6-bromodione and PCT (legit concerns)

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Patrick Arnold

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here i am causing trouble again.

anyway,





halogens are a row of elements that have very similar chemical behaviour. they inlcude fluorine, chlorine, and bromine

the thing is, 6alpha fluoro testosterone has 1-2 times the anabolic activity of regular testosterone. and 6alpha chloro test has up to 2.8 times the anabolic activity of testosterone. it is expected that 6alpha bromo testosterone (what 6-alpha bromo androstenedione turns into) would be similarly potent as an anabolic hormone. i cannot find data on this compound specifically but i know that in other positions in the steroid, a bromo substitution usually is equivalent to what is seen with a fluoro (both being somewhat weaker than a chloro)

the 6beta fluoro and chloro have only about 20-25% anabolic activity of the 6alphas.


i am reasonably sure that the 6-bromodione avaialble from china is a mixture of alpha and beta isomers. too expensive to seperate


bottom line, there is reason to be concerned about the wisdom of taking a 6-bromo product for PCT. at least one of the isomers likely converts into a potent anabolic steroid. this would make it suppressive enough to render insignificant any HPTA stimulating action acheived via its aromatase inhibitory potential
 
rpen22

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So if it is a mixture of isomers, it is still a concern even if the ratio is in favor of the beta isomer?
 
thesinner

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Do we know its affinity for converting into this active versus it's aromatase activity?

I certainly don't doubt it's a mixture of alpha and beta isomers. But do we have any idea as to how they were prepared (more specifically, is it going to be a racemic mixture?)?
 
sfearl1

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'aharmgh'...[chokes on my hdx2 on week 2 of PCT]..
 

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Do we know its affinity for converting into this active versus it's aromatase activity?

I certainly don't doubt it's a mixture of alpha and beta isomers. But do we have any idea as to how they were prepared (more specifically, is it going to be a racemic mixture?)?
In that case, how can the manufacture make such bold claims on 6-bromo?
 

aleemdj2005

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This is interesting, I know AX uses 6bromo in advanced PCT. Would be nice to get some cold hard facts on all of this :afro:
 
Patrick Arnold

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In that case, how can the manufacture make such bold claims on 6-bromo?

lots of people learn a little bit about steroids and then go out and find something and sell it thinking they are so clever

but they don't do their homework or think of everything. To me, selling an androstenedione derivative for anti-aromatase and neglecting to examine its possible active sex hormone potential is plain stupid

y'know what they say - a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous

or something
 
Vitruvian

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PA,
You ever chat with BoBo about getting a subsection?
 

Boris

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To me, selling an androstenedione derivative for anti-aromatase and neglecting to examine its possible active sex hormone potential is plain stupid
Or perhaps not so stupid - such a product would give superior short term results to one without the active hormone potential? So people will buy it, do their logs, and say "this product works great!". Most logs stop when the person stops using the product, or shortly afterwards, so we don't see what happens after 1-2 months of no supplementation, indeed by then the user has probably moved on to the next "all natural, no side effects" wonder supplement.
 

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lots of people learn a little bit about steroids and then go out and find something and sell it thinking they are so clever

but they don't do their homework or think of everything. To me, selling an androstenedione derivative for anti-aromatase and neglecting to examine its possible active sex hormone potential is plain stupid

y'know what they say - a little bit of knowledge can be dangerous

or something
You should talk with my friend Cy Wilson on steroid chemistry, and I should record it and than sale the transcript on a pay per view:thumbsup:
 
V00D00

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here i am causing trouble again.

anyway,





halogens are a row of elements that have very similar chemical behaviour. they inlcude fluorine, chlorine, and bromine

the thing is, 6alpha fluoro testosterone has 1-2 times the anabolic activity of regular testosterone. and 6alpha chloro test has up to 2.8 times the anabolic activity of testosterone. it is expected that 6alpha bromo testosterone (what 6-alpha bromo androstenedione turns into) would be similarly potent as an anabolic hormone. i cannot find data on this compound specifically but i know that in other positions in the steroid, a bromo substitution usually is equivalent to what is seen with a fluoro (both being somewhat weaker than a chloro)

the 6beta fluoro and chloro have only about 20-25% anabolic activity of the 6alphas.


