Adaptogens?

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  1. I think the tough thing to handle with adaptogens is that their effects may take a month or two to manifest. And even then, it may be very subtle.

    I'm beginning my second month of BaCognize (the patented extract at 250mg three times per day), and I've yet to notice much. I don't feel any acute anxiety relief. I will wait until a later date to assess its affect on working memory.

    As for ashwagandha and rhodiola, I have a bottle of Sensoril that I'll be using sooner or later, and Matt will be releasing a product with a rhodiola rosea/rhodiola crenulata blend.

    It is along the lines of adaptogens (I guess it would be labeled under TCM), but I prefer magnolia extract/lemon balm extract for anxiolytic effects (Non-TCM or non-adaptogen, I like theanine for this purpose).
    EvoMuse


  2. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Most of rhodiola's effects are actually chronic. Some are acute, e.g. the performance enhancement secondary to increased pain threshold. Others, like anti-fatigue/pro-mood effects, will take months to manifest.
    Good stuff. I figured most are after the performance enhancement which is why I recommended a dose pre.

    Any particular brand you trust for RR?

  3. Nobody for Cordyceps?
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    NOW brand Relora, Ashwagandha, and Rhodiola are all great and generally better priced than most other brands. NOW is always legit. There are certainly higher percentage extracts out there, but when I'm curious about an herb I start with NOW.

    Relora is great stuff although I don't think it is an adaptogen per se. MOA is supposedly somewhat valium-ish, upregulating GABA with one abstract claiming it boosts DHEA levels. I don't know how it works exactly, I just love it, lol.
    I have found a product that is 400mg per cap standardized to 3% Rosavins and 4% Salidroside. Is this good?

    There's also the NOW Rhodiola?

    Or Jarrow Rhodiola (5% rosavins)?

  5. I don't care for the NOW brand. It is 500mg and they claim 3:1, but it is very ineffective imo.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Most of rhodiola's effects are actually chronic. Some are acute, e.g. the performance enhancement secondary to increased pain threshold. Others, like anti-fatigue/pro-mood effects, will take months to manifest.
    How is this determined? I don't find it to be true based on my own use and anyone I know that takes it. The fatigue and mood benefits are the first noticeable to most people in a matter of days.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    Nobody for Cordyceps?
    I have heard nothing but good things about cordyceps but I didn't think they were considered an adaptogen. I do have a bottle of bulk powder that I am hoping is good quality as I hear the quality of the extract is very important with cordyceps. Cordygen gets nothing but great reviews and is cheap. I mostly hear that it's effects are related to endurance, so I am not sure how much of a boost they would give you in your day-to-day life (although I should have a good idea within the next few months).

  8. Quote Originally Posted by xhrr View Post
    Good stuff. I figured most are after the performance enhancement which is why I recommended a dose pre.

    Any particular brand you trust for RR?
    I use smartpowders bulk powder. Tastes awful but lasts forever

    Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    How is this determined? I don't find it to be true based on my own use and anyone I know that takes it. The fatigue and mood benefits are the first noticeable to most people in a matter of days.
    Determined based on scientific evidence. Especially with bacopa and rhodiola. Ashwaghanda produces more acute effects.
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  9. I know I might get flamed for this, but no one has mentioned Ecdy or Turk.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by The Engineer View Post
    I know I might get flamed for this, but no one has mentioned Ecdy or Turk.
    That's because they're worthless.
    PES
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Synapsin View Post

    That's because they're worthless.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSz7...e_gdata_player

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Determined based on scientific evidence. Especially with bacopa and rhodiola. Ashwaghanda produces more acute effects.
    Lol, ask a stupid question and...

  13. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Since I have actual time off this fall, I'll try to bring the sexy back as far as research goes...

    http://http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/7/5/421.pdf

    http://cms.herbalgram.org/herbalgram...f241bc9c9a5316

    And yes, some of those studies kinda suck, but I try to look at the big picture.

    In general, smaller doses of RR will increase energy/alertness while larger doses are sedating. What those "doses" are is dependent upon the extract percentages, extract ratios and individual sensitivities. It took me quite a while to pin down what brand and dose to use for my purposes..but bottom line is that RR works and is fairly well researched for an herb.
    I can get Rhodiola from a herb shop and it is 400mg standardized to 3% Rosavins and 4% Salidroside. Worth a go?

    The man who sells the stuff, speaks highly of jiogulan also. I'm sure that's in ssv2 also

  14. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    I use smartpowders bulk powder. Tastes awful but lasts forever
    What dosing are you looking at ED? I was looking to add this to an 11-oxo run

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Alasel View Post
    I can get Rhodiola from a herb shop and it is 400mg standardized to 3% Rosavins and 4% Salidroside. Worth a go?

