PH and Blood Pressure
- 04-20-2004, 11:10 AM
PH and Blood Pressure
What do you guys do when your blood pressure gets a little to high because of PH use? I couldn't find a clear answer on this. Some people have mentioned Hawthorn Berry, Celery Seeds, Asprin (or White Willow) and lowering the doses of PH. What are everyone's thoughts? I haven't encountered high BP because of PH yet, but I would like to know what my options are if it happens. Thanks.
- 04-20-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally Posted by phatbody
- 04-20-2004, 11:21 AM
I guess I should also ask what does high blood pressure feel like? Do you feel it in pressure on your heart? Your head?
Side note: It's funny, I see commercials for heartburn all the time, but I have no idea what it feels like either.
Edited: Well, heartburn isn't really funny, but I do feel stupid because I still think that heartburn makes you feel like your heart is on fire.
04-20-2004, 11:28 AM
Controlling blood pressure is not simple. If someone has normal blood pressure, taking Hawthorne Berry while on cycle and during PCT will minimize the risks. However, anyone who has borderline or high blood pressure should consult a doctor to get their BP under control first and then consider using androgens.
04-20-2004, 11:54 AM
Yeah, I'm in the normal range and just wanted to know what to take AND what the symptoms would be. I would assume that if the PH is causing the high blood pressure that stopping the use of the PH would bring someone back down to normal. Are those Blood Pressure machines I see at the grocery store worth checking out at all? I'm there once a week to buy food anyway so why no get checked out when I'm on my cycle?
04-20-2004, 12:50 PM
some people say the machines that you sit down in aren't that accurate, but they seem to be fairly close with me. i have a sphygnomometer (blood pressure cuff) at home, and the machines come pretty close. obviously theres going to be some deviation anyways, so I think they're fine.
04-20-2004, 02:10 PM
Hmm. I have normal BP and I was fine on a 5 week cycle of 1Test/4-AD BUT Post-cycle, I felt like my BP increased. Not sure exactly because I never had it tested but whenever I lifted and exerted myself the most (last few reps or really heavy lifting) my head felt like it was going to explode and I got all dizzy. I had to make sure I breathed correctly every rep and even then it didn't totally stop the dizzy feeling. I've basically attributed this to high BP as I've heard it has been known to increase right after a cycle. I am fine now BTW, it has subsided.
04-20-2004, 03:47 PM
I do not agree with some physicians who say people cannot feel their b/p increase. I believe people who are in tuned with their body can tell when it becomes elevated. Keep in mind most people are ignorant of anything that concerns there body which is why they wait six months before they go to see a Dr when they have a lump on their neck.
I am speaking from experience. My b/p was 160/85 and is now controlled via hydrochlorothiazide. I can tell when it becomes high. I can feel it pulsing through my fingers.
I also work in the medical field and speak to clients who can tell when their b/p is running high before I take the measurement.
I believe most people cannot tell but some can. It is not uncommon when your b/p runs moderately high (160/90-180/110) you can feel your fingers throbbing, dizziness, head pulsating. Remember, this is a pressure inside your blood vessels. Kind of like when you are taking a 90 year olds pulse(normally their bp is very low b/c of numerous meds they are taking), (100/50) it is hard to find which is why we take it apically instead of radially. It can also be difficult to assess b/c of circulation problems. However, a person who is in cardiac arrest initially has tends to have elevated b/p and the pulse is jumping out of their wrist, no need for apical. There is an elevated pressure inside those vessels causing your heart to work harder to push the vital blood supply throughout your body.
The reason we call high b/p the silent killer is because relative mild hypertension with no symptoms causes long term damage to blood vessels (atherosclerotic plaque accumulation) (140/90). This damage is geared towards the main blood vessels that supply your vital organs blood. (heart, kidneys, and brain) That is why hypertension causes heart failure, renal failure, strokes, and impaired vision.
Your left ventricle has to work harder to circulate the blood to the vital organs thus causing hypertrophy of the left ventricle. Matching up with those who workout hard and heavy, our left ventricle is already enlarged somewhat and hypertension can be a disaster for us in the long run.
There are many hypothesis for why people develop high b/p like renin-angiotensin, decreased vasoldilation of the blood vessels(see any use for nitric oxide, I do, never did a comparison though), stress releasing hormones etc.
Another misconception about hypertension is smoking can cause high b/p. This is not true either. Smoking causes your blood vessels to become more brittle(arteriosclerosis not arthrosclerosis) This is long term damage and not noticed by the average person until the damage is done. However; moderate and severe hypertension can cause those brittle blood vessels to rupture more easily.
