[bitterplacebo]

Background
Started taking Anabolic Pump after finishing up a cutting routine (ending at approx ~2060 calories per day) and beginning a clean bulk. My hope was that AP would prevent me from getting as fat as I usually do on a surplus of calories.

What follows is a 6-7 week outline of my routine and the results that came from it.

Base Supplementation
Creatine -- 2.5g before & after workouts, 3g in morning of rest days
ZMK -- 4 tabs at night
Scivation Xtend -- 5-6 scoops peri-workout, 1 scoop taken sometimes with meals, and 1-2 scoops that I put in my water in the morning and drink throughout the day
Orange Triad -- 3 tabs with meal 1 & 3 tabs with meal 5
NOW Super Enzymes -- 1 tab with each meal

AP Dosing Guidlines
Anabolic Pump -- 1 cap 15-20 minutes before substantial carbohydrate containing meals (~40-50g of carbs) -- This being meals 1 & 2 & 5 on a workout day and meals 1 & 5 on a rest day.

Training Schedule
Weeks 1-4:
T-Nation.com | The 1-6 Principle
Weeks 4+:
Same layout as above except reps for all sets are 8-10, doing 2 exercises for each muscle group for 3-4 sets each, and tempo is closer to 31X0 or 21X0 instead of 40X0.

Diet
Daily intake started at
114g Fat (29%)
334g Protein (42.55%)
202g Carbs (25.74%)
3140 Calories total across 6 meals per day

Didn't closely track how much I ramped it up, but I would probably say that by now I am doing ~3300-3400 calories daily. The fat has increased most, carbs somewhat, and protein either stayed same or decreased slightly.

One cheat meal was eaten every 5 days, usually coinciding with legs day. It was usually something like 60-70g carbs, 30g protein, 20-25g fat. Otherwise calories were clean food.

Weeks 1-2:
Carb meals are typically oatmeal, sweet potato, brown rice, or whole wheat pasta.

Weeks 3-4:
Carb meals can now be grits; in addition to previous meal types.

Weeks 5+:
Carb meals can now be other pastas & some whole grain cereals that have a small amount of simple sugar also; in addition to previous meal types.

Results
Tracked my body composition approximately every 1.5 weeks in a consistent manner -- first thing in the morning with skinfold calipers and weighed in with the same scale.

See attached bar chart.

Fat Gain: +7.5 lbs
Non-Fat Gain: +6.105 lbs
Body Composition: went from 5-6% to 9-10% fat -- I'm on the verge of losing all ab definition

There's the results -- open for interpretation. My conclusion follows.

Conclusion
Anabolic Pump didn't assist me.
The weight gain I experienced in either fat or non-fat categories was not atypical for me in the case of coming off a restricted calorie diet.
My results don't suggest it is more anabolic than just having a calorie abundant diet.
My results don't suggest that it aids in preventing glucose entry into fat cells.
Not a holy grail.

[Mulletsoldier]

Conclusion
Anabolic Pump didn't assist me.
The weight gain I experienced in either fat or non-fat categories was not atypical for me in the case of coming off a restricted calorie diet.
My results don't suggest it is more anabolic than just having a calorie abundant diet.
My results don't suggest that it aids in preventing glucose entry into fat cells.
Not a holy grail, for me.

Very detailed feedback! Added the necessary context in bold, as you seem to be doing some extrapolating!

[bitterplacebo]

Very detailed feedback! Added the necessary context in bold, as you seem to be doing some extrapolating!

Thanks.
Yes, I tried to be concise.

I think the only confusion of extrapolation may come from the last statement -- Not a holy grail. The other statements are clear.

However, if you'll allow me to debate the definition of "holy grail", you may find that there is not any extrapolation at all.

Should a holy grail be something of great value to *any* person?
If it isn't a holy grail to *me* then it's not a holy grail for *all*.
QED

[TexasLifter89]

very nice man! i ran into the same results as you sadly.

[Mulletsoldier]

Thanks.
Yes, I tried to be concise.

I think the only confusion of extrapolation may come from the last statement -- Not a holy grail. The other statements are clear.

