DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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  1. I am a long time craze user, & I think like most supplements.... after long term use, the body builds a tolerance. I have tried other newer pre workouts & always come back to craze because IMO nothing else gives me that awesome focus. I have tried the newer flavors & love them.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by rhino67jg View Post
    I am a long time craze user, & I think like most supplements.... after long term use, the body builds a tolerance. I have tried other newer pre workouts & always come back to craze because IMO nothing else gives me that awesome focus. I have tried the newer flavors & love them.
    There is a difference between great focus & energy and drug-like euphoria coupled with an anesthetic numbing sensation. Not to mention the incredibly hard "crash" so many users talked about with OG Craze (me being one of them). I take Adderall and don't experience a crash even close to what I did with OG Craze when it wears off. Plus it was difficult to build a tolerance to IMO, which just further adds to the mystery surrounding the whole thing. Synthetic drugs you tend to build a tolerance to but not so much with natural supplements. OG Craze definately had a drug-like feel to it, as so many that tried it have and can attest to.
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  3. I've never gotten the numbing sensation with original craze. I agree it does give a bit of a euphoric buzz similar to other stronger stimulants. I don't really get the crash from it though. Also, not sure what you mean about "natural" vs "synthetic" drugs. You can develop a tolerance to both just as easily. Caffeine is a great example. So is opium or codeine. Amphetamine is found naturally occuring as well. Regardless of whether its a plant extract or synthetic drug, the physiological effects are the same.
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  4. I may be in the minority, but I don't feel the difference between the OG and the newer version.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by blackjackcat View Post
    I may be in the minority, but I don't feel the difference between the OG and the newer version.
    You are in the minority then. However, it was honestly the absolute first batch so maybe you just missed it. Night and day though. Maybe you didn't shake the tub lol
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  6. I may be in the extreme minority. I have never noticed any sensation at all from taking any batch or flavor of Craze, except for heart palpitations and the feeling I'm about to have a heart attack.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by SpicedCider View Post
    I may be in the extreme minority. I have never noticed any sensation at all from taking any batch or flavor of Craze, except for heart palpitations and the feeling I'm about to have a heart attack.
    Yeah. I had like post nasal drip. Only on craze days. I would be trying to sleep and like I couldn't swallow enough to get it all out haha.
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  8. Never had any heart palpitations or anxiety from craze. Have felt that with other pre's. Sometimes I do notice trouble sleeping, even after taking craze @ 1:00 pm & going to sleep @ 10:00 pm. My mind some times just doesn't shut down.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post
    I've never gotten the numbing sensation with original craze. I agree it does give a bit of a euphoric buzz similar to other stronger stimulants. I don't really get the crash from it though. Also, not sure what you mean about "natural" vs "synthetic" drugs. You can develop a tolerance to both just as easily. Caffeine is a great example. So is opium or codeine. Amphetamine is found naturally occuring as well. Regardless of whether its a plant extract or synthetic drug, the physiological effects are the same.
    I should have said synthetic drugs that target nuerotransmitters, specifically many that are scheduled drugs due to dependence potential. I also should have said DSHEA compliant sports supplements. A lot of the discussion about the Craze case was whether or not what they were ALLEGEDLY spiking their supplement with was DSHEA compliant or how close the compound in question was, structurally, to Amphetamine. The legality of it all I guess you'd say.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by quigs View Post
    I've never gotten the numbing sensation with original craze. I agree it does give a bit of a euphoric buzz similar to other stronger stimulants. I don't really get the crash from it though. Also, not sure what you mean about "natural" vs "synthetic" drugs. You can develop a tolerance to both just as easily. Caffeine is a great example. So is opium or codeine. Amphetamine is found naturally occuring as well. Regardless of whether its a plant extract or synthetic drug, the physiological effects are the same.
    I didn't think I had to state as much, but one of the overlying tones to this entire thread has been DSHEA compliance and wheter or not Craze had been spiked with something that was not compliant. Another was the legality of the substance in question. We all know that opium, codeine, Aphetamnie, etc.... can be found in nature but they are also scheduled drugs by the DEA. Addictive substances (legal, controlled or illegal) almost always cause tolerance buildup. Yes, there are some natural substances that do as well, but they are legal to buy OTC in several forms, including dietary supplements. The part that really had me puzzled was that I was wanting to redose a LOT, like with something that has abuse potential, yet I wasn't developing a tolerance.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post

