6-bromodione and PCT (legit concerns)

[Patrick Arnold]

I pop like 40 percocets as soon as i get out of bed and down a case of beer by 9 am.
Is this unhealthy for me?

careful cause thats suppressive

you gonna need some PCT

 

[xjsynx]

sometimes people misinterpret proper grammar and intelligent writing as condescendion

these are usually the same people that take pride in "keeping it real!"

Hey I like your condescending arrogance...and your last sentence can be considered condescending

 

[Viperspit]

sometimes people misinterpret proper grammar and intelligent writing as condescendion

these are usually the same people that take pride in "keeping it real!"

Condescension

For the record, I don't think you mean to be condescending, I think it's more sarcasm.

 

[bitterplacebo]

thanks

No one likes having past mistakes and poor decisions brought back in their face for persuasive purposes.

you missed the part of the study which stated which hormones (androgens) they were looking for. they were not looking for 4-hydroxytestosterone (which is what you apparently are thinking here)

yeah, I didn't think it would have been as simple as what I was thinking

careful cause thats suppressive

That's an interesting word choice for describing the situation.

For the record, I don't think you mean to be condescending, I think it's more sarcasm.

To me, it's more like self-conceit.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Condescension

For the record, I don't think you mean to be condescending, I think it's more sarcasm.

thanks

some gets it, some don'ts

 

[FitnFirm]

Brainwashing at its finest

 

[FitnFirm]

Can anyone get the full articles where these are discussed in more detail ???




6-OXO converts to many things. One thing it can convert to is 6-keto estrone, which is an inactive estrogen.

it is said that 3,6,17-AT converts to 6=O and 6-OH estrone and 6=O and 6-OH estradiol, these are estrogens.


Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

Aromatase catalyzes the conversion of androst-4-ene-3,17-dione to estrogen through sequential oxygenations at the 19-methyl group. Androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (AT) is a suicide substrate of aromatase, and the mechanism of inactivation of aromatase has been postulated to involve enzymatic oxygenation at the 19-position. [1 beta-3H,4-14C]-, [19-3H3,4-14C]-, and [1 beta-3H,19-14C]ATs, with high specific activities, were synthesized to study metabolic aspects and the inactivation mechanism. Incubation of the labeled AT with human placental microsomes yielded the 19-oxygenated derivatives, 19-hydroxy-AT and 19-oxo-AT, as well as the aromatization products, 6-oxoestrone and 6-oxoestradiol. A stereospecific 1 beta-proton elimination occurred during the aromatization of [1 beta-3H,4-14C]AT, and a marked tritium isotope effect was observed in the first hydroxylation at C-19 of [19-3H3,4-14C]AT. After incubation of the three double-labeled ATs, the solubilized proteins were subjected to SDS-PAGE and the 3H/14C ratio of the aromatase-bound metabolite in a 46-69 kDa fraction was analyzed. A marked decrease of the 3H/14C ratio of the metabolite was observed in the experiment using [19-3H3,4-14C]AT, compared with that of the labeled AT used, but there were no significant changes in the other experiments, indicating that the adduct retains the 1 beta-proton, the 19-carbon, and one of the three 19-methyl protons of AT. Thus, we conclude that further oxygenation of 19-oxo-AT produced by the two initial hydroxylations of AT at C-19 yields not only 6-oxoestrogen (by a mechanism similar to that involved in the aromatization of the natural substrate) but also a reactive electrophile that immediately binds to the active site in an irreversible manner, resulting in inactivation of aromatase.

PMID: 8129748 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum







Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

Aromatase is a cytochrome P450 enzyme complex that catalyzes the conversion of androst-4-ene-3,17-dione to estrone through three sequential oxygenations of the 19-methyl group. Androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (1) is a suicide substrate of aromatase. The inactivation mechanism for steroid 1 has been studied to show that the inactivation reaction proceeds through the 19-oxo intermediate 3. To further clarify the mechanism, 4 beta, 5 beta-epoxyandrosta-3,6,17,19-tetraone (6) was synthesized as a candidate for a reactive electrophile involved in irreversible binding to the active site of aromatase, upon treatment of compound 3 with hydrogen peroxide in the presence of NaHCO3. The epoxide 6 inhibited human placental aromatase in a competitive manner (Ki = 30 microM); moreover, it inactivated the enzyme in an active-site-directed manner in the absence of NADPH (K1 = 88 microM, kinact = 0.071 min-1). NADPH and BSA both stimulated the inactivation rate without a significant change of the K1 in either case (kinact: 0.133 or 0.091 min-1, in the presence of NADPH or BSA, respectively). The substrate androst-4-ene-3,17-dione protected the inactivation, but a nucleophile, L-cysteine, did not. When both the epoxide 6 and its 19-methyl analog 4 were subjected separately to reaction with N-acetyl-L-cysteine in the presence of NaHCO3, the 19-oxo steroid 6 disappeared from the reaction mixture more rapidly (T1/2 = 40 sec) than the 19-methyl analog 4 (T1/2 = 3.0 min). The results clearly indicate that the 4 beta, 5 beta-epoxy-19-oxo compound 6, which is possibly produced from 19-oxo-4-ene steroid 3 through the 19-hydroxy-19-hydroperoxide intermediate, is a reactive electrophile that irreversibly binds to the active site of aromatase.