However, if you'll allow me to debate the definition of "holy grail", you may find that there is not any extrapolation at all.

Should a holy grail be something of great value to *any* person?
If it isn't a holy grail to *me* then it's not a holy grail for *all*.
QED

Well, ironically enough, "Holy Grail" stems from Christianity, and therefore necessarily denotes a certain degree of subjective relativity - that is, the "Holy Grail" to a Christian has no meaning to a Buddhist, for example.

So, no, I would debate that a "Holy Grail" is an objective of infinite desire and value on a intrapersonal level; and in some instances, this desire is compounded and represented in some form or another by a phallic object, or statue, or monolith and so on.

In that specific sense, Holy Grail is not an "if then Universal negation" = that is, "if it does not work for me, it does not work for anybody". If John uses Anabolic Pump in the same manner you did, and receives absolutely fantastic results, allowing him to completely alter his energy turnover ratios and subsequently alter his body composition, then yes: It is a "Holy Grail" for him.

So, as I was saying earlier, not a "Holy Grail" for you!

[hardknock]

^I do believe that his intentions of mentioning the "holy grail" was in the sense that it is not an end all for the majority.

10,000 can have fantastic results; in contrast, 100,000 can have poor results. So in that respect, it would not be at all a solid supplement.

This being what he is saying, I myself have used it and had decent results; however, YG did great wonders.

Still, I am a bit surprised that you did not have good results?

Were the caliper measurements done at the same time everyday, after/before meals, after w/o, or before...after running, etc?

When looking at weight gain from an lbm point of view, 5 to 10% is quite a bit.

[hardknock]

So, as I was saying earlier, not a "Holy Grail" for you!

Any suggestions of why he may have not had the better half of the effects as some? I know one may not respond to supp A as well as guy 2, but a more detailed explanation while keeping conciseness in mind.

[Mulletsoldier]

Any suggestions of why he may have not had the better half of the effects as some? I know one may not respond to supp A as well as guy 2, but a more detailed explanation while keeping conciseness in mind.

Conciseness is difficult, as energy metabolism is so incredibly diverse form individual to individual - in order to disseminate the issue, I would have had to seen this while it was happening, and not after. Conjecture is always less valid proceeding!

[Steveoph]

It seems like you had your diet and training dialed in, and you're an AP non-responder. Too bad they don't do PSlin samples, I'd be curious if you could feel that working. The stuff is powerful, it should make you go hypoglycemic.

[Rugger]

Good posting. Seems like more people are coming out with not so great reviews of AP.

[Mulletsoldier]

Good posting. Seems like more people are coming out with not so great reviews of AP.

And for quite some time it seemed as if nothing but favorable reviews were put forward! I try not to pay attention to minutia, and look at it from a grander scale. For example, the initial Beta Testing revealed nothing but spectacular results, many of them photo-documented; on the first production run, backlash against the marketing pushed the pendulum towards unfavorable, and so on and so forth.

[TexasLifter89]

mullet I didnt know their was an updated version and an old version of AP. Someone said something about the old version working better for them. any idea where i could find that at?

[TexasLifter89]

Good posting. Seems like more people are coming out with not so great reviews of AP.

and yes i agree rugger. I am starting to see more less favorable reviews coming. but hey, it was expected IMO because nothing is perfect or fool proof

[bitterplacebo]

Well, ironically enough, "Holy Grail" stems from Christianity, and therefore necessarily denotes a certain degree of subjective relativity - that is, the "Holy Grail" to a Christian has no meaning to a Buddhist, for example.

So, no, I would debate that a "Holy Grail" is an objective of infinite desire and value on a intrapersonal level; and in some instances, this desire is compounded and represented in some form or another by a phallic object, or statue, or monolith and so on.

In that specific sense, Holy Grail is not an "if then Universal negation" = that is, "if it does not work for me, it does not work for anybody". If John uses Anabolic Pump in the same manner you did, and receives absolutely fantastic results, allowing him to completely alter his energy turnover ratios and subsequently alter his body composition, then yes: It is a "Holy Grail" for him.

