KLEEN is Recovering & Breaking PR's with Wendlers 531 & FINAFLEX!

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    Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    I agree. You definately need continued feeding to gain large amounts of muscle. I am not looking at it as a bodybuilder. And frequent feedings do not suit my schedule as a teacher/coach. For me IF and carbloading allows me more flexibility especially on long work days and travel.
    surely
    perspective, understanding what you are doing and of course, the application and execution of appropriate protocols, is everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post

    Fasting does not make one lethargic unless they have a very fast metabolism. I have more energy fasted than at any other time. It's eating that makes me sleepy which is natural.
    Fasting destroys my energy levels. I need carbs consistently to avoid hypoglycemia
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you all know how i feel about fasting, for the true bb'er who is after continued musculature gains
    LG/IF great - if it suits your lifestyle, and if you just wanna be lean
    you are not gonna add massive amounts of muscle on it tho
    just ain't gonna happen
    Discussed this with Kleen last night, couldn't agree more. Fasting is great and all but only for certain times or like you said, a lifestyle type diet.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Excellent conversation in here. Doug I know that you love IF and honestly as a lifestyle diet I know it was working for me. However I have been wanting to go back to my roots for a while. Every dietary strategy is worth trying but one of them got me looking better than anything else ever has. Since I am going into a bodybuilding comp this year now is the time for that method of eating for me. I am in no way knocking IF, I am the one who recommended it to you. I just need to get my calories in now more evenly and with less fullness. Going to bed gorged was taking its toll on my digestive track. Plus I know I will grow more with continuous protein to fuel my growth. IF keeps muscle loss at bay excellently and yes you can grow on it but I do not think you grow optimally on it.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you all know how i feel about fasting, for the true bb'er who is after continued musculature gains
    LG/IF great - if it suits your lifestyle, and if you just wanna be lean
    you are not gonna add massive amounts of muscle on it tho
    just ain't gonna happen
    Adding muscle has never been my problem staying lean is. I would add muscle yah then lose a lot of it by having to diet harder. In the long run I believe I can do better using this method staying lean a adding some size slowly with the help of mild anabolics... seems to work ok for me. Not for everybody I know but like you said in your thread, I care about what works for me. I just have to correct people when they say things I don't believe are true like you need food for energy. The body has taken care of that for you, especially once you get used to it. If I wanted I could add more size than I am currently but that is because of my endo body type I know. So size will really never be an issue for me.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    No doubt Doug it is working for you. You are looking good.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Adding muscle has never been my problem staying lean is.
    If I wanted I could add more size than I am currently but that is because of my endo body type I know. So size will really never be an issue for me.
    see - again, understanding of the application, and what you hope to accomplish..this is fine!
    you are not looking to gain size/muscle; i take no issue with you using IF!
    now if you wanted to add some srs mucle in the next yr, i would tell you that you are shooting yourself, in both feet

    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Discussed this with Kleen last night, couldn't agree more. Fasting is great and all but only for certain times or like you said, a lifestyle type diet.
    it's a finny sighting!
    aye mate!
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    DW I have the same problem. I sit at around 230 average and probably with an average calorie intake weekly of 2500 or less. Size is not my problem. And to be honest restricting calories was never very effective either. When I was young and had the time to pull two a days I was able to get very lean, but now with much less time and control I have found carb restriction to work the best. The fasting has come out of convenience and my belief in controlling insulin.
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    Yeah DW being an extreme ecto myself I am currently trying to think of a good way to go about eating during my march cycle. I know I plan on everything being extremely lean gains. I don't want to add any fat only drop fat. Maybe il trade PMs with you soon.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/216136-finaflex-1-andro.htmlCurrent log belowhttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/redefine-nutrition/226014-getting-bigger-leaner.html#post3893348
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    I am a total Endo! Sometimes Endos are simply carb sensitive, or should I say have low insulin sensitivity. YOu can control that a few ways, one is a lower carb, high protein high fat diet and another is using IF to lower the exposure to insulin in order to increase sensitivity. You can do either with great success even as an endo. What I found when doing IF as a lifestyle diet was that I could have a little more latitude in what I ate and still get leaner. Once I was able to eat quite a bit at a sitting though having the same freedom of food choice resulted in adding fat.

    If you want IF to work for you and your goal is not to gain the most amount of LBM possible then simply take your 6 meal protocol and shove all the same nutrients into 2-3 meals with the biggest one being post workout. That is honestly all there is to it.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I am a total Endo! Sometimes Endos are simply carb sensitive, or should I say have low insulin sensitivity. YOu can control that a few ways, one is a lower carb, high protein high fat diet and another is using IF to lower the exposure to insulin in order to increase sensitivity. You can do either with great success even as an endo. What I found when doing IF as a lifestyle diet was that I could have a little more latitude in what I ate and still get leaner. Once I was able to eat quite a bit at a sitting though having the same freedom of food choice resulted in adding fat.

