DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Somebody 'splain this to me ...

    Okay ... the lawyers in this thread have already speculated that the formula has been mass spec'd by someone (FDA?) and that is why the lawsuit has been filed ... because an analog of amphetamine has been found in it.

    Really? So do tell ... the FDA is holding, in their hot little hands, a mass spec that says CRAZE has SPEED in it ... and they haven't ordered an immediate "cease and desist" on it's sale? Meaning, of course - that the FDA is allowing THOUSANDS of ignorant body builders (we're kids, you know - incapable of making decisions on our own) ... allowing thousands of bodybuilders to continue to endanger their health?

    That doesn't add up.

    I think this is just more bull**** from lawyers and the FDA.

    **** lawyers - **** the FDA. Yeah - I know some people who read this are lawyers - sorry man, but I'd rather have a sister working in a brothel than a brother as a lawyer. TOO MANY LAWYERS. They are EVERYWHERE and they **** things up in a seriously horrendous way. Even when I was in the military in the Afghan and Iraq war - had to get permission from a lawyer somewhere in the rear (where he was safe and sound) just to fire on a hostile target. Of course - the guys shooting at ME didn't have to consult lawyers.

    **** Lawyers.
    Where did they say speed was in the product? Also this isnt the FDA, this is the same guy that sued usplabs.
    E-Pharm Rep... PM me with any questions or concerns


  2. did the guy who sued usplabs win?
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by freezito View Post
    did the guy who sued usplabs win?
    Lawsuit in progress. He's won payouts from BSN before (false marketing) but most lawsuits are still open.

    We have no real reason to believe the FDA is believed, so don't go ****ting on the FDA before anyone knows if they are "sitting" on test results.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    **** lawyers - **** the FDA. Yeah - I know some people who read this are lawyers - sorry man, but I'd rather have a sister working in a brothel than a brother as a lawyer. TOO MANY LAWYERS. They are EVERYWHERE and they **** things up in a seriously horrendous way. Even when I was in the military in the Afghan and Iraq war - had to get permission from a lawyer somewhere in the rear (where he was safe and sound) just to fire on a hostile target. Of course - the guys shooting at ME didn't have to consult lawyers.

    **** Lawyers.
    Since when does your master sarge = lawyer? You must have been in two different wars than I.

    Let's not harp on the lawyers.. trust me.. you will need one some day. It is the people that use the lawyers in a scavy way.
    The Historic PES Legend

  5. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Somebody 'splain this to me ...

    Okay ... the lawyers in this thread have already speculated that the formula has been mass spec'd by someone (FDA?) and that is why the lawsuit has been filed ... because an analog of amphetamine has been found in it.

    Really? So do tell ... the FDA is holding, in their hot little hands, a mass spec that says CRAZE has SPEED in it ... and they haven't ordered an immediate "cease and desist" on it's sale? Meaning, of course - that the FDA is allowing THOUSANDS of ignorant body builders (we're kids, you know - incapable of making decisions on our own) ... allowing thousands of bodybuilders to continue to endanger their health?

    That doesn't add up.

    I think this is just more bull**** from lawyers and the FDA.

    **** lawyers - **** the FDA. Yeah - I know some people who read this are lawyers - sorry man, but I'd rather have a sister working in a brothel than a brother as a lawyer. TOO MANY LAWYERS. They are EVERYWHERE and they **** things up in a seriously horrendous way. Even when I was in the military in the Afghan and Iraq war - had to get permission from a lawyer somewhere in the rear (where he was safe and sound) just to fire on a hostile target. Of course - the guys shooting at ME didn't have to consult lawyers.

    **** Lawyers.
    Haha, cool your jets man or cut back on the uppers. Life is too short. Didn't say FDA spun it, I said any legit lawfirm would have done due diligence before filing including mass spec. If not and they are wrong, they will be writing checks for costs incurred by both sides.

  6. The DMAA lawsuit against USPLabs basically tries to make the claim that DMAA is too close to amphetamine so I wouldn't be so sure that this firm knows what it is doing.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by VaughnTrue View Post
    the lawsuit is real. DS wouldnt sue themselves in hopes of more sales. retarded theory is retarded.

    u cant sue yourself for fun. well you can make anything up but you cant get a reputable law firm to go along with such a game and generate actual court documents as have been displayed for this case.

    not only is it retarded but its uber-retarded
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  8. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Somebody 'splain this to me ...

    Okay ... the lawyers in this thread have already speculated that the formula has been mass spec'd by someone (FDA?) and that is why the lawsuit has been filed ... because an analog of amphetamine has been found in it.

