NTBM phytoserm

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    exactly. you believe that iforce, in their write up for their product that also contains bulbine, is claiming that it will bring your test levels into the supra range lol. all marketing hype. i used to love test boosters but if you expect more than a bump in libido, some attitude/aggression you have bought into the marketing hype
    My baseline test was just over the midpoint of the range....I am not expecting a supraphysiological test from this product no matter the hype.... if I was near the top of the range I would be impressed. We'll see.

    Mr.50


  2. Hmmmm..well its still kind of early on so perhaps it will still happen for you guys. Are there any recommendations on taking Bulbine? with or without food ,etc?
    I'm still interested in trying this soon from one of the companies using this
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    My baseline test was just over the midpoint of the range....I am not expecting a supraphysiological test from this product no matter the hype.... if I was near the top of the range I would be impressed. We'll see.

    Mr.50
    and that would give you exactly what someone should expect from a t-booster. i dont think some people really READ some of the stuff that gets thrown at them. ie say you have tt of 500 and comp x says prod x will give you 350% increase in test. that puts you at 2250 tt. yeah i dont think so. if it did its spiked for sure or the guy who gave the blood for the test is, well, on test

  4. Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    and that would give you exactly what someone should expect from a t-booster. i dont think some people really READ some of the stuff that gets thrown at them. ie say you have tt of 500 and comp x says prod x will give you 350% increase in test. that puts you at 2250 tt. yeah i dont think so. if it did its spiked for sure or the guy who gave the blood for the test is, well, on test
    Realize that won't mean much, since after all; its ENDOGENOUS testosterone and not a synthetic source of it. I like to take myself as an example, I still can obtain over 2000ng/dl naturally and am not that big of a dude, but I got plenty of ANDROGENIC attributes.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    I think there are others.... and I really had no intention of logging it.... I just ordered a bottle to try it sometime and then I had some blood work scheduled and the bottle came in the day before..... so I took the blood work in the morning and then took my first dosage....then when I came home that day I saw Broons had started this thread and I sort of unintentionally hijacked it a bit.... (sorry Broons) and then here we are....

    I think there are some actual logs out there but I have not read them to see how they are going. Probably wont until my final opinion is rendered...

    Mr.50
    Oh dude no apology necessary. That was my goal starting this thread. Seeing how this is such a new compound I just wanted to get as much user feedback collected as possible.

    I don't really consider this a log at all per se, just the opinions of those who have tried it so far on how you feel it is working. As long as people are interested in hearing my subjective opinion, ill continue to post updates until my bottle is gone.
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  6. "You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Broons again"


    Mr.50

  7. so 2 weeks for both of you?
    for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come 1 Tim 4:8

  8. Quote Originally Posted by james122 View Post
    so 2 weeks for both of you?
    Yup

  9. Quote Originally Posted by james122 View Post
    not a good sign. only because even with daa I had strength increases. I am interested in your bloodwork, I had bloods done on schedual 2 months ago, a week after finishing nutra bulk daa and my test was still elevated enough for my dr to notice and ask whats up that was a big suprise! I guess i had high hopes for this supp.
    Well dont get down yet.....I was in the sack with my lady last night and clearly felt some interesting positive effects BUT not sure if that was from Phyto or if it was because it had been a while (scheduling and travel problems, and Im trying to be faithful, LOL). But I can say it was pretty extreme.....will have to run another "experiment" and then see if the reuslts can be reproduced or if it was just a fluke.

    Again the true test will be the followup blood work.

    Mr.50

  10. I think we should all step back for a minute and see how ****ing irresponsible it is for supplement companies to start marketing their products as SERM replacements.

    "Sorry bro, you were just a non-responder! There's always TRT." Gross.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    I think there are others.... and I really had no intention of logging it.... I just ordered a bottle to try it sometime and then I had some blood work scheduled and the bottle came in the day before..... so I took the blood work in the morning and then took my first dosage....then when I came home that day I saw Broons had started this thread and I sort of unintentionally hijacked it a bit.... (sorry Broons) and then here we are....

