Adaptogens?

[jimbuick]

That's because they're worthless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSz72I176tU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[kisaj]

Determined based on scientific evidence. Especially with bacopa and rhodiola. Ashwaghanda produces more acute effects.

Lol, ask a stupid question and...

 

[AndroRage]

Since I have actual time off this fall, I'll try to bring the sexy back as far as research goes...

http://http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/7/5/421.pdf

http://cms.herbalgram.org/herbalgram/issue56/article2333.html?ts=1382378909&signature=4776a636b283bf6f56f241bc9c9a5316

And yes, some of those studies kinda suck, but I try to look at the big picture.

In general, smaller doses of RR will increase energy/alertness while larger doses are sedating. What those "doses" are is dependent upon the extract percentages, extract ratios and individual sensitivities. It took me quite a while to pin down what brand and dose to use for my purposes..but bottom line is that RR works and is fairly well researched for an herb.

I can get Rhodiola from a herb shop and it is 400mg standardized to 3% Rosavins and 4% Salidroside. Worth a go?

The man who sells the stuff, speaks highly of jiogulan also. I'm sure that's in ssv2 also

 

[cubs1987]

I use smartpowders bulk powder. Tastes awful but lasts forever

What dosing are you looking at ED? I was looking to add this to an 11-oxo run

 

[kisaj]

I can get Rhodiola from a herb shop and it is 400mg standardized to 3% Rosavins and 4% Salidroside. Worth a go?

The man who sells the stuff, speaks highly of jiogulan also. I'm sure that's in ssv2 also

That is an interesting mix. Most ratios will be 3-4% Rosavins and 1-1.5% Salidrosides, but I have read conflicting studies that indicate the Salidroside is actually more beneficial.

I sure as hell would be trying it, I know that. You should for us and let us know how it is since it is rare to find that ratio.

 

[klind14]

Over the last couple weeks I've found that Rhodiola Rosea works great with improving my focus and energy (due to lack of sleep) when taken twice each day (morning/afternoon at 120 mg, 6 mg rosavins...Gaia brand). What would stack best with this to improve anxiety and memory? I've tried higher doses (750 mg of Sensoril brand) of Ashwagandha about a month ago but it seemed to increase my brain fog. However, I'm wondering now if maybe my dose had been too high. I'm also looking at trying Bacopa. I'd like to find something that can be used long-term on a daily basis. Also, would Ginkgo Biloba add anything of value to the stack?

 

[kissdadookie]

Adaptogens are a funny thing OP. TBH, which one is better/best depends on the individual. For example, someone whom is usually super calm and relaxed, I wouldn't suggest them to take ashwagandha since ashwagandha would end up increasing their naturally calm and relaxed state.

My suggestion would be to see what areas you feel like you need help in and then find the adaptogen that best fits into that.

 

[SwolenONE]

Ive really enjoyed using adaptogens during periods of high stress and high volume/intensity training.

Ashwaganda, Bacopa, Relora, Rhodiola and Ecdy have all seemed to work fairly well for me. I miss the E-Bol products, those were some of my favorite non hormonals.

Ashwaganda and Bacopa can be found in our fat burner Accelerant.

 

[RecompMan]

Ive really enjoyed using adaptogens during periods of high stress and high volume/intensity training.

Ashwaganda, Bacopa, Relora, Rhodiola and Ecdy have all seemed to work fairly well for me. I miss the E-Bol products, those were some of my favorite non hormonals.

Ashwaganda and Bacopa can be found in our fat burner Accelerant.

Just so happens all you mentioned boost thyroid activity significantly. Plus a few other key ingredients. . To expensive to mass produce tho. Last I got quoted was over 17/unit my cost

 

[klind14]

Adaptogens are a funny thing OP. TBH, which one is better/best depends on the individual. For example, someone whom is usually super calm and relaxed, I wouldn't suggest them to take ashwagandha since ashwagandha would end up increasing their naturally calm and relaxed state.

My suggestion would be to see what areas you feel like you need help in and then find the adaptogen that best fits into that.

