Havoc Write-up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graglor View Post
    The doctors in most walk in clinics here just want to get you in and out as fast as possible.
    Yeah im in montreal, I know dude, I used to do that with my buddy lol, it's pretty easy to get what you want, didnt think of trying to get nolva though.. interesting

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    Had a quick question I see that you should have about 3 hours between taking havoc and cycle support..at times this is very hard for me, should I just do the best I can with it(time wise) ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacykid View Post
    Had a quick question I see that you should have about 3 hours between taking havoc and cycle support..at times this is very hard for me, should I just do the best I can with it(time wise) ?
    I will honestly say that my first run on havoc i gained 15lbs and i took my havoc about 1hr after my cycle support. so i wouldn't really stress about the timing. If it was a perfect world 3hrs. would be ideal but it's not really going to make or break your cycle bro. surely not if it happens just a couple of times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacykid View Post
    Had a quick question I see that you should have about 3 hours between taking havoc and cycle support..at times this is very hard for me, should I just do the best I can with it(time wise) ?
    I would honestly try to space them as far apart as possible. I know it can be hard, but adjusting your dosing pattern of the havoc can help. Check the beginning of the write-up for suggestions.

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    great avatar trauma!
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    quick question..at times i feel a tingle in my chest. It has only been one week today since I started. The feeling coming for maybe 3 sec and goes away felt it maybe 6 times total. Im sure its nothing but this is my first cycle, just want someone with more experience to shed some light on this.
    Other then that, No other problems, I feel great, workouts have been great. Getting rdy to bump it up to 30mg!
    Thanks!
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    I'm thinking of pulsing havoc for 4 weeks then doing 8 weeks of hyperdrol/mass fx stack for 8 weeks. Would this work? How about 4 week pulse of havoc followed by a 4 week bridge of HD/MFX then 4 more weeks of havoc pulsed? Which would work better and why (taking into account recovery time before starting a new cycle and equally importantly how much muscle I'm likely to lose after the cycle is over). As you can probably tell I want maximum results without doing a PCT and I have read many posts that say you don't need a PCT when pulsing Havoc. The pulse will be 3 days per week ramping up from 10mg to 40.

    Just wondering of potential pitfalls and things to be wary of with this slightly different way of cycling. I have checked and the basics of it are sound I just want to be 100% sure and more knowledgeable of what I'm doing. I'd like to do another cycle shortly after finishing the first one but will side with caution where possible. Thanks you guys!
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    Decided to go for the 4 week pulse followed by 4 weeks Mass FX/HDx2 just to see how it goes really. Going to start adding in some restore after week 1. Does anyone know if I can use Supercissus while on this? Doesn't seem to be a problem other than I can't find a site in the UK that will sell it it for a reasonable price! Grrr
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    Supercissus will be fine...
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    I know I must split my dosages up through out the day, but I can not sleep at night if I do this. Is it possible if I can take my 30mg or 20mg all at once in the morning? Thanks to anyone who has anygood input.
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    Quote Originally Posted by upyourmass View Post
    I know I must split my dosages up through out the day, but I can not sleep at night if I do this. Is it possible if I can take my 30mg or 20mg all at once in the morning? Thanks to anyone who has anygood input.
    try one morning and one early afteroon.

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    Will do bro
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    hey Dsade,,can u take a look at a thread i started..kinda weird want your advice..and I can take this an hour before bed an sleep fine also
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopyCat View Post
    Just make sure you have everything, your cycle, PCT etc on lock before you start and be able to explain why you are taking different support supps etc. Don't just take stuff.
    I read this a week or two ago. Not sure if it was this post or if I read it in another thread. Probably the best advice you could give anyone who is getting started.

    I will never totally understand everything even though I've spent so much time researching and devouring info that it's f'ing up other areas of my life that are being neglected. Don't know whether to laugh or cry about that.

    Sad thing is that after all this research I may not run the Havoc even though I already bought it (haven't bought anything else yet). There seem to be a lot of rogue unexplained cases of gyno/delayed gyno and unless I can figure out how to eliminate that as a possibility I may not go down this road. Temporary side effects are one thing but permanent disfiguration is not something that's an acceptable "side effect" for me.