PMID: 8937433 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum


Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

To gain insight into the aromatization sequence of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (1), a suicide substrate of aromatase, the aromatization of its 19-hydroxy and 19-oxo analogs 2 and 3 with human placental microsomes, was studied using GC-MS. Steroids 2 and 3 were separately incubated with the microsomes in the presence of NADPH in air. The GC-MS analysis of the trimethylsilyl derivative of the aromatization product indicated that both the 19-oxygenated steroids 2 and 3 were aromatized to yield 6-oxoestrogens, 6-oxoestrone (4) and 6-oxoestradiol (5), in each experiment. The aromatization rates of substrates 2 and 3 were 605+/-48 and 1794+/-75 pmol/mg protein/10 min, respectively. These relatively higher rates, compared to that of the parent steroid 1 (73.2+/-6.6 pmol/mg protein/10 min), indicates that the suicide substrate 1 is aromatized through the 19-oxygenated intermediates 2 and 3.

PMID: 9556162 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum


Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

19-Nor (2) and 5 alpha-reduced (3) derivatives of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (1) as well as 5 alpha-androstan-17-ones 4-6 were tested for their abilities to inhibit aromatase in human placental microsomes. All the steroids except 5 alpha-6-one 4 were fair to good competitive inhibitors of the enzyme, with apparent Ki's ranging from 50 to 820 nM in which 5 alpha-3-one 5 was the most potent among them. The inhibitory activities of the 19-nor and 5 alpha-reduced derivatives (2 and 3) were less potent than that of the parent compound 1. Inhibitor 2 caused a time-dependent, pseudo-first-order inactivation of aromatase activity with a rate constant for inactivation of 0.148 min-1 in the presence of NADPH in air. The substrate androstenedione prevented the inactivation and L-cysteine did not protect aromatase from the inactivation.

PMID: 7655426 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Brainwashing at its finest

Me? Brainwashing?

ALRI ads are nothing BUT brainwashing. A pseudo-techno run around lacking in substance and fat with hyperbole. Result is you brainwash people to buy things without them even realizing what the hell it is they are buying (until someone like me slaps some life into them)

Look at my ads. Look at my website www.ergopharm.com

What you see there is fact, straightforward descriptions, and realistic promises. Brainwashing my ass!


You my dear, must be severely brainwashed because i have a sense that you really are not the retard that you seem to be sometimes

 

[FitnFirm]

Me? Brainwashing?

ALRI ads are nothing BUT brainwashing. A pseudo-techno run around lacking in substance and fat with hyperbole. Result is you brainwash people to buy things without them even realizing what the hell it is they are buying (until someone like me slaps some life into them)

Look at my ads. Look at my website www.ergopharm.com

What you see there is fact, straightforward descriptions, and realistic promises. Brainwashing my ass!


You my dear, must be severely brainwashed because i have a sense that you really are not the retard that you seem to be sometimes

I will always love you no matter what you say ! :lol:

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Can anyone get the full articles where these are discussed in more detail ???




6-OXO converts to many things. One thing it can convert to is 6-keto estrone, which is an inactive estrogen.

it is said that 3,6,17-AT converts to 6=O and 6-OH estrone and 6=O and 6-OH estradiol, these are estrogens.


Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

Aromatase catalyzes the conversion of androst-4-ene-3,17-dione to estrogen through sequential oxygenations at the 19-methyl group. Androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (AT) is a suicide substrate of aromatase, and the mechanism of inactivation of aromatase has been postulated to involve enzymatic oxygenation at the 19-position. [1 beta-3H,4-14C]-, [19-3H3,4-14C]-, and [1 beta-3H,19-14C]ATs, with high specific activities, were synthesized to study metabolic aspects and the inactivation mechanism. Incubation of the labeled AT with human placental microsomes yielded the 19-oxygenated derivatives, 19-hydroxy-AT and 19-oxo-AT, as well as the aromatization products, 6-oxoestrone and 6-oxoestradiol. A stereospecific 1 beta-proton elimination occurred during the aromatization of [1 beta-3H,4-14C]AT, and a marked tritium isotope effect was observed in the first hydroxylation at C-19 of [19-3H3,4-14C]AT. After incubation of the three double-labeled ATs, the solubilized proteins were subjected to SDS-PAGE and the 3H/14C ratio of the aromatase-bound metabolite in a 46-69 kDa fraction was analyzed. A marked decrease of the 3H/14C ratio of the metabolite was observed in the experiment using [19-3H3,4-14C]AT, compared with that of the labeled AT used, but there were no significant changes in the other experiments, indicating that the adduct retains the 1 beta-proton, the 19-carbon, and one of the three 19-methyl protons of AT. Thus, we conclude that further oxygenation of 19-oxo-AT produced by the two initial hydroxylations of AT at C-19 yields not only 6-oxoestrogen (by a mechanism similar to that involved in the aromatization of the natural substrate) but also a reactive electrophile that immediately binds to the active site in an irreversible manner, resulting in inactivation of aromatase.

PMID: 8129748 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum







Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

Aromatase is a cytochrome P450 enzyme complex that catalyzes the conversion of androst-4-ene-3,17-dione to estrone through three sequential oxygenations of the 19-methyl group. Androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (1) is a suicide substrate of aromatase. The inactivation mechanism for steroid 1 has been studied to show that the inactivation reaction proceeds through the 19-oxo intermediate 3. To further clarify the mechanism, 4 beta, 5 beta-epoxyandrosta-3,6,17,19-tetraone (6) was synthesized as a candidate for a reactive electrophile involved in irreversible binding to the active site of aromatase, upon treatment of compound 3 with hydrogen peroxide in the presence of NaHCO3. The epoxide 6 inhibited human placental aromatase in a competitive manner (Ki = 30 microM); moreover, it inactivated the enzyme in an active-site-directed manner in the absence of NADPH (K1 = 88 microM, kinact = 0.071 min-1). NADPH and BSA both stimulated the inactivation rate without a significant change of the K1 in either case (kinact: 0.133 or 0.091 min-1, in the presence of NADPH or BSA, respectively). The substrate androst-4-ene-3,17-dione protected the inactivation, but a nucleophile, L-cysteine, did not. When both the epoxide 6 and its 19-methyl analog 4 were subjected separately to reaction with N-acetyl-L-cysteine in the presence of NaHCO3, the 19-oxo steroid 6 disappeared from the reaction mixture more rapidly (T1/2 = 40 sec) than the 19-methyl analog 4 (T1/2 = 3.0 min). The results clearly indicate that the 4 beta, 5 beta-epoxy-19-oxo compound 6, which is possibly produced from 19-oxo-4-ene steroid 3 through the 19-hydroxy-19-hydroperoxide intermediate, is a reactive electrophile that irreversibly binds to the active site of aromatase.

PMID: 8937433 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum


Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

To gain insight into the aromatization sequence of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (1), a suicide substrate of aromatase, the aromatization of its 19-hydroxy and 19-oxo analogs 2 and 3 with human placental microsomes, was studied using GC-MS. Steroids 2 and 3 were separately incubated with the microsomes in the presence of NADPH in air. The GC-MS analysis of the trimethylsilyl derivative of the aromatization product indicated that both the 19-oxygenated steroids 2 and 3 were aromatized to yield 6-oxoestrogens, 6-oxoestrone (4) and 6-oxoestradiol (5), in each experiment. The aromatization rates of substrates 2 and 3 were 605+/-48 and 1794+/-75 pmol/mg protein/10 min, respectively. These relatively higher rates, compared to that of the parent steroid 1 (73.2+/-6.6 pmol/mg protein/10 min), indicates that the suicide substrate 1 is aromatized through the 19-oxygenated intermediates 2 and 3.

PMID: 9556162 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum


Tohoku College of Pharmacy, Sendai, Japan.