Well, I definitely need something to help keep me from feeling exhausted all day at work from too little sleep. It seems like Rhodiola would be best for that. However, I worry about the tolerance I keep hearing about if it's taken too long (not sure if that would be an issue though if I keep the dosage low). Second I need something to help anxiety. I've read that Bacopa and Ashwagandha can both help with that but I'm not sure which is better for anxiety (especially on a longterm basis).

 

[kissdadookie]

Well, I definitely need something to help keep me from feeling exhausted all day at work from too little sleep. It seems like Rhodiola would be best for that. However, I worry about the tolerance I keep hearing about if it's taken too long (not sure if that would be an issue though if I keep the dosage low). Second I need something to help anxiety. I've read that Bacopa and Ashwagandha can both help with that but I'm not sure which is better for anxiety (especially on a longterm basis).

Rhodiola and I recall American ginseng (panax quinquefoliumas) well if you're lacking in energy, but if your underlying issue is simply not getting enough sleep, these things will only help prolong the period you have before you crash. Ashwagandha has a calming effect so if you especially take it before bed, it tends to get more quality sleep out of the sleep you are getting but if you are going on long stints where you are getting very little sleep regularly, that's just eventually going to catch up to you.

For anxiety in general, ashwagandha is good for that. Mind you, different ashwagandha extracts have different feels so you may also want to play with different ones to see which one fits your needs the best. Honestly though, I think Relora might be better for anxiety though it will take a few uses for the effects to settle in.

How many hours of sleep are you getting? Do you give yourself enough time for sleep but just generally easily awoken/restless? If it's the latter, TBH, I would use some GABA, 5-HTP, and ashwagandha together.

 

[klind14]

Rhodiola and I recall American ginseng (panax quinquefoliumas) well if you're lacking in energy, but if your underlying issue is simply not getting enough sleep, these things will only help prolong the period you have before you crash. Ashwagandha has a calming effect so if you especially take it before bed, it tends to get more quality sleep out of the sleep you are getting but if you are going on long stints where you are getting very little sleep regularly, that's just eventually going to catch up to you.

For anxiety in general, ashwagandha is good for that. Mind you, different ashwagandha extracts have different feels so you may also want to play with different ones to see which one fits your needs the best. Honestly though, I think Relora might be better for anxiety though it will take a few uses for the effects to settle in.

How many hours of sleep are you getting? Do you give yourself enough time for sleep but just generally easily awoken/restless? If it's the latter, TBH, I would use some GABA, 5-HTP, and ashwagandha together.

Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.

 

[kisaj]

Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.

Rhodiola will be good for that as well. I started taking it about 6 years ago when my first was born and it really helped with the lack of sleep and allowing the sleep I did get, to be more productive. I also added bocapa and ashwaganda, but the effects are very subtle.

Aniracetam is fantastic for anxiety as it is an anxiolytic. It should be taken with a choline source and fatty foods. It isn't an adaptogen, but if you are traveling down this road, no reason you couldn't look into noots.

 

[kissdadookie]

Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.

For you, I think ashwagandha + GABA + 5-HTP before bed (30-60 minutes before bed) will work well without making you feel like you've been drugged (so you would be able to get up to burp the newborn, change diapers, etc. and have an easier time falling back to sleep). I would start off easy with the ashwagandha (1.5% extracts I would use around 400-500 mg's, sensoril I would use 125 mg) to assess, GABA I would stick with 500 mg- 1 gram but start with 500 mg first, 5-HTP I would start off with 50 mg and no more than 100 mg to start. These supplements are pretty inexpensive and a bottle of each goes a long way. Personally I trust Jarrow, Solaray, and Life Extension.

Something to consider: 5-HTP should be cycled IMO since it does affect serotonin a fair bit. Ashwagandha is pretty safe to take year round. GABA is pretty safe to take regularly but you do tend to build up tolerance to it.

 

[Touey]

Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.

