Jan's BloodTest April13/2007

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    Jan's BloodTest April13/2007


    Please comment.
    My results are on attached picture.
    I hope everybody is able to see the complete picture, if not I will have to split it into two pages.
    Clicking on left mouse increases picture for better view.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    What kind of comments were you looking for, perhaps people need more details as to what you are looking for?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Please comment.
    My results are on attached picture.
    I hope everybody is able to see the complete picture, if not I will have to split it into two pages.
    Clicking on left mouse increases picture for better view.
    I know you've shared before, but it's hard to remember which other threads, so I ask:

    1) how do you feel?
    2) what was your current TRT regimen at the time when you took the tests and how long had you been steady?
    3) what vitamins and supps do you take?
    4) what is your diet like?
    5) what is your exercise regimen?
    •   
       

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    I am 67yo, 6'9", 160#
    Other than my aching back I feel ok, but could use more energy.
    Almost every other day I need to take afternoon nap, this is new for me.
    I do one hour per week gym under supervision. Generally to improve my overall strength and core muscles. I wish I had enough energy for another gym day.
    I do dancing (aerobics) about 4 hours /week and attend dancing classes 6hrs/week, not sure how to count that it is much less energetic.
    My diet is not really organized but probably not really bad.
    I eat lots of nuts and fruits, should eat more vegetables.

    I used to use 10grams of Androgel and had TT=932ng/dL(241-827)
    I switched to equal amount by Test content, Tcream 1gram/day, 100mg/1gram, and my TT falled to 456, most likely part of the reason for lower energy.
    I have increased Tcream dose to 2gram/day, if that is not enough I will probably try shots. I have grandson running around and can use only my calves to put Tcream on.

    Current test shows too much copper, I stopped my LEF multivitamins with extra niacin and ordered same minus copper.

    My current test shows DHEAs 3x over limit I attribute that to my using pregnenolone prescription cream 100mg/1gram, 1gram/day.
    I stopped DHEA supplementation.

    My current test shows decent cholesterol, possibly too low. This is first in very long time. I attribute that to red yeast rice that I started few months back. It is supported by CoQ10 and Super Omega-3 EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract from LEF.
    I take a tons of supplements from LEF. I stopped their recommended Sytrinol as it did not do its job.

    My current test shows Total estrogen and Estrone within range, they were way over range before (and I was told here that nothing can be done about it, and better to not test it). Also my Estradiol stays put at 27. I attribute it to six pills of DualAcrion and 2 pills of TMG both from LEF. DualAction is their version of DIM, heavily supported with I3C, cruciferous extracts, resveratol and others.
    I changed to 4 pills of DualAction.

    I started 0.25cc/day of LiquiDex, equal to 1/4 pill of Arimidex. After about a week I had to stop that, my nightly wood told me to do that. I guess I am good at E2=27. Scratching my head, I would like to prop my # of ejaculations/week and do not know how.

    My Prolactin went slightly up and last test show it at =5.9, since Dr Shippen likes it at 3 I started Vitex 2 pills daily, after about week and half I see no difference.

    My previous test show FreeT3=2.9 (2.3-4.2) so I (slowly) added 4 grains Armour Thyroid (and 10mg Cortef), latter stopped Cortef. Last test show FreeT3=486(230-420), over the range, I now take 3grains. Must say that other than little higher body temperature I do not see any difference. I was actually expecting to achieve huge difference in energy levels. Nothing, but my body temp is at desired 36.5C=97.7F slightly less than 36.6C=97.9F I had at my youth.

    My SHBG=20 is not that bad, but is slightly below normal range. I have reduce number prostate pills that I take and Super MiraForte, a Chrysin and Nettle product.

    My DHT was 226 now 143 (25-75), it is to high, not sure if I should take Avodart. Lower values now are probably due to lower cream application area and lower TotalT.

    I have some tests that are (somewhat) over the range it is either Quest or LEF range, ferritin, sodium, Fibrinogen, Hemoglobin A1C, Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A), Glucose. Could use some guidance.

