6-bromodione and PCT (legit concerns)

[wojo]

exactly..with a ph u only get a % to convert..with a ps its 100 percent active..wikki defines a ph as "A prohormone is a substance that is a precursor to a hormone, usually having minimal hormonal effect by itself."

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Hey PA

What is the difference between a PH and PS? Aren't they a same thing that they convert to steroids in the liver?

when i say prohormone i refer to a steroid compound that has no intrinsinc activity and must metabolize into an active compound to exert its a/a effects

when i say prosteroid i mean a steroid compound that is intrinsically active as an a/a but is sold as a supplement

 

[Patrick Arnold]

so you're saying that a pro-steroid and a steroid is a same thing then? since both requires no conversion?

yes

i just use the term prosteroid because its been coined so much. it is really a stupid term but its recognized to mean a steroid which is active and sold as a supplement

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Prosteroid= conversion to synthetic man made steroid (Tren,dbol,deca, etc)

thats not how its used

the first use of the term "prosteroid" was with 1-test, which was an active steroid supplement

 

[wojo]

yes

i just use the term prosteroid because its been coined so much. it is really a stupid term but its recognized to mean a steroid which is active and sold as a supplement

thank you

 

[Patrick Arnold]

nope, 1-ad and 1-test are prohormones because you have 1-test in your body, you do not however have tren naturally in your body. You have to go back to the definition of a steroid.
Which is a man-made modification of a hormone.

that is not the definition of a steroid.

you are wrong on this

 

[Patrick Arnold]

exactly..with a ph u only get a % to convert..with a ps its 100 percent active.."

not to be confused with 100% bioavaialble

when it came down to it 1-ad and 1-test were pretty indistinguishable when taken orally. thats cuz liver first pass caused such rearrangment and back and forth conversion of the two that you ended up with pretty similar hormone actually making it into the system

 

[Hyde12]

that is not the definition of a steroid.

you are wrong on this

I was wrong then.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I was wrong then.

and i was right

you were wrong, and i was right.

did i mention that i was right?



-yer daddy

 

[pudzian2]

and i was right

you were wrong, and i was right.

did i mention that i was right?



-yer daddy

HAHA! I really hope this 6-bromo issue gets reviewed by the scientists and chemists formulating products with it that are designed for an increase in NATURAL TEST...and not a ph\ps-like conversion being responsible for the strength etc

 

[Hyde12]

Maybe I should stop working on my management degree and work on a degree in chemistry so that I can be super smart too......no I will never be smart, LOL.

 

[Solitude]

Now I understand..

Thank you Patrick and wojo

 

[Solitude]

Patrick

I've been re-reading the entire thread, and this statement of yours caught my eyes.

correct me if i am wrong but is one of the ingredients in restore 6alpha-bromoandrostenedione?

in that case it is a direct precursor to an androgenic-anabolic steroidal chemical

so if this 6alpha-bromoandrostenedione is a direct precursor to an aas chemical, what is the name of the steroid does it convert to?

 

[rpen22]

so if this 6alpha-bromoandrostenedione is a direct precursor to an anabolic steroids chemical, what is the name of the steroid does it convert to?

6alpha-bromotestosterone

 

[Solitude]

6alpha-bromotestosterone

Ah I see, thanks for that

I tried to google that compound, but it doesn't come up with anything... Does it have a different name for it?

Oh nevermind, I should have search 6-bromotestosterone instead..

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Patrick

I've been re-reading the entire thread, and this statement of yours caught my eyes.



so if this 6alpha-bromoandrostenedione is a direct precursor to an anabolic steroids chemical, what is the name of the steroid does it convert to?

ok that statement should not have been so definitive. i should have said "highly likely is a direct precursor"

i explained it before, maybe not in this thread. it had to do with other testosterone derivatives with atoms like bromine in the 6alpha position. they are strong AAS's.

6alpha-bromoandrostenedione is a direct precursor to 6alpha-bromotestosterone

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Ah I see, thanks for that

I tried to google that compound, but it doesn't come up with anything... Does it have a different name for it?

Oh nevermind, I should have search 6-bromotestosterone instead..

there is no data on the anabolic/androgenic activity of 6alpha-bromotest

we are only left with conjecture

 

[FitnFirm]

I just ate steroids in my beef, I wonder if I will be big soon ???

 

[Zombie]

I just ate steroids in my beef, I wonder if I will be big soon ???

SHHHHHH FnF ! ! ! PA might try to test some beef and get in a fight with some cattle rancher and screw us all with the increment on Beef prices cause it has steroids in it or maybe get beef banned by the FDA

 

[wojo]

wonder how many of you know how 1,4 ad was proven to be naturally occuring? lol just thought of this because of all the talk of beef

personally i appreciate pa stirring the pot

 

[T-Bone]

This is way off topic, but isn't there some kind of steroid or ph that comes from some kind of s h i t?. Some animal poop or something?