For you, I think ashwagandha + GABA + 5-HTP before bed (30-60 minutes before bed) will work well without making you feel like you've been drugged (so you would be able to get up to burp the newborn, change diapers, etc. and have an easier time falling back to sleep). I would start off easy with the ashwagandha (1.5% extracts I would use around 400-500 mg's, sensoril I would use 125 mg) to assess, GABA I would stick with 500 mg- 1 gram but start with 500 mg first, 5-HTP I would start off with 50 mg and no more than 100 mg to start. These supplements are pretty inexpensive and a bottle of each goes a long way. Personally I trust Jarrow, Solaray, and Life Extension.

Power to Sleep-by Irwin Naturals you try kissadookie and my recommend let us know. BET you like Power to Sleep my bro

 

[kissdadookie]

Power to Sleep-by Irwin Naturals you try kissadookie my recommend let us know. BET you like Power to Sleep my bro

I might give it a try after my current ArA run and when it's time to cycle off 5-HTP I've always wanted to try some lemon balm

 

[bioman]

Bacopa + Gotu Kola in the morning, Ashwagandha an hour or two before bed has been great for me. RR has been tough to pin down a dosage and the effects are too variable for my tastes.

To fight fatigue, Korean/red ginseng has also been great.

 

[fightbackhxc]

Bacopa + Gotu Kola in the morning, Ashwagandha an hour or two before bed has been great for me. RR has been tough to pin down a dosage and the effects are too variable for my tastes.

To fight fatigue, Korean/red ginseng has also been great.

Is there a good adaptogen all in one product out there. I liked ebol but way too pricey.

 

[kisaj]

Gaia Stress Response is really good.

 

[bioman]

There are lots of them. I got a free trial of Adapt 232..it's a European made supp. Nice energy, mood boost etc.

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 2 capsules
Servings Per Container: 3
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Adapt 232 Proprietary Blend
Rhodiola rosea (root)
Eleutherococcus senticosus (root)
Schisandra chinensis (fruit) 1,750 mg †
† Daily Value not established

 

[mr.cooper69]

There are lots of them. I got a free trial of Adapt 232..it's a European made supp. Nice energy, mood boost etc.

Supplement Facts
Serving Size: 2 capsules
Servings Per Container: 3
Amount Per Serving % Daily Value
Adapt 232 Proprietary Blend
Rhodiola rosea (root)
Eleutherococcus senticosus (root)
Schisandra chinensis (fruit) 1,750 mg †
† Daily Value not established

All 3 of those are great adaptogens, but you need the extracts. These are just the raw roots and fruit, which at a paltry <2g is not going to do much of anything

 

[tyrub42]

Thank you for the info. I'll definitely need to read up on American Ginseng and Relora since I'm not familiar with them. The lack of sleep the last six months or so has to do with my recently born son. He wakes multiple times each night and I'm a light sleeper (which isn't great for me but is for my wife because then I'm the one that gets up most of the time since I'm already awake from any noise he makes). So, until he starts getting into a more consistant sleep pattern, I'll be stuck with a shortened sleep schedule. I'm currently averaging around 5 or 6 hours each night.

FWIW I just got NOW ashwagandha, NOW relora, and ON Melatonin a few weeks ago. The combo of the three puts me out fast. I was trying to find something that would make me not need sleeping pills every night. I was on 25mg diphenhydramine (1 benedryl) per night, and 1mg estazolam 2-4 nights per week.

I was just trying to get myself to need less of the diphenhydramine and estazolam, but to my surprise the combo of Ashwagandha, Relora, and Melatonin have completely replaced them. I take the Relora and Ashwagandha together 1-2 hours before bed, and then I take the Melatonin about 30 min before bed. The only caution is that the ON melatonin is a higher dose than some people need (3mg per pill). My first night on it, I had insanely vivid dreams (not bad dreams, just really screwed up) and it wasn't pleasant. Now, I take 1/3 or 1/2 or a pill and have better results.

Best,
Tyler

 

[klind14]

Rhodiola will be good for that as well. I started taking it about 6 years ago when my first was born and it really helped with the lack of sleep and allowing the sleep I did get, to be more productive. I also added bocapa and ashwaganda, but the effects are very subtle.

