DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    While it appears this hasn't been raised yet...

    Is it completely out of the question that an individual/company, not saying a competitor, made fake craze and included an amph. analog while using legitimate lot numbers they found on other tubs?

    Seems like a good way to make a lot of money rather quickly..

    Everyone seems to be throwing out anti-DS conspiracy theories, what about that scenario?

    inb4 this is considered "too convenient"

    why the hell would someone make a counterfeit and go to such extremes to make it so good? If you wanna make a quick buck you throw cheap ingredients in a counterfeit. you are trying to jam a square peg into a round hole

    whats more, it is my understanding that the counterfeit batches are said to suck. no?
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by woodbear View Post
    a new batch was tested in sweden too recently, positive for a amphetamine like substance..
    DS claims its a pirate batch,
    Gymgrossisten.com , one of the biggest supplement shops/ scandinavia`s bodybuilding.com , says it came right from DS.
    News do not mention if the police just tested a box they got from some dude, or from a proper store.

    The swedish forensic national laboratory bought the craze from Gymgrossisten.com
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    This comes straight from USADA's high risk list:


    that list appears to be nothing but complete BS. they say 11-oxo contained androstenedione and turinabol. First of all, turinabol or its prohormones never ever was in our facility. second of all, 11-0xo was made by the chromic acid oxidation of hydrocortisone. the hydrocortisone was bought from a chinese supplier of active pharmaceutical intermediates (NOT a company that would also make turinabol). And it is impossible for turinabol to be a side product in the reaction

    Either USADA is lying or they are looking at ppm amounts, in which case the presence could be explained by cross contamination happening amongst samples in their lab

    USADA is not interested in doing things right, they are interested in propaganda
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  4. Administrator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    This comes straight from USADA's high risk list:

    usada.org/forms.asp?uid=3588 (Control+F "Craze'')


    Amphetamine and ethylamphetamine?! Surely DS can't be this stupid, RIGHT?! And why aren't the DEA and FDA all over Cahill right now?!
    Maybe I'll let everyone post html directly to he site. That would be real secure. Quit bitching about the format.



    For answers to board issues, read the Suggestion and News forum at the bottom of the main page.

  5. Is it weird that I have a very strong desire to try and find some of this now
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    Back to the unfolding story you refuse to believe in. Do you belong to the flat earth society by chance?
    i don't believe the earth is flat, but i do believe in a thing called love.

    you know what i don't believe in? santa claus.

    is this comparable to our current situation? somewhat.

    i like hard evidence, not headlines. i've seen tests showing craze contains none of the illicit compounds that sweden, australia or any other countries that frankly all sound really terrible to visit have allegedly found.

    i've used it, again and again. yes.

    is it my favorite pre-workout or am i obsessed with it to the point i would refuse to believe any notions or theories that were presented to me? no, frankly i use caffeine tabs and bulk cit-mal before most of my workouts because i lift at night and need to get to sleep around 9pm.

    i do love craze though. i also think the staff at Driven Sports are stand-up guys.

    i think a lot of the parties involved in this dispute have something to gain from the tides shifting one way or another and personally i'll just wait to see what happens when the slinky reaches the bottom of the staircase, unless of course it's one of those generic slinkys that stops midway through and you have to keep nudging it to get it to go to the bottom. what's even the point then?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    someone suggested privated to me that it was. would be f'ed up
    Southpaw (meaning me?)....if so, no. I'm not on bb.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    Is it weird that I have a very strong desire to try and find some of this now
    Ur Jonesin
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Angelbolic View Post
    I
    However, Craze is the only product on that list said to contain amphetamine and ethylamphetamine, so it's either also cross-contamination or they're a byproduct (maybe in the PPM range) of the synthesis of the b-phenylethylamines found in Craze. Or maybe it's a byproduct of the synthesis of the compound found by the Swedes and Australians... Do you think that's a theoretical possibility?