    Please look over my test and try to divine some advice.

    Mostly how to make me go to gym second day within a week and how to stop afternoon naps.
    -----------------------
    Edited, my height is 5'9"
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am 67yo, 6'9", 160#
    Other than my aching back I feel ok, but could use more energy.
    Almost every other day I need to take afternoon nap, this is new for me.
    I do one hour per week gym under supervision. Generally to improve my overall strength and core muscles. I wish I had enough energy for another gym day.
    I do dancing (aerobics) about 4 hours /week and attend dancing classes 6hrs/week, not sure how to count that it is much less energetic.
    My diet is not really organized but probably not really bad.
    I eat lots of nuts and fruits, should eat more vegetables.

    I used to use 10grams of Androgel and had TT=932ng/dL(241-827)
    I switched to equal amount by Test content, Tcream 1gram/day, 100mg/1gram, and my TT falled to 456, most likely part of the reason for lower energy.
    I have increased Tcream dose to 2gram/day, if that is not enough I will probably try shots. I have grandson running around and can use only my calves to put Tcream on.

    Current test shows too much copper, I stopped my LEF multivitamins with extra niacin and ordered same minus copper.

    My current test shows DHEAs 3x over limit I attribute that to my using pregnenolone prescription cream 100mg/1gram, 1gram/day.
    I stopped DHEA supplementation.

    My current test shows decent cholesterol, possibly too low. This is first in very long time. I attribute that to red yeast rice that I started few months back. It is supported by CoQ10 and Super Omega-3 EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract from LEF.
    I take a tons of supplements from LEF. I stopped their recommended Sytrinol as it did not do its job.

    My current test shows Total estrogen and Estrone within range, they were way over range before (and I was told here that nothing can be done about it, and better to not test it). Also my Estradiol stays put at 27. I attribute it to six pills of DualAcrion and 2 pills of TMG both from LEF. DualAction is their version of DIM, heavily supported with I3C, cruciferous extracts, resveratol and others.
    I changed to 4 pills of DualAction.

    I started 0.25cc/day of LiquiDex, equal to 1/4 pill of Arimidex. After about a week I had to stop that, my nightly wood told me to do that. I guess I am good at E2=27. Scratching my head, I would like to prop my # of ejaculations/week and do not know how.

    My Prolactin went slightly up and last test show it at =5.9, since Dr Shippen likes it at 3 I started Vitex 2 pills daily, after about week and half I see no difference.

    My previous test show FreeT3=2.9 (2.3-4.2) so I (slowly) added 4 grains Armour Thyroid (and 10mg Cortef), latter stopped Cortef. Last test show FreeT3=486(230-420), over the range, I now take 3grains. Must say that other than little higher body temperature I do not see any difference. I was actually expecting to achieve huge difference in energy levels. Nothing, but my body temp is at desired 36.5C=97.7F slightly less than 36.6C=97.9F I had at my youth.

    My SHBG=20 is not that bad, but is slightly below normal range. I have reduce number prostate pills that I take and Super MiraForte, a Chrysin and Nettle product.

    My DHT was 226 now 143 (25-75), it is to high, not sure if I should take Avodart. Lower values now are probably due to lower cream application area and lower TotalT.

    I have some tests that are (somewhat) over the range it is either Quest or LEF range, ferritin, sodium, Fibrinogen, Hemoglobin A1C, Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A), Glucose. Could use some guidance.

    Please look over my test and try to divine some advice.

    Mostly how to make me go to gym second day within a week and how to stop afternoon naps.

    Fibrinogen: fish oil, niacin
    sodium: drink plenty of H2O, reduce dietary sodium to around 2000 mg/day or less;
    ferritin: switch to a multi-vit that has no iron, get transferrin saturation done to check for iron overload;
    HbA1C: restrict carbohydrate intake, stick to low-glycemic, get plenty of healthy fats and protein
    glucose: same as for HbA1C;
    not sure about Lp (A).
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    You are 6'9? Do you mean 5'9? If your 6'9, that in itself explains your bad back. This world is not designed for 6'9 people, pretty much every guy over 40 I know that is excessively tall has back issues to do this. All the extra bending over/cramming you people have to do aint easy. Makes me glad Im a short guy, everything is desgined for me

    JansZ, you need more T. Bottom line, no escaping it. Switching over to shots might be your best route. You can(and I advise it) to keep using pregnenolone cream, just get it without T.