    Really? So do tell ... the FDA is holding, in their hot little hands, a mass spec that says CRAZE has SPEED in it ... and they haven't ordered an immediate "cease and desist" on it's sale? Meaning, of course - that the FDA is allowing THOUSANDS of ignorant body builders (we're kids, you know - incapable of making decisions on our own) ... allowing thousands of bodybuilders to continue to endanger their health?s.

    If the FDA had such a thing then you would not know about it. Any speculation that they have such a thing would be mere speculation. And the FDA would NOT be working hand in hand with a civil attorney so just forget about that theory

    If they did have a thing then they would not immediately proceed with a raid or a cease and desist letter. They would investigate and build a case and keep it under wraps until they are ready to act
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  9. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    The DMAA lawsuit against USPLabs basically tries to make the claim that DMAA is too close to amphetamine so I wouldn't be so sure that this firm knows what it is doing.

    that is mentioned in the lawsuit but it is not the basis of the lawsuit. the basis i think was that they deceived customers into thinking they were buying a natural product when in fact it was synthetic (lame if you ask me)
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    If the FDA had such a thing then you would not know about it. Any speculation that they have such a thing would be mere speculation. And the FDA would NOT be working hand in hand with a civil attorney so just forget about that theoryIf they did have a thing then they would not immediately proceed with a raid or a cease and desist letter. They would investigate and build a case and keep it under wraps until they are ready to act
    This. Agree completely. FDA usually remains autonomous from civil litigation. . . Unless maybe there is a close relationship between the attorney and the investigator. The FDA is a government entity and, as such, perhaps moves pretty slowly unless there is an imminent threat of bodily harm to the public at large. They also sometimes have larger agendas and perhaps could use cases like this to advance their larger agendas. Who knows with FDA.
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    u cant sue yourself for fun. well you can make anything up but you cant get a reputable law firm to go along with such a game and generate actual court documents as have been displayed for this case.

    not only is it retarded but its uber-retarded

    LOL exactly. "uber" is the correct prefix here, I agree.


    Class action lawsuits like these are terrible. They go after any/all companies who are prospering, and they include draft guidance nonsense that hasn't become law yet, to make the companies look bad.


    NTG = uber-retarded.
    Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals Representative Manager

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    u cant sue yourself for fun. well you can make anything up but you cant get a reputable law firm to go along with such a game and generate actual court documents as have been displayed for this case.

    not only is it retarded but its uber-retarded
    By far the most intelligent thing said in this thread.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions
    Revolutionizing Sports Nutrition, One Product At A Time
    antihero [@] SeriousNutritionSolutions.com

  13. Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

    But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

    When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

    That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

    Why aren't they?

  14. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

    But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

    When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

    That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

    Why aren't they?
    I agree with pretty much everything said here except for one thing: Whats to keep supplement companies from misleading you or lying about what is on labels? Even if you are supremely knowledgeable about ingredients things like proprietary blends keep someone from knowing the amounts of the product they are consuming. If a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does I have no problem with them getting in trouble.

    For the rest of it I agree. People should be allowed to make the decisions they want.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

    But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

    When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

    That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

    Why aren't they?

    when the rules involve commerce in said substances then i can understand. any rule which specifically states its illegal for an individual to use those substances though I think its wrong.

    anyway, this is sort of getting off the subject. the subject here involves alleged mislabeling of a supplement first and foremost
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  16. [QUOTE=Geoforce;3314331]I agree with pretty much everything said here except for one thing: Whats to keep supplement companies from misleading you or lying about what is on labels? Even if you are supremely knowledgeable about ingredients things like proprietary blends keep someone from knowing the amounts of the product they are consuming. If a company has a product that doesn't contain what they say it does I have no problem with them getting in trouble.
    QUOTE]

    I don't have a problem with a company that LIES about what's in it's product gettng into trouble. I might be behind the curve here - and this thread is a bit jacked up because I read somewhere in it that DS was being accused of inserting an analog of amphetemine into the product. Sure - I have a problem with a company lying about something like that but I don't have a problem with a company putting amphetemine into a product as long as they state so on the label of ingredients. They can put gasoline in it for all I care - as long as it's labelled so I know to stay away from it.

    I don't a government telling me that a pre-workout with gasoline in it might be a bad idea for me personally.

    People ought to be able to make up their own mind on whether or not they want to use a product with a certain ingredient.