    Anyhow, I posted my proposed cycle and PCT in a thread yesterday. I'm not allowed to post links yet but you can find the thread in my posts. I'd really appreciate it if dsade and some of the other seasoned Havoc "pros" could provide feedback.
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    I finished my first cycle of Havoc with pct on January 31, gain 16 pounds and after pct kept 11 very happy with the results and i am planning on starting in about 10 days. Do you think is to soon?
    Last time i dosed Nolva week 1 40 week2 30 week3 20 week 10 and i think it was way too much. Do you think i can lower the dose to something
    week 1 20 week2 10 and use Reversitol weeks 3 and 4
    the dose will be 30 for 4 weeks Havoc
    Thanks
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    Can somebody give a quick example of a "pulse"? There is alot of talk about it on this board, but no examples. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird711 View Post
    Can somebody give a quick example of a "pulse"? There is alot of talk about it on this board, but no examples. Thanks.
    there are tons of examples... Dr.D's pulse method. Search it. Pulsing is dosing every otherday. usually a monday wednesday and friday. then taking the other days off of it.
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    I' like more input. I'm 5'8, 190lbs, 13% bf, bench,squat, dead max- 315,420,455. I am not really concerned with size but rather with strength and health. I'm not opposed to size though.
    I'm starting Havoc tomorrow. For the past nine days i have been prepping with 320 mg saw palmetto, 1000mg milk thistle and liver force. I've been getting 13 gms of an omega complex for many months. I take a mutli as well as extra "c" and "e", magnesium and a glucosamine complex.i have healhy diet only splurging some on the weekends. I hit the gym Mon-fri.
    Starting tomorrow i will take havoc 10mg am, 10mg pwo. I will continue the milk thistle and saw palmetto but will trade the liver force for Detoxygen which has C0q10,etc that was mentioned in you post.
    my plan is to run a six week cycle similar to the one a memebr of my gym just finished. 20,30,40,40,40,40. i will overlap my pct the final week of havoc and run the nolvatest and other supplements the recomened time frame.
    As for the part about drinking. I like to drink on the weekends. Nothing very heavy. Before reading this post i had planed to keep it around 3-4 drinks on Fri/Sat. I can abstain but would rather not.
    Any thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nated View Post
    I' like more input. I'm 5'8, 190lbs, 13% bf, bench,squat, dead max- 315,420,455. I am not really concerned with size but rather with strength and health. I'm not opposed to size though.
    I'm starting Havoc tomorrow. For the past nine days i have been prepping with 320 mg saw palmetto, 1000mg milk thistle and liver force. I've been getting 13 gms of an omega complex for many months. I take a mutli as well as extra "c" and "e", magnesium and a glucosamine complex.i have healhy diet only splurging some on the weekends. I hit the gym Mon-fri.
    Starting tomorrow i will take havoc 10mg am, 10mg pwo. I will continue the milk thistle and saw palmetto but will trade the liver force for Detoxygen which has C0q10,etc that was mentioned in you post.
    my plan is to run a six week cycle similar to the one a memebr of my gym just finished. 20,30,40,40,40,40. i will overlap my pct the final week of havoc and run the nolvatest and other supplements the recomened time frame.
    As for the part about drinking. I like to drink on the weekends. Nothing very heavy. Before reading this post i had planed to keep it around 3-4 drinks on Fri/Sat. I can abstain but would rather not.
    Any thoughts.
    Jeeezus... How much research have you done? Drinks are an absolute no-no on cycle. And best not to drink during PCT. So if your cycle is six weeks that's ten weeks without alcohol. You're going to get ripped for this post.

    Most people would advise against Havoc for six weeks. Four weeks is typical, especially if this is your first cycle.

    What is nolvatest? Do you already have your PCT supplements in hand? Do you have a SERM in case you need it? If not you should not start until you do.

    Lifting 5 days in a row sounds a little crazy too. How much experience do you have and more importantly HOW OLD ARE YOU?

    I'm no expert but I don't think it's a good idea to overlap your PCT with Havoc either.

    I don't think you're ready for this. My .02.
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    how would you explain that i got gyno from week 2 @ 20mg, symptom is still there, i did a 5 weeks @ 20mg, behind my right nipples it s little painful and there is a lump.
    I used havoc Only!

