supplement companies making more and more **** based on pseudoscience

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  1. supplement companies making more and more **** based on pseudoscience


    This thread is quite interesting, the part about dangerous stimulants/toxic piques my interest.

    Let's just say a use of a certain supplement has pretty much made a big difference in my life, negatively. (Positively in terms of increasing focus I suppose)

    So much so.. that I had withdrawal symptoms, even had to see a doctor and was diagnosed with something.

    But as soon as I took a scoop, all "withdrawal" effects have gone away.

    Now I'm basically taking it 2-3 times a week to get through my semester at college, so I don't perform any less than baseline.

    Who knows.. maybe it was a phase, or maybe as soon as I discontinue usage, I will go back to experiencing the HORRIBLE withdrawal symptoms that I was experiencing for MONTHS.


  2. he is right, taking a high stimmed pre causes immediate subcutaneous water retention for me, a sign of strongly elevated cortisol levels. it also ruins my performance being all hyped up. i prefer calm relaxed energy, then freak out for the duration of the set and go back to being all zen or ***** f you prefer to call it that haha
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  3. phenibut?
  4. supplement companies making more and more **** based on pseudoscience


    Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    phenibut?
    Nope. Eria and juglans in the stim matrix, and caffeine.

    Love the company, have loved their products in the past, but damn using this supplement really has f***ed me up mentally

  5. wow, WD from stims? just extreme fatigue or something as extreme as opioid or benzo WD?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    wow, WD from stims? just extreme fatigue or something as extreme as opioid or benzo WD?
    Everyday Depression, RANDOM nervousness/anxiety, occasional bouts of tiredness

  7. all thats needed is 200mg purenergy, 100-200mg extra caffeine, 300mg alpha-gpc and one has perfect clean natural healthy long lasting energy with no burnout in the future....

  8. if you were in europe i would suggest you to try brawn smart focus. the depression and anxiety especially would be greatly relieved. and you optimize your neurochemical health over time.
  9. supplement companies making more and more **** based on pseudoscience


    Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    if you were in europe i would suggest you to try brawn smart focus. the depression and anxiety especially would be greatly relieved. and you optimize your neurochemical health over time.
    I'll have to see once this semester is over and I discontinue usage again, whether the withdrawal effects/ depression returns. Hopefully it was a phase, and it does not return. But I definitely do not want to go on the medication the doctor recommended, simply because some stupid fat burner induced the depression

    It just sucks having to suffer through it, when all you did was buy a supplement for the sake of energy/fat loss goals lol. Praying that the withdrawals never return

  10. Quote Originally Posted by ManuR View Post
    im serious..
    ever heard of cortisol?
    @redman:
    many different opinions on amento.
    bioavailability should be crappy and thats why some think its a fraud (i never used it, so i wont comment)
    read many threads by neuron explaining this issue
    wtf

  11. Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    he is right, taking a high stimmed pre causes immediate subcutaneous water retention for me, a sign of strongly elevated cortisol levels. it also ruins my performance being all hyped up. i prefer calm relaxed energy, then freak out for the duration of the set and go back to being all zen or ***** f you prefer to call it that haha
    OMG

  12. usplabsrep is having some completely unanticipated intellectual outbursts here it seems

  13. Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    usplabsrep is having some completely unanticipated intellectual outbursts here it seems
    practicing Instagram comments

  14. hahahahha.
    tell me, where do i find nice tannin rich banaba?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by iamyourfather View Post
    the problem is that it improves your fat cells insulin sensitivity and you dont want that. „insulin sensitivity“ at all is some marketing shot most of the time. „nutrient partitioning“ with supplements is quite worthless.

    after a training session your insulin sensitivity is up for several hours, its up IN the muscles. (to improve general insulin sensitivity you mustn’t be fat and you have to do sports - thats it)

    berberin actives ampk, ampk tells the cell a low energy status. the cell afterwards wants to get nutrients, glucose out of the bloodstream. (a cell with low energy status doesnt want to do anything like proteine synthesis, just to show, why muscle hypertrophy + berberin do not well together)

    so there are two possibilities:

    - you improve the insulin sensitivity, which is anyway on a high level after training, with berberin but also inhibit protein synthesis