    I didn't think I had to state as much, but one of the overlying tones to this entire thread has been DSHEA compliance and wheter or not Craze had been spiked with something that was not compliant. Another was the legality of the substance in question. We all know that opium, codeine, Aphetamnie, etc.... can be found in nature but they are also scheduled drugs by the DEA. Addictive substances (legal, controlled or illegal) almost always cause tolerance buildup. Yes, there are some natural substances that do as well, but they are legal to buy OTC in several forms, including dietary supplements. The part that really had me puzzled was that I was wanting to redose a LOT, like with something that has abuse potential, yet I wasn't developing a tolerance.
    Weird that you never crashed from adderall. I crashed extremely hard from adderall, to the point where mid conversation I leaned my head back and was out.

    Correct.the thread was about dshea compliance first, legality second. However, the case was dismissed all the testing of the lots came back clean.

    Even PAs tests came back inconclusive from the first sample to the second, if I recall correctly.

    Outside of user reports I haven't seen any hard evidence making me think any different. I went through two tubs of the "og" craze and got drug tested twice for potential jobs without any issue.

    Id like to believe if it was an analog of a amphetamine that I'd fail the drug test our at least have a false positive.

    Just my thoughts
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    Weird that you never crashed from adderall. I crashed extremely hard from adderall, to the point where mid conversation I leaned my head back and was out.

    Correct.the thread was about dshea compliance first, legality second. However, the case was dismissed all the testing of the lots came back clean.

    Even PAs tests came back inconclusive from the first sample to the second, if I recall correctly.

    Outside of user reports I haven't seen any hard evidence making me think any different. I went through two tubs of the "og" craze and got drug tested twice for potential jobs without any issue.

    Id like to believe if it was an analog of a amphetamine that I'd fail the drug test our at least have a false positive.

    Just my thoughts
    Ok, first of all let me correct you as to what I actually posted.

    1) I never once claimed that I do not experience a crash from Adderall. I crash from Adderall every day, though I have figured out ways to greatly diminish it. I said the crash I experience with Adderall is not near as harsh as the crash I experienced with OG Craze. I'll also add that, outside of taking a Xanax (which I hate to take), there wasn't really a good way to "ease" into the hard crash I'd get hit with by Craze.

    2) I said that I believe OG Craze had a "drug-like" feel to it but never claimed it was or could be an amphetamine analouge or amphetamine-like substance. What I said was that a lot of the discussion about the Craze case was whether or not what they were (allegedly) spiking their supplement with was DSHEA compliant or how close the compound in question was, structurally, to Amphetamine.

    If you go back and read some of my more recent posts it's obvious I realize the case has been dismissed. I simply stated, "Well, I guess the mystery will never be solved" regarding what gave OG Craze its' insane psychotropic properties.

    I don't recall hearing of anyone failing a drug test while taking OG Craze, which would lead one to believe amphetamine analogues were not present. But just because the mystery substance in question wasn't something that shows up hot on a UA doesn't mean it is DSHEA compliant.

    You're one of several people that have claimed that you've noticed no difference between the old and new Craze. I find it so bizzare that there's tons of people that claim what both of us are saying: That there is either a huge, noticeable difference between the two or absolutely no difference at all. That's great that it works for you, but don't discount the hundreds of people that have claimed the same thing I am: That OG Craze had a very drug-like, euphoric feel to it and the new version does not.

    And while I understand the case was dismissed and DS never had a lot test "dirty", I'm a believer in the old adage that where there's smoke there's fire. Especially when you have so many people reporting the same results. Hell, maybe their whole "counterfit Craze" story is real after all. I HIGHLY DOUBT IT, but who knows.

    Last thought: I don't know about later samples, but I seem to recall P.A.'s test of the first sample he recieved showing very high amounts of N-Benzyl-2-Phenylethylamine. It wasn't too long after that he started getting letters in the mail from DS's attorney's basically telling him to cease and desist telling the (alleged) truth about their product. So I guess whatever P.A. knows (and I believe he knows exactly what went on) he'll probably take to the grave with him. Either that or have it as an interesting footnote when he finally writes his tell-all book, outing the rats and crooks that used him as a scapegoat back in the day.