 

[Zombie]

This is way off topic, but isn't there some kind of steroid or ph that comes from some kind of s h i t?. Some animal poop or something?

DMT in elephant pee ? ? i dont recall but i think this is one

 

[northern]

I just ate steroids in my beef, I wonder if I will be big soon ???

Fit,

I used to think you were a pretty smart person but after reading through this you have given me little to base that belief on.

Look PA is not stating it that it will turn into a steroid. There are lots of steroids like androgens, oestrogens, adrenocortical hormones, cardiotonic glycosies and aglycones. These are all steroids and there are many more.

What I am trying to say is that if your product does what it does why dont you show us. SO far you have only stated that PA is a competitor and would love nothing more than to see this be true. Okay, show us that it is not. SO far you have not done that you have only said "people say it works" great that solves the problem for me.

I have not a problem with AAS usage. I think it would be very cool to find that high doses of 6-alpha bromo were infact able to promote anabolism. However what does bother me is the ambiguous nature with which companies release stuff. I may be completely wrong but I would relaly appreciate you showing me that this compound is not able to suppress the HPTA rather than give out free samples.

Understand that I am not trying to say your product sucks hell it sounds great. But what the problem is, is that your product may in fact not be so good for what people have been using it for "PCT".

Again this could all be speculation and someone may point out something simple like 6-alpha bromo can not convert to saig 6-bromotest due to XYZ, but until then I find it very strange that you have not provided any evidence and instead state that PA is your competitor and thus we should discredit him.

 

[wojo]

This is way off topic, but isn't there some kind of steroid or ph that comes from some kind of s h i t?. Some animal poop or something?

cow poop thats 1,4 ad..its from the hormones they inject them with so iuts found naturally occurring in cow dung

 

[pudzian2]

Fit,

I used to think you were a pretty smart person but after reading through this you have given me little to base that belief on.

Look PA is not stating it that it will turn into a steroid. There are lots of steroids like androgens, oestrogens, adrenocortical hormones, cardiotonic glycosies and aglycones. These are all steroids and there are many more.

What I am trying to say is that if your product does what it does why dont you show us. SO far you have only stated that PA is a competitor and would love nothing more than to see this be true. Okay, show us that it is not. SO far you have not done that you have only said "people say it works" great that solves the problem for me.

I have not a problem with anabolic steroids usage. I think it would be very cool to find that high doses of 6-alpha bromo were infact able to promote anabolism. However what does bother me is the ambiguous nature with which companies release stuff. I may be completely wrong but I would relaly appreciate you showing me that this compound is not able to suppress the HPTA rather than give out free samples.

Understand that I am not trying to say your product sucks hell it sounds great. But what the problem is, is that your product may in fact not be so good for what people have been using it for "post cycle therapy".

Again this could all be speculation and someone may point out something simple like 6-alpha bromo can not convert to saig 6-bromotest due to XYZ, but until then I find it very strange that you have not provided any evidence and instead state that PA is your competitor and thus we should discredit him.

I SECOND THIS. I happen to be USING this product right now in PCT, and if this is counterproductive i will have a BIG, or shall i say, two tiny little problems hah.

 

[V00D00]

Sorry Patrick, I couldn't believe this thread was still going...

 

[snakebyte05]

Definitely an interesting read. Haven't used anything with 6-bromo yet, but good to know for the future. Looking forward to seeing that blood work soon on this.

Either way, PA, I definitely enjoy your posts so far over here. It may not be the greatest things for other companies, but if this turns out to be true, i'll be glad it got brought up. it is getting very hard to research and figure out what you are putting in your body with many supplements now a days.

 

[stxnas]

EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread!

 

[northern]

I SECOND THIS. I happen to be USING this product right now in post cycle therapy, and if this is counterproductive i will have a BIG, or shall i say, two tiny little problems hah.

That is exactly my point. I am not trying to bash Fit or her company. However I would really like to know if this product is the actual 6bromo PA is refering to or if the company has given us another misnomer with calling it 6-bromo (i.e. Diene3).

 

[Force of Green]

I'm kind of surprised that many have not tried researching these compounds themselves. I'd just like to state, as a neutral member here at AM, it's been an awesome pleasure to be actively posting here at Anabolicminds.com. Whether I've had concurrent or conflicting views with all of you members and board sponsors, I really like all of you. I don't sponsor nor do I receive bonuses or products from any company. I urge all of you to step back for a moment and please think about what is being said by Patrick Arnold and where he's coming from. The guy is obviously a smart man. One can say that he's 'The Man' in terms of steroids, etc. He's also bored as hell on house arrest and is a convicted felon. His lies and treacheries have wreaked havoc on the industry that we are sponsoring and have brought a lot of negative connotations to the athletic communities. This isn't what I'm trying to say... I believe that there may be more to learn on some of the compounds that are being marketed by some of the companies, but Patrick Arnold is trying to use his fancy vocabulary and an array of cut and paste literature to try and skew us from the matter at hand. Most of the consumers of these companies come to get information from this very reputable site... and we all know that word of mouth is the best form of advertisement... it's also the most bludgeoning form of destruction. Patrick isn't into helping people unless it helps himself. All he does here is cause trouble. He's earned his respect a while ago before tearing it down with his criminal instances (and there's more than meets the eye about that) and now his company just isn't very good at keeping up with the rest of the innovators in the market. What can one do if they can't put out something better? Rip down something that's already decent by skewing data and trying to INTERPRET THE ANALYSIS for us and give it all to us in LAY terms... just how we like it.

