the goal with DAA

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by adawg4929 View Post
    Yea i think PP started recommending that becuase the study was only done over a 12 day peroid, however the product they ran the study on(Daviadt or soemthign) is recommended to run for 90 days at a time. So i definitly wouldnt do 12 on 12 off.
    You have to remember this: recommendations will be made based on the clinical evidence/findings that are shown to be "clinically and statistically significant." That does NOT mean these recommendations are safe or more therapeutic in nature; it's basically an educated guess. Until further long-term duration studies are completed, there is no way to say anything for sure.

    This is not to say that I don't agree here with the recommendation, just food for thought. Many people assume that the recommendations made in these studies are safe and effective; that is simply NOT true by any means. I could show you plenty of studies that started out like this only to find those recommendations to be completely refuted with no documented support.

    We based our recommendations on what was shown to be effective and relatively safe in the clinical study. This can/will be revised in the future if an alternate dosing regime is found to be superior; and safe. I've just completed 24 days with our TCF-1 as an experiment with myself. I've been very pleased with the results.


    -John

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary



  2. Quote Originally Posted by adawg4929 View Post
    thats very weird, maybe D will have an explanation for us...
    Seems just like one of the cases where everyone responds differently. He found a product that wasn't for him unfortunetly.

    You're right though, Dr. D might have a little (science)
    •   
       


  3. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    You have to remember this: recommendations will be made based on the clinical evidence/findings that are shown to be "clinically and statistically significant." That does NOT mean these recommendations are safe or more therapeutic in nature; it's basically an educated guess. Until further long-term duration studies are completed, there is no way to say anything for sure.

    This is not to say that I don't agree here with the recommendation, just food for thought. Many people assume that the recommendations made in these studies are safe and effective; that is simply NOT true by any means. I could show you plenty of studies that started out like this only to find those recommendations to be completely refuted with no documented support.

    We based our recommendations on what was shown to be effective and relatively safe in the clinical study. This can/will be revised in the future if an alternate dosing regime is found to be superior; and safe. I've just completed 24 days with our TCF-1 as an experiment with myself. I've been very pleased with the results.


    -John
    bloodwork done after 24 days?
    i am wondering if, after 24 days, Estrogen becomes an issue...

  4. Hi guys I'm looking into DAA, can anyone comment on my stack/doseage??

    DAA - 3g - Morning pre workout
    EGCG - 250mg - Morning pre workout


    P-5-P/ZMA nutraplanet.com/product/now-foods/adam-90-vcaps.html - Would that be enough b6 and zma?
    GABA - 2-5g?? - 30mins before bed
    L-Dopa - ???g - 30mins before bed IUN is out of this :/



    any input on this?nutraplanet.com/product/millennium-sport-technologies/athlytes-atp-100-caps.html

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Killerkanadia View Post
    Seems just like one of the cases where everyone responds differently. He found a product that wasn't for him unfortunetly.

    You're right though, Dr. D might have a little (science)
    Everyone is different like you said, but moderate doses seem to support libido while higher doses can discourage it slightly. The response curve reminds me of yohimbine. I've noticed this phenomena myself, but it's very subtle. Performance is not affected, just libido/drive itself.

    NMDA agonists and partial agonists can demonstrate the property of enhanced fear extinction. I suspect this means that long-term, you might lose many fear driven behaviors. It's not like sex is a scary thing (unless you're married, j/k ) but there is a CNS excitation component no less. I think that DAA might recalibrate your mind in subtle ways like this over time, to reduce compulsive reward/punishment anticipations. Things like the drive for sex, drugs, etc.. might slowly relinquish their obsessional components. That's just a theory of mine at this point, there could be more overt endocrine effects that explain the loss of libido though.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by muscl3s View Post
    i am wondering if, after 24 days, Estrogen becomes an issue...
    nope, it is not a problem at all.

  7. Since this thread has finally started to die down after 7 pages, I, the OP, would like to give it some conclusion. Although DAA fans showed up to stick up for their product in the seconed half of this thread, their were some horror stories of this stuff causing anxiety in the beginning. The idea of taking 3 grams per day of something that may pass the blood brain barrier and increase brain toxins still has me scared. Supposedly you can take another supp to fight this effect, but how often dose a supplement really make a health problem completely go away?

    One guy said he lost libido. I suspect that he already had pretty high test, so for him the boost probably caused some etrogen, or maby he had high body fat or who knows.