    Yeah their description of what is in craze makes no sense either. Lets try to forget that usada crap altogether, it only distracts from actual facts out there

    Oh, and EL40 is not an ergopharm lot number, our lot numbers are not formatted like that. So their ergopharm 11-oxo results are wrong. Either USADA completely fabricates things or this is some ergopharm counterfeit (unilikely)
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  10. Quote Originally Posted by starkkkk View Post
    i i've seen tests showing craze contains none of the illicit compounds that sweden, australia or any other countries that frankly all sound really terrible to visit have allegedly found.?
    NO YOU HAVE NOT. The DS screen for amphetamines and analogs did NOT include the current one in question. They never showed that this analog is not in their product, so their using that as evidence of innocence is completely misleadingU simply believe anything DS says and discount anything else. The one with the real bias here is YOU
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    NO YOU HAVE NOT. The DS screen for amphetamines and analogs did NOT include the current one in question. They never showed that this analog is not in their product, so their using that as evidence of innocence is completely misleadingU simply believe anything DS says and discount anything else. The one with the real bias here is YOU
    hey, hey, let's not caps lock.

    i wouldn't say i believe anything they say, at least, not entirely.

    if a DS rep was like, "hey, did you know that if you enter your PIN number backwards at an ATM the police will be dispatched to your location?" then i'd respond with, "that's an urban legend, check out snopes bro"

    or if they were to say "you're going to die from consuming DMAA, gov't says so" i'd be all like, "hm, i don't think so tim"

    but look, you're a chemistry and i'm not, so i won't try to engage you at that level. i don't have any wish to invoke your wrath at the next arnold and find myself being pummeled by some guy in a huge green eskimo coat out of left field and then i'm pulling my teeth out of the bar with a pair of pliers just because i made some posts on a forum i didn't know existed until yesterday.

    also, it takes one to know one and i've never knowingly sold supplements with a controlled substance in them, but if i did i bet i could spot someone else who was doing it.

    i did bake pot into brownies once in high school though, then i put them in the faculty lounge. man that was the best social studies class i've ever attended. teacher was like, "why don't we have class outside...? i mean, why don't we do this every day??? but let's stop at the vending machines first, i am hungry as ****"

  12. I'm dying lol

  13. Quote Originally Posted by starkkkk View Post
    halso, it takes one to know one and i've never knowingly sold supplements with a controlled substance in them, but if i did i bet i could spot someone else who was doing it.
    If this were true i would have been indicted and probably in prison right now. Instead absolutely nothing happened. If your purpose here is to just be a funny guy and not to add anything to the conversation of intelligence then expect your lifetime on this board to be short lived
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  14. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    If this were true i would have been indicted and probably in prison right now. Instead absolutely nothing happened. If your purpose here is to just be a funny guy and not to add anything to the conversation of intelligence then expect your lifetime on this board to be short lived
    i wasn't implying anything about you, i meant that i haven't ever sold controlled substances in a supplement.

    but i'm not following your logic because if the owner of DS was selling methamphetamine-laced preworkouts, would he be indicted and locked up in prison?

    instead he is probably somewhere drinking some flavor of craze that i've never heard of and hopefully developing even more innovative products rather than pissing and moaning about this whole debacle on a public forum.

    btw, did you just quote casino royale? i love that film. everyone says the newest one is the best, but i liked the first.

    i thought daniel craig brought a fresh take to the role and despite the comparisons that have been drawn to the bourne series, i continue to support the new turn the franchise has taken.

    that guy is freakin' old though, i mean, how long can they keep convincing people that chicks would bang this dude? i mean he could be their grandfather ffs

  15. Quote Originally Posted by starkkkk View Post

    instead he is probably somewhere drinking some flavor of craze that i've never heard of and hopefully developing even more innovative products rather than pissing and moaning about this whole debacle on a public forum.

    fs
    Run along now.... Isn't it recess time? Go digress to your peers while playing tether ball and come back when you're ready to learn.
    *strong supplement shop rep*

    Find the latest supplements at the best prices at strongsupplementshop.com

  16. Quote Originally Posted by starkkkk View Post
    i wasn't implying anything about you, i meant that i haven't ever sold controlled substances in a supplement.but i'm not following your logic because if the owner of DS was selling methamphetamine-laced preworkouts, would he be indicted and locked up in prison?
    jeezus christ you dont even understand the simplest details of this situation. His product does not contain methamphetamine. You should go back to bb.com where everyone else is equally clueless
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by Afi140 View Post
    Run along now.... Isn't it recess time? Go digress to your peers while playing tether ball and come back when you're ready to learn.
    don't be rude, we had recess in the fourth grade and i am easily reading at a sixth grade level.

    next week is going to be my first dance, but i'm nervous to both engage any member of the opposite sex in such close quarters and because i don't how to do the cha-cha-cha.

    besides, you only have yourself to blame for dragging me over here. i mean, you guys were talking about me like i was some kind of past-my-prime celebrity that had been spotted walking their dog with sweatpants on, chugging a frappucino and now i'm here to defend myself... no need to get fussy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    jeezus christ you dont even understand the simplest details of this situation. His product does not contain methamphetamine. You should go back to bb.com where everyone else is equally clueless
    well i'm glad we cleared that up.

    while i'm here, wtf is a hump spray?