The data I found on 6-alpha bromo androstenedione and 6-beta bromo androstenedione are quite different than what Patrick is putting forth.

6.beta.-Bromo-1,2.beta.-methylenandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione (200 mg) in acetic acid (15 ml) at 15.degree.-20.degree. is treated with a steady stream of dry hydrogen chloride for 1 hour and then kept an additional hour at room temperature. Then water is added and the product isolated with ether. The combined ether extracts are washed with saturated salt solution, 5% sodium carbonate solution, water; dried and evaporated. Column chromatography of residue over silica gel using benzene/ethyl ether as eluant affords pure 6.alpha.-bromo-1,2.beta.-methylenandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione (150 mg, 75%).

Following the above reported procedure and starting from the 6.beta.-chloro-1,2.beta.-methylenandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione the epimeric 6.alpha.-chloro-1,2.beta.-methylenandrost-4-ene-3,17-dione can be prepared.

the solid oral forms may contain, together with the active compound, diluents, e.g., lactose, dextrose, saccharose, cellulose, corn starch or potato starch; lubricants, e.g. silica, talc, stearic acid, magnesium or calcium stearate, and/or polyethylene glycols; binding agents, e.g. starches, arabic gums, gelatin, methylcellulose, carboxymethylcellulose or polyvinyl pyrrolidone; disaggregating agents, e.g. a starch, alginic acid, alginates or sodium starch glycolate; effervescing mixtures; dyestuffs; sweeteners; wetting agents, such as lecithin, polysorbates, laurylsulphates; and, in general, non-toxic and pharmacologically inactive substances used in pharmaceutical formulations. Said pharmaceutical preparations may be manufactured in known manner, for example, by means of mixing, granulating, tabletting, sugar-coating, or film-coating processes.

The liquid dispersions for oral administration may be e.g. syrups, emulsions and suspensions.

The syrups may contain as carrier, for example, saccharose or saccharose with glycerine and/or mannitol and/or sorbitol. The suspensions and the emulsions may contain as carrier, for example, a natural gum, agar, sodium alginate, pectin, methylcellulose, carboxymethylcellulose, or polyvinyl alcohol.

The suspensions or solutions for intramuscular injections may contain, together with the active compound, a pharmaceutically acceptable carrier, e.g. sterile water, olive oil, ethyl oleate, glycols, e.g. propylene glycol, and if desired, a suitable amount of lidocaine hydrochloride.

The solutions for intravenous injections or infusions may contain as carrier, for example, sterile water or preferably they may be in the form of sterile, aqueous, isotonic saline solutions. The suppositories may contain together with the active compound a pharmaceutically acceptable carrier, e.g. cocoa-butter, polyethylene glycol, a polyoxyethylene sorbitan fatty acid ester surfactant or lecithin.

The dosage depends on the age, weight, conditions of the patient and administration route; for example the dosage adopted for oral administration to adult humans may range from about 10 to about 150-200 mg pro dose, from 1 to 5 times daily.

In view of their high therapeutic index, the compounds of the invention can be used safely in medicine. For example, the approximate acute toxicity (LD.sub.50) of the compounds of the invention in the mouse, determined by single administration of increasing doses and measured on the seventh day after the treatment was found to be negligible.

The compounds of the invention can be administered in a variety of dosage forms, e.g. orally, in the form of tablets, capsules, sugar or film coated tablets, liquid solutions or suspensions; rectally, in the form of suppositories; parenterally, e.g. intramuscularly, or by intravenous injection or infusion.



The new compounds, incubated at various concentrations, showed a relevant aromatase inhibitory activity.

By virtue of their ability to inhibit aromatase and, consequently, to reduce estrogen levels, the new compounds are useful in the treatment and prevention of various estrogen dependent diseases, i.e., breat, endometrial, ovarian and pancreatic cancers, gynecomastia, benign breast disease, endometriosis, polycystic ovarian disease and precocious puberty. Another application of the compounds of the invention is in the therapeutic and/or prophylactic treatment of prostatic hyperplasia, a disease of the estrogen dependent stromal tissue.


The compounds of the present invention are inhibitors of the biotransformation of androgens into estrogens, i.e., they are steroidal aromatase inhibitors.

6-Bromo is a perfectly functional steroidal... yes steroidal aromatase inhibitor, whether it be in alpha or beta molecular form. It reminds me a lot like formestane, which I think is a Godsend, although some may disagree. In reccommended doses, 6-bromo will suppress estrogen enough to allow for the body's natural testosterone stimulation to jumpstart and minimize estrogen related side effects in tissues.

