Bulk Creatine Nitrate

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Interesting. Have you used GPLC? How were your results?

    What would you say is better for anaerobic fatigue and increasing NO; GPLC or Nitrates?

    (not necessarily creatine nitrate since there are no studies on that)
    My training is not geared towards a pump (I mainly do compound lifts with maybe 6 sets of isolation work total per week), but I still get a nice fullness with GPLC at 1.5-3.0g about 60 minutes before training. Where GPLC really shines is in the cardio department. I can push harder for longer and my recovery time between sparring rounds is noticeably improved.

    As far as a direct comparison, I really couldn't make that since I'm not sure how much is in roughly 100g of spinach, which I consume several hours before training.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys



  2. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    My training is not geared towards a pump (I mainly do compound lifts with maybe 6 sets of isolation work total per week), but I still get a nice fullness with GPLC at 1.5-3.0g about 60 minutes before training. Where GPLC really shines is in the cardio department. I can push harder for longer and my recovery time between sparring rounds is noticeably improved.

    As far as a direct comparison, I really couldn't make that since I'm not sure how much is in roughly 100g of spinach, which I consume several hours before training.
    My training is similar, I typically don't get pumps.

    I thought I saw some newer study showing GPLC didn't have an effect on NO at 3g or less? The only "study" I've seen showing effect on NO was at 4.5g GPLC. It's interesting that you still get an effect despite the studies.

    As for comparison, I was basing it on studies, as in the increase in NO for 4.5g GPLC versus the amounts studied for Nitrates. Given that Nitrates are used to treat cardiovascular patients, the dose curve should be pretty well documented.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    My training is not geared towards a pump (I mainly do compound lifts with maybe 6 sets of isolation work total per week), but I still get a nice fullness with GPLC at 1.5-3.0g about 60 minutes before training. Where GPLC really shines is in the cardio department. I can push harder for longer and my recovery time between sparring rounds is noticeably improved.

    As far as a direct comparison, I really couldn't make that since I'm not sure how much is in roughly 100g of spinach, which I consume several hours before training.
    You would need roughly 3 times that by my estimation to be comparable (referring to the spinach)
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  4. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    You would need roughly 3 times that by my estimation to be comparable (referring to the spinach)
    How are you coming up with those numbers with a prop blend... and the fact that environmental factors change the levels of nitrates in all produce?
    The Historic PES Legend

  5. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How are you coming up with those numbers with a prop blend... and the fact that environmental factors change the levels of nitrates in all produce?
    It's in the infamous Popeye studies, of course! It took 2 cans to really pump up Popeye, so that equates to 300g.

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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    My training is similar, I typically don't get pumps.

    I thought I saw some newer study showing GPLC didn't have an effect on NO at 3g or less? The only "study" I've seen showing effect on NO was at 4.5g GPLC. It's interesting that you still get an effect despite the studies.

    As for comparison, I was basing it on studies, as in the increase in NO for 4.5g GPLC versus the amounts studied for Nitrates. Given that Nitrates are used to treat cardiovascular patients, the dose curve should be pretty well documented.
    Having used both CN and GPLC for extended periods of time, in regards to the pump (which I don't train for as well) CN out performs GPLC by a wide margin (note simply my opinion regardless of what studies are or aren't available). My strength was up as well while on CN, as opposed to GPLC, which as referenced above is dose dependent. Some users reporting that GPLC needs to be dosed higher in order to see any benefits, which is costly in comparison to CN.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    How are you coming up with those numbers with a prop blend... and the fact that environmental factors change the levels of nitrates in all produce?
    I was comparing it to the amount of nitrates supplemented in the performance study, not the aps product. I'm not certain in my calculations, it was a rough estimate. I can probably figure it out this weekend when spring break starts and I have more time.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    It's in the infamous Popeye studies, of course! It took 2 cans to really pump up Popeye, so that equates to 300g.

    I'm basing that off the studies on nitrates alone. Spinach doesnt contain creatine in appreciable amounts last time I chhecked...
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  9. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    I was comparing it to the amount of nitrates supplemented in the performance study, not the aps product. I'm not certain in my calculations, it was a rough estimate. I can probably figure it out this weekend when spring break starts and I have more time.
    My question was a big reference that nitrate levels are different from where it is grown. More fertilizer can increase the plant levels tremendously, so making a stout judgment will not be valid.
    The Historic PES Legend

  10. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    My question was a big reference that nitrate levels are different from where it is grown. More fertilizer can increase the plant levels tremendously, so making a stout judgment will not be valid.
    Wouldnt that further support the use of a nitrate supplement? Your point works both ways.