So, as I was saying earlier, not a "Holy Grail" for you!

Excellent response, but I think you misunderstood the logic.

Clarification: holy grail from now on is now referenced in the context of how the supplement industry uses the term.

So what I was saying before is that a "holy grail" supplement is a product with extremely favorable effects on body composition and virtually no concerning side effects -- and something *everyone* with benefit from.

I'm *not* supporting the logical fallacy that "since the product did not work for me, then it works for no one."

I am saying that "since the product did not work for me, it can't be called a holy grail."

It is a weak statement, but it's valid.

[bitterplacebo]

...

Were the caliper measurements done at the same time everyday, after/before meals, after w/o, or before...after running, etc?

When looking at weight gain from an lbm point of view, 5 to 10% is quite a bit.

OP states:

Tracked my body composition approximately every 1.5 weeks in a consistent manner -- first thing in the morning with skinfold calipers and weighed in with the same scale.

You may assume it is a bodyfat of 6% to 9% change if that makes it seem more reasonable. I put in a +/- 1% error range because I'm aware that the caliper is not accurate to begin with.

[bitterplacebo]

Conciseness is difficult, as energy metabolism is so incredibly diverse form individual to individual - in order to disseminate the issue, I would have had to seen this while it was happening, and not after. Conjecture is always less valid proceeding!

Are you asking to install a voyeur cam in my apartment?

That's pretty kinky.

[bitterplacebo]

It seems like you had your diet and training dialed in, and you're an AP non-responder.

Yeah, that's a shame.

I don't have great genetics.
And even the "genetic equalizer" of supplements can't help me.

[Rugger]

and yes i agree rugger. I am starting to see more less favorable reviews coming. but hey, it was expected IMO because nothing is perfect or fool proof

True. With it's initial popularity and increasing sales it's only expected that there will be more non-responders.

[bitterplacebo]

And for quite some time it seemed as if nothing but favorable reviews were put forward! I try not to pay attention to minutia, and look at it from a grander scale. For example, the initial Beta Testing revealed nothing but spectacular results, many of them photo-documented; on the first production run, backlash against the marketing pushed the pendulum towards unfavorable, and so on and so forth.

more extravagant marketing -> more people with high expectations want to use product -> more disappointed people because they expected too much

maybe?

[hardknock]

OP states:



You may assume it is a bodyfat of 6% to 9% change if that makes it seem more reasonable. I put in a +/- 1% error range because I'm aware that the caliper is not accurate to begin with.

No, you are correct if you stated it as 5 to 10. I was just stating those facts for myself in saying that it was a large amount. I was looking at that as whether or not I would say it was a total failure or not, really not trying to judge whether or not your mechanisms/measurements were accurate.

I like seeing the fails as well as the successes as it gives me a better surface to paint my opinions...

Basically, if someone says its a fail, but they only gained 2% of bf during the run, then that may be considered success for guy 2,3, and 4. That's all that i was saying.

On the same note, you may want to try Pslin; I know that some AP non-responders did respond well to Pslin.

posted by mulletsoldier

Conciseness is difficult, as energy metabolism is so incredibly diverse form individual to individual - in order to disseminate the issue, I would have had to seen this while it was happening, and not after. Conjecture is always less valid proceeding!

As i figured, and I was going to delete the question, but I was hoping on a piece of something new as I've read other reasons to why others have had failures with AP.

Reason being is that i've been told, by "specialist", that I have a very high metabolism, and I process carbs like plowing a field with a diesel truck, so I would guess that AP would have minimal effect for me, which was the case, but this still does not explain why YG was so effective. Perhaps it could have been that I capped my own and dosed higher than normal?

[bitterplacebo]

On the same note, you may want to try Pslin; I know that some AP non-responders did respond well to Pslin.

maybe sometime down the road...

Reason being is that i've been told, by "specialist", that I have a very high metabolism, and I process carbs like plowing a field with a diesel truck, so I would guess that AP would have minimal effect for me, which was the case, but this still does not explain why YG was so effective. Perhaps it could have been that I capped my own and dosed higher than normal?