Now the JNC has specified they even want lower b/p of 135/85. In the next few years there will be many new people taking high blood pressure medications. Just to let anyone know, many doctors love to give out beta blockers like zestril; however; they have found good old diuretics are just as effects and you get the plus of never having a kidney stone. You piss like a race horse though. Sounds like the pharmaceutical companies need more money.
And the grocery store sphg's are really inaccurate for me b/c of the size of my arms. For some people with smaller, average arms those things are fine. A small cuff will cause inaccurate interpretation of both systolic and diastolic readings. I have to use a cuff designed for femoral bp. My arms are not even that big, maybe 18.5 inches. I have seen the nurse in the Dr. office use the small cuff, then I tell her to quit being lazy and go get the bigger cuff. When she does my bp is lower. I take my b/p at my house with a $300.00 Tyco sphyg with a lippencott stethoscope. I know my b/p better than the dr. I am also prone to white coat syndrome and can feel it raise when they put the damn thing on my arm in the office. It makes me laugh because I do this crap all day but I get nervous when it is getting done to me. Go figure.
04-20-2004, 03:50 PM
They call high blood pressure "the silent killer" for a reason. There are no outward effects of high blood pressure, unless it goes to dangerous levels. For example, a person cannot feel the difference between 130/70 (regular), 150/90 (borderline), and 170/110 (high). Checking your blood pressure once a week would be a good safety precaution.Originally Posted by phatbody
04-20-2004, 04:17 PM
At 150/90 a person who is in tune with there body should notice a difference. I am not talking about someone who has had hypertension for twenty years. Of course those people are not going to notice the difference. But when you have 120/80 and you gain twenty pounds which results in a b/p of 160/90 you better believe most people will notice some physiological effects like pulsating fingers. Most people don't even give a symptom like this a second thought. I am not trying to argue with you but feel free to purchase the book titled Brunners and Suddarths Textbook of Medical Surg 10th edition. It explains just what I said. Another thing, if you have 120-80 bp normally and go to 170/110 I guarantee you there should be some noticeable effects unless you are a typical person. The reason I say typical is b/c I feel most people who have been working out are very in tuned with thier body and can notice physiological changes. I can also tell you my dad had heart surgery recently and his b/p was around 180/110 and he noticed big time, dizziness, headach. Also a b/p reading of 180/110 is considered a hypertensive crisis, a medical emergency requiring it to be lowered immediately to prevent target organ damage.
Last edited by enzo; 04-20-2004 at 04:35 PM. Reason: added something
04-20-2004, 04:25 PM
Wow. I need to learn more about high blood pressure. Thanks for all the info guys. I guess so long as I monitor my BP while on cycle I should be ok. If things start to get high I will know to make some changes. I've gained some experience points here...I feel like I've gained a level. Hmmm, I am now a level 10 Warrior.
04-21-2004, 02:08 PM
While some people may detect symptoms, especially if they occur suddenly, the percentage is too low to be sure that people will notice a problem.
As a side comment, we had one guy post that he experienced no side effects from taking M 1-T. Then out of curiosity, he asked what the common bad sides were and I answered that post. As it turns out, he experienced every side effect, but did not consciously associate them with taking M 1-T. The moral of the story: for your own good, please do not think you can monitor yourself without the use of diagnostic tests.
04-22-2004, 11:06 PM
I'm on my 2nd bottle of this stuff called "Blood Pressure Control" by Twinlab. Contains something called C-12 Peptide. Vitamin Shoppe has it on sale with 40% off
til April 30th. With discount it comes out to $19. I read about it on another board. I find it REALLY effective. I have hawthorne, Celtic seasalt and celery extract but this stuff makes a difference. Makes me a little more confident to do the M1 thing!
04-23-2004, 12:26 PM
Do you have some BP numbers to report? Some BP readings collected before and after taking this supplement would be informative.Originally Posted by MetaBeta
04-23-2004, 04:12 PM
Before: Frequent readings like 130/84 peaks of 160/94, 150/100, 144/94
My peaks occured after treating 15 or more of my clients with "Chi" Energy within an afternoon (I'm a Reiki Master). This high BP thing just started recently. So after freakin out about the High BP I started searching the net and found a thread on avant about the Twinlab product.....so far I'm amazed.
Now 124/78, 116/66, 127/72, 118/73, 120/78, 119/72, 112/73, 103/62
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