    Anyways, if I remember correctly there is a general range of nitrate content that's discussed in one of these studies and I assume referenced. You could calculate using both the low and high or use a variety of vegetables. I'm fairly sure beets contain the highest nitrate content in the vegetable world, however not many people eat them and they contain a decent amount of sugar.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by custom View Post
    Sorry fellas, I submitted our PO and apparently this material is not being authorized for bulk sales.



    We tried.

    We also should have APS' product in shortly.
    Authorized by who, is there a single holder on the patent rights of the compound? Why else would this not be able to be sourced in bulk?

    I wish companies didn't have to put shiny labels on things and throw in a few 'proprietary' additions to be able to call something a 'finalized' supplement for market.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Authorized by who, is there a single holder on the patent rights of the compound? Why else would this not be able to be sourced in bulk?

    I wish companies didn't have to put shiny labels on things and throw in a few 'proprietary' additions to be able to call something a 'finalized' supplement for market.
    It's patented. Mentioned more than once in this thread.
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  13. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Wouldnt that further support the use of a nitrate supplement? Your point works both ways.

    Anyways, if I remember correctly there is a general range of nitrate content that's discussed in one of these studies and I assume referenced. You could calculate using both the low and high or use a variety of vegetables. I'm fairly sure beets contain the highest nitrate content in the vegetable world, however not many people eat them and they contain a decent amount of sugar.
    So you know exactly how much is in CN as well? people seem to somehow qualifying and quantifying complete unknowns except to the formulator, and being a prop blend, or what the ionic bind at what ratio, you are making guesses.
    The Historic PES Legend

  14. All this science talk makes me wonder if I'm experiencing real results...

    It also makes me wonder if I take superdrol if I'll get gains, I haven't seen the studies so it must be broscience...


    Outstanding, I thought you were done with these kinds of posts, what happened (sent on my iPhone while driving and drinking a latte)?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Authorized by who, is there a single holder on the patent rights of the compound? Why else would this not be able to be sourced in bulk?

    I wish companies didn't have to put shiny labels on things and throw in a few 'proprietary' additions to be able to call something a 'finalized' supplement for market.
    *All that is stated hereafter is complete assumption, treat it as such until Custom clarifies if he chooses to.

    NP buys bulk from a list (I assume) of approved GMP suppliers, they stated not long ago all bulk powders will be GMP certified. That said, their supplier(s) that they went to with a PO for creatine nitrate may not have access to it due to a myriad of reasons, patent being one of them that is likely or some type of exclusivity contract with one or more supplement companies. If Custom can't get it now, there has to be a good reason as he already tried and I assume will continue to try until it is available. Why NP does not have the APS CN in stock is again a mystery, probably supply related, so we are stuck with that and Mesomorph as our options until bulk arrives.

    End all assumption, continue with your science argument .
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).

  16. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    So you know exactly how much is in CN as well? people seem to somehow qualifying and quantifying complete unknowns except to the formulator, and being a prop blend, or what the ionic bind at what ratio, you are making guesses.
    You keep reverting back to cn. I'm not referring to anything but nitrates.
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  17. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    So you know exactly how much is in CN as well? people seem to somehow qualifying and quantifying complete unknowns except to the formulator, and being a prop blend, or what the ionic bind at what ratio, you are making guesses.
    Also I'm fairly sure this info (regarding the cn ratio) has been stated on thermos forum. And is likely available by just asking ron.
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Also I'm fairly sure this info (regarding the cn ratio) has been stated on thermos forum. And is likely available by just asking ron.
    They can state it all they want, but until it is on the side of a bottle, they can say there is 2999mgs of CN, and 1 mg of Vitamin C.. they are not bound to say anything truthful about it at the moment.

    I guess I am much more skeptical than many people around. like I said earlier. To each their own. There really is no reason to debate it further. If you get results, then support the company that brought it to you, it is something not seen in the industry and I urge people to support innovation in the end.
    The Historic PES Legend

  19. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    They can state it all they want, but until it is on the side of a bottle, they can say there is 2999mgs of CN, and 1 mg of Vitamin C.. they are not bound to say anything truthful about it at the moment.