    I think there are some actual logs out there but I have not read them to see how they are going. Probably wont until my final opinion is rendered...

    Mr.50
    you and broons are doing a great job- i really hope you guys see effects and don't feel you wasted your money.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  12. I know most my own and Mr 50's anecdotal experience so far has seemed disappointing, but it has really only been 14-15 days. Could just be a slow acting supp? I do believe it is starting to slowly ramp up a little. I've had more energy, my sack is definitely "fuller" and libido is definitely increasing. And my workouts the last few days have been the best I've had in the last couple weeks as far as focus and just wanting to tear **** up. Last night at work someone asked me if I had anger problems cuz I was going off on every little thing that annoyed me.

    For me, biggest question is priceerformance. Stuff wasn't cheap and theres no disclaimer saying requires 2 bottles to really kick in.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by broons View Post
    I know most my own and Mr 50's anecdotal experience so far has seemed disappointing, but it has really only been 14-15 days. Could just be a slow acting supp? I do believe it is starting to slowly ramp up a little. I've had more energy, my sack is definitely "fuller" and libido is definitely increasing. And my workouts the last few days have been the best I've had in the last couple weeks as far as focus and just wanting to tear **** up. Last night at work someone asked me if I had anger problems cuz I was going off on every little thing that annoyed me.

    For me, biggest question is priceerformance. Stuff wasn't cheap and theres no disclaimer saying requires 2 bottles to really kick in.
    no it not cheap, well glad to hear its better, i would have hoped it would not take 2 bottle two, we will se i guess?
    for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come 1 Tim 4:8

  14. Quote Originally Posted by broons View Post
    I know most my own and Mr 50's anecdotal experience so far has seemed disappointing, but it has really only been 14-15 days. Could just be a slow acting supp? I do believe it is starting to slowly ramp up a little. I've had more energy, my sack is definitely "fuller" and libido is definitely increasing. And my workouts the last few days have been the best I've had in the last couple weeks as far as focus and just wanting to tear **** up. Last night at work someone asked me if I had anger problems cuz I was going off on every little thing that annoyed me.

    For me, biggest question is priceerformance. Stuff wasn't cheap and theres no disclaimer saying requires 2 bottles to really kick in.
    Well guys because of personal reasons I will be getting my second blood draw either tomorrow or wednesday.

    Mr.50
    Last edited by Mr.50; 12-06-2010 at 03:15 PM. Reason: punctuation

  15. iForce have posted blood results from two testers with large increases.

    Both were below the floor on test levels so we are yet to see anything from someone in range.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    Realize that won't mean much, since after all; its ENDOGENOUS testosterone and not a synthetic source of it. I like to take myself as an example, I still can obtain over 2000ng/dl naturally and am not that big of a dude, but I got plenty of ANDROGENIC attributes.
    you my friend are a different story

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    Well guys because of personal reasons I will be getting my second blood draw either tomorrow or wednesday.

    Mr.50
    I'm really looking forward to this! Report back when you have a chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    iForce have posted blood results from two testers with large increases.

    Both were below the floor on test levels so we are yet to see anything from someone in range.
    Hi, could you please link me to these posted blood panels? Thanks a lot

  18. Quote Originally Posted by ambulldog View Post
    you my friend are a different story
    yup-andrew is a freak of nature, lol.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    I'm really looking forward to this! Report back when you have a chance.



    Hi, could you please link me to these posted blood panels? Thanks a lot
    Tropinol Alpha-Tester Hormone Panels

    As you said please and thank you I couldn't resist. Manners maketh man.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Tropinol Alpha-Tester Hormone Panels

    As you said please and thank you I couldn't resist. Manners maketh man.
    Reps a' comin your way!

  21. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    Well guys because of personal reasons I will be getting my second blood draw either tomorrow or wednesday.

    Mr.50
    Cant wait to see your results man!

