What to do next ?

[peakgainz]

Howdy guys , First time I submit a post I ve been lurking for some good time.

So I'm almost 23 , 6ft 202lbs about 17% BF still haven't reached my genetic limit yet , I have some years of lifting behind . I'm looking to do 2 cycles to reach my goal I set wich is 185lbs 10%BF to help me optimize my gains this year with mild side effects . Btw My first cycle was 10-15mg Lgd with 30mg mk677 didn't see much of improvements than lethargy done it about 6 months ago.

NOW I'm doing a mini cut to reduce my BF(aiming for 13-14% BF) before starting a cycle for bulking 8-12 weeks , I want something more promising this time if I should stack lgd to other sarms or add some kind of prohormone/mild easily found steroid (no injecting hard to get that stuff here) for more rewards that's fine.

If the results are noticeables then I will try to keep my kcals above maintenance until 2 weeks after pct then cut with moderate dose of ostarine only to keep the gains for 7 weeks and run otc test booster afterwards . If the results aren't satisfying enough , I will cut naturally just after pct for 5 weeks , then do another bulking cycle later but I might be holding more fat .

I think If I go with the first scenario I should do more harsh cycle than the second one .

What you guys can you advice me ? what's a suiting cycles plans ?

Sorry for the disorder of ideas

 

[peakgainz]

any suggestions guys?

 

[peakgainz]

I'm thinking about doing a DMZ/mk677 cycle or lgd/yk11/mk677

 

[peakgainz]

So no suggestions?

 

[Cscott622]

So basically you only want to do oral cycles? Sarms/phs/whatever?

 

[buidlerpro]

Maybe peptides can help

 

[peakgainz]

So basically you only want to do oral cycles? Sarms/phs/whatever?

Yes whatever oral or transdermal . Something that will give good results like 10lbs of lbm kept after pct with few side effects

 

[Whisky]

Doesn’t look like long enough between pct and your cut with osta bro......

But I’d look at a 1/4/epiandro stack 330/330/1000 for 8 weeks. I’ve just finished (also had mk677 throughout) and gained 8 lean lbs with 30lbs plus on dead and squat 1 rep maxes (that’s after pct). Had virtually no sides on cycle.

If you want a step up from the andros then personally I’m looking at epistane with 4ad (or 4 andro) next.....not run it myself but heard great things.

Sarms are a little too new and untested for my personal liking.

 

[peakgainz]

8lbs for the 3 andros. you kept 8lbs of LBM is go that's a good thing. The transdermal version is not liver toxic as the oral one of the andros , right?

 

[Whisky]

8lbs for the 3 andros. you kept 8lbs of LBM is go that's a good thing. The transdermal version is not liver toxic as the oral one of the andros , right?

Neither 1, 4 or epiandro are methylated so liver toxicity is not really an issue on that stack......

 

[peakgainz]

Neither 1, 4 or epiandro are methylated so liver toxicity is not really an issue on that stack......

my bro used 1+4 andro before , he got his liver enzymes wrecked , rashes , immense fatigue . The doc told him you could have nearly died.

 

[Godstrength]

my bro used 1+4 andro before , he got his liver enzymes wrecked , rashes , immense fatigue . The doc told him you could have nearly died.

I doubt it. That's a mild stack unless he was irresponsible and making poor choices in conjunction with this combo

 

[Whisky]

my bro used 1+4 andro before , he got his liver enzymes wrecked , rashes , immense fatigue . The doc told him you could have nearly died.

OL is a solid respected brand and that stack simply wouldn’t cause those issues unless there was an underlying condition. Any medication has potential to react badly in certain individual cases but you should base your decision on the science imo

 

[peakgainz]

OL is a solid respected brand and that stack simply wouldn’t cause those issues unless there was an underlying condition. Any medication has potential to react badly in certain individual cases but you should base your decision on the science imo

When he stopped taking it , the doc did for him bloodworks every day while giving him corticosteroids . The liver enzymes went down gradually and he started feeling better. As she told him even if it's not methylated it can cause problems for liver and it's individual based .

