Nabisco's Unnatural Transformation (PP/Epi/Form TD STACK)

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  1. Senior Member
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    Day 17


    Dosed 30mg PP, 10mg Epi, 80mg Form TD today. Strength is still there, finishing out this week on my current plan, switching to DC style next week. I'll post the new workout plan next week.

    Workout

    Rotator Cuff Exercise to warm up. Stayed light on shoulders to test out how the joint was feeling.

    Seated Smith Machine Military Press
    65x10, 85x10, 105x10

    Lat Raises
    30x12, 35x8, 40x8

    BB Curls
    95x10, 95x8, 105x6

    Seated DB Curls
    30x15, 35x10, 40x7

    Skull Crushers (stayed light due to elbow tendons feeling a little tight)
    65x15, 65x12, 65x10

    One arm cable pushdowns
    60x12, 65x10, 70x8

    Leg Raises
    15, 15, 12

    Workout went well, felt strong the entire time. Endurance is sticking with me.

    Mood: Normal
    Energy: Fine even though I didnt get a ton of sleep
    Endurance: Great, all through workouts
    Libido: Still going strong
    Strength: Solid
    Joints: Getting a little dry, but will up fish oil and add super cissus when order gets here
    Weight: 185.5

    Alright, so far no sides during this cycle. However, eating nearly 4000 calories a day and I have gained maybe 2.5lbs in 2.5 weeks. Explain that **** to me. I'm also a little grouchy because Nutra took 4 days to process my order...highly unusual, one of the products I ordered must have been out or something. Go figure. My strength is sky rocketing but my weight is stationary and Im not leaning out I can tell you that. So help me figure out whats going on here.

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    The grouchiness is a sign of things to come my friend.

    I saw my best gains in week 3 and 4 of PP, so be patient and keep those cals high.
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    What do you mean by lat raises?
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    lateral raises, most likely.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    lateral raises, most likely.
    haha. man i feel stupid.
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    We all have those once in a while metroba

    I really think I was hardcore overtraining. I was researching symptoms and such, and although I was never sore, due to being on PP, I had finally started to lose my appetite, I was getting short tempered, and losing my drive. I think by taking today off, getting a good solid leg workout in tomorrow, then starting back up Monday with a DC style workout I'll get back on track. Im sad that my PP will be gone by sunday, but Im pretty stoked to be completely on Epistane for another couple of weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    We all have those once in a while metroba

    I really think I was hardcore overtraining. I was researching symptoms and such, and although I was never sore, due to being on PP, I had finally started to lose my appetite, I was getting short tempered, and losing my drive. I think by taking today off, getting a good solid leg workout in tomorrow, then starting back up Monday with a DC style workout I'll get back on track. Im sad that my PP will be gone by sunday, but Im pretty stoked to be completely on Epistane for another couple of weeks.
    good plan.
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    do you need the Form on PP or is there another reason you are using it?
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    It's not detrimental but helps control estrogen levels fairly well with the PP.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    I was using the Form TD for a couple reasons.

    1) Like prld2gr8ns said, I wanted to try to lean out the gains from PP and

    2) Because i thought that my "chest fat" may have been gyno, and Form TD has been known to significantly reduce gyno (or so some of the members here have experienced)

    Sadly it wasn't gyno, my body just deposits fat on my chest at around 12-13% bf. This is to genetics
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    In that case when you go on a cut those will go bye, bye. A much better situation really.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Dont sweat it...I'm probably around 9% and I still hold water under my nipples...it's just genetics. I honestly think it would take a sub 7% body fat to lose it.
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    Genetics can be depressing sometimes can't they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    Genetics can be depressing sometimes can't they?

    You know it.

    "Genetics, that's why God made Steroids"
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    Day 21


    Quick update. Last few days have been tough, keep getting called in to work. Haven't hit the gym since wednesday, and lethargy has kicked my ass lately. Worst part of it all is that I had to lower protein down below 250g/day and make an emergency order to NP for some Gut Health. My inside were torn up, not in a good way...in a painful to sh1t way. Since I dropped protein down my bowels have started to return to normal. I'll ramp back up once I get some Gut Health.

    Hopefully **** will be back to normal this week and I'll get a chance to hit the gym mon, tues, thurs, friday.

    Will give more info tomorrow, as Im on the run again today. Got called in to work again...so much for having a weekend.
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    Hey Nabisco, I have the same chest fat problem as you and i found that once i limited dairy to my diet it seemed to reduce it. So maybe you should try cutting the cottage cheese and milk adding some casein. Its just my opinion though
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    Day 21


    Quick update. Last few days have been tough, keep getting called in to work. Haven't hit the gym since wednesday, and lethargy has kicked my ass lately. Worst part of it all is that I had to lower protein down below 250g/day and make an emergency order to NP for some Gut Health. My inside were torn up, not in a good way...in a painful to sh1t way. Since I dropped protein down my bowels have started to return to normal. I'll ramp back up once I get some Gut Health.