    If you want IF to work for you and your goal is not to gain the most amount of LBM possible then simply take your 6 meal protocol and shove all the same nutrients into 2-3 meals with the biggest one being post workout. That is honestly all there is to it.
    Yah it's not complicated but I do have it down to a science now. I do just that, my regular maintenance cals with my activity factored in. I keep track of everying on a spreadsheet and my algorithm is money. The biggest thing I have to watch now is that I am eating enough with the anabolics I am taking. If I have to increase then I will,l bare in mind that I am also slowly trying to continually get leaner as well. I also want to add a little size.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Yeah you have it down and are doing it very well. You add some muscle while remaining lean and or leaning up. So long as you feed the anabolics you will continue to grow. I may go back to IF once I no longer plan to compete, or just go to a 3 - 4 meal a day schedule but for now I am going to try to grow as much as possible while also leaning up. That means protein at all times and keeping carbs under 200 on training days and lower than that on burn days.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah you have it down and are doing it very well. You add some muscle while remaining lean and or leaning up. So long as you feed the anabolics you will continue to grow. I may go back to IF once I no longer plan to compete, or just go to a 3 - 4 meal a day schedule but for now I am going to try to grow as much as possible while also leaning up. That means protein at all times and keeping carbs under 200 on training days and lower than that on burn days.
    I know it's a better off season type of diet but you are competing in the bigger leagues and my size is good enough for what I want to do so I really have a different scenario...
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    bare in mind
    no i wil not bare with you in your mind, or anywhere else for that matter.
    freak.


    j/p man..
    yes you have obviously done well with it Doug, look the best i have seen you
    good dedication
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    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    no i wil not bare with you in your mind, or anywhere else for that matter.
    freak.


    j/p man..
    yes you have obviously done well with it Doug, look the best i have seen you
    good dedication
    Yah and the best is still to come I haven't peaked yet
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yah and the best is still to come I haven't peaked yet
    Can't wait to see the peak Doug!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    Definitely some good convo up in here, make me act a fool, up in here!!!

    When am I ever gonna Peak?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Definitely some good convo up in here, make me act a fool, up in here!!!

    When am I ever gonna Peak?
    You are always peaking at something... peaking at scattered ass mostly!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Discussed this with Kleen last night, couldn't agree more. Fasting is great and all but only for certain times or like you said, a lifestyle type diet.
    Or for certain people.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Well in the obvious switch to things I know for certain work and work well for me I am also changing up my training again. I am going to do my Kleen Machine workout as I used to call it Warrior Workout. It is a full body 3 times per week workout, I will do it to recomp / cut it really burns a lot of energy and is plenty intense enough to stimulate growth. I think will give me exactly what I am looking for right now. My wife will be doing it with me again which is nice because we were not working out together before due to me doing a 4 day split. She only likes to lift 3 days and with this one if I want to add in an arm specific day I can. I will be hitting Workout 2 tonight because I want the extra day of recovery to be between the Dead Lifts and the Squats

    Rest Periods will be approximately 1 minute or however fast we can change the weights / change exercises.
    WW1: 2 work sets to Form Failure 8-10 reps, second set is a double
    drop set

    Flat DB Bench Press
    Bent Over DB Row,
    Standing Arnold Presses (dumbbells should be out wider than the shoulders at end of movement)
    DB Hammer Curls
    DB Overhead Triceps Extension or Cable Overhead Triceps Ext.
    Squats
    Romanian Deads


    WW2: 2 work sets to Form Failure 8-10 reps, second set is a double drop set

    Chin Ups
    DB or HS Decline Chest Press
    Lateral Raises
    Close Grip Bench
    Barbell Curls
    Leg Press
    Lunges


    WW3: 2 work sets to Form Failure 8-10 reps, second set is a double drop set

    DB or HS Incline Chest Press
    DB Pull Over - Straight Arm Lat Pulldown
    Push Press
    Reverse Curls
    Lying Triceps Extension (with elbow pointed toward back of head at 45 degree angle.)
    Dead Lifts
    Leg Ext
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    So two sets of each exercise? One normal, one drop set.

    Must have an empty gym to get on squats so fast. Using Barbell and squat rack I assume.

    I might have to burrow this from you. But I would start with big leg movements. Leg press and squat racks are always being used (mostly incorrectly or for curls or shruggs).

    Do you time yourself between exercises or just between sets?
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    Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    So two sets of each exercise? One normal, one drop set.