    I guess I am much more skeptical than many people around. like I said earlier. To each their own. There really is no reason to debate it further. If you get results, then support the company that brought it to you, it is something not seen in the industry and I urge people to support innovation in the end.
    DA...just wanted to chime in and say great response. I too am skeptical about many products/ingredients that are used throughout the industry, many of which are supported with shoddy pseudo-scientific references. When CN first came to my attention, the first thought that popped in my head was "CEE here we go again". I took a chance anyway after reading up on nitrates and I'm glad that I did. CN in my personal opinion is a home run product.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    They can state it all they want, but until it is on the side of a bottle, they can say there is 2999mgs of CN, and 1 mg of Vitamin C.. they are not bound to say anything truthful about it at the moment.

    I guess I am much more skeptical than many people around. like I said earlier. To each their own. There really is no reason to debate it further. If you get results, then support the company that brought it to you, it is something not seen in the industry and I urge people to support innovation in the end.
    Prob blends are BullSh:t I hate them. But CN is king of the pump


  21. Hey DAdams,
    I was very skeptical at first as well. However, I can say that creatine nitrate has really impressed me. P.M me your addy and I'll send you some of mine to try. I'd be curious for your feedback as I respect your opinion and have learned from you over the years. I'm not associated with any company in any way or form.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by StakedCop View Post
    Prob blends are BullSh:t I hate them. But CN is king of the pump
    I don't get the point of a prop blend if you are the only one who can sell it or have some exclusivity with the supplier. Every product is eventually copied, either well or not well, all you are doing is delaying the inevitable.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).

  23. Look...somebody did the leg work:

    Quote Originally Posted by neuron View Post
    It's definitely possible to create this stack on your own.
    Here's how you figure out the nitrate content of various salts:

    Creatine (C4H9N302) has a molecular weight of 131g/mol
    Nitrate (NO3) has a molecular weight of 62g/mol

    1 mole of creatine nitrate = 131g/mol + 62g/mol = 193g/mol

    So, nitrate would make up (62/193) ~32%

    C-bol has (I believe) 1gram of creatine nitrate, so 1g x .32 = 320mg/serving

    It recommends 2 servings per day, so 640mg of nitrate/day

    Potassium: 39.098 g/mol
    Nitrate (again): ~62 g/mol

    1 mole KNO3: 101.1 g/mol

    Nitrates by weight (62/101) = 61.3%

    1 gram of KN03 times .613 = 613mg's of nitrate
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    You? You're one of the most cordial folks on here! You're not "repping" Creatine Nitrate again, are you?
    lol, thanks. apparently my outspoken fondness for creatine nitrate struck a nerve with some of the mono advocates.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  25. Quote Originally Posted by thebigt View Post
    lol, thanks. apparently my outspoken fondness for creatine nitrate struck a nerve with some of the mono advocates.
    Down with the mono-poly!

  26. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    Down with the mono-poly!
    to each their own. if they think spinach and mono is better than creatine nitrate, more power to em.
    WELL DONE IS BETTER THAN WELL SAID

  27. Quote Originally Posted by Milas View Post
    All this science talk makes me wonder if I'm experiencing real results...

    It also makes me wonder if I take superdrol if I'll get gains, I haven't seen the studies so it must be broscience...


    Outstanding, I thought you were done with these kinds of posts, what happened (sent on my iPhone while driving and drinking a latte)?
    I'm not sure what you mean by 'these kinds of posts?' Did we have a talk about me not making posts anymore wondering why we can't buy bulk creatine nitrate before?

  28. Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by 'these kinds of posts?' Did we have a talk about me not making posts anymore wondering why we can't buy bulk creatine nitrate before?
    I meant pointless threads, not that the bulk creatine nitrate is pointless, but the conversation had degraded. No need to dredge up the past though...

  29. Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Someone send me some CN and I will answer this debate! I am interested to see if it works as everyone says as I don't get "crazy pumps" unless I have the reps high or do a lot of drop sets.
    I will take you up on that offer for sure!

    I would love to get your thoughts on our new Watermelon Mesomorph and Creatine Nitrate!
    Core Nutritionals Representative

  30. Quote Originally Posted by JudgementDay View Post
    I will take you up on that offer for sure!

    I would love to get your thoughts on our new Watermelon Mesomorph and Creatine Nitrate!
    I can't take stimulants such as Meso, but I'm interested to see what you think of Creatine Nitrate samples. The only thing I've ever experiences painful pumps on have been hormones, the day after a massive cheat meal, when my water intake is extremely high and nutrition is perfect, and with a VERY select grouping of supplements from over the years.
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