DS Craze Lawsuit and FDA Action

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    Yes I do. PM me.
    Would you happen to have another tub of "old" Craze you can sell/trade for?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by SpicedCider View Post
    Would you happen to have another tub of "old" Craze you can sell/trade for?
    I have two unopened tubs, lot #'s 1202486. Exp. 02/15. I'd much rather trade for something else unopened and intact than do a $ transaction. For what, I'm not quite sure.... but I'm open to ideas/suggestions. Same offer goes for hardknock. If either of you have the old-school versions of Ergolean and/or Ergolean AMP2 that would be very enticing... but not the new crap with N-MethylTyramine (after PA sold ErgoPharm and they ****ed the formula). If you guys wanna PM me we can talk turkey.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    aw man i wish i could comment!!!
    PA, I was hoping we could talk hypothetical and off-topic for a minute. This Craze nonsense is wearing me out.
    So completely off-topic of Craze for a moment.... Let's say, theoretically speaking of course, that one were to order a batch of N-Benzyl-2-Phenylethylamine online. If one were to ingest said chemical could one expect numbeness to be a primary or side-effect of ingestion? This is all hypothetical and probably just gibberish from a no-nothing like myself, but that just happened to cross my mind when I was thinking about everything non-Craze related and it peaked my curiosity.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    PA, I was hoping we could talk hypothetical and off-topic for a minute. This Craze nonsense is wearing me out.
    So completely off-topic of Craze for a moment.... Let's say, theoretically speaking of course, that one were to order a batch of N-Benzyl-2-Phenylethylamine online. If one were to ingest said chemical could one expect numbeness to be a primary or side-effect of ingestion? This is all hypothetical and probably just gibberish from a no-nothing like myself, but that just happened to cross my mind when I was thinking about everything non-Craze related and it peaked my curiosity.
    that chemical has a pretty strong anesthetic effect yes. a little bit makes tongue go numb
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Ceredumbellum View Post
    PA, I was hoping we could talk hypothetical and off-topic for a minute. This Craze nonsense is wearing me out.
    So completely off-topic of Craze for a moment.... Let's say, theoretically speaking of course, that one were to order a batch of N-Benzyl-2-Phenylethylamine online. If one were to ingest said chemical could one expect numbeness to be a primary or side-effect of ingestion? This is all hypothetical and probably just gibberish from a no-nothing like myself, but that just happened to cross my mind when I was thinking about everything non-Craze related and it peaked my curiosity.
    I see what you did there......
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  6. I am really enjoying this conversation even if some people cannot talk in detail about it, There is 100% something in Craze I am positive

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Melo7 View Post
    I am really enjoying this conversation even if some people cannot talk in detail about it, There is 100% something in Craze I am positive


    Ya....it's called 'effective ingredients'......most supplements don't even work and when one does....everyone jumps on it like a touchy uncle. WRONG I TELL YOU!


    Just be happy with happy people!

  8. someone posted something insinuating that i made up the hush letter DS sent me. It was posted on bb.com where i am banned.

    Post #170 "new" craze vs "old" craze - Page 6 - Bodybuilding.com Forums


    I need help. Can someone post the attached letter in response to that guys post on bb.com for me?

    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    someone posted something insinuating that i made up the hush letter DS sent me. It was posted on bb.com where i am banned.



    I need help. Can someone post the attached letter in response to that guys post on bb.com for me?
    someone did it
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  10. There a big difference between old and the new one I thought I may have build a tolerance to it no other way to put it but to say **** DS

  11. Quote Originally Posted by epstaneman View Post
    Ya....it's called 'effective ingredients'......most supplements don't even work and when one does....everyone jumps on it like a touchy uncle. WRONG I TELL YOU!