    - or the ampk suppression through training balances the effect of berberin and ampk does not get increased - no effect in the muscles

    the ampk activation works in the whole body! so if it isnt increased inside the muscles, it will still work inside the fat cells. gratulation, you made your fat cells more insulin sensitive. great idea - now the fat cells desire to store some nutrients.
    Your hypothesis that fat cells shouldn't be sensitive to insulin is highly flawed for one thing. I DO want my fat cells, along with all my other fat cells, to be sensitive to insulin. Fat cells serve a function beyond energy storage, and they are part of the system as a whole. Insulin resistance in fat cells will contribute to systemic resistance. Sorry.

    You do realize that exercise is one of the best ways to increase AMPK right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I do like that you said Performax copied you, but yet you use caffeine and copy everyone else. L dopa in a sleep aid?

    Get your own ideas, bruh!
    Brah, I like, discovered this compound! I love how developers often forget that they are, at best, reading OTHER scientists' research and applying it - they didn't discover it. There could be studies of agmatine improving glucose tolerance going back to before any of us were born. Now, granted, if he is the first to find those studies and apply them to a partitioner...awesome. But still...


    Quote Originally Posted by muscleupcrohn View Post
    LCLT has multiple studies showing benefits. Are you claiming that the results of these studies are incorrect/flawed/etc? Also, are you not a fan of ALCAR? Granted, it has different uses that LCLT/PLCAR, but your post seems to indicate that you don’t think ALCAR is “Worth a damn,” as it was not mentioned with what you say are the only carnitines worth a damn. Is this true? Also, would you mind showing me the research showing that LCLT is “harmful to mitochondria.” Thanks in advance.
    Those studies are all just pseudoscience. I get my research from the source. That source happens to be a bunch of people who have a disease that is not even recognized by many doctors....good ol' CFS. If someone with CFS says they are sick, you can take that sh1t to the bank.

    Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    i said arginocarn was good. i admit, i was being a little extreme. alcar is not useless, just not as good as arginocarn.

    as for lclt, the best way is to google cfs/me (chronic fatigue syndrome/myalgic encephalomyelitis) and find post about carnitines and how they made people feel. lclt basically makes everyone worse while fumarate is of significant help. as the condition includes mitochondrial dysfunction (i am affected myself), these reports are more valuable to me than any study as it shows tartaric acid is something healthy peoply may tolerate but it is definitely not a good substance.
    Can you explain to me what, "Mitochondrial Dysfunction" means? It seems like you're taking a disease that may not even really have a pathology, and then taking a specific chemical that people claim they "feel worse" when they take it, and making a lot of jumps here. The irony is the title of your thread is against companies making supplements using pseudoscience - and this is just way way counter to your original statement.

    And to take a chemical and then say it is bad because a group of supposedly "sick" individuals can't tolerate it - that's a big leap in itself. Do you avoid all sources of phenylalanine too?

    I'm seriously not trying to bash and you actually seem like a pretty smart guy, but you've got some leaps here...

    Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    olympus claims that their pomegranate and vaso6 are far superior to cop and amentoflavone though. this is simply inaccurate unless you consider strength gains the least relevant factor in performance enhancement. i havent seen anyone using the vaso6 or epicatechin+vaso6 having insane gains in strength and i have plenty of experience with pomegranate extract, standardized to punicallagins, not ellagic acid. and cop and amento in proper doses give far more strength, eventhough pomegranate is great for endurance and vaso6 may be too. the mistake here is considering cop and amento endurance supplements. 2g of cop and 160-240mg of amento do not increase my endurance, they increase the weight i can move instantly after the first dosage. especially amento, but the dose needs to be at least 160mg for me and people never got that. i thought conquer unleashed with cop and amento was great when it came out, such a good idea, despite me not agreeing that cholinergics are a good thing unless used in moderation. then they moved further and further away from their brilliant creation towards some weird stuff with 5!!!!! stims.
    and no matter what is claimed, the sides people report are typical yohimbine type sides.
    Amentoflavone seems to have not panned out for A LOT of people. One of the big effects people did notice from amento, I believe, is increased pump. Pomegranate juice should inhibit arginase....so that's maybe the area where it excels? Vasodilation? Not sure, haven't seen research on pomegranate juice having performance benefits beyond that, nor read the write-ups - just assuming that's probably a viable angle. We can debate if pumps are even useful...I don't use Pre's all that much. OL's pre's have been as good as any of the others I've tried though.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCx View Post
    This thread is quite interesting, the part about dangerous stimulants/toxic piques my interest.