    Hopefully **** will be back to normal this week and I'll get a chance to hit the gym mon, tues, thurs, friday.

    Will give more info tomorrow, as Im on the run again today. Got called in to work again...so much for having a weekend.
    Dam sorry to hear about all that man... hope things start picking back up for the better this week.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Were all rootn for ya Nabisco.
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    Day 22

    Thanks for the support gents. Body is back to normal today, I'm going to slowly up calories again until Gut Health arrives later this week. I am now currently running 10mg PP (just getting rid of those extra couple of pills) and 30mg Epi. I think I'll continue to run 30mg Epi until in runs out so about 4 weeks. My Incarnate has also ran out, and will be substituted with USPs Super Cissus Rx to continue with joint support. Most important thing is Im back on track, and fired up to get some kick ass results in the month of cycle I have left.

    Here is the new DC style program that I've put together, and by "I've put together" I mean stolen blatently from PumpingIron (Thanks PI). I've changed a few of the exercises to suit myself and my gym's limitations.

    I'll update tonight with a weigh-in and my workout.

    2 On, 1 Off, 2 On, 2 Off
    2-4 warmup sets, 1 Working Set: Rest-Pause(3) to failure

    Day 1a
    Incline Smith Press
    BB Military Press
    CG Smith Bench Press
    Cable Pulldowns
    Deadlifts

    Day 2a
    Flat DB Press
    Smith Military Press (Behind Head)
    Cable Pushdowns
    Wide Grip Pullups
    T-Bar Rows

    Day 3a
    Decline Smith Press
    DB Military Press
    Skullcrushers
    Rev. Grip Pulldowns
    BB Rows

    Day 1b
    Concentration Curls
    Reverse Preachers Curls
    Machine Standing Calf Raises
    Lying Leg Curls
    Squats

    Day 2b
    BB Curls
    Shrugs
    Smith Machine Calf Raises (toes out)
    SLDL
    Leg Extensions

    Day 3b
    Alt. DB Curls
    BB Wrist Curls
    Smith machine Calf Raises (toes in)
    Good Mornings
    Smith Machine Hack Squat
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    I'm gettin started with this today too...best of luck.

    Everythin I know about DC is from Ubi, Beelze and Dante's writings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    Day 22

    Thanks for the support gents. Body is back to normal today, I'm going to slowly up calories again until Gut Health arrives later this week. I am now currently running 10mg PP (just getting rid of those extra couple of pills) and 30mg Epi. I think I'll continue to run 30mg Epi until in runs out so about 4 weeks. My Incarnate has also ran out, and will be substituted with USPs Super Cissus Rx to continue with joint support. Most important thing is Im back on track, and fired up to get some kick ass results in the month of cycle I have left.

    Here is the new DC style program that I've put together, and by "I've put together" I mean stolen blatently from PumpingIron (Thanks PI). I've changed a few of the exercises to suit myself and my gym's limitations.

    I'll update tonight with a weigh-in and my workout.

    2 On, 1 Off, 2 On, 2 Off
    2-4 warmup sets, 1 Working Set: Rest-Pause(3) to failure

    Day 1a
    Incline Smith Press
    BB Military Press
    CG Smith Bench Press
    Cable Pulldowns
    Deadlifts

    Day 2a
    Flat DB Press
    Smith Military Press (Behind Head)
    Cable Pushdowns
    Wide Grip Pullups
    T-Bar Rows

    Day 3a
    Decline Smith Press
    DB Military Press
    Skullcrushers
    Rev. Grip Pulldowns
    BB Rows

    Day 1b
    Concentration Curls
    Reverse Preachers Curls
    Machine Standing Calf Raises
    Lying Leg Curls
    Squats

    Day 2b
    BB Curls
    Shrugs
    Smith Machine Calf Raises (toes out)
    SLDL
    Leg Extensions

    Day 3b
    Alt. DB Curls
    BB Wrist Curls
    Smith machine Calf Raises (toes in)
    Good Mornings
    Smith Machine Hack Squat
    sounds good might be going this route soon too
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycste View Post
    sounds good might be going this route soon too
    thanks for the libido check, that avatar is killer.
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    nabisco, im curious are you still doing the formestane? if you are have you noticed anything yet?btw glad your back on track.
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    I think your going to like the tut style nabisco. Good to see you getting back on track.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Be patient man, weeks 3-4 are the best as long as you have your cals up, particularly carbs. Dont let the lathargy get to you and stop you from attaining your goals. Every cycle has its ups and downs, sometimes they are a little bigger than most.

