the goal with DAA

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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr View Post
    at the start of me using DAA I had a euphoric feeling back in June. now for the past week or so I have had alot of anxiety. the anxiety begins about an hour or so after dosing. yesterday i took half the dose (2 caps) and the their was not any anxiety. today i took 3 caps and I kinda have it again. Its anxiety and paranoia all in one. For me the strength gains and muscle fullness is incredible. I hate to have to stop it but I think I have to. Out of all the test boosters I have used this for me has been the strongest by far.
    When you say caps, are you talking about the propadrol? becuase thats not JUST DAA in them, its also directly n-methyl da, as well as some other items. I dont' recall any pure DAA product out there. The n-methyl da is definitely questionable for long term use, or high dose use.
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    I am just using DAA PURE which are in capsules. 4 capsules are in a serving.
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    I just ordered test force from nutraplanet
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    Hey lonewolf how long have you been using the DAA brand?
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    I used TestForce for 52days (two tubs)

    Today is day three, supplementing with NP's DAA.
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    Interesting. Cause the studies were all done with sodium d aspartate rather than d aspartic acid. Granted thats what you end up with in the bloodstream, but I wonder if using straight DAA is the cause.
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    I don't no but I am glad I am not the only one
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    neither propadrol or tcf-1 caused anxiety in me but it could be based off the individual. because when i ran DTHC + DTP i got it a few times, for the first time in my life. i never heard anyone else having those effects from the diesel products.
    CELTIC LABS REP
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    Kinda glad it not just me, but if it is the DAA, then I'll just switch back to using TestForce. I had no issues with that.
    If it is the DAA, I would wonder if its the molecule itself, or a rapid increase in test screwing with your dopamine, seratonin ratios. I don't wanna stick up for it too much, but it probably dose work better that a lot of the products containg ingrediants like DIM.
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    EasyEJL: Shouldn't you be posting information about NMDA agonists, not antagonists? DAA causing anxiety makes perfect sense. DAA preferentially accumulates in the Testes and anterior hypothalamus (LH rise and sTAR activity are the main methods for testosterone boost in vivo)

    DAA easily crosses the BBB and at least soem will convert into NMDA. The excitotoxicity is definitely a concern.
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  12. Never enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnTheRoadTo View Post
    EasyEJL: Shouldn't you be posting information about NMDA agonists, not antagonists? DAA causing anxiety makes perfect sense. DAA preferentially accumulates in the Testes and anterior hypothalamus (LH rise and sTAR activity are the main methods for testosterone boost in vivo)

    DAA easily crosses the BBB and at least soem will convert into NMDA. The excitotoxicity is definitely a concern.
    crap, you are right, I was out of it when I looked that up and copy/pasted it (vicodins for the torn hamstring)
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    Could the problem lie in the extended duration of D-AA use? Wouldn't the standardized 12 on/12 off dosing protocol help mitigate the possibility of potential side effects?
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    why would DAA bother someone but not the testforce? aren't they the same?
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    Yes, I think so, much like extended use of aspartame. But there's your catch 22. Probably wouldn't do a whole lot at twelve days but over twelve days may be too much. Actually that was part of my whole thought process when i started writing about this and stating that it wouldn't be around long. I can give you a buttload of the real deal and you ain't gonna get a whole lot in that time period. Actually that was an experimental dosing for steriods back in the early eighties. HIGH doses for short periods. Just didn't pan out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr View Post
    why would DAA bother someone but not the testforce? aren't they the same?
    no, they aren't. Testforce is D-Aspartate Calcium Chelate. So theres likely a difference in time it takes for the body to strip the calcium off, so the DAA is released into bloodstream slower, rather than a lump all at once.
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    I cant believe some of you guys are still stuck on the 12 day thing. The 12 days study was done because that's how long the study was for. That's all! In fact its recommend to take for a 90 day period by people who paid for the study. I already posted about it before on these forums. I'll have to dig up the link again...
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no, they aren't. Testforce is D-Aspartate Calcium Chelate. So theres likely a difference in time it takes for the body to strip the calcium off, so the DAA is released into bloodstream slower, rather than a lump all at once.
    Being Chelated, it is more bioavalible and ingested very easily compared to the clump of daa powder sitting in your small intestine.
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    well i can't wait for the testforce to arrive. hey lonewolf how much did you take daily of the testforce? 3 grams or 6 grams? i never loaded the DAAPURE but I had great physical results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    Yes, I think so, much like extended use of aspartame. But there's your catch 22. Probably wouldn't do a whole lot at twelve days but over twelve days may be too much. Actually that was part of my whole thought process when i started writing about this and stating that it wouldn't be around long. I can give you a buttload of the real deal and you ain't gonna get a whole lot in that time period. Actually that was an experimental dosing for steriods back in the early eighties. HIGH doses for short periods. Just didn't pan out.
    Well, the whole "42% increase in total testosterone" was based on the 12 day doing protocol. Which, in turn, seems pretty effective given the duration of use...