6-bromo is the base AI of many different products and has sufficient research to back it up, so please don't allow Patrick Arnold's comments be the reason that you pass off negative feedback on a product or don't take the product. It's only allowing him to win. What really sucks is that Patrick uses his authority to present facts and such in ways that appeal even to the intelligent consumer and then when he has you hooked into his views and in his graces, he'll throw a change up and have you believing something that isn't. The only dish PA is serving is a bunch of s**t sandwiches. You may eat it, but after you chew on it, you're not going to like it.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I'm kind of surprised that many have not tried researching these compounds themselves. I'd just like to state, as a neutral member here at AM, it's been an awesome pleasure to be actively posting here at Anabolicminds.com. Whether I've had concurrent or conflicting views with all of you members and board sponsors, I really like all of you. I don't sponsor nor do I receive bonuses or products from any company. I urge all of you to step back for a moment and please think about what is being said by Patrick Arnold and where he's coming from. The guy is obviously a smart man. One can say that he's 'The Man' in terms of steroids, etc. He's also bored as hell on house arrest and is a convicted felon. His lies and treacheries have wreaked havoc on the industry that we are sponsoring and have brought a lot of negative connotations to the athletic communities. This isn't what I'm trying to say... I believe that there may be more to learn on some of the compounds that are being marketed by some of the companies, but Patrick Arnold is trying to use his fancy vocabulary and an array of cut and paste literature to try and skew us from the matter at hand. Most of the consumers of these companies come to get information from this very reputable site... and we all know that word of mouth is the best form of advertisement... it's also the most bludgeoning form of destruction. Patrick isn't into helping people unless it helps himself. All he does here is cause trouble. He's earned his respect a while ago before tearing it down with his criminal instances (and there's more than meets the eye about that) and now his company just isn't very good at keeping up with the rest of the innovators in the market. What can one do if they can't put out something better? Rip down something that's already decent by skewing data and trying to INTERPRET THE ANALYSIS for us and give it all to us in LAY terms... just how we like it.

The data I found on 6-alpha bromo androstenedione and 6-beta bromo androstenedione are quite different than what Patrick is putting forth.



6-Bromo is a perfectly functional steroidal... yes steroidal aromatase inhibitor, whether it be in alpha or beta molecular form. It reminds me a lot like formestane, which I think is a Godsend, although some may disagree. In reccommended doses, 6-bromo will suppress estrogen enough to allow for the body's natural testosterone stimulation to jumpstart and minimize estrogen related side effects in tissues.

6-bromo is the base AI of many different products and has sufficient research to back it up, so please don't allow Patrick Arnold's comments be the reason that you pass off negative feedback on a product or don't take the product. It's only allowing him to win. What really sucks is that Patrick uses his authority to present facts and such in ways that appeal even to the intelligent consumer and then when he has you hooked into his views and in his graces, he'll throw a change up and have you believing something that isn't. The only dish PA is serving is a bunch of s**t sandwiches. You may eat it, but after you chew on it, you're not going to like it.

thanks for your feedback

and your irrelevant copy and paste

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I'm kind of surprised that many have not tried researching these compounds themselves. I'd just like to state, as a neutral member here at AM, it's been an awesome pleasure to be actively posting here at Anabolicminds.com. Whether I've had concurrent or conflicting views with all of you members and board sponsors, I really like all of you. I don't sponsor nor do I receive bonuses or products from any company. I urge all of you to step back for a moment and please think about what is being said by Patrick Arnold and where he's coming from. The guy is obviously a smart man. One can say that he's 'The Man' in terms of steroids, etc. He's also bored as hell on house arrest and is a convicted felon. His lies and treacheries have wreaked havoc on the industry that we are sponsoring and have brought a lot of negative connotations to the athletic communities. This isn't what I'm trying to say... I believe that there may be more to learn on some of the compounds that are being marketed by some of the companies, but Patrick Arnold is trying to use his fancy vocabulary and an array of cut and paste literature to try and skew us from the matter at hand. Most of the consumers of these companies come to get information from this very reputable site... and we all know that word of mouth is the best form of advertisement... it's also the most bludgeoning form of destruction. Patrick isn't into helping people unless it helps himself. All he does here is cause trouble. He's earned his respect a while ago before tearing it down with his criminal instances (and there's more than meets the eye about that) and now his company just isn't very good at keeping up with the rest of the innovators in the market. What can one do if they can't put out something better? Rip down something that's already decent by skewing data and trying to INTERPRET THE ANALYSIS for us and give it all to us in LAY terms... just how we like it.

The data I found on 6-alpha bromo androstenedione and 6-beta bromo androstenedione are quite different than what Patrick is putting forth.