  17. [QUOTE=HondaV65;3314376]
    Quote Originally Posted by Geoforce View Post
    I

    I don't have a problem with a company that LIES about what's in it's product gettng into trouble. I might be behind the curve here - and this thread is a bit jacked up because I read somewhere in it that DS was being accused of inserting an analog of amphetemine into the product. Sure - I have a problem with a company lying about something like that but I don't have a problem with a company putting amphetemine into a product as long as they state so on the label of ingredients. They can put gasoline in it for all I care - as long as it's labelled so I know to stay away from it.

    I don't a government telling me that a pre-workout with gasoline in it might be a bad idea for me personally.

    People ought to be able to make up their own mind on whether or not they want to use a product with a certain ingredient.

    your scenario would work fine if the world were full of stable, intelligent, and well informed consumers
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  18. I think it may be unfair to assume perfect information for ANY consumer. I would be knowledgeable enough to stay safe when it comes to supplement buying, but many wouldn't. Just like I wouldn't know anything about buying audio equipment or siding for my house, etc. this is a very specialized sort of knowledge and the protections are meant to protect you from being taken advantage of because you just can't learn everything. I think some stuff could/should be reintroduced to the market with some caveats (age restriction, maybe some acknowledgement of safety risk) but the way it used to be was bound to blow up in our faces. People could buy a PH and based on the purchase alone (and of course, the salesman selling it) the buyer would never know to do research, buy PCT, etc. Do you always ask your car mechanic exactly what part or what brand, etc he used to fix your car? Well you might think the salesman at G N C would be trustworthy in much the same way. But that's not the way it is.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    Okay - I was going off the OP's first post where he states that "FDA action is immenent". If the FDA isn't involved then, cool.

    But when it comes to these "prohibitionist" laws against certain substances - I don't understand why adults can't see that the government is assigning them the status of a little child. Anyone who has a kid has probably given them "rules" to live by ... such as your kid isn't allowed to drink alcohol, or eat too much candy, or play ball in the house. We do this to protect kids from their lack of knowledge and wisdom. Bill Cosby used to refer to kids as "brain damaged people".

    When the government says you can't have a certain supplement ... or smoke a joint ... they're assigning you a "rule" just as you would your child - because they don't think you are capable of making good decisions about your health.

    That ought to be offensive to people. I don't care what the prohibitionist rule is - it ought to offend adult human beings and the pervs who push these laws ought to voted out of office.

    Why aren't they?
    Yep, Republicans and right wing Christians want to dictate how we live our lives. If you know anything about law, you certainly know how very basic and fundamental rights in this country were quickly eroded by Bush and his appointments to the Supreme Court. The average individual has absolutely no idea the impact GWB and his regime had on this country predicated upon fear and imposing Christian norms on those heathens who believe they should have the power to do with their body as they please. Privacy rights are gone. Government intrusion into our homes, offices and life is wide open now. This mentality bleeds over into all areas of life including what substances we should put in our bodies. Thank big Pharma partly for this, but even more us the mentality that pervades the moral right of their belief that people are basically idiots and need to be told how to live, what to place in their bodies and what to do with their bodies.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    The basis is threefold. First they state they have reason to believe the product contains amphetamine. Second they claim Dendrobex and Citramine are not dietary ingredients. They also states it's a drug because the product claims to affect the structure or function of the body. Third, they claim that even if these two ingredients (aside from amphetamine) are not a drug, they are certainly new dietary ingredients and DS should have submitted a NDI notification. As a final note they state they have reason to believe Craze does not meet current GMP regulations.

    I don't understand how anyone can be against this lawsuit. These are serious allegations and deserve proper attention.
    I think he is referring to the DMAA lawsuit here.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    The basis is threefold. First they state they have reason to believe the product contains amphetamine. Second they claim Dendrobex and Citramine are not dietary ingredients. They also states it's a drug because the product claims to affect the structure or function of the body. Third, they claim that even if these two ingredients (aside from amphetamine) are not a drug, they are certainly new dietary ingredients and DS should have submitted a NDI notification. As a final note they state they have reason to believe Craze does not meet current GMP regulations.

    I don't understand how anyone can be against this lawsuit. These are serious allegations and deserve proper attention.

    other than the issue of an amphetamine like compound being in the product that is not listed on the label i think the rest of the charges are kind of frivolous then. Frivolous in that similar charges could be made against 90 percent of sports supplement products and has little to do with safety or being deceptive to the consumer
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  22. Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    . If you know anything about law, you certainly know how very basic and fundamental rights in this country were quickly eroded by Busch and his appointments to the Supreme Court. The average individual has absolutely no idea the impact GHB and his regime had on this country.

    Busch? GHB?