    Let's just say a use of a certain supplement has pretty much made a big difference in my life, negatively. (Positively in terms of increasing focus I suppose)

    So much so.. that I had withdrawal symptoms, even had to see a doctor and was diagnosed with something.

    But as soon as I took a scoop, all "withdrawal" effects have gone away.

    Now I'm basically taking it 2-3 times a week to get through my semester at college, so I don't perform any less than baseline.

    Who knows.. maybe it was a phase, or maybe as soon as I discontinue usage, I will go back to experiencing the HORRIBLE withdrawal symptoms that I was experiencing for MONTHS.
    That sucks man. That's a complex issue - not really sure it is 100% stim caused, but a lot of stims also have neurological effects including MAO inhibition, adenosine blockade, etc.

    Have you had issues sleeping? Do you get a full night's sleep normally? Obviously not trying to pry, just seeing if something obvious pops out.

  16. as it affects me personally i will get to your other points later and point this one out first. cfs or me (myalgic encephalomyelitis) is a neuroimmunological illness with various abnormalities which have been measured and documented and it is recognized as a real physical illness in most countries including the US and specialists confirm that their patients are not only mentally healthy and have measurable physical abnormalities but are also sicker than HIV patients and some as sick or worse than MS patients or terminal cancer. i can speak from experience that i have wished on so many days that i could have a simple brain tumor, or my legs amputated instead of feeling like dying but not and being in pain which is unimagineable to anyone who has not experienced it.
    luckily i found treatment and i think the suicide rate in the severe cases is only not significantly higher than normal because those people are not capable of comitting suicide. if you gave them a gun on the other hand....

  17. cfs/me is probably caused by an enterovirus. it could be something completely different however. what i know is what it did to my body and brain:
    increased cortisol
    excessive glutamate---->excitotoxicity leading to cognitive dysfunction
    reduced immunoglobulins, damaged immune system: infections all the time

    lack of endorphins: indescribable pain
    lack of gaba or gaba binding to receptors which correlates to the glutamatergic excitotoxicity.

    i tried all sorts of stuff an noticed that two things helped the most. diazepam and tramadol.

    as a last resort i went to a neurologist/psychiatrist and told him my whole story which took hours. he was the first dr. in germany, where the illness is considered psychological, which violates the terms of the world health organization, who took me seriously. he asked me how he could help me. i said diazepam and venlafaxine (moa similar to tramadol). within one dosage i felt better than in 4 years. over time however one symptom that would not go was the pain, also venlafaxine has stimulant like effects via norepinephrine and serotonin was also not necessary, as i had no depression. basically my brain needed inhibitory neurotransmission and venlafaxine was covering some symptoms but also not good for my brain health. so i asked for oxycodone. he may be the only dr. in the country who agreed and he saved my life. i went from severely ill, wondering why i was not dying as i felt like it, to nearly completely normal. i have to mention my pain was so bad that 300mg oral morphine had me in a state were i needed all my willpower while i was walking 500 metres not to start screaming from the pain. it was an attempt to see wether anything else than oxycodone would help. luckily i made it to the pharmacy and got my new oxycodone. so i have pain which is intolerable on a morphine dose which would kill several people (it was immediate release).
    the only other thing that works is morphine injections, but with oxycodone i feel more energetic and clearer.

    so despite the word fatigue i didnt need any energy boost, i actually had too much excitation happening in my brain, destroying my immune system and not producing any endorphins or so little that my body felt like it had been smashed and every bone broken into tiny pieces.

    it is uconventional, many consider it dangerous, irresponsible or whatever but i must be the only case i ever heard of who went from more ill than his grandparents were when they had cancer (i saw how they had good moments and didnt suffer too much) to almost completely healthy.
    this was possible through me knowing and analyzing my body and brain chemistry and a dr. who listens and does whats good for the patient. he says that if someone asks for something and the explanation why he wants this specifically (and i explained it in language only a dr. would understand) maes sense, then he sees no reason not to try it. for most it probably might not work or make them worse but i knew what my brain was lacking and replacing the missing chemicals repaired my whole physiological system. otherwise i would be dead now.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    odd thread, it seems like someone is having a conversation with themselves to further an objective.
    I thought the same thing.