6-Bromo is a perfectly functional steroidal... yes steroidal aromatase inhibitor, whether it be in alpha or beta molecular form. It reminds me a lot like formestane, which I think is a Godsend, although some may disagree. In reccommended doses, 6-bromo will suppress estrogen enough to allow for the body's natural testosterone stimulation to jumpstart and minimize estrogen related side effects in tissues.

6-bromo is the base AI of many different products and has sufficient research to back it up, so please don't allow Patrick Arnold's comments be the reason that you pass off negative feedback on a product or don't take the product. It's only allowing him to win. What really sucks is that Patrick uses his authority to present facts and such in ways that appeal even to the intelligent consumer and then when he has you hooked into his views and in his graces, he'll throw a change up and have you believing something that isn't. The only dish PA is serving is a bunch of s**t sandwiches. You may eat it, but after you chew on it, you're not going to like it.

1,2-beta methylene

do you see that in the chemical name of the compound we are discussing?

no you don't, so why did you post a quote from a patent with a chemical that did? obviously not the same chemical at all.

and even if it was, all you did was show that the compound was an anti-aromatase. which is something i am on total agreement with

dude, you obviously are not following the point i am trying to make at all.

if you got over your fear of evil PA and figure out what we are talking about then you would see the significance. and you will see that it has nothing to do with me saying its a BAD product, it has to do with me bringing to people's attention the fact that it probably is not suitable for PCT.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

I'm kind of surprised that many have not tried researching these compounds themselves. I'd just like to state, as a neutral member here at AM, it's been an awesome pleasure to be actively posting here at Anabolicminds.com. Whether I've had concurrent or conflicting views with all of you members and board sponsors, I really like all of you. I don't sponsor nor do I receive bonuses or products from any company. I urge all of you to step back for a moment and please think about what is being said by Patrick Arnold and where he's coming from. The guy is obviously a smart man. One can say that he's 'The Man' in terms of steroids, etc. He's also bored as hell on house arrest and is a convicted felon. .

no, i got off of house arrest may 7th

since author was too busy on his yacht to educate his consumers on his products i figured it was up to me to do so.

 

[Viperspit]

I urge all of you to step back for a moment and please think about what is being said by Patrick Arnold and where he's coming from. The guy is obviously a smart man. One can say that he's 'The Man' in terms of steroids, etc. He's also bored as hell on house arrest and is a convicted felon. His lies and treacheries have wreaked havoc on the industry that we are sponsoring and have brought a lot of negative connotations to the athletic communities.

Agreed but a bit of a low blow as well. If you are going to use the felon angle, then I can think of a few others in this category that use similar marketing tactics.

Beware of Companies that attack others products as thier marketing tool. Take a look around and you will see this is very common with a few competitors as they lose market share.

I have no issues with true debates, but I can almost guess what Patricks next topic of discussion will be, and since it's not found in any of his products, I'm sure he is just looking out for the consumers best interest.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Agreed but a bit of a low blow as well. If you are going to use the felon angle, then I can think of a few others in this category that use similar marketing tactics.

Beware of Companies that attack others products as thier marketing tool. Take a look around and you will see this is very common with a few competitors as they lose market share.

I have no issues with true debates, but I can almost guess what Patricks next topic of discussion will be, and since it's not found in any of his products, I'm sure he is just looking out for the consumers best interest.

i cannot see how ergo is losing any signficant market share to ALRI. none of the distributors that we use even carry his stuff as far as i know

and since china is shutting down exports of hormonals, and we make our own 11-oxo, any analyst would say my stock is skyrocketing and yours is plummetting.

can you give me a hint on what me next topic of discussion is gonna be? i wasn't planning on busting on you guys anymore but if you want me to then go ahead, gimme a hint

 

[xjsynx]

I'm kind of surprised that many have not tried researching these compounds themselves. I'd just like to state, as a neutral member here at AM, it's been an awesome pleasure to be actively posting here at Anabolicminds.com. Whether I've had concurrent or conflicting views with all of you members and board sponsors, I really like all of you. I don't sponsor nor do I receive bonuses or products from any company. I urge all of you to step back for a moment and please think about what is being said by Patrick Arnold and where he's coming from. The guy is obviously a smart man. One can say that he's 'The Man' in terms of steroids, etc. He's also bored as hell on house arrest and is a convicted felon. His lies and treacheries have wreaked havoc on the industry that we are sponsoring and have brought a lot of negative connotations to the athletic communities. This isn't what I'm trying to say... I believe that there may be more to learn on some of the compounds that are being marketed by some of the companies, but Patrick Arnold is trying to use his fancy vocabulary and an array of cut and paste literature to try and skew us from the matter at hand. Most of the consumers of these companies come to get information from this very reputable site... and we all know that word of mouth is the best form of advertisement... it's also the most bludgeoning form of destruction. Patrick isn't into helping people unless it helps himself. All he does here is cause trouble. He's earned his respect a while ago before tearing it down with his criminal instances (and there's more than meets the eye about that) and now his company just isn't very good at keeping up with the rest of the innovators in the market. What can one do if they can't put out something better? Rip down something that's already decent by skewing data and trying to INTERPRET THE ANALYSIS for us and give it all to us in LAY terms... just how we like it.