i am reasonably sure that the 6-bromodione avaialble from china is a mixture of alpha and beta isomers. too expensive to seperate


bottom line, there is reason to be concerned about the wisdom of taking a 6-bromo product for post cycle therapy. at least one of the isomers likely converts into a potent anabolic steroid. this would make it suppressive enough to render insignificant any HPTA stimulating action acheived via its aromatase inhibitory potential
I will produce bloodwork around the 10th of july to put your mind at ease. ;)
 
xjsynx

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You should talk with my friend Cy Wilson on steroid chemistry, and I should record it and than sale the transcript on a pay per view:thumbsup:
I remember a few interviews PA did for t-mag...
 

Grant

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Oh damnit PA..... hahaha, why cant you just let me get through my PCT with a sense of false security :D
 

Hyde12

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This worries me because I'm just starting my log with Cissus-Drol (Hyperdrol clone)!
 

Jstrong20

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Do you feel atd to be better? It seems to work better for me anyway. Another thing I noticed that work for me was formestane even though it is supposed to be suppressive. I have no blood test to back it up but while on formestane My nuts did come back to size and I didn' t really lose much after stopping it. I was actually thinking of giving 6 oxo extreme a run for this pct.
 
sfearl1

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Do you feel atd to be better? It seems to work better for me anyway. Another thing I noticed that work for me was formestane even though it is supposed to be suppressive. I have no blood test to back it up but while on formestane My nuts did come back to size and I didn' t really lose much after stopping it. I was actually thinking of giving 6 oxo extreme a run for this post cycle therapy.
the point isn't whats better and whats not, its if 6-bromo contains an isomer that is in itself an active steroid. i think...? is this correct?
 
rpen22

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the point isn't whats better and whats not, its if 6-bromo contains an isomer that is in itself an active steroid. i think...? is this correct?
He's saying that the alpha isomer may convert into an anabolic steroid.
 

Jstrong20

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the point isn't whats better and whats not, its if 6-bromo contains an isomer that is in itself an active steroid. i think...? is this correct?
yeah I get what he is saying. Formestane is supposed to be a weak steroid also but I seem to recover while using it. I guess the part on what he feels is better was somewhat off topic. Actually it was totally of topic and I just slipped it in their cause I like to prod the man for info when he posts.lol
 
ryansm

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AHHH this is what was so great about Ana'Minds back in the old days. Glad you are posting over here again PA, and adding to the quality discussions.

When 6-bromo was first mentioned on here, this question, and concern, was presented. I don't remember the answer, or if it was resolved for that matter, but apparently of the two isomers only one was utilized because it was better suited for the intended action of reducing estrogen.

From what you have stated both isomers have anabolic activity which makes the whole point mentioned above moot.

Now I can't recall what exactly was discussed or mentioned, but you should be able to locate the thread in the DS forum as they were the ones to first introduce using it as an AI.

DS did make sure to note that they only use one of the isomers, and do not use a mix of both.

here i am causing trouble again.

anyway,





halogens are a row of elements that have very similar chemical behaviour. they inlcude fluorine, chlorine, and bromine

the thing is, 6alpha fluoro testosterone has 1-2 times the anabolic activity of regular testosterone. and 6alpha chloro test has up to 2.8 times the anabolic activity of testosterone. it is expected that 6alpha bromo testosterone (what 6-alpha bromo androstenedione turns into) would be similarly potent as an anabolic hormone. i cannot find data on this compound specifically but i know that in other positions in the steroid, a bromo substitution usually is equivalent to what is seen with a fluoro (both being somewhat weaker than a chloro)

the 6beta fluoro and chloro have only about 20-25% anabolic activity of the 6alphas.


i am reasonably sure that the 6-bromodione avaialble from china is a mixture of alpha and beta isomers. too expensive to seperate


bottom line, there is reason to be concerned about the wisdom of taking a 6-bromo product for post cycle therapy. at least one of the isomers likely converts into a potent anabolic steroid. this would make it suppressive enough to render insignificant any HPTA stimulating action acheived via its aromatase inhibitory potential
 
rpen22

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DS did make sure to note that they only use one of the isomers, and do not use a mix of both.
At M&M, Sledge said they were never able to isolate the specific isomer which he wanted.

