Nabisco's Unnatural Transformation (PP/Epi/Form TD STACK)

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    Nabisco, just droppin in to check on your progress. Keep the cals up with Phera. When I ran it, I had really high Protein, Moderate carbs and Fats...and ended up with minimal fat gain.

    I saw the biggest gains in weeks 3 and 4 of my run...both in size and strength.

    As far as the chest thing is concerned, I think you are holding a little water around the nipple. I get the same thing from time to time. It will go away by dropping sodium, increasing water intake and upping the cardio a bit.

    Best of luck!

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    and make sure you apply 1 spray of formestane to each side of chest.
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    How does that feel with the sensitivity of the nipples, out of curiousity?
    •   
       

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    I love that forearm roller. Insane pumps in forearms. I look like popeye when im done.
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    I've been applying all my Form TD to my lower-mid chest. Im currently at 60mg/day split 12 hours apart. I've seen absolutely no change in the "chest fat" as I'm calling it. There is no hard lump, no sensitivity, no nothing. Just what feels similar to the fat covering my lower abs on the lower/outer portion of my pectorals. I'm not sure how to better explain it than that, it just annoys the **** out of me to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    How does that feel with the sensitivity of the nipples, out of curiousity?
    it hardens them up. makes it look like you got that wet look all the time. i like it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    I've been applying all my Form TD to my lower-mid chest. Im currently at 60mg/day split 12 hours apart. I've seen absolutely no change in the "chest fat" as I'm calling it. There is no hard lump, no sensitivity, no nothing. Just what feels similar to the fat covering my lower abs on the lower/outer portion of my pectorals. I'm not sure how to better explain it than that, it just annoys the **** out of me to be honest.
    just make sure that you get 1 full squirt on each pec. maybe you werent reacting to the lower dose. hang in there, ive not heard of anyone not getting results on form. 60mg, how many squirts are you using? has libido gone up?
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    Each squirt is roughly 10mg supposedly. So now I do two squirts per pectoral each morning and one squirt per pectoral each evening. Each time is after a shower, and then I stand under a low hanging ceiling fan for ~5 minutes. The only reaction I have is that my nipples firm up for a few minutes, but other than that no noticable reduction in chest fat. And I know Im getting Form out of the TD solution because some of it crystallizes on my pecs afterwards. Maybe I just need a higher dosage?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    Each squirt is roughly 10mg supposedly. So now I do two squirts per pectoral each morning and one squirt per pectoral each evening. Each time is after a shower, and then I stand under a low hanging ceiling fan for ~5 minutes. The only reaction I have is that my nipples firm up for a few minutes, but other than that no noticable reduction in chest fat. And I know Im getting Form out of the TD solution because some of it crystallizes on my pecs afterwards. Maybe I just need a higher dosage?
    wait a day or so. if you dont see improvement bump it up to 4 squirts 2x day. form acts quick, so you will know if you got the right dose pretty quick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    I've been applying all my Form TD to my lower-mid chest. Im currently at 60mg/day split 12 hours apart. I've seen absolutely no change in the "chest fat" as I'm calling it. There is no hard lump, no sensitivity, no nothing. Just what feels similar to the fat covering my lower abs on the lower/outer portion of my pectorals. I'm not sure how to better explain it than that, it just annoys the **** out of me to be honest.
    A lot of people complain about PP and it's ability to cause excessive water retention either thru aromitization or mineral retention via endogenous system effects(kidney -renin/angiotension)causing increase salt reabsorption and decreased water excretion as PI mentioned. Sounds like your chest issue is just coming from a realative moderate BF% and increased retention in the surrounding tissue. From your description it doesn't sound like an estrogen effect. One thing to keep in mind is that Form has no effect on chest fat, but theoretically can starve glandular tissue(gyno) of estrogen resulting in possible reduction 'glandular' tissue not fat tissue. If you have a higher percentage of fat tissue around the chest area, form will not have much of an effect on this... something along the lines of lipoderm would suffice for that problem.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Day 10


    Rough day at work, manufacturing line went down and I had to find and fix the problem so we could get back up an running. Long story short I missed my 9:30 meal and didnt get to eat until 11:30. To make up for this I pounded another meal at 1:30, then another just after 3:30. This caught me up on calories for the day. On to the workout.