Aniracetam is fantastic for anxiety as it is an anxiolytic. It should be taken with a choline source and fatty foods. It isn't an adaptogen, but if you are traveling down this road, no reason you couldn't look into noots.

I actually started with nootropics (tried pretty much every racetam and choline source over the last few years). Had some success but so far it seems like adaptogens are working even better for me.

 

[klind14]

For you, I think ashwagandha + GABA + 5-HTP before bed (30-60 minutes before bed) will work well without making you feel like you've been drugged (so you would be able to get up to burp the newborn, change diapers, etc. and have an easier time falling back to sleep). I would start off easy with the ashwagandha (1.5% extracts I would use around 400-500 mg's, sensoril I would use 125 mg) to assess, GABA I would stick with 500 mg- 1 gram but start with 500 mg first, 5-HTP I would start off with 50 mg and no more than 100 mg to start. These supplements are pretty inexpensive and a bottle of each goes a long way. Personally I trust Jarrow, Solaray, and Life Extension.

Something to consider: 5-HTP should be cycled IMO since it does affect serotonin a fair bit. Ashwagandha is pretty safe to take year round. GABA is pretty safe to take regularly but you do tend to build up tolerance to it.

Do you know of a blend that contains most of those items? Theanine serene with relora looks pretty good (doesn't have 5-htp though).

 

[klind14]

Gaia Stress Response is really good.

I really like the ingredients in gaia stress response (and have had great results with their rhodiola over the last few weeks) but was wondering if the dosage of everything except the rhodiola in that product was dosed high enough (or is there synergy between them such that the lower doses work well)?

 

[thegodfather]

I've been taking Rhodiola for a week now and it may be the most effective supplement that I've ever taken in regards to stress/low energy levels. The first couple days it took a little getting used to the "stimulant" like effect after first taking it but then about an hour or so it levels out and you just feel good. I swear my mind hasn't felt this sharp since high school, and the anxiolytic effects are nice too. I have an extremely stressful job and this helps me to just cruise through my shifts without my mind getting all knotted up. Another weird effect is the energy boost, for instance I can be "tired" and yawning but at the same time feel like I could get up and accomplish anything.

 

[kissdadookie]

Do you know of a blend that contains most of those items? Theanine serene with relora looks pretty good (doesn't have 5-htp though).

Abyss Unparalleled. You could get a bottle of GABA and use that with Abyss on nights you might need some extra help falling to sleep.

 

[Grayson]

Abyss Unparalleled. You could get a bottle of GABA and use that with Abyss on nights you might need some extra help falling to sleep.

It's a hit or miss product. I found it didn't really work for me. I was happier the next day, but it didn't really sedate me and the sleep wasn't all that good.

Mass HGH on the other hand... HOLY CRAP! That's like someone just jizzed concentrated melatonin on your face!

 

[kissdadookie]

It's a hit or miss product. I found it didn't really work for me. I was happier the next day, but it didn't really sedate me and the sleep wasn't all that good.Mass HGH on the other hand... HOLY CRAP! That's like someone just jizzed concentrated melatonin on your face!

That's why I suggested to get some extra GABA along with it for nights that one needs extra help falling to sleep.

 

[Grayson]

That's why I suggested to get some extra GABA along with it for nights that one needs extra help falling to sleep.

Ah, sorry dude. That's not a bad idea.

 

[klind14]

Abyss Unparalleled. You could get a bottle of GABA and use that with Abyss on nights you might need some extra help falling to sleep.

Great looking product. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[kisaj]

I really like the ingredients in gaia stress response (and have had great results with their rhodiola over the last few weeks) but was wondering if the dosage of everything except the rhodiola in that product was dosed high enough (or is there synergy between them such that the lower doses work well)?

Yes- GAIA is a top notch brand and everything they put out is good. It is the blend and the quality of the ingredients that make it work as well. There is a reason that their 240mg and ratio % is stronger than others at 500mg.