    I do feel as if this supp is starting to slowly kick in and I say slooowly. Libido and aggression are rising steadily. I'm guessing that about the time the bottle is empty I'll be really feeling it.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by broons View Post
    Cant wait to see your results man!

    I do feel as if this supp is starting to slowly kick in and I say slooowly. Libido and aggression are rising steadily. I'm guessing that about the time the bottle is empty I'll be really feeling it.
    Had my blood drawn this morning (then went for some fasted cardio). Should have the results back in a few days. I do have to agree with Broons though...it feels as if it is really subtly kicking in....very even increase though subjectively. Not like other test boosters where 2 days after you start taking them you want to screw anything in sight. We'll see what the blood work says.

    Mr.50

  23. Quote Originally Posted by andrew732 View Post
    Realize that won't mean much, since after all; its ENDOGENOUS testosterone and not a synthetic source of it. I like to take myself as an example, I still can obtain over 2000ng/dl naturally and am not that big of a dude, but I got plenty of ANDROGENIC attributes.
    Are you saying that endogenous testosterone levels released by the HPTA axis...the thing that sky rockets during puberty in men...has no effect on strength, recovery, and muscle mass?

  24. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    Are you saying that endogenous testosterone levels released by the HPTA axis...the thing that sky rockets during puberty in men...has no effect on strength, recovery, and muscle mass?
    I think what he was trying to get at, Please correct me if I am wrong, is that if you already hover at the top of the normal range (say 1200ng) then going to slightly above the normal range (say 1400ng) will not have a tremendous noticable effect. This is not the same as say when a male going through puberty goes from very low testosterone (pre-puberty) and his body starts producing test in the normal range for an adult male (say 1000ng). That represents a significant change in the homeostatic environment which is really the link to anabolism, not any particular level of test. So a significant change in test level over any particula person's baseline (which can be different person to person of course) is what leads to the effects we usually associated with increased testosterone (not the level of the testosterone itself).

    So a 347% increase should do something. But if that effect is only for people at the bottom of the normal range or below normal then for people with high normal baseline test the % increase may only be 20% and that is likely not noticable subjectively.

    Mr.50

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    I think what he was trying to get at, Please correct me if I am wrong, is that if you already hover at the top of the normal range (say 1200ng) then going to slightly above the normal range (say 1400ng) will not have a tremendous noticable effect. This is not the same as say when a male going through puberty goes from very low testosterone (pre-puberty) and his body starts producing test in the normal range for an adult male (say 1000ng). That represents a significant change in the homeostatic environment which is really the link to anabolism, not any particular level of test. So a significant change in test level over any particula person's baseline (which can be different person to person of course) is what leads to the effects we usually associated with increased testosterone (not the level of the testosterone itself).

    So a 347% increase should do something. But if that effect is only for people at the bottom of the normal range or below normal then for people with high normal baseline test the % increase may only be 20% and that is likely not noticable subjectively.

    Mr.50

    Well the reason why i ask is that according to his post(unless i misread it)....even if there is a 347% increase due to the bulbine...it would make a difference since the test is being released endogenously.

    Me...a perfectly healthy 23 year old male never having used a hormonal cycle...suddenly expereinces a 347% increase in testosterone, i dont care if its exogenous(which shutdown the HPTA) or endogenous...i will definitely note an increase in training performance.

    The decrease in endogenous testosterone has been well documented in the research literature to negatively effect training performance and various other factors(including cognitive ability if i remember an article i read not too long ago). Endogenous levels of testosterone are vital for training and if they drop, you will know it. If they raise, well it can only help. Even if a 20% raise helps an extra 5% in overal gains...ill gladly take that 5% considering these are safe gains with no short or long term side effects.

  26. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    Well the reason why i ask is that according to his post(unless i misread it)....even if there is a 347% increase due to the bulbine...it would make a difference since the test is being released endogenously.

    Me...a perfectly healthy 23 year old male never having used a hormonal cycle...suddenly expereinces a 347% increase in testosterone, i dont care if its exogenous(which shutdown the HPTA) or endogenous...i will definitely note an increase in training performance.