I don't normally do well with carbs, so I was expecting to notice something.

I also had a favorable impression of YG, though I don't have accurate measurements for comparison. It did feel like it was doing something, though -- I mean after eating a meal I felt a kind of fullness that I don't now with AP.

[Mulletsoldier]

Excellent response, but I think you misunderstood the logic.

Clarification: holy grail from now on is now referenced in the context of how the supplement industry uses the term.

So what I was saying before is that a "holy grail" supplement is a product with extremely favorable effects on body composition and virtually no concerning side effects -- and something *everyone* with benefit from.

I'm *not* supporting the logical fallacy that "since the product did not work for me, then it works for no one."

I am saying that "since the product did not work for me, it can't be called a holy grail."

It is a weak statement, but it's valid.

Well, not to nitpick but you are still committing a logical fallacy; you are insinuating that the truth function of 'AP being a Holy Grail' is ultimately verified by your "If p then q negation".

"If it does not work for me, it is not a Holy Grail".

A more consistent and ultimately valid statement would be:

'Holy Grail supplements work for everybody"

"AP does not work for everybody"

"Therefore, AP is not a Holy Grail"

In that respect, you are making a logical statement - you would still be incorrect, but at least you would have your Logic in order.

[Mulletsoldier]

more extravagant marketing -> more people with high expectations want to use product -> more disappointed people because they expected too much

maybe?

Nope, wrong again! In all seriousness though, the marketing has been the exact same from inception to now; the pendulum of favor ultimately swings for every product, in every industry.

Example: Volkswagen and Mercedes Benz were once regarded as the most reliable consumer-produced vehicles; they are now regarded as some of the most unreliable (though still high performing) vehicles. Now, this is more a function of consumer demand reconciling with engineering, but the point still remains.

[vikinginc]

Good posting. Seems like more people are coming out with not so great reviews of AP.

AP yielded $hit for me as well. I was furiously reminded of my $56 rip-off (including shipping for two bottles of AP from NP end of June) when I opened my MD mag this morning. Came across the TWO-page Ad spread on AP including testimonials. I thought I was gonna tear apart my mag. I recalled an AP thread from like 5-6 weeks ago, where I informed everyone I had utilized it for 2.5 weeks (out of 8 weeks and two bottles) and I had not yielded ANY gains or any pumps or any possible effects. I was ripped a new one back then, told I was a newb when it came to supplements because 'IF AP DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU, YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING' --- SUGGESTING that AP has such an intricate and complicated way of use. I was apparently looking for 'the magic pill' and AP definitely didn't meet my expectiations of a 'magic pill' (ahh, good old memories)..

Anyway, fast track till today. I ready the whole ad. Read out loud, 'CAN NOT POSSIBLY GAIN ANY FAT WHILE TAKING AP => AP MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO GAIN ANY FAT-MASS. Hahaha, those who know me on this board, know I've done my fair share of various carb loading/depleting diets, CKD/TKD diets and the likes, and for the 8 weeks in which I was on AP, I did not ever consume excessive calories, however, I did gain fat while taking AP. I never went above 3000 calories during my days on AP, varying carbs from 150-500 grams/day trying out various methods. Nothing worked, no results were yielded.

I continued reading the ad, and found it saying 'we're SO convinced you WILL feeel the POWER OF AP that WE'LL GIVE A 100% money back guarantee*' * check website for more information. I never bothered to check the website, because I'm assuming that you must have purchased AP from USPLABS directly to get anything like this. I've gone an empty bottle on top of my fridge, and a Nutraplanet receipt, so I may just give it a go .. If USPLABS is convinced that it does work for most, I'd do a sponsored run to see if I couldn't prove my previous cycle-conclusion wrong, because I'd never throw down $40+ for another AP bottle again.

.. damn, what a rant. Losing/blowing/wasting money is something that really aggravates me, and bottom line is, I lost ~$60 on the AP. That's worth the same as one of ten books I needed for the semester. Damn, I hate putting things in perspective.

[Mulletsoldier]

Sorry to hear of your experiences; AP can be phenomenal if one is a responder.

