DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

[baldwanus]

Well, something we can all agree on is that I'm a faggot!

Agreed

[gahcase21]

What exactly are you looking for from us?

A free sample?

[Patrick Arnold]

Certainly you had no obligation to show that every ingredient on the label was detected during your testing since you clearly had no idea what ingredients were listed on the Craze label until I posted them on this thread 2 days ago.

I was simply asking you what ingredients (from the list that I posted) would you expect to see during your testing at the conditions you set? You already mentioned that Creatine would not elute but that caffeine should have. What I am asking is what other ingredients (from the list that I posted) would you have expected to see?

where did you post a list?

i would expect to see the phenethylamines (and i did see two of them). the dendrobine stuff i am not sure but i would expect to see them too

i would not expect to see any amino acids

tell me, are you involved with the operations of DS? Do you know exactly what goes into their products? Are you privy to the analyses of the starting materials that are being put into their products?

Or are you just a rep

[Patrick Arnold]

Perhaps showing us a mass spec performed by DS would circumvent the necessity for more lame banter. Your company list ingredients on the label. Provide proof the ingredients are in fact present and N-benzyl is not present rather than just challenging others. Otherwise, DS appears as if either they have no clue what is present or they prefer not to show what is present. It is more about what you don't say and your tact in engaging others in pissing matches over collateral issues that continues to raise red flags with me.

to be fair they shouldnt have to provide a comprehensive analysis of their product because that would reveal propietary information. At the same time though they cant sit back and bust my balls for what i saw and did not see and at the same time continue to keep their formula a secret.

[Patrick Arnold]

On your column, with the testing conditions you used, would caffeine show up in the range of 10-20 mg/g?

maybe

[Patrick Arnold]

what is SMF?

[raptor2003]

well I have the original craze tub (TMG listed as 1st ingredient), the relabelled (with creatine mono listed as 1st ingredient); wonder if I should order the latest craze flavor just to see if the "kick/feel " is the same

curious if all 3 craze tubs will show same peak(s) on the chromatograph

[JezPudzian]

well I have the original craze tub (TMG listed as 1st ingredient), the relabelled (with creatine mono listed as 1st ingredient); wonder if I should order the latest craze flavor just to see if the "kick/feel " is the same

curious if all 3 craze tubs will show same peak(s) on the chromatograph

yeh i have been wondering this too, have tried original and relabelled craze so far and can't say i've noticed any differences...

what is SMF?

good question

[3clipseGT]

Ive used both and the feeling is the same.

I believe they said they only changed the order because people were more likely to know creatine mono then TMG.

[Patrick Arnold]

Ive used both and the feeling is the same.

I believe they said they only changed the order because people were more likely to know creatine mono then TMG.

thats a weird thing to say if they said that, unless both ingredients are present in the exact same amounts. Because the law demands propietary blends have ingredient listed in descending order of prevalence

[itzDodge]

thats a weird thing to say if they said that, unless both ingredients are present in the exact same amounts. Because the law demands propietary blends have ingredient listed in descending order of prevalence

What if they are both in there in the same amounts?

[starrk]

Would it be safe to say that all this online banter between forums is likely a waste of time and that the courts will determine whether Craze is compliant and meets it's label claims?

I realize that forums are for discussion and that's all well and good, but it seems rather pointless to expend so much time and energy when none of these tests or hypotheses are going to mean much in legal terms.

All the accusations in the world will amount to nothing more than a hill of beans once this suit is dropped.

I'll say again as I've said before, there's just no way Driven Sports would put ingredients that were not compliant into a product that would be under such intense scrutiny. It's too much of a game-changer. This isn't some lame VPX pre-workout that will never see the inside of a lab because it doesn't do anything and no one cares.

[sirlordford]

What if they are both in there in the same amounts?

This is the explanation one of the reps stated in another thread. I believe on bb.com.

[southpaw23]

I'd just like to reiterate that Craze is the best PWO out there, by leaps and bounds. Disclaimer: I have no affiliations with DS, and supplement wars/novellas are on par with going to an Adam Lambert concert, as both share certain similarities.

[starrk]

I'd just like to reiterate that Craze is the best PWO out there, by leaps and bounds. Disclaimer: I have no affiliations with DS, and supplement wars/novellas are on par with going to an Adam Lambert concert, as both share certain similarities.

Is that the guy who was "The Highlander" in all those movies?

I wish he'd do more films, as I was a huge fan. It wasn't so much his acting ability, as his strange way of speaking. It was haunting.

If he's doing musical acts now, I'd be keen to go and hear what he has to say. Does he still wear a kilt?

[Royd The Noyd]

If they are the same amounts they can list them however they wish. This information is all available on the FDA's site.

[Royd The Noyd]

Would it be safe to say that all this online banter between forums is likely a waste of time and that the courts will determine whether Craze is compliant and meets it's label claims?

I realize that forums are for discussion and that's all well and good, but it seems rather pointless to expend so much time and energy when none of these tests or hypotheses are going to mean much in legal terms.

All the accusations in the world will amount to nothing more than a hill of beans once this suit is dropped.

I'll say again as I've said before, there's just no way Driven Sports would put ingredients that were not compliant into a product that would be under such intense scrutiny. It's too much of a game-changer. This isn't some lame VPX pre-workout that will never see the inside of a lab because it doesn't do anything and no one cares.

Vpx sells a ****load of product outside the forums.

[itzDodge]

Vpx sells a ****load of product outside the forums.

He's referencing their Friction preworkout that has a potentially non DSHEA compliant ingredient(isopropyloctopamine ). There is a couple threads on it over at BB.com

[3clipseGT]

thats a weird thing to say if they said that, unless both ingredients are present in the exact same amounts. Because the law demands propietary blends have ingredient listed in descending order of prevalence

Im not 100% positive but i believe they said they are both present in the same amounts.

[southpaw23]

Is that the guy who was "The Highlander" in all those movies?

I wish he'd do more films, as I was a huge fan. It wasn't so much his acting ability, as his strange way of speaking. It was haunting.

If he's doing musical acts now, I'd be keen to go and hear what he has to say. Does he still wear a kilt?

Chances are he still rocks a kilt, though not in highlander, mostly at slumber parties.