    Must have an empty gym to get on squats so fast. Using Barbell and squat rack I assume.

    I might have to burrow this from you. But I would start with big leg movements. Leg press and squat racks are always being used (mostly incorrectly or for curls or shruggs).

    Do you time yourself between exercises or just between sets?
    Double drop so 4 sets in all ... I love this routine coming up next after the power routine is over.
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    So two sets of each exercise? One normal, one drop set.

    Must have an empty gym to get on squats so fast. Using Barbell and squat rack I assume.

    I might have to burrow this from you. But I would start with big leg movements. Leg press and squat racks are always being used (mostly incorrectly or for curls or shruggs).

    Do you time yourself between exercises or just between sets?
    I work out early in the morning so there is not really a crowd there to get in my way. I am also pretty flexible with the moving around of thins if need be. I can just do hack squats or leg press, or barbell hacks if both squats are in use however in between exercises is just changing as quickly as possible. You may feel like puking by the end because you change weights so fast that even the rest periods are rushed if you are with a partner. If not then you definitely time between sets. Either way you will not only be stronger but in better condition after it.

    As far as doing legs first when I wrote the program it was after a few years of messing around with it. I found that I could not work legs intensely then continue to hit the rest of my body with as high intensity because not only is it more exhaustive, but it is also whoops the CNS, if CNS is toast the rest of the workout suffers. It is relatively easy to do the upper body then still have intensity for legs but the opposite was not true for me. When comparing the amounts of weight lifting in all lifts I found they weight I could lift on legs did not drop when they were last but when first all my other work suffered.

    Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Double drop so 4 sets in all ... I love this routine coming up next after the power routine is over.
    Yes Sir 4 fast and furious sets. This bad boy is my favorite as you know. This is the bread and butter that built most of my mass.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    Looks like a killer workout.. More geared towards hypertrophy?
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    I'm thinking of starting something like this when baseball starts. Fast and furious. I'm thinking two intense days and two regular days.
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    I'm thinking of starting something like this when baseball starts. Fast and furious. I'm thinking two intense days and two regular days.
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    How long does it typically take you?
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    How long does typically take?
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    Sorry for multiple posts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post
    Looks like a killer workout.. More geared towards hypertrophy?
    Hypertrophy, conditioning and power. Typically the work sets are 6-8 reps but with my shoulder it just wasn't a good idea to go that low.

    Caleb, it normally takes about 45-55 minutes not including the general warm up

    Here is how it went today, there were adjustments on legs because every peice of equipment was in use but leg ext and leg curls, and ALL the DB were being used... New Year Resolutioners need to hurry up and weed themselves out.

    Chins - 10, 10>pulldowns 165x10>120x8

    HS Decline Chest Press - 90x12, 135x10>90x10>45x8

    Machine Lateral Raises - 90x15, 120x10>100x4>70x4

    Close Grip Dips - BWx25, BWx18>CG Push ups x8 > Assisted Dips BW-100x8

    Barbell Curls - 90x12, 90x7>70x4>50x3

    Leg Extensions - 190x12, 250x10>210x6>150x4

    Raised Up Lying Leg Curls - 80x12, 110x11>80x6>50x3

    Heart was racing by the time this was over and every muscle in my body was pumped. I would have definitely liked to have done the leg press and lunges but waiting for something to become available was going to take too long and cool me down. We finished this one in about 50 minutes.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
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    That's an incredible workout bro. Might have to try something like that
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    I've said it before EPIC describe's Kleen's logs workouts just amazing to see this much energy and volume mixed with his strength. Wicked updates brother!
    OG Avenger-HULK SMASHING TIME!
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    Love that routine ... fast and furious that's my thing
    Mind and Muscle Board Representative I am not a physician and any advice is solely based on personal experience with various products
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    ^ thats what she said.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Thanks Gentlemen! So here is the total tally for yesterdays eats.