 

[klind14]

Yes- GAIA is a top notch brand and everything they put out is good. It is the blend and the quality of the ingredients that make it work as well. There is a reason that their 240mg and ratio % is stronger than others at 500mg.

You're right. Even though their ratios seem a lot less than other brands, their quality must be better (basing this on how well their rhodiola rosea is working for me versus two unsuccessful attempts using the herb produced by other brands). In fact, it was a comment you previously made about them that got me to give it a third and final attempt (and for that, I owe you a big thank you). So, I'll give their stress response product a try after I run out of my current bottle of Rhodiola Rosea. That should work well for my daytime stress/anxiety and continue to help with my lack of sleep since it contains both Rhodiola Rosea and Ashwagandha (plus a few other herbs).

 

[kissdadookie]

Ah, sorry dude. That's not a bad idea.

It's all good. LoL.

 

[kisaj]

Awesome! I really like that you can go online and pull the lab for your bottle to see the ingredient profile and testing done. It is a cool feature.

 

[Beau]

Mass HGH on the other hand... HOLY CRAP! That's like someone just jizzed concentrated melatonin on your face!

So, based on your description, apparently it is a transdermal???

 

[klind14]

Awesome! I really like that you can go online and pull the lab for your bottle to see the ingredient profile and testing done. It is a cool feature.

Yeah, that is pretty cool. I immediately did that when I received the Rhodiola Rosea.

Since the dosages are lower in the Gaia Stress Response (but with a higher quality), do you see tolerance eventually developing to the product? Or would it be something that should be safe and effective for long-term use (especially for those of us that are easily stressed out on a daily basis due to life and job obligations)?

 

[pyrobatt]

Cordeyceps are worth looking into.

 

[kisaj]

Yeah, that is pretty cool. I immediately did that when I received the Rhodiola Rosea.

Since the dosages are lower in the Gaia Stress Response (but with a higher quality), do you see tolerance eventually developing to the product? Or would it be something that should be safe and effective for long-term use (especially for those of us that are easily stressed out on a daily basis due to life and job obligations)?

Brotha, my life is freakishly stressful with my career and then obviously normal stress from young kids, family, bills, etc... I have a full mental system and routine that keeps me grounded- as well as the added supplements. With that being said, I can attest to the ability of several supplements to help me as part of the overall picture and have done so for many years. In short- yes the ingredient profile can help over the long term, but they are only part of trying to reduce stress and clear anxiety and mental fog.

I will say that TRT is where I started- just for complete transparency.

 

[klind14]

Brotha, my life is freakishly stressful with my career and then obviously normal stress from young kids, family, bills, etc... I have a full mental system and routine that keeps me grounded- as well as the added supplements. With that being said, I can attest to the ability of several supplements to help me as part of the overall picture and have done so for many years. In short- yes the ingredient profile can help over the long term, but they are only part of trying to reduce stress and clear anxiety and mental fog.

I will say that TRT is where I started- just for complete transparency.

I understand they only play a part but I'm hoping they at least help get me started on developing a system and routine of my own. I'd like to thank everyone (but especially you and kissdadookie) for their help and input. I really appreciate it.

 

[kisaj]

For sure. Adaptogens and noots are near and dear to my heart, so I love to discuss them.

Good luck to you.

 

[tristen22001]

I've tried lower doses of Rhodiola (Gaia Herbs) and it worked at first (week or so) but stopped providing energy after that. I switched to Eclectic Institute a couple days ago and that seems to be working better (provides a real sense of calm). My only concern is that the dosage is much higher at 500 mg. Does anyone see a problem with taking this twice each day (morning and afternoon) or would tolerance/irritability quickly develop? As a side note, I'm taking this with Bacopa.

 

[kisaj]

I've taken Rhodiola everyday for about 8 years with no issues and never have felt a tolerance build up. I've tried numerous brands and always come back to Gaia.

 

[tristen22001]

I've taken Rhodiola everyday for about 8 years with no issues and never have felt a tolerance build up. I've tried numerous brands and always come back to Gaia.