    The man who sells the stuff, speaks highly of jiogulan also. I'm sure that's in ssv2 also
    That is an interesting mix. Most ratios will be 3-4% Rosavins and 1-1.5% Salidrosides, but I have read conflicting studies that indicate the Salidroside is actually more beneficial.

    I sure as hell would be trying it, I know that. You should for us and let us know how it is since it is rare to find that ratio.

  16. Over the last couple weeks I've found that Rhodiola Rosea works great with improving my focus and energy (due to lack of sleep) when taken twice each day (morning/afternoon at 120 mg, 6 mg rosavins...Gaia brand). What would stack best with this to improve anxiety and memory? I've tried higher doses (750 mg of Sensoril brand) of Ashwagandha about a month ago but it seemed to increase my brain fog. However, I'm wondering now if maybe my dose had been too high. I'm also looking at trying Bacopa. I'd like to find something that can be used long-term on a daily basis. Also, would Ginkgo Biloba add anything of value to the stack?

  17. Adaptogens are a funny thing OP. TBH, which one is better/best depends on the individual. For example, someone whom is usually super calm and relaxed, I wouldn't suggest them to take ashwagandha since ashwagandha would end up increasing their naturally calm and relaxed state.

    My suggestion would be to see what areas you feel like you need help in and then find the adaptogen that best fits into that.

  18. Ive really enjoyed using adaptogens during periods of high stress and high volume/intensity training.

    Ashwaganda, Bacopa, Relora, Rhodiola and Ecdy have all seemed to work fairly well for me. I miss the E-Bol products, those were some of my favorite non hormonals.

    Ashwaganda and Bacopa can be found in our fat burner Accelerant.
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  19. Quote Originally Posted by SwolenONE View Post
    Ive really enjoyed using adaptogens during periods of high stress and high volume/intensity training.

    Ashwaganda, Bacopa, Relora, Rhodiola and Ecdy have all seemed to work fairly well for me. I miss the E-Bol products, those were some of my favorite non hormonals.

    Ashwaganda and Bacopa can be found in our fat burner Accelerant.
    Just so happens all you mentioned boost thyroid activity significantly. Plus a few other key ingredients. . To expensive to mass produce tho. Last I got quoted was over 17/unit my cost

  20. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Adaptogens are a funny thing OP. TBH, which one is better/best depends on the individual. For example, someone whom is usually super calm and relaxed, I wouldn't suggest them to take ashwagandha since ashwagandha would end up increasing their naturally calm and relaxed state.

    My suggestion would be to see what areas you feel like you need help in and then find the adaptogen that best fits into that.
    Well, I definitely need something to help keep me from feeling exhausted all day at work from too little sleep. It seems like Rhodiola would be best for that. However, I worry about the tolerance I keep hearing about if it's taken too long (not sure if that would be an issue though if I keep the dosage low). Second I need something to help anxiety. I've read that Bacopa and Ashwagandha can both help with that but I'm not sure which is better for anxiety (especially on a longterm basis).

  21. Quote Originally Posted by klind14 View Post
    Well, I definitely need something to help keep me from feeling exhausted all day at work from too little sleep. It seems like Rhodiola would be best for that. However, I worry about the tolerance I keep hearing about if it's taken too long (not sure if that would be an issue though if I keep the dosage low). Second I need something to help anxiety. I've read that Bacopa and Ashwagandha can both help with that but I'm not sure which is better for anxiety (especially on a longterm basis).
    Rhodiola and I recall American ginseng (panax quinquefoliumas) well if you're lacking in energy, but if your underlying issue is simply not getting enough sleep, these things will only help prolong the period you have before you crash. Ashwagandha has a calming effect so if you especially take it before bed, it tends to get more quality sleep out of the sleep you are getting but if you are going on long stints where you are getting very little sleep regularly, that's just eventually going to catch up to you.

    For anxiety in general, ashwagandha is good for that. Mind you, different ashwagandha extracts have different feels so you may also want to play with different ones to see which one fits your needs the best. Honestly though, I think Relora might be better for anxiety though it will take a few uses for the effects to settle in.

    How many hours of sleep are you getting? Do you give yourself enough time for sleep but just generally easily awoken/restless? If it's the latter, TBH, I would use some GABA, 5-HTP, and ashwagandha together.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Rhodiola and I recall American ginseng (panax quinquefoliumas) well if you're lacking in energy, but if your underlying issue is simply not getting enough sleep, these things will only help prolong the period you have before you crash. Ashwagandha has a calming effect so if you especially take it before bed, it tends to get more quality sleep out of the sleep you are getting but if you are going on long stints where you are getting very little sleep regularly, that's just eventually going to catch up to you.