The data I found on 6-alpha bromo androstenedione and 6-beta bromo androstenedione are quite different than what Patrick is putting forth.



6-Bromo is a perfectly functional steroidal... yes steroidal aromatase inhibitor, whether it be in alpha or beta molecular form. It reminds me a lot like formestane, which I think is a Godsend, although some may disagree. In reccommended doses, 6-bromo will suppress estrogen enough to allow for the body's natural testosterone stimulation to jumpstart and minimize estrogen related side effects in tissues.

6-bromo is the base AI of many different products and has sufficient research to back it up, so please don't allow Patrick Arnold's comments be the reason that you pass off negative feedback on a product or don't take the product. It's only allowing him to win. What really sucks is that Patrick uses his authority to present facts and such in ways that appeal even to the intelligent consumer and then when he has you hooked into his views and in his graces, he'll throw a change up and have you believing something that isn't. The only dish PA is serving is a bunch of s**t sandwiches. You may eat it, but after you chew on it, you're not going to like it.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Force of Green again.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

He's earned his respect a while ago before tearing it down with his criminal instances (and there's more than meets the eye about that).

there is? ok what did you hear? come on, tell me. i need a laugh. i wanna know what little stupid rumors are going on. tell me by pm if you like. i won't bite, i just am really curious what cr*p people are making up

6-bromo is the base AI of many different products and has sufficient research to back it up, so please don't allow Patrick Arnold's comments be the reason that you pass off negative feedback on a product or don't take the product. It's only allowing him to win. What really sucks is that Patrick uses his authority to present facts and such in ways that appeal even to the intelligent consumer and then when he has you hooked into his views and in his graces, he'll throw a change up and have you believing something that isn't. The only dish PA is serving is a bunch of s**t sandwiches. You may eat it, but after you chew on it, you're not going to like it.

can you please tell me what i have said on here that you think was inaccurate? and where i said that the product was useless?

i never said it was useless, never. stop putting words in my mouth. then chill out and listen to me. you might learn something

 

[jasonschaffin]

I'm kind of surprised that many have not tried researching these compounds themselves. I'd just like to state, as a neutral member here at AM, it's been an awesome pleasure to be actively posting here at Anabolicminds.com. Whether I've had concurrent or conflicting views with all of you members and board sponsors, I really like all of you. I don't sponsor nor do I receive bonuses or products from any company. I urge all of you to step back for a moment and please think about what is being said by Patrick Arnold and where he's coming from. The guy is obviously a smart man. One can say that he's 'The Man' in terms of steroids, etc. He's also bored as hell on house arrest and is a convicted felon. His lies and treacheries have wreaked havoc on the industry that we are sponsoring and have brought a lot of negative connotations to the athletic communities. This isn't what I'm trying to say... I believe that there may be more to learn on some of the compounds that are being marketed by some of the companies, but Patrick Arnold is trying to use his fancy vocabulary and an array of cut and paste literature to try and skew us from the matter at hand. Most of the consumers of these companies come to get information from this very reputable site... and we all know that word of mouth is the best form of advertisement... it's also the most bludgeoning form of destruction. Patrick isn't into helping people unless it helps himself. All he does here is cause trouble. He's earned his respect a while ago before tearing it down with his criminal instances (and there's more than meets the eye about that) and now his company just isn't very good at keeping up with the rest of the innovators in the market. What can one do if they can't put out something better? Rip down something that's already decent by skewing data and trying to INTERPRET THE ANALYSIS for us and give it all to us in LAY terms... just how we like it.

The data I found on 6-alpha bromo androstenedione and 6-beta bromo androstenedione are quite different than what Patrick is putting forth.



6-Bromo is a perfectly functional steroidal... yes steroidal aromatase inhibitor, whether it be in alpha or beta molecular form. It reminds me a lot like formestane, which I think is a Godsend, although some may disagree. In reccommended doses, 6-bromo will suppress estrogen enough to allow for the body's natural testosterone stimulation to jumpstart and minimize estrogen related side effects in tissues.

6-bromo is the base AI of many different products and has sufficient research to back it up, so please don't allow Patrick Arnold's comments be the reason that you pass off negative feedback on a product or don't take the product. It's only allowing him to win. What really sucks is that Patrick uses his authority to present facts and such in ways that appeal even to the intelligent consumer and then when he has you hooked into his views and in his graces, he'll throw a change up and have you believing something that isn't. The only dish PA is serving is a bunch of s**t sandwiches. You may eat it, but after you chew on it, you're not going to like it.