 

[StatePlan1425]

I don’t follow your logic of wanting to bulk with your stated goals. Based on your current weight and BF% vs your stated goal weight/BF% you’re basically there in terms of lean mass, you just need to cut. Granted, you will lose some muscle in a cut but IMO, 17% BF is far to high to consider a bulk. Even your “mini cut” to get you to 13-14% seems to high. (I’ll concede that I’m used to athletes who are single digit BF%) Remember, the more BF you have, the more aromatase you make which depending on what substances you run, could not end well or require even more substances to control.

IMO, I wouldn’t recommend a bulking cycle. I’d investigate PPAR modulators and other cutting/recomp substances first.

 

[Whisky]

When he stopped taking it , the doc did for him bloodworks every day while giving him corticosteroids . The liver enzymes went down gradually and he started feeling better. As she told him even if it's not methylated it can cause problems for liver and it's individual based .

Anything like this places stress on your organs (not just the liver), it’s the reason you should also take the appropriate supports.

 

[Chados]

When he stopped taking it , the doc did for him bloodworks every day while giving him corticosteroids . The liver enzymes went down gradually and he started feeling better. As she told him even if it's not methylated it can cause problems for liver and it's individual based .

Doesn't seem right to me that one cycle will destroy your liver. There must have been other things involved or he was just having a bad liver since before. Even the most toxic steroids are sometimes used as medicin and had it been so dangerous they would never prescribe them. Overdosing is one thing , even normal pills for headache has liver toxicity and they are probably even more toxic than steroids many times.
Alcohol,drugs, dosage etc is a major factor

 

[peakgainz]

I don’t follow your logic of wanting to bulk with your stated goals. Based on your current weight and BF% vs your stated goal weight/BF% you’re basically there in terms of lean mass, you just need to cut. Granted, you will lose some muscle in a cut but IMO, 17% BF is far to high to consider a bulk. Even your “mini cut” to get you to 13-14% seems to high. (I’ll concede that I’m used to athletes who are single digit BF%) Remember, the more BF you have, the more aromatase you make which depending on what substances you run, could not end well or require even more substances to control.

IMO, I wouldn’t recommend a bulking cycle. I’d investigate PPAR modulators and other cutting/recomp substances first.

I would like to get single digit but it's hard to me without losing good amount of muscle . Around 11% the struggle is real i still lose weight but lean body mass suffer.
My bodyweight is not reparted fairly . Most of my weight is in my legs genetically than my upper body . So , my upper body looks weaker than my lower body also most of body fat is around tighs.
Considering in a cycle I will clean bulk (starting with 13%bf) with something helping with recomp . I would end with the same bodyfat or maybe less considering added a noticeable amount of muscle.
So when I will cut with ostarine, I will start with more muscle with around 13% (15% bodyfat as a maximum) . So that means tdee will be higher , fat will come out easier , won't struggle around 11%bf as now ...so easier to get to single digit . Might be a false reasoning but from experience , i lose muscle when cutting and makes me look flat and soft.

 

[peakgainz]

Doesn't seem right to me that one cycle will destroy your liver. There must have been other things involved or he was just having a bad liver since before. Even the most toxic steroids are sometimes used as medicin and had it been so dangerous they would never prescribe them. Overdosing is one thing , even normal pills for headache has liver toxicity and they are probably even more toxic than steroids many times.
Alcohol,drugs, dosage etc is a major factor

He was taking 330mg from both never cycled before . He is healthy so i don't know really .But that abnormal elevated enzymes level is weird and also the rash alm over the body. Maybe it's allergy or something from the the andros.

The side effects reduced gradually after stopping them.

 

[peakgainz]

Ok guys , I'm thinking of the following ideas : Tbol 60mg 6weeks + LGD 8 mg 8weeks + 4 andro as test base 200mg transdermal. This gonna be expernsive due to being my Tbol source expensive.
Second idea : LGD 8mg + yk11 10mg + 4andro 200mg for 8 weeks .
Third idea gonna be using some harsh prohormone/desinger steroid like a DMZ/M-sten for 6 weeks or Superdrol 4 weeks .

What you guys find gonna be more suitable.