I do remember reading Dr.D state that with Hyperdrol, they were able to get a more favorable ratio of the two isomers than was achieved with RR, I believe.
 
jmh80

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Hmmmm.


If true - I've used pro-hormones a HELLUVA lot more than the 3 times I quote.

Hell - I'm on right now if true (Hyperdrol).



My question is - why would Rebound Reloaded/Hyperdrol give such a noticeable response in increased testicular size if it converted to a hormone?
Not sure I've heard of a hormone increasing nut size??

I know I wasn't the only person that reported that on RR. Not as sure on HD - but I'm seeing it again now.
 
rxp1997

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Bump, very interested. had just posted to the "atd inverse serm" thread asking if 6Bromo was acceptable ATD substitute due to suicide isomer, had no idea the potential for conversion existed there.
 
ryansm

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Oh my bad

I thought I read that they were able to isolate the isomers, and used the more adequate one? Man I need to go over that again. (and no I am not confusing it with DMT)
Well either way the thread did state that there is a more favorable isomer. If that is the case then one could assume that the various 6-bromo products are not sourced at the same place as AX's source. Which would lead to speculation that some of the products may be of an inferior ratio of the isomers. Which makes me think of all kinds of concerning possibilities. (not stating any conspiracy, finger pointing, or trying to drag companies into this thread with negative connotations. I am simply thinking allowed.

Well if Matt posted that then PA and those that have questioned 6-bromo in the past have serious concerns.
 
ryansm

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My question is - why would Rebound Reloaded/Hyperdrol give such a noticeable response in increased testicular size if it converted to a hormone?
Not sure I've heard of a hormone increasing nut size??
Well if the ratio in RR consisted of the favorable isomer and the ability of 6-bromo to inhibit estrogen, which it does, and being that its the stronger ability. I guess as long as the suppression of its anabolic activity is very weak, then it could help with recovery. This brings up the whole 4-oh and low dose anabolic steroids used during post cycle therapy. Damnit I don't know, I am off to find that old thread.:think:

Doesn't RR have white button mushroom extract? And isn't it purported to be an AI?? Or am I way off here

And which of the isomers is the more favorable one? I would assume the Beta since it has less, although not apparantly known, anabolic activity??
 
jmh80

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Ryan,
Yes - it has white button mushroom extract.
 
addijhaq

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6-bromo has been banned by the NCAA.

I found a pdf somewhere released by the NCAA explaining something very similar to what PA has alluded to.


the reason it's banned is not due to it's negative feedback potentials, but its direct conversion into.. well you kno.


ps. the main ingredient in BAM and MFX were included in there too, for the same reason as 6-bromo, fyi.
 
Vitruvian

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AM.com needs a sticky with substances banned by various organizations ;)
 

WheyGood

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Subscribed.

PA, I am really glad that you are back here -- contributions like this thread are very worthwhile. :thumbsup:
 

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Reading the questions raised by Kneller in the bb.com thread (2 years ago) they seem just about identical to what PA is saying.

Dr. D of course refutes it, but with little to no real logic.

I'd sure like to see a PA and Dr. D debate on this subject.
 

jasonschaffin

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6-bromo has been banned by the NCAA.

I found a pdf somewhere released by the NCAA explaining something very similar to what PA has alluded to.


the reason it's banned is not due to it's negative feedback potentials, but its direct conversion into.. well you kno.


ps. the main ingredient in BAM and MFX were included in there too, for the same reason as 6-bromo, fyi.
PA after we get this whole 6-Bromo thing figured out, what are your thoughts on the spirostanes in BAM and MFX?
I also think you should get yourself and Ergo a subforum!
Gonna go look now for RR bloodwork...
 
rxp1997

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could there be a discrepancy between what organic chem says should happen and what really does happen?