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold:
we all know its an aromatase inhibitor thank you

stay on topic

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold:
i don't necessarily disagree with you however it certainly is NOT the best choice for testicular recovery

for testicular recovery you need a pure anti-estrogen product with no competing HPTA inhibitor androgenic action

much like with formestane

are these those sh*t sandwiches he's feeding you?
The quotes where he says it is probably a good product and an anti-estrogen and just not the best in post cycle therapy?
Maybe if you would actually read the thread...:bruce1:

 

[jasonschaffin]

In reccommended doses, 6-bromo will suppress estrogen enough to allow for the body's natural testosterone stimulation to jumpstart and minimize estrogen related side effects in tissues.

Do we have any numbers showing a good increase in Test from this? I have never seen a before and after bloodtest done w/6-Bromo standalone.
If this product is like Formestane than it is in a whole different category and not the best for post cycle therapy. Good standalone or during a cycle though.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Do we have any numbers showing a good increase in Test from this? I have never seen a before and after bloodtest done w/6-Bromo standalone.
If this product is like Formestane than it is in a whole different category and not the best for post cycle therapy. Good standalone or during a cycle though.

Yes, 6-bromoandrostenedione is very analagous to 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (formestane)

Both are aromatase inhibitors. and both are substituted androstenediones that are (very highly likely) precursors to active androgens

There is not alot on the effects of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione on testosterone levels in men but what is in the literature supports the argument that the compound does not have HPTA stimulatory activity

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1993 Sep;46(3):373-9. Links
Pharmacokinetics of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione in man after intramuscular injection of different formulations and the effect of this drug on plasma aromatizable androgens and 17beta-estradiol concentrations.
Danza G, Muratori M, Guarna A, Occhiato EG, Sadri R, Serio M.
Clinical Physiopathology Department, University of Firenze, Italy.
Pharmacokinetics of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (4-OHA), a potent aromatase inhibitor under investigation for treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer, were studied using two formulations with different particle sizes of 4.2 and 8.0 microm, respectively. A single 250 mg dose of 4-OHA of each of the two formulations was administered in two different periods to six healthy male volunteers and blood samples were collected for up to 14 days. 4-OHA plasma levels were determined using the isotope dilution mass spectrometry method. Comparison of the pharmacokinetic profiles of the two formulations did not show any statistically significant difference, even though the 4.2 microm particle size gave apparently higher levels at 24 h. Using this formulation, the effects of 4-OHA on the plasma levels of aromatizable androgens (testosterone and androstenedione) and 17beta-estradiol were studied. An isotope dilution mass spectrometry method was developed for the simultaneous quantitative determination of these steroids in human plasma. The analysis of plasma samples showed a significant reduction of plasma estradiol concentrations (50%) which coincided with the maximum concentration peak of the inhibitor, whereas no significant changes in androgen levels were observed.
PMID: 9831486 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[bitterplacebo]

It's not necessary to bring up past mistakes or current interests in an attempt to discredit someone. It's a bleak perspective on life, to judge a person today for their actions of yesterday, assuming that they can't change. You don't have to like the person, you don't have to listen, and you certainly shouldn't just take any one person's word for the truth. But change is possible and the assumptions that some are making only serve to vent their personal frustration and discontent. It distracts from those looking for the truth, and more than likely only puts the opposing person in a foul mood. Change is possible, and you can't remain angry forever at someone for things they did before or for assumptions that you're now making about them. It's not healthy. It's equally bad to misplace your frustration, like putting it into these forums, so just let it go. It's not necessary.

No disclaimer, this is how I feel and it's disconcerting for me to see these things from anyone that I expect to look to for information and advice, which should include everyone in this community.

 

[bitterplacebo]

Yes, 6-bromoandrostenedione is very analagous to 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (formestane)

Both are aromatase inhibitors. and both are substituted androstenediones that are (very highly likely) precursors to active androgens

There is not alot on the effects of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione on testosterone levels in men but what is in the literature supports the argument that the compound does not have HPTA stimulatory activity

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 1993 Sep;46(3):373-9. Links
Pharmacokinetics of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione in man after intramuscular injection of different formulations and the effect of this drug on plasma aromatizable androgens and 17beta-estradiol concentrations.
Danza G, Muratori M, Guarna A, Occhiato EG, Sadri R, Serio M.
Clinical Physiopathology Department, University of Firenze, Italy.
Pharmacokinetics of 4-hydroxyandrostenedione (4-OHA), a potent aromatase inhibitor under investigation for treatment of postmenopausal breast cancer, were studied using two formulations with different particle sizes of 4.2 and 8.0 microm, respectively. A single 250 mg dose of 4-OHA of each of the two formulations was administered in two different periods to six healthy male volunteers and blood samples were collected for up to 14 days. 4-OHA plasma levels were determined using the isotope dilution mass spectrometry method. Comparison of the pharmacokinetic profiles of the two formulations did not show any statistically significant difference, even though the 4.2 microm particle size gave apparently higher levels at 24 h. Using this formulation, the effects of 4-OHA on the plasma levels of aromatizable androgens (testosterone and androstenedione) and 17beta-estradiol were studied. An isotope dilution mass spectrometry method was developed for the simultaneous quantitative determination of these steroids in human plasma. The analysis of plasma samples showed a significant reduction of plasma estradiol concentrations (50%) which coincided with the maximum concentration peak of the inhibitor, whereas no significant changes in androgen levels were observed.
PMID: 9831486 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

You said formestane, and thus 6-bromo, are very highly likely precursors to androgens, but the conclusion to what you cited is that formestane does not significantly change androgen levels.