    Just be happy with happy people!
    "Effective Ingredients"? That's fine and dandy, but when these "effective ingredients" are not listed in the proprietery blend and have little to no scientific data backing them that becomes a bit worriesome. Aren't you worried about the possibility of negative side effects resulting from the ingestion of ingredients that have few, if any, human research trials? As far as I know the jury is still out on long-term effects of N,N Diethyl-B-Phenlyethlamine and N-Benzyl-2-Pheneylethylamine, not to mention short term effects. A million questions come to mind a few of which are:
    Are these ingredients legal, illegal or do they fall within the infamous "grey market" status?
    Are these ingredients neurotoxic?
    Why is there an extreme, prolonged high followed by an equally extreme and prolonged crash/ come-down?
    Is the anesthetic effect detremental to one's health?

    I've got a bunch more but it sure would be nice to find out exactly what was in the original Craze (it's blatantly obvious they have changed their formula). Hell, I have an old, unopened tub that I would be willing to send, free of charge to test, to a reputable chemist who has no affiliation with DS. If there's any takers out there let me know (and please don't try to con me just to get a free tub of the old-school Craze). PM me if that would make you feel more comfortable about setting it up. Obviously the chain of custody wouldn't hold up in a court of law, but I'm not really worried about that. This tub is sealed and hasn't been tampered with. It was ordered from BB.com. I just want to know what in the hell I was taking almost every day for two months and would like to find out if it did/ could cause detramential side effects. I'm not looking to "go public" with the results or throw said chemist under the bus.... I'm very discreet. I just want to know what's in it.

  12. Going back to my earlier posts I can tell if the formula has been changed, ive clearly still got three tubs of the 'good' craze (dont ask me to sell it BTW). I had two scoops with Acetyl Carnatine yesterday....I had a really good day: I felt completely buzzed (i had this fantastic aura) , my mind was going at a million miles per hour and i had a great sense of wellbeing. Unfortunately I crashed pretty hard after about 7 hours.
    However normally i only take one scoop and dont experience a crash.

    I'd be really interested to see what is actually in it. If it’s what is stated - good on craze. If its not, I’ll be disappointed in the company as its not good to purposefully lie to consumers. However, I'd still like to thank DS for the good buzz. Whether we ever find out is anyone’s guess.
    ~Get shredded or die trying! The alphamine chapter~
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213632-get-shredded-die.html

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    someone posted something insinuating that i made up the hush letter DS sent me. It was posted on bb.com where i am banned.

    Post #170

    I need help. Can someone post the attached letter in response to that guys post on bb.com for me?
    Things just got real....

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Docmattic View Post
    Going back to my earlier posts I can tell if the formula has been changed, ive clearly still got three tubs of the 'good' craze (dont ask me to sell it BTW). I had two scoops with Acetyl Carnatine yesterday....I had a really good day: I felt completely buzzed (i had this fantastic aura) , my mind was going at a million miles per hour and i had a great sense of wellbeing. Unfortunately I crashed pretty hard after about 7 hours.
    However normally i only take one scoop and dont experience a crash.

    I'd be really interested to see what is actually in it. If it’s what is stated - good on craze. If its not, I’ll be disappointed in the company as its not good to purposefully lie to consumers. However, I'd still like to thank DS for the good buzz. Whether we ever find out is anyone’s guess.
    The whole crashing action never really bothered me at all to be honest. What I mean is that usually when I take any stimulant it is normally 6-8 hours before bed, so when it does wear off i am usually headed to bed anyway.

  15. man. the new and old one is a myth. it all seems the same thing to me! Took a heaping scoop today and it felt the same as it did 3 months ago. maybe you just need to cycle off. give it one month.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/193693-lifting-heavy-every.html
    MY LOG ABOVE^^^ Yes i Squat heavy every single day. Come see how it works out!

  16. That court case in the documents posted above is happening in my hometown. Awesome.

    Anyways, I cant feel any noticeable differences in both batches of Craze. I bought some when it first came out and some way after all this lawsuit stuff came about. Both seemed equally effective. Then again, I only use it once or twice a week.
    MY I-FORCE NUTRITION INTIMIDATE/REVERSITOL V2 SPONSORED LOG (PICS)

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202817-here-we-go-2.html

  17. I absolutely feel the difference between the two tubs I have gone through. Wow I thought it was just me building a tolerance or something. Looks like I'm not the only one!! GREAT workouts with the Og version and the recent berry lemonade tub I got was just not the same...