As an aside, one needs to realize that non-response is inevitable: I no longer utilize many supplements, but I could write a Thesis on the supplements which have not worked for me - I realize you are angry, but I don't see the need for lashing out.

Just my thoughts, though; not trying to diminish or otherwise suppress your thoughts and/or sentiments.

[Frank Reynolds]

Good review. I had similar results with AP.. Not bad, just nothing.

I do agree with Mullet, and things should be clear for your audience. But what is kind of funny to me, is that when a review is negative, i see companies say "well you have to be clear and say it doesn't work for YOU, but may for someone else" But on the flip side, in all these posts with "this is the best supplement ever OMG yaaaay" you don't see any of them say "well, to be fair, it is the best supplement for you, but may not work for others" for obvious reasons.

[vikinginc]

Sorry to hear of your experiences; AP can be phenomenal if one is a responder.

As an aside, one needs to realize that non-response is inevitable: I no longer utilize many supplements, but I could write a Thesis on the supplements which have not worked for me - I realize you are angry, but I don't see the need for lashing out.

Just my thoughts, though; not trying to diminish or otherwise suppress your thoughts and/or sentiments.

Well, it wasn't so much a lashing out. But rather a continuation of the AP thread already going. And yes, I am very upset about the money I wasted.. Supplement-wise, $60 will get you a great stack of any kind.

It's weird.. but it may just be me.. It seems I saw MORE positive logs/results in the Spring time when it came to the AP, than I've seen since July and beyond .. NO formula change ? NO ingredient change ? NO ingredient-DISTRIBUTOR change?

.. I'm gonna put my patient cap on, and wait for PSlin to come on sale. Now THAT was an immediate-effect supplement right there.

[vikinginc]

Good review. I had similar results with AP.. Not bad, just nothing.

I do agree with Mullet, and things should be clear for your audience. But what is kind of funny to me, is that when a review is negative, i see companies say "well you have to be clear and say it doesn't work for YOU, but may for someone else" But on the flip side, in all these posts with "this is the best supplement ever OMG yaaaay" you don't see any of them say "well, to be fair, it is the best supplement for you, but may not work for others" for obvious reasons.

You just earned my full, undivided attention, man ..

[Mulletsoldier]

Good review. I had similar results with AP.. Not bad, just nothing.

I do agree with Mullet, and things should be clear for your audience. But what is kind of funny to me, is that when a review is negative, i see companies say "well you have to be clear and say it doesn't work for YOU, but may for someone else" But on the flip side, in all these posts with "this is the best supplement ever OMG yaaaay" you don't see any of them say "well, to be fair, it is the best supplement for you, but may not work for others" for obvious reasons.

Oh, most definitely; that being said, I think you would be hard pressed to find me making any such statement. Would you feel that is fairly accurate on my part?

I am more than willing to help any individual large or small, versed or completely inept to training and nutrition to help utilize Anabolic Pump. I am fully cognizant that dosing and nutrient intake to maximize results can be complicated, but once realized in full the results can be fascinating. The myriad of energy complexes AP mediates and is mediated by dictates inevitable non-response; but also inevitable phenomenal responses.

In fact, if you view my comments in the PRIME threads, I have asked for the irrational hate and derogatory comments to cease, so that reviews in full my come to fruition; in that respect, a clearer picture of PRIME's effects on the general population may be elucidated!

[Mulletsoldier]

Well, it wasn't so much a lashing out. But rather a continuation of the AP thread already going. And yes, I am very upset about the money I wasted.. Supplement-wise, $60 will get you a great stack of any kind.

It's weird.. but it may just be me.. It seems I saw MORE positive logs/results in the Spring time when it came to the AP, than I've seen since July and beyond .. NO formula change ? NO ingredient change ? NO ingredient-DISTRIBUTOR change?

Nope! As I said viking, it really is just the pendulum swinging.

.. I'm gonna put my patient cap on, and wait for PSlin to come on sale. Now THAT was an immediate-effect supplement right there.

I have heard this statement echoed time and again, actually.