    PP def shouldnt be shutting down your appetite, it sounds like what i recently went through with just too much food, too fast that the body jsut starts to reject it.

    Instead of waiting for Gut health, go pick up some acidiphilous (should be available locally at a vitimin store). 40-50 mgs a day was a BIG help and i noticed the appetite rebound right away. Also try eating smaller meals.
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    I appreciate all the advice guys. I had my first DC style workout last night and I really liked it. I mean I LOVED it. I could really focus my intensity into that one working set. I wasn't spending 1.5 hours in the gym loading weight on and off the racks. I weighed in again yesterday 185lbs and not moving. I'm hoping that this new style of training is really going to help me explode past the 190 mark in the next four weeks.

    I've been talking to one of the AX reps from their forum and I might have a little something extra to add to my cycle here soon. A little surprise for your gents if it comes through.

    Here was the workout yesterday...

    Smith Machine Incline Press
    4 warmup sets
    Working Set: 145x12x10x8 (way too light...I hadn't realized how much stronger I've gotten)

    Seated Military Press
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 105x8x5x3 (Not bad since my shoulder has just gotten to healing up...will increase weight next time)

    Smith Machine CG Bench
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 135x8x5x3 (light again, but was really trying to focus on controlled reps...will def increase next time)

    Pulldowns
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 160x8x5x3 (Had to go fairly light here, felt like I slightly tweaked my lower trap on one of the warmup sets. The belt slid over and caught up, so when I powered the bar down it caught and nearly yanked me out of my seat. ****ty piece of equipment)

    Deadlifts
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 275x8x5x3 (Never done that many reps before with this weight so I was pumped)

    I finished up by crushing some abdominals and using DC's technique to help shoulder's repair (hold a broomstick in front of you and come up over your head and as far back as possible for 50 reps. Only got 25, but its a start)

    I also tried the extreme stretching for my chest with 80lb dbs after the chest portion of my workout and WOW. I couldn't hold them longer than 20 seconds before the burn beat me and I dropped them. I'm going to work up to the whole hold for 60 sec deal. Also did the extreme stretching for shoulders, slowly will work the rest into the regiment.

    By the way gents, good news. 300 comes out on DVD today and I'm picking it up after work. If that movie isn't motivation, nothing is.
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    thebigt: I went back last week when I was feeling like absolute trash and tried to find which supplement I thought was causing the worst sides. And although I hadn't really reported it here in my log I had felt the loss of appetite, crazy a$$ bowel movements (no pun intended), building as the first few weeks of the cycle got underway. Only two things were being ramped up, the Pheraplex and the Form TD. I've used the PP before and not had these sides, so I pointed the finger at the Form TD. So I stopped the form td and the sides have subsided, but I also dropped my protein intake.

    So here is the deal, I'm not pointing the finger at the Form TD because I can't say one way or the other whether it was the cause or not. Perhaps I just reacted to the PP differently this time since it was higher dosages. But I wasn't seeing any results from the Form TD, no leaning out, no loss of fat, nothing that I could visibly see or measure in the three weeks I used it. So for me perhaps Im a non-responder or perhaps I just didn't go high enough on the dosages. Perhaps I'll work it back in towards the end of cycle and see what happens.
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    thanks for the honest report. it was only a matter of time i guess until someone didnt respond to formestane. sorry about your luck, formestane has been good to me.
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    Day 23


    Quick update

    Workout


    Concentration Curls
    3 warmup sets
    Working Set: 35x8x5x3 (too light...needs to go up)

    Reverse Preacher Curls
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 65x8x5x3 (definitely heavy enough)

    Machine Calf Raises
    3 warmup sets
    Working Set: 400x8x5x3 (PR for me, also maxed out the machine)

    Lying Leg Curls
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 125x8x5x3 (this is a weak point for me)

    Squats
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 225x8x5x3 (felt like I sprinted a mile after this set)

    Did some oblique work and more of DC's high rep shoulder stretches. Overall good workout...I've really got to focus on getting balls to the wall intense. Loving the DC style of lifting so far. We'll see what the results say in a few weeks.

    SHUT UP AND :squat: !
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    Nabisco, whats your rep scheme like? 2/3?
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    Im not sure what you're asking PI when you say 2/3? If you mean how long Im taking to push up, then how long on the negative its about 2 up 3 on the negative. I try for an explosive rep and a slow controlled negative motion.
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    Basically the first number is the number of seconds it takes to lower the weight and the 2nd bring the number of time it takes to raise the weight.