    For anxiety in general, ashwagandha is good for that. Mind you, different ashwagandha extracts have different feels so you may also want to play with different ones to see which one fits your needs the best. Honestly though, I think Relora might be better for anxiety though it will take a few uses for the effects to settle in.

    How many hours of sleep are you getting? Do you give yourself enough time for sleep but just generally easily awoken/restless? If it's the latter, TBH, I would use some GABA, 5-HTP, and ashwagandha together.
    Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by klind14 View Post
    Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.
    Rhodiola will be good for that as well. I started taking it about 6 years ago when my first was born and it really helped with the lack of sleep and allowing the sleep I did get, to be more productive. I also added bocapa and ashwaganda, but the effects are very subtle.

    Aniracetam is fantastic for anxiety as it is an anxiolytic. It should be taken with a choline source and fatty foods. It isn't an adaptogen, but if you are traveling down this road, no reason you couldn't look into noots.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by klind14 View Post
    Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.
    For you, I think ashwagandha + GABA + 5-HTP before bed (30-60 minutes before bed) will work well without making you feel like you've been drugged (so you would be able to get up to burp the newborn, change diapers, etc. and have an easier time falling back to sleep). I would start off easy with the ashwagandha (1.5% extracts I would use around 400-500 mg's, sensoril I would use 125 mg) to assess, GABA I would stick with 500 mg- 1 gram but start with 500 mg first, 5-HTP I would start off with 50 mg and no more than 100 mg to start. These supplements are pretty inexpensive and a bottle of each goes a long way. Personally I trust Jarrow, Solaray, and Life Extension.

    Something to consider: 5-HTP should be cycled IMO since it does affect serotonin a fair bit. Ashwagandha is pretty safe to take year round. GABA is pretty safe to take regularly but you do tend to build up tolerance to it.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by klind14 View Post
    Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.
    Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    For you, I think ashwagandha + GABA + 5-HTP before bed (30-60 minutes before bed) will work well without making you feel like you've been drugged (so you would be able to get up to burp the newborn, change diapers, etc. and have an easier time falling back to sleep). I would start off easy with the ashwagandha (1.5% extracts I would use around 400-500 mg's, sensoril I would use 125 mg) to assess, GABA I would stick with 500 mg- 1 gram but start with 500 mg first, 5-HTP I would start off with 50 mg and no more than 100 mg to start. These supplements are pretty inexpensive and a bottle of each goes a long way. Personally I trust Jarrow, Solaray, and Life Extension.
    Power to Sleep-by Irwin Naturals you try kissadookie and my recommend let us know. BET you like Power to Sleep my bro
    "To your wife you should kiss try today"-Touey

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  26. Quote Originally Posted by Touey View Post
    Power to Sleep-by Irwin Naturals you try kissadookie my recommend let us know. BET you like Power to Sleep my bro
    I might give it a try after my current ArA run and when it's time to cycle off 5-HTP I've always wanted to try some lemon balm

  27. Bacopa + Gotu Kola in the morning, Ashwagandha an hour or two before bed has been great for me. RR has been tough to pin down a dosage and the effects are too variable for my tastes.

    To fight fatigue, Korean/red ginseng has also been great.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    Bacopa + Gotu Kola in the morning, Ashwagandha an hour or two before bed has been great for me. RR has been tough to pin down a dosage and the effects are too variable for my tastes.

    To fight fatigue, Korean/red ginseng has also been great.
    Is there a good adaptogen all in one product out there. I liked ebol but way too pricey.
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  29. Gaia Stress Response is really good.

  30. There are lots of them. I got a free trial of Adapt 232..it's a European made supp. Nice energy, mood boost etc.

    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size: 2 capsules
    Servings Per Container: 3
    Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
    Adapt 232 Proprietary Blend
    Rhodiola rosea (root)
    Eleutherococcus senticosus (root)
    Schisandra chinensis (fruit) 1,750 mg †
    † Daily Value not established

  31. Quote Originally Posted by bioman View Post
    There are lots of them. I got a free trial of Adapt 232..it's a European made supp. Nice energy, mood boost etc.