    The decrease in endogenous testosterone has been well documented in the research literature to negatively effect training performance and various other factors(including cognitive ability if i remember an article i read not too long ago). Endogenous levels of testosterone are vital for training and if they drop, you will know it. If they raise, well it can only help. Even if a 20% raise helps an extra 5% in overal gains...ill gladly take that 5% considering these are safe gains with no short or long term side effects.
    I have to agree with this. Long term side effects are a bear to deal with, thats why I want bulbine to be legit!
    for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come 1 Tim 4:8

  27. Quote Originally Posted by GoHardOrGoHme View Post
    Well the reason why i ask is that according to his post(unless i misread it)....even if there is a 347% increase due to the bulbine...it would make a difference since the test is being released endogenously.

    Me...a perfectly healthy 23 year old male never having used a hormonal cycle...suddenly expereinces a 347% increase in testosterone, i dont care if its exogenous(which shutdown the HPTA) or endogenous...i will definitely note an increase in training performance.

    The decrease in endogenous testosterone has been well documented in the research literature to negatively effect training performance and various other factors(including cognitive ability if i remember an article i read not too long ago). Endogenous levels of testosterone are vital for training and if they drop, you will know it. If they raise, well it can only help. Even if a 20% raise helps an extra 5% in overal gains...ill gladly take that 5% considering these are safe gains with no short or long term side effects.

    No no.... I agree. BUT what I am saying is that the percentage increase is really the only relevant factor in determining if you "notice" a difference. The total level is really not that relevant because in a living system there are many other hormones that play a factor as well as neurological factors. So if your baseline is 1200ngs of Test then your body may or may not (depending on your body's internal set points for homeostasis) raise estrogen conversion, cortisol production, insuling sensitivity, etc to attempt to make sure the "anabolic" effect throughout your body does not go unchecked. So its the relative change compared to the baseline values (and their relationship to the baseline values of the other hormones and factors) that really tells the tale.

    Mr.50

  28. Quote Originally Posted by james122 View Post
    I have to agree with this. Long term side effects are a bear to deal with, thats why I want bulbine to be legit!
    I went back and reread the original poster's post (andrew) and I disagree with it based on my above explainations. Andrew obviously has a naturally occuring baseline value for test that is high but looking at that and using that with the factor that he is not that big of a guy (he said it not me) to reach a conclusion about if high endogenous test will produce an effect is an erroneous argument because it discounts the other internal factors in Andrew's body that may offset the anabolic effect of his high natural test.

    Mr.50

  29. Quote Originally Posted by Mr.50 View Post
    No no.... I agree. BUT what I am saying is that the percentage increase is really the only relevant factor in determining if you "notice" a difference. The total level is really not that relevant because in a living system there are many other hormones that play a factor as well as neurological factors. So if your baseline is 1200ngs of Test then your body may or may not (depending on your body's internal set points for homeostasis) raise estrogen conversion, cortisol production, insuling sensitivity, etc to attempt to make sure the "anabolic" effect throughout your body does not go unchecked. So its the relative change compared to the baseline values (and their relationship to the baseline values of the other hormones and factors) that really tells the tale.

    Mr.50

    You make an excellent point that I overlooked in our discussion. Good post.

  30. Good discussion happening in here and I have enjoyed reading these posts. That said, regardless of what the total % increase in free/total test is, the real question is how effective is it over a large population of users. Moreover, how will it perform for those using it standalone like GHGH will as a natural athlete versus someone like me who wants to use it after a cycle of Epi or anyone else using it after a hormonal cycle. Lastly, test needs to be raised for more than just a few weeks to be truly effective so if this cannot be ran for say 8 weeks where you test is elevated for 6 of those weeks to a much higher than baseline level, it may not really be worth the cost. Some may disagree with this but for anyone who has taken a natural test booster, most agree that those runs are best at 8 weeks in length and produce the most gains that way as well.
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