    Workout:

    Hanging leg raises (to the sides for obliques)
    BWx10, BWx10, (strapped to chinup bar at this point) BWx18, BWx18, BWx16

    Squats
    205x12, 225x6, 245x4

    Leg Extensions
    125x12, 140x8, 160x6

    Leg Curls
    100x12, 110x8, 120x6

    Standing Machine Calf Raises
    250x15, 250x15, 260x15, 270x15, 300x10

    SLDLs
    155x10, 175x6, 195x4

    Goodmornings
    65x10, 85x6, 105x4

    15 minutes walking around the track.

    Pretty good workout overall. Didn't get the full amount of reps on my 2nd or 3rd set of squats, but was happy with the weight. It just felt heavy today. Leg Extensions were easy, will have to increase weight next leg day, Leg curls remain hard and I struggle to add weight to these. My calf raises are increasing but I want to be doing more than twice my body weight by the end of the cycle. SLDLs and Goodmornings are my heavy sets, hence the 10,6,4 instead of the normal 12,8,6 and those have been steadily increasing. So overall Im happy with the workout and with my progress. I'm kind of disappointed that I didnt get a second bottle of PP, because then I could have ran 3 full weeks of PP and the fourth been transition to Epi, as opposed to my current setup.

    Mood: Had to restrain myself today during a verbal altercation with one of the hourly employees at my job. DEFINITELY increase in aggression as Im normally easy going and just shrug stuff off.
    Libido: No noticeable change
    Energy: Good
    Endurance: Good
    Joints: I've spread out my stance for squats a little bit, just barely outside of shoulder width and its taken a lot of pressure off my knees
    Pumps: Slight back pumps from the heavy sets.
    Weight: 187.2 (+4.0) I'm expecting the gains to increase much more rapidly come next week. And I just have to keep telling myself I have 5 more weeks of PP then Epi after this week. Plenty of time to get over 200lbs.

    prld2gr8ns: I was afraid that it was just that my body comp carries fat in my chest. I'd definitely say Im around 13% bf, I was almost hoping it would be something that I could have get rid of with Form. I'll keep dosing the Form TD as I have scheduled for the cycle just to keep an AI in my system. I'll have to look up lipoderm as I've never really researched it before. I'm going to take your and PumpingIron's advice and decrease my sodium consumption and try to up my water intake. Its very difficult for me to get over 2 gallons of water a day.

    PumpingIron: Appreciate your input man, Im going to try to bump my protein over the 400 mark as best I can. And once I get into the Epistane, I'm going to cut back on some of the carbs and try to utilize its leaning effect that most people experience. Morning cardio (jump rope) will join my routine once I hit the Epistane as well. I want to use the PP to its best ability, bulking as much as I can with it.

    thebigt: Im gonna keep the form at 60mg/day for this week, but next week its definitely going up. I'll find my sweet spot soon.

    metroba: I agree, that forearm roller is the ****. I get such a better forearm workout with that than anything else.

    nycste: Thanks man, hopefully there are plenty more to come. I'd love to be able to throw up 315 on bench with excellent form just once. I'd have to video tape that ****, just to prove it to my friends back home, lol.
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    i know what you mean about keeping machines up and running. i work 3rd shift at a box factory. it gets hot as hell in there in the summer and tempers always get short.
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    Alright, need some opinions on this here. I'm soon going to order a mixture of supps I want to add in soon, as well as, for PCT. Tell me what you guys think. I'm figuring on spending 200-250 on these supps.

    Super Cissus Rx (Wanted to add this on top of Incarnate to see if it doesn't help my shoulder)
    Poseidon (Im gonna run out soon)
    Retain 2 (Have a bottle of the old retain, but its pretty old)
    X-lean (wanted to try something new, instead of Rebound)

    Sesamin? (Im almost out of fish oil, this seems like a reasonable substitute)

    Lecithin? (Arnold uses granules of this in all his protein shakes. Not sure what people think of it today)

    And if there is room maybe some X-dreams because who doesn't like IBE's products?
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    Retain and xlean are two of the same.. both are cort blockers. Just go with one or the other. Lecithin, I don't really see much benefit from. Arnold used it primarily as a emuslifier to help blend and mix his protein shakes, has a good dose of choline so if your looking for mood enhancement then go for it. Cissus of course would be good for the ol shoulder, stacked with Incarnate should be solid. Sesamin is always a good option, if the budget allows I would take'em with some fish oil. Lot's of people report they work really well together. As for Poseidon, well the lord of hydration is always a safe purchase, should go nicely with any of the aformentioned products.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    What do you think about for my AI then? I have some Rebound XT sitting at home from an older cycle, but I've heard that 6-oxo helps with libido better, and thats where I tend to suffer after my cycles. I've only used Rebound before, so I'm not sure what the big differences are between and ATD and oxo.
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    A lot of people complain about the libido loss with ATD. If it doesn't bother you and you already have some, I'd say go for it. Bulk Trione(6oxo) would work exceptionally well in a dermal carrier, oral 6oxo would tend to add up if you wanted to get in the higher doses i.e 600mg+. Personally, I really like the 6-bromo type ai's even with all the speculation surrounding them now. RR or Restore are two of my personal favs.
    ~ Nothing can kill the Grimace!!