    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size: 2 capsules
    Servings Per Container: 3
    Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
    Adapt 232 Proprietary Blend
    Rhodiola rosea (root)
    Eleutherococcus senticosus (root)
    Schisandra chinensis (fruit) 1,750 mg †
    † Daily Value not established

    All 3 of those are great adaptogens, but you need the extracts. These are just the raw roots and fruit, which at a paltry <2g is not going to do much of anything
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

  32. Quote Originally Posted by klind14 View Post
    Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.

    FWIW I just got NOW ashwagandha, NOW relora, and ON Melatonin a few weeks ago. The combo of the three puts me out fast. I was trying to find something that would make me not need sleeping pills every night. I was on 25mg diphenhydramine (1 benedryl) per night, and 1mg estazolam 2-4 nights per week.

    I was just trying to get myself to need less of the diphenhydramine and estazolam, but to my surprise the combo of Ashwagandha, Relora, and Melatonin have completely replaced them. I take the Relora and Ashwagandha together 1-2 hours before bed, and then I take the Melatonin about 30 min before bed. The only caution is that the ON melatonin is a higher dose than some people need (3mg per pill). My first night on it, I had insanely vivid dreams (not bad dreams, just really screwed up) and it wasn't pleasant. Now, I take 1/3 or 1/2 or a pill and have better results.

    Best,
    Tyler

  33. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Rhodiola will be good for that as well. I started taking it about 6 years ago when my first was born and it really helped with the lack of sleep and allowing the sleep I did get, to be more productive. I also added bocapa and ashwaganda, but the effects are very subtle.

    Aniracetam is fantastic for anxiety as it is an anxiolytic. It should be taken with a choline source and fatty foods. It isn't an adaptogen, but if you are traveling down this road, no reason you couldn't look into noots.
    I actually started with nootropics (tried pretty much every racetam and choline source over the last few years). Had some success but so far it seems like adaptogens are working even better for me.

  34. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    For you, I think ashwagandha + GABA + 5-HTP before bed (30-60 minutes before bed) will work well without making you feel like you've been drugged (so you would be able to get up to burp the newborn, change diapers, etc. and have an easier time falling back to sleep). I would start off easy with the ashwagandha (1.5% extracts I would use around 400-500 mg's, sensoril I would use 125 mg) to assess, GABA I would stick with 500 mg- 1 gram but start with 500 mg first, 5-HTP I would start off with 50 mg and no more than 100 mg to start. These supplements are pretty inexpensive and a bottle of each goes a long way. Personally I trust Jarrow, Solaray, and Life Extension.

    Something to consider: 5-HTP should be cycled IMO since it does affect serotonin a fair bit. Ashwagandha is pretty safe to take year round. GABA is pretty safe to take regularly but you do tend to build up tolerance to it.
    Do you know of a blend that contains most of those items? Theanine serene with relora looks pretty good (doesn't have 5-htp though).

  35. Quote Originally Posted by kisaj View Post
    Gaia Stress Response is really good.
    I really like the ingredients in gaia stress response (and have had great results with their rhodiola over the last few weeks) but was wondering if the dosage of everything except the rhodiola in that product was dosed high enough (or is there synergy between them such that the lower doses work well)?

  36. I've been taking Rhodiola for a week now and it may be the most effective supplement that I've ever taken in regards to stress/low energy levels. The first couple days it took a little getting used to the "stimulant" like effect after first taking it but then about an hour or so it levels out and you just feel good. I swear my mind hasn't felt this sharp since high school, and the anxiolytic effects are nice too. I have an extremely stressful job and this helps me to just cruise through my shifts without my mind getting all knotted up. Another weird effect is the energy boost, for instance I can be "tired" and yawning but at the same time feel like I could get up and accomplish anything.
    Remember why you started.

  37. Quote Originally Posted by klind14 View Post
    Do you know of a blend that contains most of those items? Theanine serene with relora looks pretty good (doesn't have 5-htp though).
    Abyss Unparalleled. You could get a bottle of GABA and use that with Abyss on nights you might need some extra help falling to sleep.

  38. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Abyss Unparalleled. You could get a bottle of GABA and use that with Abyss on nights you might need some extra help falling to sleep.
    It's a hit or miss product. I found it didn't really work for me. I was happier the next day, but it didn't really sedate me and the sleep wasn't all that good.

    Mass HGH on the other hand... HOLY CRAP! That's like someone just jizzed concentrated melatonin on your face!

  39. Quote Originally Posted by The Engineer View Post
    It's a hit or miss product. I found it didn't really work for me. I was happier the next day, but it didn't really sedate me and the sleep wasn't all that good.Mass HGH on the other hand... HOLY CRAP! That's like someone just jizzed concentrated melatonin on your face!
    That's why I suggested to get some extra GABA along with it for nights that one needs extra help falling to sleep.

  40. Quote Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    That's why I suggested to get some extra GABA along with it for nights that one needs extra help falling to sleep.
    Ah, sorry dude. That's not a bad idea.
  

  
 

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