KLEEN is Recovering & Breaking PR's with Wendlers 531 & FINAFLEX!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    So I was talking to Snags and we decided I was going to go to a 5-6 meal a day plan again for a while to see how well my body responds, plus it will increase my eating discipline. I will stick to it for the next several months all the way up to my show just to make sure I have maximum muscle and minimum fat. Should be an interesting ride.
    If discipline is a problem then maybe the conventional method may be what you need who knows. I am the opposite my discipline is tough when I have to eat a small meal, it just pisses me off to no end. I have been able to do it during shorter periods like contest prep but it's really unpleasant for me.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug


  2. I have adopted fasting and I love it. My only problem is consuming enough calories but its not like I have a wasting problem. I don't count calories or generally worry about it. If I feel sluggish and tired I need to eat. If I feel good I'm fine. If I look bloated or fat I know I need to reduce, if I look skinny or small I need to increase. This will change some as I move to clean some things up and drop some BF. But I'm not competing.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    I have adopted fasting and I love it. My only problem is consuming enough calories but its not like I have a wasting problem. I don't count calories or generally worry about it. If I feel sluggish and tired I need to eat. If I feel good I'm fine. If I look bloated or fat I know I need to reduce, if I look skinny or small I need to increase. This will change some as I move to clean some things up and drop some BF. But I'm not competing.
    You get better at gorging, you'd be surprised but there are times when you actually have to do some force feeding...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  4. you all know how i feel about fasting, for the true bb'er who is after continued musculature gains
    LG/IF great - if it suits your lifestyle, and if you just wanna be lean
    you are not gonna add massive amounts of muscle on it tho
    just ain't gonna happen

  5. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you all know how i feel about fasting, for the true bb'er who is after continued musculature gains
    LG/IF great - if it suits your lifestyle, and if you just wanna be lean
    you are not gonna add massive amounts of muscle on it tho
    just ain't gonna happen
    I agree. You definately need continued feeding to gain large amounts of muscle. I am not looking at it as a bodybuilder. And frequent feedings do not suit my schedule as a teacher/coach. For me IF and carbloading allows me more flexibility especially on long work days and travel.
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  6. Thumbs up


    Quote Originally Posted by calebsmitty View Post
    I agree. You definately need continued feeding to gain large amounts of muscle. I am not looking at it as a bodybuilder. And frequent feedings do not suit my schedule as a teacher/coach. For me IF and carbloading allows me more flexibility especially on long work days and travel.
    surely
    perspective, understanding what you are doing and of course, the application and execution of appropriate protocols, is everything

  7. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post

    Fasting does not make one lethargic unless they have a very fast metabolism. I have more energy fasted than at any other time. It's eating that makes me sleepy which is natural.
    Fasting destroys my energy levels. I need carbs consistently to avoid hypoglycemia
    Independent Review

  8. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you all know how i feel about fasting, for the true bb'er who is after continued musculature gains
    LG/IF great - if it suits your lifestyle, and if you just wanna be lean
    you are not gonna add massive amounts of muscle on it tho
    just ain't gonna happen
    Discussed this with Kleen last night, couldn't agree more. Fasting is great and all but only for certain times or like you said, a lifestyle type diet.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).

  9. Excellent conversation in here. Doug I know that you love IF and honestly as a lifestyle diet I know it was working for me. However I have been wanting to go back to my roots for a while. Every dietary strategy is worth trying but one of them got me looking better than anything else ever has. Since I am going into a bodybuilding comp this year now is the time for that method of eating for me. I am in no way knocking IF, I am the one who recommended it to you. I just need to get my calories in now more evenly and with less fullness. Going to bed gorged was taking its toll on my digestive track. Plus I know I will grow more with continuous protein to fuel my growth. IF keeps muscle loss at bay excellently and yes you can grow on it but I do not think you grow optimally on it.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  10. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    you all know how i feel about fasting, for the true bb'er who is after continued musculature gains
    LG/IF great - if it suits your lifestyle, and if you just wanna be lean
    you are not gonna add massive amounts of muscle on it tho
    just ain't gonna happen
    Adding muscle has never been my problem staying lean is. I would add muscle yah then lose a lot of it by having to diet harder. In the long run I believe I can do better using this method staying lean a adding some size slowly with the help of mild anabolics... seems to work ok for me. Not for everybody I know but like you said in your thread, I care about what works for me. I just have to correct people when they say things I don't believe are true like you need food for energy. The body has taken care of that for you, especially once you get used to it. If I wanted I could add more size than I am currently but that is because of my endo body type I know. So size will really never be an issue for me.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  11. No doubt Doug it is working for you. You are looking good.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  12. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Adding muscle has never been my problem staying lean is.
    If I wanted I could add more size than I am currently but that is because of my endo body type I know. So size will really never be an issue for me.
    see - again, understanding of the application, and what you hope to accomplish..this is fine!
    you are not looking to gain size/muscle; i take no issue with you using IF!
    now if you wanted to add some srs mucle in the next yr, i would tell you that you are shooting yourself, in both feet

    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Discussed this with Kleen last night, couldn't agree more. Fasting is great and all but only for certain times or like you said, a lifestyle type diet.
    it's a finny sighting!
    aye mate!

  13. DW I have the same problem. I sit at around 230 average and probably with an average calorie intake weekly of 2500 or less. Size is not my problem. And to be honest restricting calories was never very effective either. When I was young and had the time to pull two a days I was able to get very lean, but now with much less time and control I have found carb restriction to work the best. The fasting has come out of convenience and my belief in controlling insulin.