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    Nabisco, whats your bench right now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by prld2gr8ns View Post
    Retain and xlean are two of the same.. both are cort blockers. Just go with one or the other. Lecithin, I don't really see much benefit from. Arnold used it primarily as a emuslifier to help blend and mix his protein shakes, has a good dose of choline so if your looking for mood enhancement then go for it. Cissus of course would be good for the ol shoulder, stacked with Incarnate should be solid. Sesamin is always a good option, if the budget allows I would take'em with some fish oil. Lot's of people report they work really well together. As for Poseidon, well the lord of hydration is always a safe purchase, should go nicely with any of the aformentioned products.
    also agree on the 6 bromo.
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    I can max about 235 ( ) right now, which is sadly depressing. I can't for the life of me seem to get past this plateau, so i was going to hit heavy dbs for a couple of workouts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    I can max about 235 ( ) right now, which is sadly depressing. I can't for the life of me seem to get past this plateau, so i was going to hit heavy dbs for a couple of workouts.
    Do you do the same chest w/o everytime..or do you change it up everytime.
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    you might try the new cissusdrol, sinner seems to like it and you get cissus/6-bromo in one. nothing like saving a buck.:burg:
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    you might try the new cissusdrol, sinner seems to like it and you get cissus/6-bromo in one. nothing like saving a buck.:burg:
    Ill vouche for this. Im using it in my pct. Sense of well being is awesome. Joint/ligaments are better than on cycle with bulk cissus. Strength continues to go up. Sex drive goes up. Overall good stuff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    I can max about 235 ( ) right now, which is sadly depressing. I can't for the life of me seem to get past this plateau, so i was going to hit heavy dbs for a couple of workouts.
    Whats your entire routine look like? Whats your specific chest day look like?
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    I've been doing the same thing for chest for about 3 weeks now. Trying hard to build some much lacking mass and strength in my chest, which I feel is my weakest body part.

    I'll have to check out Cissusdrol. Thanks bros.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    I've been doing the same thing for chest for about 3 weeks now. Trying hard to build some much lacking mass and strength in my chest, which I feel is my weakest body part.

    I'll have to check out Cissusdrol. Thanks bros.
    Dont ever do the same exercise 2 weeks in a row. Do bb bench press wk 1, db bench wk 2, bb bench wk 3, etc. Your muscles get accustomed to the same w/o and you stop gaining.
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    Oh, as far as the supplementation...If you want 6-bromo and a cort blocker and a test booster, look into ALRI Restore.

    I am actually on it right now and loving it. I actually think I'm turning into a 6-bromo addict, everytime I use the stuff i am in the best mood.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    Dont ever do the same exercise 2 weeks in a row. Do bb bench press wk 1, db bench wk 2, bb bench wk 3, etc. Your muscles get accustomed to the same w/o and you stop gaining.
    Not necessarily.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    Not necessarily.
    just my opinion. I dont get any stronger by doing the same thing 2 weeks in a row. When I change it up I my strength goes up. Whats your reasoning pi?
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    Entire routine is posted as a word document at the beginning of the cycle. Its a variation of Arnold's beginners workout, focused mainly on strength and mass building with lots of compound exercises. Meanwhile, here is the chest workout.

    BB Bench Press
    20reps, 10reps, 5reps, 3reps, 1-2reps x 5

    Incline BB Press
    12, 8, 6

    Flys (I vary between flat, incline, and decline each workout)
    12, 8, 6

    DB Pullovers
    12, 8, 6

    Then back exercises are on the same day

    Chinups, Bentover Rows, Deadlifts
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    Nabisco, you are coming lose to overtraining, even on gear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by metroba View Post
    just my opinion. I dont get any stronger by doing the same thing 2 weeks in a row. When I change it up I my strength goes up. Whats your reasoning pi?
    I agree with you here. 2-3 workouts in a row, no progression, no major changes in your life/diet/supp/etc. then I would most def. change things around.