    You can always see it written as something like 2-1-3, where the 2nd number is a pause before you push the weight back up.
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    Then I'm probably a 2-1-3, and as the reps get harder sometimes I fall into the 2-0-3 scheme. As I've added more and more weight to reach the rep range of the DC style program Im finding it harder and harder to get explosive power on my reps. So its a 2-3 second negative portion, then I try to pause for a second, then try to push up which takes 3 sec moving up to 4 as I really push the weight and reps.
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    Perfect.
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    Day 25


    The explosion begins. In the past two days I decided I needed some major motivation...so I watched Pumping Iron, then I watched 300 and included in the specials on that DVD were how they trained to get so ripped. I hit the gym today with an attitude. My lifting partner is out until monday so I decided that I was going to go heavy and low rest. And man, let me tell you what. Best workout I've had in a while...I left the gym, sat down in my car, and my shirt was so wet that it felt like I sat in a chair made of water. By the way my official weigh in wont be until tomorrow, but I hit 189.6 today. A new PR for weight, and the strength just keeps coming.

    Workout


    DB Bench Press

    2 warmup sets (couldn't make myself do more, I was too pumped)
    Working Set: 85sx7x3x2

    Behind the head smith press
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 115x8x5x4 (will increase next time )

    Cable Pushdowns
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 160x8x5x3 (stacked out the machine...will have to find ways to add wait next time)

    Wide grip pullups
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: BW+25x8x3x3

    t-bar rows
    2 warmup sets
    Working Set: 205x8x5x3

    Finished the workout off with some jump rope, some light jogging, and then some core exercises. Walked out on fire, and sweating buckets. Awesome workout.

    As far as supps go, the Gut Health has worked wonders already. I can eat as much protein as I want, and its getting absorbed instead of tearing my ass up. Lethargy is a *****, but I'm pushing through it. I'm upping my intensity and when my training partner gets back if he doesn't step up the pace Im gonna truck right over him. Mood is almost sedated, strength is through the roof, not really leaner, but this is the first week of pure Epistane. Im adding cardio back in, in small amounts to see what happens. Probably swimming and such on off days. Ive decided, Im pretty much pure Ecto, because no matter how much I eat I don't seem to put on any more fat. Its just going to come down to losing what I have...I'd love to hit single digits. Will have another update tomorrow gents.

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    very nice glad the heavy weight low rest worked for ya. and yes man more then 60percent of your workouts is mental. get the mental part down and nothings stoppping you besides passing out :P

    im also only on epistane now and to be honest i still feel the same hehe. but i keep improving as anyone should with proper diet rest and routine.
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    First off GREAT log.

    Sorry if i missed this but why did you decide to go with the 2on, 1off, Split rather then the normal M-W-F Dc split?

    I suggest really living and dying by that log book. Before each excersise i look at my last times number, and get in my head what i HAVE to hit, and DO it. Also try and listen to your body, when you stall out at an excersise once, mabey chalk it up to a bad day, when you do it again SWAP it. Make sure you also listen to when your body tells you "time to cruise" for a while.

    I was introduced to DC style about 1.5 years ago. Did it for a while with great results, then was out of the gym for a while with an injury. Been Dc'ng again for some months now, and it is TRUELY an awesome routine when you do it right.

    Good luck brotha!
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    Oh i also noticed you are Rest pausing back thickness, and quads.. Those are not supposed to be rest paused. You don't want to injure yourself.


    For back thickness movements you want to do 2 straight sets.
    1.8-12 rep
    2. Heavy brutal set of 4-8

    QUADS
    1.6-10
    2. lower weight brutal widowmaker to 20. I use a weight were by 12 i feel like i am going to drop dead on the floor..lol If you have to stop for a breath or two, do so untill you get that 20. Don't re rack the weight though!

    Are you doing calves correctly?

    Forearms are also just one straight set of 12-20.
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    interesting talk here imprez
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    imprezivr6: Appreciate the help man. I'll change up for back thickness and quads. Not sure what you're asking about calves...forearms I'll switch up as well. I wanted to do the 2 on 1 off split with DC training because I wanted to get 4 solid workouts in a week. I was following some of the literature I could find and he suggested the MWF or the MTThF split if you felt up to it. I just feel that with four days I'll get more work in and grow faster. I'm pretty much pure ectomorph and only lifting 3 days a week in the past didn't do much for me gains-wise for either strength or weight. When I bump up to 4-5 days a week with some heavy lifting, my body tends to respond better. Just something I've noticed over the past few years. Once again, thanks for the clarification on DC style training. I'm new to it and bound to make some mistakes, so any advice is welcome. Peace.
  

  
 

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