  14. Yeah DW being an extreme ecto myself I am currently trying to think of a good way to go about eating during my march cycle. I know I plan on everything being extremely lean gains. I don't want to add any fat only drop fat. Maybe il trade PMs with you soon.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/216136-finaflex-1-andro.htmlCurrent log belowhttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/redefine-nutrition/226014-getting-bigger-leaner.html#post3893348

  15. I am a total Endo! Sometimes Endos are simply carb sensitive, or should I say have low insulin sensitivity. YOu can control that a few ways, one is a lower carb, high protein high fat diet and another is using IF to lower the exposure to insulin in order to increase sensitivity. You can do either with great success even as an endo. What I found when doing IF as a lifestyle diet was that I could have a little more latitude in what I ate and still get leaner. Once I was able to eat quite a bit at a sitting though having the same freedom of food choice resulted in adding fat.

    If you want IF to work for you and your goal is not to gain the most amount of LBM possible then simply take your 6 meal protocol and shove all the same nutrients into 2-3 meals with the biggest one being post workout. That is honestly all there is to it.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  16. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    I am a total Endo! Sometimes Endos are simply carb sensitive, or should I say have low insulin sensitivity. YOu can control that a few ways, one is a lower carb, high protein high fat diet and another is using IF to lower the exposure to insulin in order to increase sensitivity. You can do either with great success even as an endo. What I found when doing IF as a lifestyle diet was that I could have a little more latitude in what I ate and still get leaner. Once I was able to eat quite a bit at a sitting though having the same freedom of food choice resulted in adding fat.

    If you want IF to work for you and your goal is not to gain the most amount of LBM possible then simply take your 6 meal protocol and shove all the same nutrients into 2-3 meals with the biggest one being post workout. That is honestly all there is to it.
    Yah it's not complicated but I do have it down to a science now. I do just that, my regular maintenance cals with my activity factored in. I keep track of everying on a spreadsheet and my algorithm is money. The biggest thing I have to watch now is that I am eating enough with the anabolics I am taking. If I have to increase then I will,l bare in mind that I am also slowly trying to continually get leaner as well. I also want to add a little size.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  17. Yeah you have it down and are doing it very well. You add some muscle while remaining lean and or leaning up. So long as you feed the anabolics you will continue to grow. I may go back to IF once I no longer plan to compete, or just go to a 3 - 4 meal a day schedule but for now I am going to try to grow as much as possible while also leaning up. That means protein at all times and keeping carbs under 200 on training days and lower than that on burn days.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  18. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yeah you have it down and are doing it very well. You add some muscle while remaining lean and or leaning up. So long as you feed the anabolics you will continue to grow. I may go back to IF once I no longer plan to compete, or just go to a 3 - 4 meal a day schedule but for now I am going to try to grow as much as possible while also leaning up. That means protein at all times and keeping carbs under 200 on training days and lower than that on burn days.
    I know it's a better off season type of diet but you are competing in the bigger leagues and my size is good enough for what I want to do so I really have a different scenario...
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  19. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    bare in mind
    no i wil not bare with you in your mind, or anywhere else for that matter.
    freak.


    j/p man..
    yes you have obviously done well with it Doug, look the best i have seen you
    good dedication

  20. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    no i wil not bare with you in your mind, or anywhere else for that matter.
    freak.


    j/p man..
    yes you have obviously done well with it Doug, look the best i have seen you
    good dedication
    Yah and the best is still to come I haven't peaked yet
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  21. Quote Originally Posted by DreamWeaver View Post
    Yah and the best is still to come I haven't peaked yet
    Can't wait to see the peak Doug!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  22. Definitely some good convo up in here, make me act a fool, up in here!!!

    When am I ever gonna Peak?
    Dr. Albert Scott Representative for FINAFLEX
    www.finaflex.com
    Redefine Yourself..... REDEFINE EVERYTHING!

  23. Quote Originally Posted by ScottyDoc View Post
    Definitely some good convo up in here, make me act a fool, up in here!!!

    When am I ever gonna Peak?
    You are always peaking at something... peaking at scattered ass mostly!
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  24. Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Discussed this with Kleen last night, couldn't agree more. Fasting is great and all but only for certain times or like you said, a lifestyle type diet.
    Or for certain people.
    Unremarkable is no way to go through life... Doug

  25. Well in the obvious switch to things I know for certain work and work well for me I am also changing up my training again. I am going to do my Kleen Machine workout as I used to call it Warrior Workout. It is a full body 3 times per week workout, I will do it to recomp / cut it really burns a lot of energy and is plenty intense enough to stimulate growth. I think will give me exactly what I am looking for right now. My wife will be doing it with me again which is nice because we were not working out together before due to me doing a 4 day split. She only likes to lift 3 days and with this one if I want to add in an arm specific day I can. I will be hitting Workout 2 tonight because I want the extra day of recovery to be between the Dead Lifts and the Squats

    Rest Periods will be approximately 1 minute or however fast we can change the weights / change exercises.
    WW1: 2 work sets to Form Failure 8-10 reps, second set is a double
    drop set

    Flat DB Bench Press
    Bent Over DB Row,
    Standing Arnold Presses (dumbbells should be out wider than the shoulders at end of movement)
    DB Hammer Curls
    DB Overhead Triceps Extension or Cable Overhead Triceps Ext.
    Squats
    Romanian Deads


    WW2: 2 work sets to Form Failure 8-10 reps, second set is a double drop set

    Chin Ups
    DB or HS Decline Chest Press
    Lateral Raises
    Close Grip Bench
    Barbell Curls
    Leg Press
    Lunges


    WW3: 2 work sets to Form Failure 8-10 reps, second set is a double drop set

    DB or HS Incline Chest Press
    DB Pull Over - Straight Arm Lat Pulldown
    Push Press
    Reverse Curls
    Lying Triceps Extension (with elbow pointed toward back of head at 45 degree angle.)
    Dead Lifts
    Leg Ext
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html
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