I think the active in UHer is 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyl-3-keto-delta-1,4,6-etioallocholtriene

Here are all the ingrediants:
ALRI Proprietary blend includes: Avena Sativa Extract 20:1, Agaricus bisporus extract., 6-acetoxy-3-hydroxy-17-keto-etioallocholane, 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyl-3-keto-delta 1,4,6-etioallocholtriene, Condensed Agaricus bisporus extract.
135mg

Originally Posted by jmh80

Here are all the ingrediants:
ALRI Proprietary blend includes: Avena Sativa Extract 20:1, Agaricus bisporus extract., 6-acetoxy-3-hydroxy-17-keto-etioallocholane, 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxyl-3-keto-delta 1,4,6-etioallocholtriene, Condensed Agaricus bisporus extract.
135mg

So basically a 17-aa ATD derivative with some added, exotic herbals. I haven't heard any feedback on it's benefits as an anti-e, but I hear it's mostly used as an anti-cort. One person I've talked to that has run blood on it claimed his liver enzymes were not elevated by it's use at suggested doses, but I can't find any pre-existing info on this compound anywhere and can't find the quantity of the main active from the label info, so I can't honestly say one way or another on this product.

Originally Posted by DR.D

If you only did SD for 3 wks and never exceeded 20mg, plus you have 3wks of 20-40mg Nolva under your belt for PCT, you should be fine to just taper now with RXT. 25mg for another wk or two if you just wanna play it safe, but it is unlikely to regenerate your libido at this point.

Some people complain about loss of libido while on SD cycles and/or while using RXT for PCTs. I haven't have a prob with either yet, but Nolva is notorious for this. I try to avoid it at all costs (for other reasons too) and stick with Clomid.

The PCT I recommended earlier was really just a generic guideline for a longer, more serious shutdown that you likely experienced with your cycle. You could have probably gotten away with a few weeks of Clomid @ 100mg or a month of "natural" therapy (fenugreek/DHEA). Remember though, I have experimented so much over the years, but at my own risk. Overkill is always better than underkill when in doubt about PCT.

Honestly, if I were you at this point, I'd add 100-200mg DHEA/d for another wk or two and see if that helps. ActivaTe is also very effective for libido restoration if you don't have any hCG. ACT does it's magic without elevating estrogen too (like hCG will) so it's a better choice for you IMO now that you are not on a SERM or AI. High daily doses of a Maca/HGW stack or even solo high potency Ginseng extract can be effective too from my experience.

Thanks for the thorough advice Dr. D. It's very much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Gordyr

Thanks for the thorough advice Dr. D. It's very much appreciated.

Not a prob my man. I just hope it helps. I know how libido issues suck! I've gotten pretty good at avoiding them, but it still usually happens to some extent toward the end of a long cycle no matter what.

thanx Dr D.

hmm... i was using cissus in the first 4 weeks when this lump developed.

Originally Posted by ABiLiTY

thanx Dr D.

hmm... i was using cissus in the first 4 weeks when this lump developed.

Anytime friend.

I've been too scared to try it! I believe the feedback I got and haven't even bothered to study the chemicals in it yet. If they are estrogenic, it may explain why they are so effective for connective tissue repair.

Are the Products (Clomid) you get at research -ology legit? When I enlarge the picture's it states not for human consumption it also states research only?

Originally Posted by ABiLiTY

thanx Dr D.

hmm... i was using cissus in the first 4 weeks when this lump developed.

Wait a minute you noticed a lump? don't scare me like that I have been using cissus for 5 weeks ? Please elaborate! also Dr.D it is supposed to be anabolic for some (not me) so how can it be estrogenic and anabolic I am confused almost as much as the above post of mine.
One thing is for sure nothing ever healed my tendons and joints as good as cissus!!

Originally Posted by Lithuanian Bear

Are the Products (Clomid) you get at research -ology legit? When I enlarge the picture's it states not for human consumption it also states research only?

I've lab tested many of them, like CNW and IBE brands, and they are pure quality. Nevertheless, they are not "suitable for human use" without a doctors Rx. They are sold only for research use.

Originally Posted by Lithuanian Bear

Wait a minute you noticed a lump? don't scare me like that I have been using cissus for 5 weeks ? Please elaborate! also Dr.D it is supposed to be anabolic for some (not me) so how can it be estrogenic and anabolic I am confused almost as much as the above post of mine.
One thing is for sure nothing ever healed my tendons and joints as good as cissus!!