  18. Looks like this thread has gone to ****.
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  19. is there a mod anywhere in sight? hello?
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  20. in soviet russia, mod sees you

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    why the hell would someone make a counterfeit and go to such extremes to make it so good? If you wanna make a quick buck you throw cheap ingredients in a counterfeit. you are trying to jam a square peg into a round hole

    whats more, it is my understanding that the counterfeit batches are said to suck. no?
    Don't quote me on this as I have to verify if I can find the posts, but I recall users saying it had a salty taste.

    A poor flavoring job w/ an amph. salt might be the cause of that taste.
    SNS Forum Representative | Lift, Laugh, Repeat

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    Don't quote me on this as I have to verify if I can find the posts, but I recall users saying it had a salty taste.

    A poor flavoring job w/ an amph. salt might be the cause of that taste.

    amphetamines would taste bitter. but then so would natural phenethylamines
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  23. Starkkkk has been clueless about every point he tried to make, then follows up with jokes only funny to inbreds. I think its time to get rid of him.
  24. Thumbs up


    MOD EDIT: If you can't productively be a part of the discussion (and your comments so far have not), then don't be involved.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by starkkkk View Post
    hello, ronesjones and welcome to anabolic minds!

    on behalf of the members here, i'd like to welcome you to our discussion.

    we're discussing the consequences of perpetrating crimes while formulating supplements.

    examples of such an act would be selling steroids in a transdermal, knowingly selling a c3 or formulating products with illicit substances in them that could potentially yield impressive results, only to later find out they were illegally mislabeled

    can i add you to my friends list?
    Youre clearly suffering from Craze withdrawal.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by ronesjones View Post
    Youre clearly suffering from Craze withdrawal.
    i haven't had any in weeks.

    in other news, i don't think the moderators will be able to grant your request by getting rid of clueless posters, as this would cause the value of placing supplement advertisements to plummet quite drastically.

  27. Quote Originally Posted by zsr View Post
    Didnt Cahill serve time for selling steroids too?

    Everyone acts like Matt and DS are such a great group of guys, not sure why. Off topic but I also have no clue why Pinch would rep for a company like that.
    Have you ever met them?

    I had the opportunity to meet nearly all of them at the Arnold. Great group of guys, very nice and friendly.

    I had met Pinch previously, but Matt and all the rest of them were very cool people.
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  28. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    Have you ever met them?

    I had the opportunity to meet nearly all of them at the Arnold. Great group of guys, very nice and friendly.

    I had met Pinch previously, but Matt and all the rest of them were very cool people.
    i'm inclined to agree.

    thank you for the friendly warning, moderator staff. i will keep my topic in line with the thread title.

    patrick,

    all debate regarding the controversy of craze and it's formula aside...

    what's your favorite flavor?

    mine is strawberry swirl

  29. Quote Originally Posted by starkkkk View Post
    i'm inclined to agree.

    thank you for the friendly warning, moderator staff. i will keep my topic in line with the thread title.

    patrick,

    all debate regarding the controversy of craze and it's formula aside...

    what's your favorite flavor?

    mine is strawberry swirl
    I agree, although Tom provides a rather nice reality check when you like to talk about how heavy your last deadlift was and then he drops that he pulled 615 earlier...

    Strawberry Swirl > Apple Pie > Pineapple > Berry Lemonade > BB Tea > Grape IMO
    SNS Forum Representative | Lift, Laugh, Repeat

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Daycrawler View Post
    Have you ever met them?I had the opportunity to meet nearly all of them at the Arnold. Great group of guys, very nice and friendly.I had met Pinch previously, but Matt and all the rest of them were very cool people.
    I have heard they are cool people. I am cool people too.Business is business though, and if i have reason to believe a competitor might be cheating (deliberately or inadvertantly) to gain market advantage I am going to do my best to investigate that. And put an end to it.
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