    But then I remembered that I really like alphadex and that myokem should hire me
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
    X-gels for strength, Focus XT for mental performance & Joint Support XT for pain free mobility

  19. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    wtf
    sad you cant even comment with some arguments.
    heavy stimulants lead to excess cortisol, believe it or not.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by ManuR View Post
    sad you cant even comment with some arguments.
    heavy stimulants lead to excess cortisol, believe it or not.
    High stims do lead to increase in cortisol, yes. Excessive amounts? That's debatable! There is evidence that temporarily elevated cortisol that comes with a workout is healthy.

  21. high stims pre make me retain subcutaneous water quickly. a sign of excess cortisol.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by redman24 View Post
    cfs/me is probably caused by an enterovirus. it could be something completely different however. what i know is what it did to my body and brain:
    increased cortisol
    excessive glutamate---->excitotoxicity leading to cognitive dysfunction
    reduced immunoglobulins, damaged immune system: infections all the time

    lack of endorphins: indescribable pain
    lack of gaba or gaba binding to receptors which correlates to the glutamatergic excitotoxicity.

    i tried all sorts of stuff an noticed that two things helped the most. diazepam and tramadol.

    as a last resort i went to a neurologist/psychiatrist and told him my whole story which took hours. he was the first dr. in germany, where the illness is considered psychological, which violates the terms of the world health organization, who took me seriously. he asked me how he could help me. i said diazepam and venlafaxine (moa similar to tramadol). within one dosage i felt better than in 4 years. over time however one symptom that would not go was the pain, also venlafaxine has stimulant like effects via norepinephrine and serotonin was also not necessary, as i had no depression. basically my brain needed inhibitory neurotransmission and venlafaxine was covering some symptoms but also not good for my brain health. so i asked for oxycodone. he may be the only dr. in the country who agreed and he saved my life. i went from severely ill, wondering why i was not dying as i felt like it, to nearly completely normal. i have to mention my pain was so bad that 300mg oral morphine had me in a state were i needed all my willpower while i was walking 500 metres not to start screaming from the pain. it was an attempt to see wether anything else than oxycodone would help. luckily i made it to the pharmacy and got my new oxycodone. so i have pain which is intolerable on a morphine dose which would kill several people (it was immediate release).
    the only other thing that works is morphine injections, but with oxycodone i feel more energetic and clearer.

    so despite the word fatigue i didnt need any energy boost, i actually had too much excitation happening in my brain, destroying my immune system and not producing any endorphins or so little that my body felt like it had been smashed and every bone broken into tiny pieces.

    it is uconventional, many consider it dangerous, irresponsible or whatever but i must be the only case i ever heard of who went from more ill than his grandparents were when they had cancer (i saw how they had good moments and didnt suffer too much) to almost completely healthy.
    this was possible through me knowing and analyzing my body and brain chemistry and a dr. who listens and does whats good for the patient. he says that if someone asks for something and the explanation why he wants this specifically (and i explained it in language only a dr. would understand) maes sense, then he sees no reason not to try it. for most it probably might not work or make them worse but i knew what my brain was lacking and replacing the missing chemicals repaired my whole physiological system. otherwise i would be dead now.
    Your situation sounds terrible dude! I️ am glad you are in a better place now.

  23. This is an interesting read. People still log on here and argue science that holds very little real world application.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by rtmilburn View Post
    High stims do lead to increase in cortisol, yes. Excessive amounts? That's debatable! There is evidence that temporarily elevated cortisol that comes with a workout is healthy.
    post it up so we can read about it...

  25. Quote Originally Posted by USPlabsRep View Post
    post it up so we can read about it...
    google caffeine and cortisol... and the harder hitting stimulants wont influence cortisol even more..
    whats so hard to understand about it?
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