This means that formestane has no HPTA stimulation activity, but why wouldn't it also indicate that it does not convert into an androgen. If it did, wouldn't the results have shown elevated androgens (which would have been from direct conversion or from HPTA stimulation)? And from that, it would mean 6-bromo is not likely to be a precursor to an androgen and also not good for HPTA stimulation because it's similar.

 

[xjsynx]

I really think a lot of people on this forum are extremely jealous of PA's brilliance.
nuff' said.

:toofunny:

Actually it is his arrogance and condescending tone, that people take offense by. I really don't think people are going to hate him because he brilliant. This isn't elementary school.

I like his contributions to AM, no matter what the intent is because I think a lot of peeps just start popping pills without asking what is this suppose to do for me.

 

[animalkrack3r]

Actually it is his arrogance and condescending tone, that people take offense by. I really don't think people are going to hate him because he brilliant. This isn't elementary school.

I like his contributions to AM, no matter what the intent is because I think a lot of peeps just start popping pills without asking what is this suppose to do for me.

lol I laughed at my ownself when i posted that, I'm assuming i'm going to get flamed here... but it's cool.

 

[bitterplacebo]

I like his contributions to AM, no matter what the intent is because I think a lot of peeps just start popping pills without asking what is this suppose to do for me.

This is why I like to get involved here. The ignorance about supplements is astonishing and some people would be surprised to learn that what they're taking isn't the healthiest choice. I'm not talking at all about this one in particular, but there's lots of dangerous/unhealthy combinations of things that people need to be aware of.

 

[animalkrack3r]

I pop like 40 percocets as soon as i get out of bed and down a case of beer by 9 am.
Is this unhealthy for me?

 

[Zombie]

I pop like 40 percocets as soon as i get out of bed and down a case of beer by 9 am.
Is this unhealthy for me?

No ,actually you should doble the dose of percocets and why a case of beer? why not everclear or bacardi 151 ?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

It's not necessary to bring up past mistakes or current interests in an attempt to discredit someone. It's a bleak perspective on life, to judge a person today for their actions of yesterday, assuming that they can't change. You don't have to like the person, you don't have to listen, and you certainly shouldn't just take any one person's word for the truth. But change is possible and the assumptions that some are making only serve to vent their personal frustration and discontent. It distracts from those looking for the truth, and more than likely only puts the opposing person in a foul mood. Change is possible, and you can't remain angry forever at someone for things they did before or for assumptions that you're now making about them. It's not healthy. It's equally bad to misplace your frustration, like putting it into these forums, so just let it go. It's not necessary.

No disclaimer, this is how I feel and it's disconcerting for me to see these things from anyone that I expect to look to for information and advice, which should include everyone in this community.

thanks

I regret my crime because i put my business at risk (my partners and other employees were never aware of what i was doing) and because i put a bad name upon performance enhancement and steroids. I really do believe today that a person that competes in a tested league should not cheat, and no one should help them cheat. I did not believe that years ago, and neither did Victor Conte. We both have changed our views however

As far as my crime goes, I do not understand people pointing to it as evidence of bad character and lack of trustworthiness as a supplement company representative. The steroids i manufactured for Balco took tedious work and their administration to the athletes was done under very close supervision. the health of the athlete was always a top priority and we always sought the minimum quantity of drug possible to acheive the desired effect.

I would think that (ethics aside) this experience of mine only indicates my competence in the field and illustrates my strong concern for the athlete/consumer

 

[Patrick Arnold]

You said formestane, and thus 6-bromo, are very highly likely precursors to androgens, but the conclusion to what you cited is that formestane does not significantly change androgen levels.

This means that formestane has no HPTA stimulation activity, but why wouldn't it also indicate that it does not convert into an androgen. If it did, wouldn't the results have shown elevated androgens (which would have been from direct conversion or from HPTA stimulation)? And from that, it would mean 6-bromo is not likely to be a precursor to an androgen and also not good for HPTA stimulation because it's similar.

you missed the part of the study which stated which hormones (androgens) they were looking for. they were not looking for 4-hydroxytestosterone (which is what you apparently are thinking here)

"Using this formulation, the effects of 4-OHA on the plasma levels of aromatizable androgens (testosterone and androstenedione) and 17beta-estradiol"

 

[Patrick Arnold]

:toofunny:

Actually it is his arrogance and condescending tone, that people take offense by.

sometimes people misinterpret proper grammar and intelligent writing as condescendion

these are usually the same people that take pride in "keeping it real!"