    As Trauma1 said, the only REAL RESEARCH is on the twelve day cycle, and any thing somebody suggest is just an educated guess. For something that might make your body respond to two weeks of training more like two and a half weeks of training, I think Ill still have to take some time before I give it a yay or a nay.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    As Trauma1 said, the only REAL RESEARCH is on the twelve day cycle, and any thing somebody suggest is just an educated guess. For something that might make your body respond to two weeks of training more like two and a half weeks of training, I think Ill still have to take some time before I give it a yay or a nay.
    The product used in that twelve day study is recommended by the manufacturers to be used for 90 days straight, and is widely used that way in Italy.
    Antus Labs rep

  9. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    The product used in that twelve day study is recommended by the manufacturers to be used for 90 days straight, and is widely used that way in Italy.
    AGAIN, that's an educated guess based on the clinical findings. Who cares what the Italians' are doing? If they jumped off a bridge, would you because they "recommended it?" Keep in mind, there is ZERO support for this recommendation in the current. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing either way here, but I'm certainly being realistic with the science involved.


    - John

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  10. Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    As Trauma1 said, the only REAL RESEARCH is on the twelve day cycle, and any thing somebody suggest is just an educated guess. For something that might make your body respond to two weeks of training more like two and a half weeks of training, I think Ill still have to take some time before I give it a yay or a nay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    AGAIN, that's an educated guess based on the clinical findings. Who cares what the Italians' are doing? If they jumped off a bridge, would you because they "recommended it?" Keep in mind, there is ZERO support for this recommendation in the current. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing either way here, but I'm certainly being realistic on the science involved.


    - John
    Do we have to TALK IN CAPS around here to get our points across? In the current what? My point was that it depends on what you consider "REAL RESEARCH". If hundreds of people have done it with no ill-effects - I don't care what country they are from - it demonstrates at least some degree of safety, despite the fear-mongering around here.
    Antus Labs rep
    •   
       


  11. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    Do we have to TALK IN CAPS around here to get our points across? In the current what? My point was that it depends on what you consider "REAL RESEARCH". If hundreds of people have done it with no ill-effects - I don't care what country they are from - it demonstrates at least some degree of safety, despite the fear-mongering around here.
    Maybe it's because you don't talk or even think "REAL RESEARCH" and bring your typical bullsh*t to yet another board. Keep telling yourself henry that anecdotal info displayed on the internet is proof in science. The interwebz is serious bizniz, though, right? Guess what, it isn't. It demonstrates jack ****. Shall we go over the numerous unknowns that can exist in an environment that isn't controlled?

    I love your apparent flawed rationale here, though. It must be safe because random people with an unfathomable amount of unknowns said it's safe... If you're going to make that recommendation you probably should state "at your own risk" since nothing supports it scientifically.

    You're a fish out of water in science, and one day you'll eventually realize that one fail after another...

    Here's the difference between you and me: I'm realistic; you'll gladly take any blind leap of faith apparently because someone said so. Take another shot in the dark while you're at it...



    -John

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  12. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    Maybe it's because you don't talk or even think "REAL RESEARCH" and bring your typical bullsh*t to yet another board. Keep telling yourself henry that anecdotal info displayed on the internet is proof in science. The interwebz is serious bizniz, though, right? Guess what, it isn't. It demonstrates jack ****. Shall we go over the numerous unknowns that can exist in an environment that isn't controlled?

    I love your apparent flawed rationale here, though. It must be safe because random people with an unfathomable amount of unknowns said it's safe... If you're going to make that recommendation you probably should state "at your own risk" since nothing supports it scientifically.

    You're a fish out of water in science, and one day you'll eventually realize that one fail after another...

    Here's the difference between you and me: I'm realistic; you'll gladly take any blind leap of faith apparently because someone said so. Take another shot in the dark while you're at it...



    -John
    My typical bull****? **** you.
    Antus Labs rep

  13. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    My typical bull****? **** you.
    LOL!! You're out of your league, son...


    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  14. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    LOL!! You're out of your league, son...

    So not only do we have to use caps around here to make a point, we have to insult each other to win an argument? I thought you were better than that.
    Antus Labs rep

  15. Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    So not only do we have to use caps around here to make a point, we have to insult each other to win an argument? I thought you were better than that.
    I am, henry. I'm tired of you subtly attacking either a comment I make or Primordial Performance in general across the boards. I'm not an argumentative person, but I can't stand arrogance. Anyone that knows me in general will attest to the fact that I'm not typically someone who's on the attack to prove anything. I speak from my own knowledge and experience within science, and hopefully that can help someone on these boards.

    I can just as easily admit when I'm wrong as to when I'm right. I appreciate and enjoy a good discussion; however, I don't like when things that aren't fact are presented as such.

    This is not about winning any argument. Hopefully we can either agree, or agree to disagree at this point.


    AM has a good group of guys. The intelligent discourse that is displayed here is why this place is my home.