19-Nor (2) and 5 alpha-reduced (3) derivatives of androst-4-ene-3,6,17-trione (1) as well as 5 alpha-androstan-17-ones 4-6 were tested for their abilities to inhibit aromatase in human placental microsomes. All the steroids except 5 alpha-6-one 4 were fair to good competitive inhibitors of the enzyme, with apparent Ki's ranging from 50 to 820 nM in which 5 alpha-3-one 5 was the most potent among them. The inhibitory activities of the 19-nor and 5 alpha-reduced derivatives (2 and 3) were less potent than that of the parent compound 1. Inhibitor 2 caused a time-dependent, pseudo-first-order inactivation of aromatase activity with a rate constant for inactivation of 0.148 min-1 in the presence of NADPH in air. The substrate androstenedione prevented the inactivation and L-cysteine did not protect aromatase from the inactivation.

PMID: 7655426 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

Kathy,

What these studies show is that 6-oxo estrogens are formed from 6-oxo as part of its interaction with the aromatase enzyme.

there is not a single thing in these studies that looks at the estrogenic activity of the 6-oxoestrogens. For example - receptor binding affinity, or biological response to in-vivo administration.

the bottom line is, we know that 6-oxo androgens (6-oxo-androstenedione and 6-oxo-testosterone) are not active androgens. We also know that administration of 6-oxo causes an increase in testosterone in males. We can make a fair assumption that the 6-oxo estrogens are either inactive or weakly active, because if they were active estrogens we would not be observing the HPTA upregulation and increased serum testosterone.

I hope you read this and understand and stop being such a b*tch

 

[FrankJ]

Well a handful of people posted blood tests with Rebound Reloaded and Activate stack, they had significantly higher test and free test scores. I think HX2 and MassFX is pretty much the same stuff, or maybe different/better concentrations. I wish we saw some blood work on it specifically but I would say that the preponderance of the evidence suggests 6-bromo is good for your HPTA not suppressive.

Pat, I challenge you to find users who had lower test scores and have them post up, otherwise its rather hard to believe you. Sure, in a lab the chemical can potentially convert to this or that, but in the human body it appears to be mainly an anti-estrogen and raises test levels, again based on the evidence of the blood tests.

Im sure you are a kick ass steroidal chemist, but show me the money! Show us some proof users got suppressed HPTA!

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I will always love you no matter what you say ! :lol:

well you insult my integrity Kathy and that means more to me than just about anything

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Well a handful of people posted blood tests with Rebound Reloaded and Activate stack, they had significantly higher test and free test scores. I think HX2 and MassFX is pretty much the same stuff, or maybe different/better concentrations. I wish we saw some blood work on it specifically but I would say that the preponderance of the evidence suggests 6-bromo is good for your HPTA not suppressive.

Pat, I challenge you to find users who had lower test scores and have them post up, otherwise its rather hard to believe you. Sure, in a lab the chemical can potentially convert to this or that, but in the human body it appears to be mainly an anti-estrogen and raises test levels, again based on the evidence of the blood tests.

Im sure you are a kick ass steroidal chemist, but show me the money! Show us some proof users got suppressed HPTA!

I am sorry but you telling me that some strangers posted some numbers on the net is not convincing proof.

if you are that naive and/or gullible than i feel sorry for you

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Im sure you are a kick ass steroidal chemist, but show me the money! Show us some proof users got suppressed HPTA!

If it is like formestane, than it should be neither suppressive nor stimulatory to the HPTA

 

[FitnFirm]

well you insult my integrity Kathy and that means more to me than just about anything

Im just trying to learn Pat, like many others thats all. We all know estrogen is the devil Testosterone ---->:duel: <---- Estrogen . I just wish I could get the whole articles because Im sure it is very interesting. You can get them right ? Can you share please ?? :head:

 

[raptor2003]

fitnfirm, no offense, but you better quote some solid reference which you UNDERSTAND, if you want PA to discuss, or else PA being an organic chemist will eat you raw :food:

 

[raptor2003]

Im just trying to learn Pat, like many others thats all. We all know estrogen is the devil Testosterone ---->:duel: <---- Estrogen . I just wish I could get the whole articles because Im sure it is very interesting. You can get them right ? Can you share please ?? :head:

aren't you female? :yawn:

 

[Zombie]

come on patrick your better than that . . . are you ? ? theres no need to call her retard or b1tch.

 

[Hyde12]

PA are there any new supps. that you are working on? I would love to see an AMP 2 or maybe even a new pro-hormone like the ones that worked so well back in the day. I loved clear shot by the way. I've never had so much energy in my life!