    I guess I misunderstood you before.
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    This helped me up my bench quite a bit. http://www.building-muscle101.com/ho...nch-press.html
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    Any suggestions on what to cut out/switch up? I didn't think that i was putting too much volume in there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    Any suggestions on what to cut out/switch up? I didn't think that i was putting too much volume in there.
    when i was starting to bench 225 and got 2-3 reps max

    then got 4-5 some days i was soo pumped ya know what i did sent my body into shock

    i did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205 then slowly bumped it up to 225

    then i was doing 235x3 and 245x3 and i think thats where it stopped it was sick the weight was so easy. something to think about
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    Quote Originally Posted by nycste View Post
    when i was starting to bench 225 and got 2-3 reps max

    then got 4-5 some days i was soo pumped ya know what i did sent my body into shock

    i did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205 then slowly bumped it up to 225

    then i was doing 235x3 and 245x3 and i think thats where it stopped it was sick the weight was so easy. something to think about
    I tried this while I was on epi and it works very well.
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    So you just took a chest day and did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205? What do you mean by slowly bumped it up to 225? I just want to make sure I'm on the same page. So you do 10 sets of 3 reps at 205, then next day do 10 sets of 3 reps at 210? then 215? and so on?
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    no each chest w/o. not good long term but to get your bench up its a good one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nabisco View Post
    So you just took a chest day and did 10 sets of 3 reps at 205? What do you mean by slowly bumped it up to 225? I just want to make sure I'm on the same page. So you do 10 sets of 3 reps at 205, then next day do 10 sets of 3 reps at 210? then 215? and so on?
    Bench Press
    (week 1) 225x3,3,3 235x3,3 245x3,3,3,3,3
    (week 2) 225x3,3 235x3,3 245x3,3,3,3 225x 3(A)
    (week 3) 225x4,4,4,4,4,4,4 275x1 (died on 2)

    found part of my old log cannot find the actual full workouts but thats an example of what i did.. dont remmeber what my maxes were then or anything. and i would imagine my breaks for these were short cuz only doing 2-3 reps not max isnt that hard
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    Day 11


    Well now, no changes with dosing. Was a little off on my diet today, went out to lunch with some co-workers and had Indian food (buffet style). Heavy in carbs, a little light on protein and probably fairly fatty (the sauces were creamy). But other than that stuck to chicken, rice, and veggies, along with my breakfast of 6 egg whites, 2 eggs, and 2 pieces of whole wheat toast, with one scoop whey in milk. So my calories were definitely up today. Was afraid that cheat meal today would adversely affect my lift, but let me tell you WOW. Today was the best lift yet, so lets get right to it.

    Workout:

    DB Bench Press
    75x12, 85x8, 100x2 (PR!) I've never even thought of touching the 100's before. This had me really pumped.

    Weighted Decline Ab Crunches
    15x10, 25x10, 25x8, 25x7, 25x5

    Incline DB Bench Press
    60x12, 70x8, 80x6 (PR!) The strength was through the roof today.

    Decline DB Flys
    30x12, 40x8, 40x6 (with extra low stretch)

    Chinups
    BWx12, BWx10, BWx10, BWx8, BWx6, BWx4

    One arm Bent over DB Rows
    60x12, 70x8, 80x6

    Deadlifts (heavy set)
    225x10, 275x6, 315x4 (PR) I was strapped in for the 315, but I feel like I could have gone higher. But I was stoked about 315 for 4.

    Overall, best workout yet without a shadow of a doubt. Strength through the roof, 3 PRs in one day. I was high as a kite leaving the gym. My lifting partner (who doesnt know Im on gear) was absolutely blown away. Even some of the larger guys in the gym said something about my 315x4 for deads. Because compared to them Im tiny, hahaha.

    Mood: Fantastic, but the awesome lift helped.
    Libido: No noticeable change
    Energy: Very good all day
    Endurance: Excellent, getting better through my workouts
    Joints: Shoulder twinged a little when I dropped the 100s after my last set, but otherwise fine.
    Pumps: I felt swole today in the gym. Like my back and chest were popping out of my clothes, swole. I felt like I should look like someone twice my size
    Weight: Will weigh in on Saturday (Day 13) Hope to crest the 190 mark and if I don't Im hogging down mucho calories this weekend.

    To the feeling you get after an awesome day in the gym
  

  
 

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