    -John

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  16. HenryV is the one who started getting argumentative.
  17. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    And Trauma is right, the italian group says to use for 90 days, but doesn't appear to have clinical studies showing that it safe for that, its just their labeling that says it.
    Animis Rep
    facebook.com/xAnimis
    animis.org/forum

  18. I might have missed it.... But can you incorporate DAA in PCT?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by Xpballer View Post
    I might have missed it.... But can you incorporate DAA in PCT?
    yup
    CELTIC LABS REP

  20. Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    HenryV is the one who started getting argumentative.
    How did I start getting argumentative? I only pointed out excessive use of caps, which is widely frowned upon as shouting on the internet. I was then attacked and insulted.
    Antus Labs rep

  21. No one on the block got swagger like us ...sorry I thought alittle song would lighten the mood hehe

    I just started week 4 of a 5 week hdrol cycle and will be starting tfc-1 next week with my pct...I can't wait. This will be my 2nd time using tcf. I def saw strength gains my first bottle.

  22. Q:
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    How did I start getting argumentative? I only pointed out excessive use of caps, which is widely frowned upon as shouting on the internet. I was then attacked and insulted.
    A:
    Quote Originally Posted by henryv View Post
    My typical bull****? **** you.
    I'm not trying to get involved in this argument, but you are clearly the instigator in this particular conversation.

    Also, you're argumentative "tactics" are completely unappealing. I seldom see board representatives behaving in such a combative manner, but when I do; it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by hoopem6 View Post
    I'm not trying to get involved in this argument, but you are clearly the instigator in this particular conversation.

    Also, you're argumentative "tactics" are completely unappealing. I seldom see board representatives behaving in such a combative manner, but when I do; it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    Maybe you didn't notice, but the post above the one of mine that you quoted contained several insults aimed at me.
    Antus Labs rep

  24. Oh can we put this too rest? If you too want to bicker back and forth, take it to PM's

    There is no long term testing done on this stuff. Some people have run it for 90+ days with no issue. Hell, 100,000 people could run it at 6g a day for 100+ plus days with no issue. That doesn't mean there is no problems with running DAA for that long. everybody is different. You could be that one person out of 100,000 at experiences "sides" after prolonged use, or experiences an "imbalance" effect when stopping dosage.

    No matter how many people take it, and experience no problems, dosing should always be taken with caution. Nobody wants to see anybody here experience any negative effect from anything. So its always stressed to listen to your body, and pay attention to things that don't feel right.


    Fear-mongering? There is nothing of the kind here. People merely stress that the potential for problems is always there, when supplementing with something. Pay attention to your body. That's anyone tries to instill.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    I can just as easily admit when I'm wrong as to when I'm right.
    in for one example of trama admitting to being wrong. ever. srs.

    inb4 drone army






  26. well said lonewolf

  27. Honestly, I would feel comfortrable taking this stuf for years and hoping nothing bad would happen during those years. The real fear though, is not that anything bad will happen while your on it. It's that all the weird stuff we put in out bodies will catch up to us when were old.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by j3ffbeck View Post
    in for one example of trama admitting to being wrong. ever. srs.

    inb4 drone army





    You got it.

    I was wrong for taking my point too far and losing my cool in the mix here. It's not my typical demeanor by any stretch, but we all have bad days where our actions or thoughts (for whatever reason) fall outside our ability to effectively control them. This should have been taken to PM's. I'm not perfect; nor would I ever presume to be.

    I enjoy a good intellectual debate. This is one reason why I love it here on AM. My apologies to all (including henry) for losing my cool and displaying insult when it wasn't called for or warranted.

    I'm very passionate about science and my career. I think difference of opinion is good, but it bothers me when theory is presented as fact with clinical research/findings; because much of my career has been involved in that aspect of medicine. We all learn something new everyday, so hopefully now this thread gets back on track.



    -John

    Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
    Legendary


  29. Quote Originally Posted by Trauma1 View Post
    You got it.

    I was wrong for taking my point too far and losing my cool in the mix here. It's not my typical demeanor by any stretch, but we all have bad days where our actions or thoughts (for whatever reason) fall outside our ability to effectively control them. ...
    I like to think I've gotten better over the years here, but I still catch myself doing it too sometimes, so join the club brotha cuz you ain't alone! lol

  30. Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Performance View Post
    It should be fine to continue using for a month or two straight. We will probably change our dosing recommendations soon.

    -Eric
    ^ Lean Bulk

    Quote Originally Posted by Primordial Performance View Post
    We are taking the stance now that it should be fine to go as long as 90 days on this product.

    We will be making dosing recommendations to reflect this.

    -Eric
    ^ Lean Bulk
    Antus Labs rep
  

  
 

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