 

[FitnFirm]

fitnfirm, no offense, but you better quote some solid reference which you UNDERSTAND, if you want PA to discuss, or else PA being an organic chemist will eat you raw :food:

Blow me ?? Im a hungry girl :food: too

 

[FitnFirm]

PA are there any new supps. that you are working on? I would love to see an AMP 2 or maybe even a new pro-hormone like the ones that worked so well back in the day. I loved clear shot by the way. I've never had so much energy in my life!

Ya for sure Clear Shot is the bomb :head: too bad Pat doesnt love me enough to send me any :hammer:

 

[xjsynx]

I loved clear shot by the way. I've never had so much energy in my life!

Lucky guy. I felt energy from the AMP sample pack, but when I bought it, nothing.

I tried Clear Shot, and nothing as well. but I saved the bottle and use it for a supplement shooter.

I love GF Pro and looking forward to 6-OXO extreme.

 

[xjsynx]

Ya for sure Clear Shot is the bomb :head: too bad Pat doesnt love me enough to send me any :hammer:

I didn't like the smell or taste.

 

[Hyde12]

Ya for sure Clear Shot is the bomb :head: too bad Pat doesnt love me enough to send me any :hammer:

Yeah, my only gripe is the price, but its worth it. I downed two servings (1 bottle) of it before a run and increased my 3 mile run time by 2 minutes. IBE has an energy drink thats works well too and for a long time I'm talking like 8 hours. Does ALRI have any plans for a ready to drink energy booster. Maybe liquid Venom....Yeah that would kick A$$!

 

[Hyde12]

I didn't like the smell or taste.

Yeah, but I think thats why they made it into a shot. I tell you, I was actually euphoric while I was running like I was running on air (OK nevermind, I sould like a F****** hippie).

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Im just trying to learn Pat, like many others thats all. We all know estrogen is the devil Testosterone ---->:duel: <---- Estrogen . I just wish I could get the whole articles because Im sure it is very interesting. You can get them right ? Can you share please ?? :head:

i would have to buy them online just like you

i have one of those though.

there is nothing of much interest in those articles Kathy. All chemical mechanism stuff. I can't see how you would understand a word of it anyway, its pretty advanced material

 

[xjsynx]

Yeah, my only gripe is the price, but its worth it. I downed two servings (1 bottle) of it before a run and increased my 3 mile run time by 2 minutes. IBE has an energy drink thats works well too and for a long time I'm talking like 8 hours. Does ALRI have any plans for a ready to drink energy booster. Maybe liquid Venom....Yeah that would kick A$$!

Looks like np has Matrix in stock again, been wanting to sample it for quite some time.

A liquid venom would be sweet, but my balls didn't like venom.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

come on patrick your better than that . . . are you ? ? theres no need to call her retard or b1tch.

i never called her these things

i stopped short of that

i said stop being a *****

and i said i knew she was really is not a retard

 

[Hyde12]

Looks like np has Matrix in stock again, been wanting to sample it for quite some time.

A liquid venom would be sweet, but my balls didn't like venom.

I don't know why anyone has developed a stim with no sexual side effects................wait, they did and its called RPM!

 

[Hyde12]

I'll stop hijacking now.

 

[xjsynx]

i never called her these things

i stopped short of that

i said stop being a *****

and i said i knew she was really is not a retard

:lol:

I've used the same excuses many of times...

 

[SubliminalX]

I am sorry but you telling me that some strangers posted some numbers on the net is not convincing proof.

if you are that naive and/or gullible than i feel sorry for you

I was one of those that posted bloodwork on RR + ACT (labs are attached below).

Would 6alpha bromo testosterone be detected in a standard serum testosterone analysis? Meaning, that elevated total testosterone when taking RR is not due to increased endogenous production, rather from conversion of one of the isomers?

 

[xjsynx]

I don't know why anyone has developed a stim with no sexual side effects................wait, they did and its called RPM!

Oh there is a sexual side alright, but a good one.... :stick:

 

[FitnFirm]

I have to leave to train now, If im late my trainer will beat me BBL Kisses to all

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I was one of those that posted bloodwork on RR + ACT (labs are attached below).

Would 6alpha bromo testosterone be detected in a standard serum testosterone analysis? Meaning, that elevated total testosterone when taking RR is not due to increased endogenous production, rather from conversion of one of the isomers?

its always possible that serum 6-bromotestosterone derived from the 6-bromoandrostenedione can cross react on the immunoassay.

what does RR and activate contain?