    I never had gyno unless i use HCG or Real gears High Dose! but it was only left nipple and it is clean!
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterX View Post
    how would you explain that i got gyno from week 2 @ 20mg, symptom is still there, i did a 5 weeks @ 20mg, behind my right nipples it s little painful and there is a lump.
    I used havoc Only!

    I never had gyno unless i use HCG or Real gears High Dose! but it was only left nipple and it is clean!
    Forums are loaded with people who got gyno/rebound gyno from Havoc/epi.

    I was going to use Havoc for my first cycle and had everything ready then at the last minute decided to run h-drol instead because of all the gyno problems I read about. There are gyno problems posted as far back as 2007.

    This is not the mild compound people will lead you to believe it is. It works but there are a lot of people who do everything right and still get gyno, even with a SERM.

    Were you totally unaware people were getting gyno before you started your cycle? If so I'd say your research was incomplete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterX View Post
    how would you explain that i got gyno from week 2 @ 20mg, symptom is still there, i did a 5 weeks @ 20mg, behind my right nipples it s little painful and there is a lump.
    I used havoc Only!

    I never had gyno unless i use HCG or Real gears High Dose! but it was only left nipple and it is clean!
    if you had already had gyno previously it could have aggrevated it. Whay have you used to treat it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasLifter89 View Post
    if you had already had gyno previously it could have aggrevated it. Whay have you used to treat it?
    Never talked about treating my gyno as my right tit never had a single symtpom.


    Closed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    Forums are loaded with people who got gyno/rebound gyno from Havoc/epi.
    What rebound? it happened on cycle week 2.

    Havoc is the hype and claim to be better than superdrol (i love superdrol), i gave it a try, week 2 @ 20mg i had a weird feeling right tit (called "gyno flame" new gyno developped by "Havoc" ) i kept using it 3 more weeks same dosage.

    Result: not a big matter because the symtpom is not noticeable; i can feel to the touch something has grown behind my right nipple and that is "Havoc" .


    Listen i used testo, tren, deca, primo, OT, superdrol, hcg, equipoise and so on... i never got a problem i could not resolve because i always had all the infos to counter any unwanted side effects.

    ^^ that means= You should understand i am aware ^^
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterX View Post
    What rebound? it happened on cycle week 2.

    Havoc is the hype and claim to be better than superdrol (i love superdrol), i gave it a try, week 2 @ 20mg i had a weird feeling right tit (called "gyno flame" new gyno developped by "Havoc" ) i kept using it 3 more weeks same dosage.

    Result: not a big matter because the symtpom is not noticeable; i can feel to the touch something has grown behind my right nipple and that is "Havoc" .


    Listen i used testo, tren, deca, primo, OT, superdrol, hcg, equipoise and so on... i never got a problem i could not resolve because i always had all the infos to counter any unwanted side effects.

    ^^ that means= You should understand i am aware ^^
    You sound like you're getting defensive and I don't know why. If you thought I was attacking you or putting you down somehow that wasn't my intent at all.

    You come across as surprised you got gyno from Havoc and I don't think it should come as a surprise. It may be frustrating but shouldn't be a total surprise because I've seen people report gyno symptoms during and after. I've also seen people claim it reduced their gyno. It's just all over the map with this stuff. But I'd think if you've had gyno before it would be a red flag that you might get it from something like Havoc.

    Anyhow, you didn't ask for advice or anything, you just said "how would you explain that i got gyno from week 2 @ 20mg" and as far as I can tell nobody can explain why/when Havoc causes gyno. But sometimes it just does. Fortunately you have enough experience with gyno to resolve it. If something like that happened to me I'd freak out and abort immediately even if it was just two weeks in.

    I hope the gains were good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAGear View Post
    If something like that happened to me I'd freak out and abort immediately even if it was just two weeks in.

    I hope the gains were good!

    There was no reason to abort.

    1- The symtpom "gyno flame" you get the chest sore like if you had dumbell press only one side so i thought at first i did a wrong move while working out so maybe i had a little injury?.?.?..

    2- Then you can feel something is going weirdo next to nipple, before you even know something is going wrong it ll be too late too abort.

    When everybody claim using havoc for gyno reduction and havoc being like an AI and havoc can not give gyno, why should i think it gives me gyno (but i did)...
    I workout a lot and little injuries happen time to time; i am often sore and "gyno flame" is like being sore.