  13. would love to hear from a ds rep on the ASADA testing that has apparently turned up a banned substance (and undeclared on the label)

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    Weird that you never crashed from adderall. I crashed extremely hard from adderall, to the point where mid conversation I leaned my head back and was out.

    Correct.the thread was about dshea compliance first, legality second. However, the case was dismissed all the testing of the lots came back clean.s

    I assume no one knows why the case was dismissed, or if its even dismissed for good. its likely that no amphetamine was found, and it was stupid for the plaintiff to assume it had amphetamines in the product in the first place

    my gut tells me that there still is legal interest in this product, insofar as figuring out what the actives really are and whether they are compliant.
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  15. Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    You are in the minority then. However, it was honestly the absolute first batch so maybe you just missed it. Night and day though. Maybe you didn't shake the tub lol
    I assume I had the first batch as I bought right when it was released. It blew all previous per-workuts out of the water, and still does. I also shake the tub each time. The only problem I have with it is taking it too close to going to sleep, going to sleep is difficult(but I have a problem with too much caffeine, too close to bedtime, interferring with sleep). I am not saying it wasn't spiked, I just have not notice the difference.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    I assume no one knows why the case was dismissed, or if its even dismissed for good. its likely that no amphetamine was found, and it was stupid for the plaintiff to assume it had amphetamines in the product in the first place

    my gut tells me that there still is legal interest in this product, insofar as figuring out what the actives really are and whether they are compliant.
    Im pretty sure there was no amphetamine as i took a urinalysis for my job about 4 hrs after consuming craze. Now i will say that im not sure what was in there, but batches after this whole thing started felt different to me. Maybe its all in my head though, who knows.
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  17. if someone snuck a strong MAOI in a product along with a phenethylamine derivative (not alpha-methylated like amphetamines are) then one could possibly acheive amphetamine like activity.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if someone snuck a strong MAOI in a product along with a phenethylamine derivative (not alpha-methylated like amphetamines are) then one could possibly acheive amphetamine like activity.
    Makes sense and plausible. Although to me it never felt amphetamine like im not skilled in this area so have no idea of the possible concoctions one could construct.
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  19. I would be curious for someone to hypothesise as to why the first tub I used felt like I had used a lidocaine throat spray and four subsequent tubs didn't.

    That is the only reason I am still interested in this thread which appears to be going nowhere fast.
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  20. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I would be curious for someone to hypothesise as to why the first tub I used felt like I had used a lidocaine throat spray and four subsequent tubs didn't.

    That is the only reason I am still interested in this thread which appears to be going nowhere fast.
    I believe one of the possible PEAs thrown around caused a numbing sensation.
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  21. I wish it was still around
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  22. So what about those of us who felt nothing from taking any lot of Craze -- no energy, no crash, nothing except (when taking "OG" Craze) heart palpitations and actually having a harder time exercising (every time I take it, it feels like I must have already run 10 miles).

    Pat, you need to come out with another groundbreaking stimulant that changes PWO's forever...

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    if someone snuck a strong MAOI in a product along with a phenethylamine derivative (not alpha-methylated like amphetamines are) then one could possibly acheive amphetamine like activity.
    What type of MAOI would you consider "strong" enough to achieve such results? Natural, name synthetic....? Theoretically speaking of course.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I would be curious for someone to hypothesise as to why the first tub I used felt like I had used a lidocaine throat spray and four subsequent tubs didn't.

    That is the only reason I am still interested in this thread which appears to be going nowhere fast.
    Yep, I got that lidocaine feeling in my first tub. I have to day the stuff was fun and good for workouts too. Still a decent pre workout I guess, but nothing like the good ole lidocaine batches.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    What type of MAOI would you consider "strong" enough to achieve such results? Natural, name synthetic....? Theoretically speaking of course.
    deprenyl is synthetic but it supposed to make phenethylamines potent

    I know of some natural type AMAOIs that are strong but phenethylamines need MAOI type B
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