    I guess I just don't understand why a user would divert from a 12 day dosing protocol to months of continuous use. Especially when little is known regarding possible side effects of extended, long-term, use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal2 View Post
    I cant believe some of you guys are still stuck on the 12 day thing. The 12 days study was done because that's how long the study was for. That's all! In fact its recommend to take for a 90 day period by people who paid for the study. I already posted about it before on these forums. I'll have to dig up the link again...
    Keep in mind it's still a relatively new compound. I mean, why be a guinea pig when there could be a potential excitotoxic concern?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal2 View Post
    Being Chelated, it is more bioavalible and ingested very easily compared to the clump of daa powder sitting in your small intestine.
    Really? You have studies to show this? because again, your body still has to cleave the calcium from the aspartate, and DAA's molecular weight is relatively tiny so it should pass through intestines fairly readily.
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    I would expect the best way to mitigate DAA effects would be to load it @ 3g for 15 days and then use a low maintenance dose - it accumulates in the target tissues, and a low circulating level may prevent excitotoxic sides. I would also use a low dose AI, as this should be very synergistic with DAA.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanzdslpwr View Post
    well i can't wait for the testforce to arrive. hey lonewolf how much did you take daily of the testforce? 3 grams or 6 grams? i never loaded the DAAPURE but I had great physical results.
    I dose 3g each day. 6g a day isn't cost effective for me.
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    Also, note that in the 12 on/off study, the T boost tapered off slowly, while users report anxiety ceasing soon after discontinuation.
    Paging Dr. Banner. . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal2 View Post
    Has nothing to do with cholesterol, I got this from another forum and they aren't my words.

    "DAA is thought to increase LH, FSH and test by interacting with the hypothalumus to produce increased concentrations of GnRH which will stimulate the pituitary to release LH and FSH, which then mediate test release and sexual function in the testes."
    DAA works by several mechanisms. One of which is to increase the StAR mediated uptake of cholesterol in the testes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unclebuck View Post
    I'm not in the same league with Dr.D. but I'm gonna go on record and say this stuff is going the way of the dinosaur. I've read enough to believe that DAA is an excitotoxin. Why don't you read up on that and all that it entails.(The LEAST of which is anxiety, which I do believe it can cause or contribute to.) I've never felt that the 40 percent test rise would do anything at all as far as strength/muscle building. I also believe that the effects on libido level off fairly quickly. Its been out long enough to form some opinions. Where are the posts that state that it actually did something? They are all vague. If this was a keeper we would know it by now. I am not a negative guy and I love my supplements so if I am wrong, somebody show me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    we are not injecting DAA into our brains. I have read the studies where they use nmda to induce neuronal death and they produce localized concentrations that are magnitudes greater than could ever be acheived by oral ingestion of DAA at realistic dosages.

    Dont forget that DAA is an endogenous substance with a vital neuroendocrine role. Its not some toxin that your body makes as a byproduct or something
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    certainly the levels are higher than normal, but they simply do not approach levels (at target areas) seen in studies where NMDA is used as a tool to induce nerve damage

    you are entitled to your opinion and if you choose to err on the side of caution and not use the product thats fine. i understand you are not saying "its dangerous" and you are simply asking if i am concerned about the potential.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    d-serine (and cycloserine) is also an agonist at the NMDA receptors. The difference is that it is concentrated in tissues other than the endocrine related ones that DAA and NMDA are. It actually has had alot of research done on it as a treatment for schizophrenia, and at doses of 2-3 grams a day. It is considered thusfar to be safe. You could make the same case that you are making here with DAA with this investigational drug.

    I just say this so you dont think i am a nut outside the realm of responsible medical science.
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Arnold View Post
    the italian group that funded the study recommends their daa product be taken for 90 days btw.

    i am not worried about bad estrogen. no reason why a larger dose would cause any change in test estrogen ratio, and it is the ratio that matters NOT total E

    prolactin is usually a problem only in an estrogen dominant environment and that should not happen with this stuff.

    btw did you know that prolactin is very similar in amino acid sequence to GH, and shares much of its anabolic properties? i am not saying prolactin is the best thing but sliced bread but its not 100% evil either
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    I don't think prolactin is really an issue with this supplement. alot of the aspartic acid supplements coming out have anti prolactin ingredients like T-UP and NMDA by Muscle warfare
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonewolf0420 View Post
    I've been through two containers of the TestForce, and never had this kinda feeling. I guess I just wait and see if its coincidence or not.

    Along with taking my DAA in the morning, I'm also taking OxyElite and LX upon waking.
    Yeah, it's that NMDA activating effect. The DL form is really bad about it as I mentioned earlier. Anytime you get that feeling strongly, you may be extra sensitive or your source may have supplied you with DL. Out of all the raw materials I tested, 3 out of 4 that claimed to be D were really DL. Be careful and stick with a supplier who does analysis by Polarimetry.

    Also, I've noticed that pretreatment with a racetam (piracetam, aniracetam, etc..) seem to attenuate the right NMDA sub-receptor to discourage the CNS sides from DAA, without interfering with the endocrine benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no, they aren't. Testforce is D-Aspartate Calcium Chelate. So theres likely a difference in time it takes for the body to strip the calcium off, so the DAA is released into bloodstream slower, rather than a lump all at once.
    Combining Calcium with DAA can increase it's efficacy, but also it's side effects unfortunately. I don't like to take extra Calcium beyond what I get in my diet. It promotes kidney stones over time (especially in juicers) and reduces the absorption and benefits of magnesium (which I do supplement every night.)
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    I figure since I'm probably well saturated, I'm gonna try dropping the dose by 650mg.
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