Estrogens are very anabolic in connective tissue (bones, cart, tendons, skin, etc..) I wish someone would send me some info or a link or better yet a break down of the active constituents in an average cissus preparation, because I don't know what the hormonal principals are in it and don't really have time to research it right now. I've just heard it's "tits in a bottle" by some of the guys I talk to that have tried it. Most people say like you though, that it is good for joints. Just be careful and keep the doses as low as possible if gyno is a prob.

Dr. D ive heard of people using RXT for 6wkSD cycles but the last 1-2 weeks starting the RXT at high of 100mg-75mg before PCT ...and then while on PCT at 75-50 and tappering down from there along with fenugreek and 6oxo but increasing the dosage of the Fenu and 6oxo till the end of PCT....what do you think of using a PCT similar to this for a 6 wk cycle? and also adding in activaTe too ...

Originally Posted by YonkersCBR954

Dr. D ive heard of people using RXT for 6wkSD cycles but the last 1-2 weeks starting the RXT at high of 100mg-75mg before PCT ...and then while on PCT at 75-50 and tappering down from there along with fenugreek and 6oxo but increasing the dosage of the Fenu and 6oxo till the end of PCT....what do you think of using a PCT similar to this for a 6 wk cycle? and also adding in activaTe too ...

Yeah, I like that idea. I've had good results at avoiding suppression while using RXT on cycle, so I can see starting it a few wks early at higher doses. Also, ramping up the fen is a must for sure. I just don't know about adding 6-oxo though. I'd think it would mostly be wasted because the higher binding affinity of RXT would compete and win for the aromatase enzyme. What may work better is to just replace the RXT with 6-oxo at some point later in the PCT.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Yeah, I like that idea. I've had good results at avoiding suppression while using RXT on cycle, so I can see starting it a few wks early at higher doses. Also, ramping up the fen is a must for sure. I just don't know about adding 6-oxo though. I'd think it would mostly be wasted because the higher binding affinity of RXT would compete and win for the aromatase enzyme. What may work better is to just replace the RXT with 6-oxo at some point later in the PCT.

i see ...so what about the last 2 weeks using the 6oxo or could i just get away with just not using it at all? ...how would i go about adding in activaTe in with a pct like this ...

Originally Posted by YonkersCBR954

i see ...so what about the last 2 weeks using the 6oxo or could i just get away with just not using it at all? ...how would i go about adding in activaTe in with a pct like this ...

Either way would be fine. It would be interesting to see what the 6-oxo addition would yield, or you could just finish off with the RXT. The ActivaTe could be added a few wks before or after PCT is initiated. 6wks total is my current suggestion for ACT though.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Either way would be fine. It would be interesting to see what the 6-oxo addition would yield, or you could just finish off with the RXT. The ActivaTe could be added a few wks before or after PCT is initiated. 6wks total is my current suggestion for ACT though.

cool thanks for the info ...i think im going to do it with the 6-oxo and add in the acticaTe also ...im going to order everything this week and ill post on how everything goes ...

Originally Posted by DR.D

I suggest it this way to incorporate into the above PCT scheme:

wk-1: ACT half dose
wk1: ACT full dose, fen 3 caps
wk2: ACT full dose, fen 4 caps
wk3: ACT full dose, fen 5 caps
wk4: ACT full dose, fen 6 caps
wk5: ACT full dose
wk6: ACT half dose

ACT definitely helps refresh the end of a stale cycle. I once started it 2 wks before PCT and that worked well too. I have used it 8 wks straight, but the pumps and libido effects died after 7 wks for me. Don't milk it too long, unless it's still working for you. In that case, go ahead and stay on it if you want. Some have told me it has worked past 2 months for them, I wish it had for me. For me, 6-7 wks seemed like a perfect rotation time, then 3-4 wks off before starting again.

With the fenugreek, it only works for 3-4 wks at a time and must be ramped every wk, then you must break for at least 2 wks to restore benefits. You can cycle fen 4on/2off or 3on/1off forever. I use Nature's Way or NOW caps (500-650mg/cap). I always include fen in PCT and from now on ACT too. ACT makes it so easy to keep gaining during PCT and the usual sides from the SERM are not evident. Try it and you will be a believer!