    Foods Calories Carbs Fat Protein Cholest Sodium Sugars Fiber
    Breakfast
    Jennie-O - All Natural Turkey Burger 1/3 lb (97/3), 0.5994 lb pattie 360 0g 18g 50g 180mg 738mg 0g 0g
    Classico Spaghetti Sauce - Tomato + Basil, 125 g (1/2 cup) 50 9g 1g 2g 0mg 380mg 5g 1g
    Mid Morning Meal
    Trunutrition Sciences - Trutein - Banana Cream, 2 Scoop (34g) 240 10g 2g 50g 40mg 200mg 2g 5g
    Quaker Oats - Old Fashioned Oatmeal - Dry, 0.66 cup 198 36g 4g 7g 0mg 0mg 1g 5g
    Lunch
    Wendys - 1/2 Chicken Blt Cobb Salad With Extra Chicken Breast, 1/2 Salad with extra chicken 430 10g 22g 49g 0mg 0mg 0g 2g
    Mid Afternoon Snack
    Trunutrition Sciences - Trutein - Banana Cream, 2 Scoop (34g) 240 10g 2g 50g 40mg 200mg 2g 5g
    Quaker Oats - Old Fashioned Oatmeal - Dry, 0.4 cup 120 22g 2g 4g 0mg 0mg 1g 3g
    Dinner
    Finaflex - Cell Shock Recovery Drink, 2 scoops 200 50g 0g 0g 0mg 0mg 15g 0g
    San - Platinum Isolate Supreme - All Flavors, 1.5 Scoop 165 1g 0g 41g 0mg 75mg 0g 0g
    Campbell's Select Harvest Light - Southwestern Vegetable Soup, 1.5 container (2 cups ea.) 150 39g 0g 6g 0mg 1,950mg 15g 12g
    Jennio-O - Ground Turkey 93/7 Burger, 6 oz. 255 0g 12g 32g 120mg 120mg 0g 0g
    TOTAL: 2,408 187g 63g 291g 380mg 3,663mg 41g 33g

    Not a bad day of grub. there was a 2 cups of green bean during the day I forgot to put in there but that is of no real consequence. I often don't count calories for greens.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Olympus Labs Rep - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/252598-kleen-olympus-labs.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Hypertrophy, conditioning and power. Typically the work sets are 6-8 reps but with my shoulder it just wasn't a good idea to go that low.

    Caleb, it normally takes about 45-55 minutes not including the general warm up

    Here is how it went today, there were adjustments on legs because every peice of equipment was in use but leg ext and leg curls, and ALL the DB were being used... New Year Resolutioners need to hurry up and weed themselves out.

    Chins - 10, 10>pulldowns 165x10>120x8

    HS Decline Chest Press - 90x12, 135x10>90x10>45x8

    Machine Lateral Raises - 90x15, 120x10>100x4>70x4

    Close Grip Dips - BWx25, BWx18>CG Push ups x8 > Assisted Dips BW-100x8

    Barbell Curls - 90x12, 90x7>70x4>50x3

    Leg Extensions - 190x12, 250x10>210x6>150x4

    Raised Up Lying Leg Curls - 80x12, 110x11>80x6>50x3

    Heart was racing by the time this was over and every muscle in my body was pumped. I would have definitely liked to have done the leg press and lunges but waiting for something to become available was going to take too long and cool me down. We finished this one in about 50 minutes.
    I don't recognize that workout at all. Looks a lot like it would take a true WARRIOR to finish it!
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I work out early in the morning so there is not really a crowd there to get in my way. I am also pretty flexible with the moving around of thins if need be. I can just do hack squats or leg press, or barbell hacks if both squats are in use however in between exercises is just changing as quickly as possible. You may feel like puking by the end because you change weights so fast that even the rest periods are rushed if you are with a partner. If not then you definitely time between sets. Either way you will not only be stronger but in better condition after it.

    As far as doing legs first when I wrote the program it was after a few years of messing around with it. I found that I could not work legs intensely then continue to hit the rest of my body with as high intensity because not only is it more exhaustive, but it is also whoops the CNS, if CNS is toast the rest of the workout suffers. It is relatively easy to do the upper body then still have intensity for legs but the opposite was not true for me. When comparing the amounts of weight lifting in all lifts I found they weight I could lift on legs did not drop when they were last but when first all my other work suffered.



    Yes Sir 4 fast and furious sets. This bad boy is my favorite as you know. This is the bread and butter that built most of my mass.
    Whenever I did this I would do legs either at the end or in the middle, same goes for standard HST workouts. I personally liked to do legs in the middle then leave only one big movement for after like back or chest and add in bis/tris or shoulders. That way I wasn't gassed by the time I was done if it was in the middle. Legs at the end works well too, just depends like Chris said, on what is available at what point in your workout.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    No doubt, yeah there are some times when I do upper body compounds first like chest shoulders back then do legs an follow up with arm work since they are not too taxing even when working hard at them.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Olympus Labs Rep - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/252598-kleen-olympus-labs.html
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    Well Kleen, just found out mri showed herniated disc. You know anything about them and possible recovery time. I'm hoping surgery isn't an option.
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    Oh yeah just thought I should update Cardio this morning Treadmill 45 minutes plus cool down 519 calories.

    Weighted crunches 110x15, 70x12
    Straight Leg Hanging Leg Raises - 15, 10
    Crunches 5 sets of 25
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Olympus Labs Rep - check us out at Olympus-Labs.com
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/252598-kleen-olympus-labs.html
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