Do you think that lack of tolerance build up might be due to Gaia's lower dosage (and that higher dosage products like Eclectic Institute would cause tolerance)?

 

[kissdadookie]

I've tried lower doses of Rhodiola (Gaia Herbs) and it worked at first (week or so) but stopped providing energy after that. I switched to Eclectic Institute a couple days ago and that seems to be working better (provides a real sense of calm). My only concern is that the dosage is much higher at 500 mg. Does anyone see a problem with taking this twice each day (morning and afternoon) or would tolerance/irritability quickly develop? As a side note, I'm taking this with Bacopa.

There shouldn't be much if any tolerance issues with adaptogens. The purpose of adaptogens is to help you body adapt to stress and create balance. So they are not meant to subdue or excite your body past a normal balanced level. So if you take these things going by most label directions, you should be ok and no real cycling on or off should be needed.

Also keep in mind, different brands may have different levels of extraction or extracting for completely different things.

 

[Grayson]

No one's mentioned shilajit?

 

[kisaj]

Do you think that lack of tolerance build up might be due to Gaia's lower dosage (and that higher dosage products like Eclectic Institute would cause tolerance)?

I may not be understanding what you mean by tolerance with regards to your experience. Rhodiola isn't going to make you feel like you took a stimulant other than the beginning when you aren't used to it. It provides a general balanced energy level and helps deal with stress. Don't take rhodiola expecting it to act like a stimulant or pwo.

Also, cortisol is a bad thing when it is high. Rhodiola helps combat that. It is a wonderful supplement that I think anyone would benefit from adding in.

 

[tristen22001]

I may not be understanding what you mean by tolerance with regards to your experience. Rhodiola isn't going to make you feel like you took a stimulant other than the beginning when you aren't used to it. It provides a general balanced energy level and helps deal with stress. Don't take rhodiola expecting it to act like a stimulant or pwo.

Also, cortisol is a bad thing when it is high. Rhodiola helps combat that. It is a wonderful supplement that I think anyone would benefit from adding in.

Okay, I think I understand now. Based on what you and kissdadookie are saying, it provides energy at first because it's trying to create a balance (with me being so tired in the morning). However, once it's created that balance, I would no longer feel that initial energy but also wouldn't feel tired all day either (i.e. it's balanced things out). So, when people talk about developing a tolerance to Rhodiola, what's really happening is that they've reached that balance and are no longer feeling that initial energy. Therefore, to maintain that balance, it would be beneficial to keep taking Rhodiola on a daily basis. Is that correct? If so, would it be better to take a product that provides the minimal amount of Rhodiola required to maintain that balance (like the Gaia brand...versus the Eclectic brand)?

 

[kisaj]

Yes, that is what I am saying. As far as the question on what amount or brand, that is a tough one to answer. I think once you try different brands and amounts, you should be able to better determine what works best. See, taking 500mg for me makes me very lethargic. I need less, so I started researching and trying brands that offer 250mg per serv (3:1) and just settled on Gaia. Is it better than others at that dose- I don't know. I just like the lab reports, know it works, and hits the price point I am comfortable with since I plan to take this forever.

I will add that if you like that initial boost, then maybe it could be cycled. For me, I like an overall balance and sustained energy without ups and downs. There are many products that can provide that strong up boost and if it is ever desired, then I take that.

 

[tristen22001]

Yes, that is what I am saying. As far as the question on what amount or brand, that is a tough one to answer. I think once you try different brands and amounts, you should be able to better determine what works best. See, taking 500mg for me makes me very lethargic. I need less, so I started researching and trying brands that offer 250mg per serv (3:1) and just settled on Gaia. Is it better than others at that dose- I don't know. I just like the lab reports, know it works, and hits the price point I am comfortable with since I plan to take this forever.

I will add that if you like that initial boost, then maybe it could be cycled. For me, I like an overall balance and sustained energy without ups and downs. There are many products that can provide that strong up boost and if it is ever desired, then I take that.

Thank you for helping clear that up for me.