Maybe it does happen, as 6Bromo has become a very popular AI as part of off-cycle test-boosting stacks and part of that boost could be from the steroidal conversion, havent seen that many people logs its use it as part of their post-cycle therapy.

That also doesn't leave many products in the AI arena if you are looking for something that doesn't convert. Even gaspari made claims in Novedex XT literature that 6-oxo converted to estrogen (6-keto-estrone and 6-keto-estradiol), but that didn't dampen the popularity of 6-oxo.
 
xjsynx

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Maybe it does happen, as 6Bromo has become a very popular AI as part of off-cycle test-boosting stacks and part of that boost could be from the steroidal conversion, havent seen that many people logs its use it as part of their post-cycle therapy.
I am/was planning on usin AX's aPCT as part as my PCT, and it contains 6-bromo.
 
rxp1997

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i had bought it too hoping to avoid/replace ATD in my PCT, even emailed ax customer support to see how much of each isomer made up the 25mg of 6Bromo but I never heard back. I will probably save it and run it as part of test stack, maybe with ActivaTe and/or MassFX.
 
AnonyMoose

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i would like to know - i am using it now pct along with mass fx.
 
TeamSavage

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PA - Threads like this illustrate why I hope you'll stick around.

Maybe this helps explain why 6-Bromo doesn't hurt or even helps libido while ATD seems to kill it at higher doses... that never really made sense to me. If 6-Bromo is effectively lowering estrogen then the libido effects should be similar... unless it is converting into an androgen as well.
 
Mass_69

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Maybe this helps explain why 6-Bromo doesn't hurt or even helps libido while ATD seems to kill it at higher doses... that never really made sense to me. If 6-Bromo is effectively lowering estrogen then the libido effects should be similar... unless it is converting into an androgen as well.
Part of ATD's libido lowering effect is thought to be from its binding (essentially blocking) to androgen receptors in the brain, either the hypothalamus or pituitary, I forgot which and am too lazy to search for it.
 
TeamSavage

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Part of ATD's libido lowering effect is thought to be from its binding (essentially blocking) to androgen receptors in the brain, either the hypothalamus or pituitary, I forgot which and am too lazy to search for it.
Interesting, thanks... I'll look into that.
 
Outside Backer

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while this thread is very interesting, Im curious as well

I ran 3-ad and it wasnt for me ( i posted a feedback thread on it)

I ran aPCT afterwards ( didnt really feel like i need to) and the results were better for me then 3-ad. Granted they are designed for 2 diff things apct really was a fantastic product for me in the labido department as well as I actually gained strength on the run. Ive been so damn busy i havent put up my 30 day apct review but none the less it was a great product as was hyperdrol when i ran it 1 yr ago
 
thesinner

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If the alpha isomer has the potential to be so potent, I'm surprised nobody has attempted to market it as a prohormone, yet.
 
xjsynx

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If the alpha isomer has the potential to be so potent, I'm surprised nobody has attempted to market it as a prohormone, yet.
Something like this:

6-Bromodione - The Ultimate Mass Building Agent! Hyperdrol X2™ is virtually guaranteed to pack on jaw dropping Lean Mass Gains with its powerful new mass building agent 6-Bromodione. Hyperdrol X2™ gives you what you need to respond to your workouts in a way you have only dreamed. Instantly testosterone rises and estrogen drops putting your body in a highly pro-anabolic state. Fat will melt away and be replaced with lean hard muscle and you experience the most mind-blowing extreme workouts ever. Trust the people at Anabolic Xtreme to provide you with the best legal pro-anabolic products on the market today.
 
jmh80

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Only finding RR bloodwork w/Activate
I have bloodwork on the beta Activate only - and Rebound Reloaded with beta Activate.

I'd imagine one could surmise the effect of RR by looking the differences in the bloodwork posted for both logs I ran for DS.
 
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