Thanks Dr D I've been trying to find out more about ActivaTE and you've answered most of my questions, I think I'm goin' give it a whirl in my PCT.

Hey DR.D....just curious as to how the recent availability of Toremifene changes things??

Originally Posted by DR.D

Estrogen only "rebounds" based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AI's like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AI's like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in 'rebound' phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AI's often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered. Adding LX and/or DHEA also really makes for a killer PCT in this scheme. This is a typical example of my PCT:

wk1: Clomid 150mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 75mg/d
wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 50mg/d
wk3: Nolva 60mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 25mg/d
wk4: Nolva 40mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk5: Nolva 20mg/d, RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk6: RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d

Notice I phase the Clomid out and introduce the Nolva later. This helps prevent sides from developing from accumulation of estrogenic metabolites from the Clomid and also acts to minimize the use of Nolva, which is more liver toxic than Clomid. Rebound is very unlikely and estrogen biosynthesis will likely be significantly lowered for 3+ wks even after the end of this PCT. I do long ones, as you can see.

Originally Posted by mmorpheuss

Hey DR.D....just curious as to how the recent availability of Toremifene changes things??

This is my general suggestion for a Toremifene PCT protocol:
For simple, 4wk oral only cycles,

wk1: 60-120mg/d
wk2: 30-60mg/d
wk3: 30mg/d
wk4: 30mg/d

But for long 5-12wk cycles with multiple, layered anabolics,

wk1: 120mg/d
wk2: 90-120mg/d
wk3: 60-90mg/d
wk4: 30-60mg/d
wk5: 30mg/d
wk6: 30mg/d
wk7: (30mg only if needed)
wk8: (30mg only if needed)

No other SERM is needed. Nolva can be subbed in for toremifene at wk 3-5 (just like with the Clomid example) for the sake of economy on long PCTs, but they should probably not be stacked simultaneously. Doses depend on your response really. I always did best starting at a full 120mg. I never took doses higher than that because it was not necessary.

Originally Posted by DR.D

This is my general suggestion for a Toremifene PCT protocol:
For simple, 4wk oral only cycles,

wk1: 60-120mg/d
wk2: 30-60mg/d
wk3: 30mg/d
wk4: 30mg/d

With this protocol, would you run it inverse to ATD (as you stated to do with the other SERM's). Or is the toremifene good enough standalone.

Originally Posted by POTR33

With this protocol, would you run it inverse to ATD (as you stated to do with the other SERM's). Or is the toremifene good enough standalone.

My question also, as I'm just finishing a 12 week test/4 week superdrol cycle.

I can't believe I'm actually excited to see how my upcoming PCT goes

Originally Posted by DR.D

Estrogen only "rebounds" based on the mechanism of suppression. SERM, for example, only masks estrogen expression by occupying receptors but estrogen production is left unchecked and actually increases as testosterone levels increase. AI's like letro inhibit inducible enzymes and just like a leaky faucet, they body will eventually try to balance the equation with increased aromatase activity. Steroidal AI's like Teslac, Exemestane, and ReboundXT will not result in 'rebound' phenomena because the inhibition is non-competitive and irreversible. They act as false substrates, so aromatase is still happy to act on them (instead of androstenedione) and the body keeps no record of an imbalance. There is no leaky faucet. In fact, after prolonged use, steroidal AI's often produce a protracted anti-e benefit even after being discontinued. This is why I suggest an inverse taper with SERM and RXT for PCT with an abrupt stoppage of RXT at the end. As the SERM elevates androgen/estrogen production, the AI dose is increased to compensate while the SERM is phased out. It works quite well to use this approach and rebound is not encountered. Adding LX and/or DHEA also really makes for a killer PCT in this scheme. This is a typical example of my PCT:

wk1: Clomid 150mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 75mg/d
wk2: Clomid 100mg/d, RXT 25mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 50mg/d
wk3: Nolva 60mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 200mg/d, LX 25mg/d
wk4: Nolva 40mg/d, RXT 50mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk5: Nolva 20mg/d, RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d
wk6: RXT 75mg/d, DHEA 100mg/d

Notice I phase the Clomid out and introduce the Nolva later. This helps prevent sides from developing from accumulation of estrogenic metabolites from the Clomid and also acts to minimize the use of Nolva, which is more liver toxic than Clomid. Rebound is very unlikely and estrogen biosynthesis will likely be significantly lowered for 3+ wks even after the end of this PCT. I do long ones, as you can see.

also, those doses on the Lean Xtreme seem off considering each cap is 50mg, and your scheme is in 25mg increments. also the bottle recommends a maximum of 6 caps a day (2 caps/3 times daily = 300mg), so your recommendation seems awfully low.

am i missing something?

