavailable part,
is totally out and erratic when comparing to blood tests from Quest. I did little study on BioT on separate thread, that I can't locate now.

The FreeT part is rather accurate (stable may be better word) and it follows
dr Shippen's chart
both are over estimating available FreeT from Quest.


I compared my lattest blood test from Quest to chart and calculator on my post #62
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13-3.html

Blood test FreeT=248.5
chart FreeT=325
calculator FreeT=343

343/248.5=1.4

I feel the best is to do the test at Quest.

Second best would be to use chart or calculator but
keep in mind that actuall FreeT may be over-estimated by 40%.

There is no way to tell where is BAT with out actual testing.
 
cpeil2 said:
This raises some questions that may be more interesting than useful - Could one of the binding sites bind a T molecule and the other site bind an E2 molecule? Would it affect the affinity of the remaining binding site? Would steric interactions or hydrogen bonding between the bound molecules influence the type of molecule being bound?
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. It's clear now that the calculator is more of a curiosity than a tool you can rely on for diagnostics.

JanSz said:
Second best would be to use chart or calculator but keep in mind that actuall FreeT may be over-estimated by 40%.

There is no way to tell where is BAT with out actual testing.
Click to expand...

Agreed. 40% is way too high of a variance.

Thanks,

Mark
 
Ok I just got lab results back I still can not put the pieces together although my insulin sensitivity may hold the key to lower shbg.

TT - 924
E2- 28
shbg - 42

Ok from this Obviously 600 mgs of DIM was holding e2 in check, but on the other hand it may have been increasing the shbg. Ok to lower shbg - increase insulin levels, eat more caloires (protien and carbs), gh, avenia stevia, nettles.

Now since e2 is 28 and shbg 42 this could present a slight estrogen defieincy since alot of it is being binded along with testoserone. Now we got e2 pretty much stabilized with DIM or other possibility would be I have been shooting into my shoulders vs quads because of less fat,

I will continue shootin in my shoulders - to rule out that variable
Keep DIm going - 400 mgs vs 600 mgs
reduce shbg- increasing insulin levels more caloires and carbo hydrates, may be added in stinging nettles 300 mgs x 3 (does any one know of stanaardized version of this)
 
hardasnails1973 said:
Ok I just got lab results back I still can not put the pieces together although my insulin sensitivity may hold the key to lower shbg.

TT - 924
E2- 28
shbg - 42

Ok from this Obviously 600 mgs of DIM was holding e2 in check, but on the other hand it may have been increasing the shbg. Ok to lower shbg - increase insulin levels, eat more caloires (protien and carbs), gh, avenia stevia, nettles.

Now since e2 is 28 and shbg 42 this could present a slight estrogen defieincy since alot of it is being binded along with testoserone. Now we got e2 pretty much stabilized with DIM or other possibility would be I have been shooting into my shoulders vs quads because of less fat,

I will continue shootin in my shoulders - to rule out that variable
Keep DIm going - 400 mgs vs 600 mgs
reduce shbg- increasing insulin levels more caloires and carbo hydrates, may be added in stinging nettles 300 mgs x 3 (does any one know of stanaardized version of this)
Click to expand...

TT - 924
shbg - 42

Requires TT-1350
to get
FreeT~300

to get TT~1350
requires

200mg/week Depo-testosterone

use e3d schedule

200/7*3/200=0.43cc=43units on insuline syringe
I would use 500iu Novarel on the day of the shot.
If you want to be of totally theoretical, use hcg day before T.

The above dose is high but may not be enough.
On my last test the dr Shippen chart lags blood test by 40%
So do not be surprised if you will need more than 200mg/week of T.
OTOH, this level of Test may suppress somewhat your SHBG.
Only test will tell.
But feel free to use up to about 250mg/week, on divided (E3D) schedule.

do at least these tests within 6 weeks on new schedule;

T3 Free
T4,Free
Estradiol, Free, LC/MS/MS (36169X)
Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)

consider adding these (unless you have recent results:

Estrogens, Fractionated, LC/MS/MS (36742X)
Estrogen, Total, Serum (439X)
Dihydrotestosterone, Free, Serum (36168X)

well also:

DHEA sulfate
Prolactin
Progesterone, LC/MS/MS
Pregnenolone
==============================================

HAN;
question

From my last Aug30 blood test I have all those estrogens tested as I advised you (above).

Next week I am going to get results from Estroessence,
urine tests from Genova.

I am sure I will se some puzzle that will ned to be reconciled.

What would be the right approach to look at these two tests side by side.???
=======================================================================
Note;
from some recent posts I see that dr Shippen may not wait the usual 6 weeks from change of schedule to new blood twst.
I would say that my study, post #22
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/66268-jans-bloodtest-april13.html
supports that way.
Specially if one would use accelerated schedule on first couple days.

Invalid Link Removed

I am saying that because your estrodial status is up in the air and needs to be under control ASAP.
You need good E2 test and FreeE2 (test as above) to figure out where you are.
Accelerate your T dose (per chart post #22)
test after 4 weeks.

Day#1--use 2.5 dose
Day#2 --use one dose
Day#3 -- no shots
Day#4 -- use 1 dose
continue E3D schedule
 
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