    And what happens when a muscle is sore or get hurt? you wait 2 to 7 days before the pain leave, time to heal....


    Gains were quality muscle, dry. Slight Lean mass gain 10/10 but superdrol is better

    Would like to know what cause the gyno going right side instead of left side?
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    Not sure if I missed it but I workout in the evening around 8:30PM - 9PM. I was just looking for some dosing schedules similar to what was listed on the first page to work with the later workout. I'm running 20/30/30/40. Any suggestions?
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    Bump
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    You can do it different ways. most people dose it pre-workout. When i get up to 4 pills a day i just take 2/2. 2 am then 2 preworkout.
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    I'm in the third week of my havoc cycle. So far so good. My weight has gone from about 190 to about 198 (there's some fluctuation). I have added muscle across the borard(1/4" upper arm, 1/2" chest, etc). My body fat percentage is steady at 13%. My blood pressure is in check. Its seems i'm retaing water most noitcably in my midsection(my traing partner says he sees it in my chest). No phenomonal strength gains but my lifts are noticably up. My recovery is quicker too. there are no side affects that are solely from the havoc. For example, i tend have acne to begin with, sleeplessnes sometimes and am somewhat agressive. All of these are slightly elevated above normal but nothing out of control. At this point i would say i am pretty happy. I'm running 40mg this week (10 upon waking, 10 between 11-12, and then 20 prewprkout which varies from 2-4pm) I will go to fifty next week and run that for my two final weeks. then pct.I'm goging to do an otc pct but i have serm available if i need it. I have been taking my cycle supprot products regularrly, eating 80% clean like i always do(i go out and have a burger and fries, etc on the weekend) and lifting hard. I'm still having a couple of drinks on the weekend but nothing crazy (I had two shots sat). At this point i will probably use Havoc again in the future. I'm just putting this out there for anybody interested. Not really loooking for feedback but not opposed to some. TRAIN HARD!
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    what do you guys find is best while on havoc? Working for strength or mass? And what kinda programs do you do? Low Rep high weight or high rep low weight?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlawedGrunt View Post
    what do you guys find is best while on havoc? Working for strength or mass? And what kinda programs do you do? Low Rep high weight or high rep low weight?
    I had this question before I did my first cycle. And what most people told me to do is continue doing what works for me. But with more intensity than usual.
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    Need some Feedback here, just bouncing some ideas off so tell me what you think.

    Im either going to start havoc or Epistane cycle. First PH cycle. Just turned 21.

    Any OTC PCT anyone would recommend? Stacking PCT's to make up for Nolva?

    Would anyone recommend Pulse cycling Epistane? and if so...should i take a OTC PCT after just to be on the safe side?

    Or should I go with Methyl-1-D and Formidrol PCT from Legal Gear?

    Thoughts?
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    Great review...thank you.
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    Is there any update regarding the production of havoc. Is it going to remain a discontinued item or is it gonna be available again? My understanding of the recent ban was they were after specific compounds and I don't remember epi being one of them, so was just wondering if it was gonna make a comeback or just too risky and bye bye forever?
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    I got no word, but would expect that you will not see Havoc or Epistane come back. It's looking like Epi is still not too far away from hitting the ban list itself. Clones may still get made from other companies, but I dunno.
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    what are the other clones out right now? i loved this stuff
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    Correct me if im wrong, but this stuff apparently turns to phera when expired, in which the FDA does not like. Therefore it will not make a comeback. Idk how all that clone, loophole, stuff works tho. So id say its safe to say STOCK UP NOW, but not before me hah
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    Quote Originally Posted by ianm4208 View Post
    Correct me if im wrong, but this stuff apparently turns to phera when expired, in which the FDA does not like. Therefore it will not make a comeback. Idk how all that clone, loophole, stuff works tho. So id say its safe to say STOCK UP NOW, but not before me hah
    The phera thing is just a recent rumor,and I've seen threads with people asking about that, but have not seen any answers or proof. Not saying that it doesn't or couldn't, just not sure if it does or that I believe it.
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    Lumps behind the nipple isn't necessarily gyno. It can be a number of things ie; inflamed nodes.
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