  18. Quote Originally Posted by theniteman View Post

    Anyways, I cant feel any noticeable differences in both batches of Craze. I bought some when it first came out and some way after all this lawsuit stuff came about. Both seemed equally effective. Then again, I only use it once or twice a week.

    people need to be referencing exact lot numbers. buying something from store or e-store can result in one getting an old lot or a new lot sometimes
    Anabolicminds.com Featured Author

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold

    people need to be referencing exact lot numbers. buying something from store or e-store can result in one getting an old lot or a new lot sometimes
    True. I will check the lot numbers of my empty containers if they havent already been thrown away. Pretty sure I got some from the first few runs (pre-order when it first came out) and a new lot cuz its the new flavor. Actual lots #'s would better validate this tho.
    MY I-FORCE NUTRITION INTIMIDATE/REVERSITOL V2 SPONSORED LOG (PICS)

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202817-here-we-go-2.html

  20. The conversation is extremely interesting, but the power of placebo might be too powerful to gain anything definitive from this.

  21. Question for PA:
    Would it be illegal for an individual or company to make a designer PEA and throw it in a dietary supplement if the PEA were not a scheduled drug or something that is considered an Amphetamine Analogue? I know you're not a lawyer but you've been in this industry for a long time so I figured you could offer some insight there. And if it's not illegal to do so why wouldn't companies be designing new PEA's left and right to throw in their thermogenic blends? Just curious.

  22. The grape I used had lot number 1201378 expiry 01/15. The new crazolade was1205097 expiry 05/15. There is a difference between the ingredient labels being creatine first on the crazolade and the grape having Trmethylglycine (betaine Anhydrous) first. Serving size is different also, crazolade is one heaping scoop (5.8 grams) and the grape 1 scoop (5.3 grams). I have two tubs left of the grape with the same lot numbers and will be giving it a go later in the month to find out if the new berry is different to the old grape or I have built up a tolerance to it. I have just come off the berry a couple of weeks back that's why I'm having the break as I always cycle my pre workouts.

  23. [QUOTE=Ceredumbellum;3589836]Question for PA:
    Would it be illegal for an individual or company to make a designer PEA and throw it in a dietary supplement if the PEA were not a scheduled drug or something that is considered an Amphetamine Analogue? I know you're not a lawyer but you've been in this industry for a long time so I figured you could offer some insight there. And if it's not illegal to do so why wouldn't companies be designing new PEA's left and right to throw in their thermogenic blends? Just curious.

    First and foremost, ingreds. are SUPPOSED to be DSHEA compliant...start reading here ~http://www.fda.gov/Food/DietarySupplements/default.htm

    Serious Nutrition Solution ~~

    mw at seriousnutritionsolutions dot com
    mike at competitiveedgelabs dot com


  24. Quote Originally Posted by D3Baseball View Post
    The conversation is extremely interesting, but the power of placebo might be too powerful to gain anything definitive from this.
    Placebo would not make a person's tongue go numb though.

    Also, tolerance build up is probable but ive never noticed that from whiteflood. It alwaystreated me the same. Though, thus far, i have yet to have these effects from craze as most speak of.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by hardknock View Post
    Placebo would not make a person's tongue go numb though.

    Also, tolerance build up is probable but ive never noticed that from whiteflood. It alwaystreated me the same. Though, thus far, i have yet to have these effects from craze as most speak of.


    White flood didn't do SH*T for me. Tasted nasty AND most importantly....didn't give me no energy. No focus. Just nauseousness about 40 minutes later. I have a pretty high tollerance to stimulants. Not even Jack3d does anything for me.


    CRAZE is the only thing that has worked for me AND doesn't give me an upset stomach. Launch 4350 is good too but not as intense as craze. F'n awesome flavor though.
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