 

[Chados]

Ok guys , I'm thinking of the following ideas : Tbol 60mg 6weeks + LGD 8 mg 8weeks + 4 andro as test base 200mg transdermal. This gonna be expernsive due to being my Tbol source expensive.
Second idea : LGD 8mg + yk11 10mg + 4andro 200mg for 8 weeks .
Third idea gonna be using some harsh prohormone/desinger steroid like a DMZ/M-sten for 6 weeks or Superdrol 4 weeks .

What you guys find gonna be more suitable.

Different compound, different results, different sides, huge money difference.

 

[peakgainz]

Different compound, different results, different sides, huge money difference.

So what's the final verdict :mischievous: for something yields for 10lbs lbm kept for someone still not reached the genetic limit yet , with lowest side effects (especially the mental ones anxiety...)

 

[Chados]

So what's the final verdict :mischievous: for something yields for 10lbs lbm kept for someone still not reached the genetic limit yet , with lowest side effects (especially the mental ones anxiety...)

Tbol for better overall feeling and sdrol for gains. Tbol for keepable gains

 

[Chados]

Also wanna add that since you're new to aas you really can get away with very little, I suggest you to run test with it.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Abombs, Test-E, and Var is nice. Just saying

 

[peakgainz]

I'm not looking for injection as you can see guys . If there is a substitue transdermal/orally would be better , Also I want to avoid total shutdown for now.

So to LGD with Tbol? how this looks like
1-3 4mg LGD 4-8 8mg ( edited)
2-8 60mg Tbol (7weeks edited)
3-8 ar1macare pro 8 caps
not sure what use as test base , better to be transdermal and somewhat helps with gains. 4andro found it to be more expensive than what I tought but can still go for it , if it's the perfect choice
low dose dermatrest looks an option but not sure if worth it
Pct

Nolvadex 40/40/20/20
Super pct 10caps/day

 

[peakgainz]

I read somewhere that LGD+Tbol will need a full pct of clomid and Nolva. What you guys think?

 

[Chados]

I read somewhere that LGD+Tbol will need a full pct of clomid and Nolva. What you guys think?

You want real test but I guess a test base is better than anything. I like to stack Clomid and nolva. You can get away with one but one reason to stack is that you can decrease the amount and get away from sides which for me comes from Clomid and even at 50mg (some go 100).

I like to go 50/50/25/25 Clomid and 40/40/20/20 on nolva.

 

[peakgainz]

You want real test but I guess a test base is better than anything. I like to stack Clomid and nolva. You can get away with one but one reason to stack is that you can decrease the amount and get away from sides which for me comes from Clomid and even at 50mg (some go 100).

I like to go 50/50/25/25 Clomid and 40/40/20/20 on nolva.

I don't like clomid side effets , I got it at 50@day. I prefer using only nolva if clomid is mandatory then both.
About test base , i found TD 4 andro , dermatrest , proviron . Wich one of these or others to help with gains too with fair sides? Also I'm not looking for a total shutdown

 

[Chados]

I don't like clomid side effets , I got it at 50@day. I prefer using only nolva if clomid is mandatory then both.
About test base , i found TD 4 andro , dermatrest , proviron . Wich one of these or others to help with gains too with fair sides? Also I'm not looking for a total shutdown

You could arguably go 25 every week on Clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva. You could very well be shut down and I'm not sure which works best as a test base. I've only done androtest and all I can say is that it's at best a very low dose of test. I'm not sure wether dermatrest goes under ment which I would stay away from if I'm new to this.

 

[peakgainz]

You could arguably go 25 every week on Clomid and 40/40/20/20 nolva. You could very well be shut down and I'm not sure which works best as a test base. I've only done androtest and all I can say is that it's at best a very low dose of test. I'm not sure wether dermatrest goes under ment which I would stay away from if I'm new to this.

Okay I prefer 25mg . Hopefully I won't be shutdown . Androtest is 4AD , I didn't find a transdermal version of it only for 4 andro still expensive.
Yes Dermatrest is transdermal ment , I will stay away from it .
THANK YOU MAN FOR YOUR HELP APPRECIATE IT! I will create a new thread to review the cycle and get some ideas of good test base.