 

[xjsynx]

its always possible that serum 6-bromotestosterone derived from the 6-bromoandrostenedione can cross react on the immunoassay.

what does RR and activate contain?

RR - White Button Mushroom Extract, Flax Seed Oil Powder, 6-Bromotase, (6-Bromo-3, 17-dioxoetlioallocholane)

Activate - Urtica Dioica 400mg (standardized to a proprietary extract between 60-95% Divanil [3,4-divanillyltertrahydrofuran])

 

[SubliminalX]

its always possible that serum 6-bromotestosterone derived from the 6-bromoandrostenedione can cross react on the immunoassay.

what does RR and activate contain?

Rebound Reloaded has 6-bromo:

http://anabolicminds.com/store/989.html

I don't work for DS so I don't know exactly the ratio of the isomers in question (that's proprietary apparently). But DS reps have claimed that the ratio is more favorable than competing products.

Activate is the Nettle Root extract with supposed SHBG binding activity to promote promote unbound testosterone.

 

[FrankJ]

if you are that naive and/or gullible than i feel sorry for you

Well, its more proof than what you are posting up - you offer only pure conjecture! And you have bias, since you sell competing products.

The guy just posted scanned in official lab test results - so far you have posted nothing.

Like I said - post up some proof! Otherwise its just theory, pure conjecture by somebody who has clear bias. Thats worth next to nothing in my mind.

 

[SubliminalX]

Well, its more proof than what you are posting up - you offer only pure conjecture! And you have bias, since you sell competing products.

The guy just posted scanned in official lab test results - so far you have posted nothing.

Like I said - post up some proof! Otherwise its just theory, pure conjecture by somebody who has clear bias. Thats worth next to nothing in my mind.

Actually, my scanned labs don't definitively distinguish whether my boost in Test/Free Test was from endogenous production or from an exogenous source. Exogenous dosing of Test can give you those results as well, assuming that the exogenous Test derivative also cross-reacts in the assay as PA said.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Rebound Reloaded has 6-bromo:

http://anabolicminds.com/store/989.html

I don't work for DS so I don't know exactly the ratio of the isomers in question (that's proprietary apparently). But DS reps have claimed that the ratio is more favorable than competing products.

Activate is the Nettle Root extract with supposed SHBG binding activity to promote promote unbound testosterone.

well this just futher confuses things now doesn't it.

btw, technically it is improper labelling not to list the isomers. but compared to other labelling improprieties out there this is relatively minor

so maybe this product has more beta?

if it does, then it really would behoove DS to reveal this fact (now that the facts are starting to become apparent to everyone)

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Activate is the Nettle Root extract with supposed SHBG binding activity to promote promote unbound testosterone.

i would love to see this theory proven or disproven in-vivo

i know its proven in-vitro but thats all thats in the literature

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Well, its more proof than what you are posting up - you offer only pure conjecture! And you have bias, since you sell competing products.

The guy just posted scanned in official lab test results - so far you have posted nothing.

Like I said - post up some proof! Otherwise its just theory, pure conjecture by somebody who has clear bias. Thats worth next to nothing in my mind.

slow down jack-o and learn to think like a scientist. we are still at the point of theory here even with those results

those lab results did not prove anything. they did complicate matters a bit more

we dunno what isomer predominates in RR. IF its beta then it is irrelevant to this argument (which is about alpha)

we dunno if or how much 6-bromotest might cross react on the serum testosterone immunoassay

we dunno if or how much the other compounds in the formulas he was taking affected his hormone levels

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Feel free to share your thoughts on Methyl-Dihydrorubrosterone, you know, if you felt that way inclined

actually i do not feel inclined

although i do have some very strong opinions on the compound from what i have read and researched

after all this "brainwash" and "bias" BS thrown at me lately i think i would like to take a break for a while though

 

[xjsynx]

actually i do not feel inclined

although i do have some very strong opinions on the compound from what i have read and researched

after all this "brainwash" and "bias" BS thrown at me lately i think i would like to take a break for a while though

:yawn:























Ok. How about now? Maybe start a new thread though...

 

[Boris]

actually i do not feel inclined

although i do have some very strong opinions on the compound from what i have read and researched

after all this "brainwash" and "bias" BS thrown at me lately i think i would like to take a break for a while though

I understand. Thanks for all the expertise you've shared recently.


MOD EDIT: Thread closed. When email addresses and probation offices are posted, its over.