    Sounds like were ready for a party!!!
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    You're correct. I didn't properly read the post Patrick was responding to and supposed it was about the Craze lawsuit.
    actually i was referring to the craze lawsuit
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    Busch? GHB?

    Sounds like were ready for a party!!!
    Always. Maybe to many parties as evident by my inability to spell. Typing on iPhone can be dangerous if you don't look back over what you wrote.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by 996ttelise View Post
    Yep, Republicans and right wing Christians want to dictate how we live our lives. If you know anything about law, you certainly know how very basic and fundamental rights in this country were quickly eroded by Busch and his appointments to the Supreme Court. The average individual has absolutely no idea the impact GHB and his regime had on this country predicated upon fear and imposing Christian norms on those heathens who believe they should have the power to do with their body as they please. Privacy rights are gone. Government intrusion into our homes, offices and life is wide open now. This mentality bleeds over into all areas of life including what substances we should put in our bodies. Thank big Pharma partly for this, but even more us the mentality that pervades the moral right of their belief that people are basically idiots and need to be told how to live, what to place in their bodies and what to do with their bodies.
    You're kidding right ... what planet have you been on?

    Dimmocrits are just as guilty. Big Pharma? It was your boy "Big O" who cut a multi-million dollar deal with them to go along with the passage of ObamaCare - google it. Who is it that's forcing healthy people to buy health insurance - and then outlawing the only kind of insurance that makes economical sense to those people (major medical) ... oh that's right - it's the Dimmocrits.

    Who was it that advocated for the VChip in Televisions? Oh right - that was AlGore and the Dims. Who's the ones trying to tell you what kind of car you should buy? Oh right - Dims are. Who are the ones outlawing transfats in California? Hint - it's not Republicans. Who's the ones proposing taxes on sugary sodas? Hint - it's not Republicans.

    Bottom line here is BOTH political parties are pieces of **** and both are to blame. The fact that you blame one means you're drinking the kool aide - well, enjoy it until your chosen party bans it brother!

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    Busch? GHB?

    Sounds like were ready for a party!!!
    Ds craze has amphetamine or so they think. This saves me from having to use the shake and bake method to get mine!Lets take 7 scoops

    But seriously. FDA started pulling ephedrine back when I was younger for a short time.My mother got scared. Thankfully I out grew my lung problems. It was the only thing that helped. Now you have to buy it with an id. Clenburerol also was a widely avalible medication. Helped alot of people.
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/

  27. please please not another stupid political argument
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  28. and heavyd12 still sits at 1 post count...laughing...

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold
    please please not another stupid political argument
    Dont worry. Anywhos I love craze. Hope they keep the formula they have now.
    Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
    https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
    http://www.chaosandpain.com/

  30. Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    You're kidding right ... what planet have you been on?

    Dimmocrits are just as guilty. Big Pharma? It was your boy "Big O" who cut a multi-million dollar deal with them to go along with the passage of ObamaCare - google it. Who is it that's forcing healthy people to buy health insurance - and then outlawing the only kind of insurance that makes economical sense to those people (major medical) ... oh that's right - it's the Dimmocrits.

    Who was it that advocated for the VChip in Televisions? Oh right - that was AlGore and the Dims. Who's the ones trying to tell you what kind of car you should buy? Oh right - Dims are. Who are the ones outlawing transfats in California? Hint - it's not Republicans. Who's the ones proposing taxes on sugary sodas? Hint - it's not Republicans.

    Bottom line here is BOTH political parties are pieces of **** and both are to blame. The fact that you blame one means you're drinking the kool aide - well, enjoy it until your chosen party bans it brother!
    Haha, I used to represent drug companies and medical device companies and I can tell you they are scared to death of democrats being in power.

    The 4th amendment, privacy rights, Roe v. Wade, Shiavo right to do with body as please and forcing moral and Christian perceptions upon others is a conservative thought process. Liberals generally think more independently and are not so easy manipulated by fear tactics (GW's theme in practically every speech) and the need for rigid religious and moral structure. Did not expect you to understand. It's cool.

    People generally have no concept or understand that the most influential aspect of any president is the power to appoint Supreme Court justices and change the balance of the Supreme Court. Haha, Bush tried to appoint that severely unqualified Evangalist lady in return for the Evangelical vote that carried his election all in the name if eroding Roe v. Wade and permitting a higher level of government intrusion into our daily lives and decisions. Your frusteration in the supplement arena actually emanates from this pervassive philosophy.

    BTW, I am a health care lawyer that represented doctors, hospitals, drug and device companies for 12 years so I kind of get the political climate of our health care industry. I have also handled both sides of many class action lawsuits.
  

  
 

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