Originally Posted by Wanker527

also, those doses on the Lean Xtreme seem off considering each cap is 50mg, and your scheme is in 25mg increments. also the bottle recommends a maximum of 6 caps a day (2 caps/3 times daily = 300mg), so your recommendation seems awfully low.

am i missing something?

The doses are low that I suggested. The minimum. 50mg increments are more compatible with the caps available. You can do much higher doses than that too, but I always try to give the most economical advice. I'll even buy empty gel caps and cut my own caps in half if I can! Still, you can't go wrong with 150,100,50. Through I know some who do much higher doses with no ill effects, just for the added fat loss that massive doses deliver. For an anti-catabolic effect in PCT, the lower doses are fine I think. If taking the caps on an empty stomach or with no fat or emulsifiers, the higher doses are strongly suggested because of lower absorption. Also, you can take around 6caps/day if dieting or on stims because cortisol will be elevated in such cases.

Originally Posted by POTR33

With this protocol, would you run it inverse to ATD (as you stated to do with the other SERM's). Or is the toremifene good enough standalone.

Yes. I would suggest a modified form of the original inverse protocol. Instead of 3 phases, just 2. Like this:

wk1: Tor 60-120mg/d, RXT 25mg
wk2: Tor 30-60mg/d, RXT 25mg
wk3: Tor 30mg/d, RXT 50mg
wk4: Tor 30mg/d, RXT 50mg

A less dramatic taper with a lower ending dose of RXT. You still get the benefits of increased LH output upfront, but don't risk the adverse libido effects at the end from 75mg of RXT. It should still be very effective. After the PCT, you could even trail off with 25-50mg of RXT indefinitely IMO.

Originally Posted by Wanker527

... I can't believe I'm actually excited to see how my upcoming PCT goes

Me too! Toremifene/RXT plus ACT, it's on now! It's really amazing how good the PCT options are these days. It's like the dream stack.

Damn good info in this thread, I have been on Cissus for about 7 months and in the last 3 months or so I have been getting THO ( titty hard on ) alot for no apparent reason, I even asked my Doc. who said it may be the proscar, but I have been proscar for about 6 years, my joints are ALOT better since the addition of Cissus but I am on a S1+ cycle now and it is a little worse, I may reduce my Cissus and see if it helps, once again the info here is priceless........

Originally Posted by DR.D

The doses are low that I suggested. The minimum. 50mg increments are more compatible with the caps available. You can do much higher doses than that too, but I always try to give the most economical advice. I'll even buy empty gel caps and cut my own caps in half if I can! Still, you can't go wrong with 150,100,50. Through I know some who do much higher doses with no ill effects, just for the added fat loss that massive doses deliver. For an anti-catabolic effect in PCT, the lower doses are fine I think. If taking the caps on an empty stomach or with no fat or emulsifiers, the higher doses are strongly suggested because of lower absorption. Also, you can take around 6caps/day if dieting or on stims because cortisol will be elevated in such cases.

awesome! thanks Dr.D, your help is priceless

Great info in this thread, I'm learning a lot here. Thanks Dr. D

I apologize up front for the possible silly question... however.... what is the full product name of RXT?

I am about to start my 3 or 4 week SD cycle and would like to use the Toremifene/RXT plus ACT. I already have the Toremifene, just need the RXT and ACT.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by DR.D

Me too! Toremifene/RXT plus ACT, it's on now! It's really amazing how good the PCT options are these days. It's like the dream stack.

Originally Posted by Ronin13

I apologize up front for the possible silly question... however.... what is the full product name of RXT?

I am about to start my 3 or 4 week SD cycle and would like to use the Toremifene/RXT plus ACT. I already have the Toremifene, just need the RXT and ACT.

Thanks.

Rebound XT by Designer Supplements.
Rebound Reloaded should be out soon though.