    Your DHT will continue to go down as you keep up with preg cream, and even more so when you switch over to shots.

    Is chrysin in your cream? Dump it, your SHBG low no reason to lower it.

    Ferritin is a marker for iron. You like alot of people probably avoid iron like the plague, hence the lower range. Find a good chelated mineral supp and try throwing in low dose iron for a bit and see ferritin go up to normal.

    Lp(A) can be lowered with green leafy vegetable intake and B vitamin supplementation. I keep on you jansZ about eating your veggies you must listen. If I can't get you to cook you should try my latest venture Im on and start juicing - Official Site : Jack LaLanne's Power Juicer As Seen On TV - The Official Power Juicer Site for Fast Healthy Fresh Fruit Juice and Vegetable Juice in Seconds.

    In reference to Hemoglobin and Glucose check out the links I left for you. If you mistyped and you are only 5'9 at 160 Im assuming you might be carrying around a little extra weight.

    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed
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    Again, Im wary of Vitex from most places. When Biotest comes out with Vitex product you will be first to know.
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    your elevated dhea is probably throwing off your PSA as well as your estrogen metabolism. E2 could come down a bit may be to 15-20 it may open up your free test levels. Copper is probably depleting iron since they compete..Copper is due to probably adrenal secreting it out of the tissue from some kind of detoxification. I bet the lowering of total estrogen might have freed it up from the tissue..
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    You are 6'9? Do you mean 5'9? If your 6'9, that in itself explains your bad back. This world is not designed for 6'9 people, pretty much every guy over 40 I know that is excessively tall has back issues to do this. All the extra bending over/cramming you people have to do aint easy. Makes me glad Im a short guy, everything is desgined for me
    I am 5'9", sorry for typo.

    JansZ, you need more T. Bottom line, no escaping it. Switching over to shots might be your best route. You can(and I advise it) to keep using pregnenolone cream, just get it without T. Yes to pregnenolone. Yes to T, I intend to be on top of my FreeT or BioAvailableT. The current dip happened due to change Androgel--> Tcream. Wonder what my dose will be if I have to change again, to Depo-T 200mg/mL. I do not think my balls are producing any T. I am using now Novarel HCG 250IU/eod, probably does not make a sense to push it and say doubling the HCG dose, just to double check my balls??
    Your DHT will continue to go down as you keep up with preg cream, and even more so when you switch over to shots.

    Is chrysin in your cream? Dump it, your SHBG low no reason to lower it. I already dumped part of my prostate supplements, they lower my SHBG, after next test I may dump the remaining pills. I think I sort of like my current SHBG level. Funny with SHBG testing. When tested individually it is =24, when it is part of (Free Bioavailable and Total T) it is =20, rather large difference.
    Ferritin is a marker for iron. You like alot of people probably avoid iron like the plague, hence the lower range. Find a good chelated mineral supp and try throwing in low dose iron for a bit and see ferritin go up to normal.

    Lp(A) can be lowered with green leafy vegetable intake and B vitamin supplementation. I keep on you jansZ about eating your veggies you must listen. If I can't get you to cook you should try my latest venture Im on and start juicing - Official Site : Jack LaLanne's Power Juicer As Seen On TV - The Official Power Juicer Site for Fast Healthy Fresh Fruit Juice and Vegetable Juice in Seconds. Post list od stuff that you will be throwing in the juicer, amounts on daily basis. I need to lower my glucose when it should be easy to do, now=105. Just do not have a good idea of what to do. Possibly I eat too much fruits. They are mostly apples, oranges and grapefruit, lots of sugar. When I do not go anywhere I eat onions, another sugar. Need good instructions on glucode control.
    In reference to Hemoglobin and Glucose check out the links I left for you. If you mistyped and you are only 5'9 at 160 Im assuming you might be carrying around a little extra weight. My coach would like me to add more weight. But he also want me to lift heavier weights. All this is getting back to energy level. How to increase energy level. I was surprised when working on Armour I was adding 10 mg of Cortef. With or without Cortef I seen no difference.
    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed

    Entrez PubMed
    bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I am 67yo, 6'9", 160#
    Other than my aching back I feel ok, but could use more energy.
    Almost every other day I need to take afternoon nap, this is new for me.
    I do one hour per week gym under supervision. Generally to improve my overall strength and core muscles. I wish I had enough energy for another gym day.
    I do dancing (aerobics) about 4 hours /week and attend dancing classes 6hrs/week, not sure how to count that it is much less energetic.
    My diet is not really organized but probably not really bad.
    I eat lots of nuts and fruits, should eat more vegetables.

    I used to use 10grams of Androgel and had TT=932ng/dL(241-827)
    I switched to equal amount by Test content, Tcream 1gram/day, 100mg/1gram, and my TT falled to 456, most likely part of the reason for lower energy.
    I have increased Tcream dose to 2gram/day, if that is not enough I will probably try shots. I have grandson running around and can use only my calves to put Tcream on.

    Current test shows too much copper, I stopped my LEF multivitamins with extra niacin and ordered same minus copper.

    My current test shows DHEAs 3x over limit I attribute that to my using pregnenolone prescription cream 100mg/1gram, 1gram/day.
    I stopped DHEA supplementation.

    My current test shows decent cholesterol, possibly too low. This is first in very long time. I attribute that to red yeast rice that I started few months back. It is supported by CoQ10 and Super Omega-3 EPA/DHA with Sesame Lignans & Olive Fruit Extract from LEF.
    I take a tons of supplements from LEF. I stopped their recommended Sytrinol as it did not do its job.

    My current test shows Total estrogen and Estrone within range, they were way over range before (and I was told here that nothing can be done about it, and better to not test it). Also my Estradiol stays put at 27. I attribute it to six pills of DualAcrion and 2 pills of TMG both from LEF. DualAction is their version of DIM, heavily supported with I3C, cruciferous extracts, resveratol and others.
    I changed to 4 pills of DualAction.

    I started 0.25cc/day of LiquiDex, equal to 1/4 pill of Arimidex. After about a week I had to stop that, my nightly wood told me to do that. I guess I am good at E2=27. Scratching my head, I would like to prop my # of ejaculations/week and do not know how.

    My Prolactin went slightly up and last test show it at =5.9, since Dr Shippen likes it at 3 I started Vitex 2 pills daily, after about week and half I see no difference.

    My previous test show FreeT3=2.9 (2.3-4.2) so I (slowly) added 4 grains Armour Thyroid (and 10mg Cortef), latter stopped Cortef. Last test show FreeT3=486(230-420), over the range, I now take 3grains. Must say that other than little higher body temperature I do not see any difference. I was actually expecting to achieve huge difference in energy levels. Nothing, but my body temp is at desired 36.5C=97.7F slightly less than 36.6C=97.9F I had at my youth.

    My SHBG=20 is not that bad, but is slightly below normal range. I have reduce number prostate pills that I take and Super MiraForte, a Chrysin and Nettle product.

    My DHT was 226 now 143 (25-75), it is to high, not sure if I should take Avodart. Lower values now are probably due to lower cream application area and lower TotalT.

    I have some tests that are (somewhat) over the range it is either Quest or LEF range, ferritin, sodium, Fibrinogen, Hemoglobin A1C, Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A), Glucose. Could use some guidance.

    Please look over my test and try to divine some advice.

    Mostly how to make me go to gym second day within a week and how to stop afternoon naps.
    -----------------------
    Edited, my height is 5'9"
    I just started taking vitex also. It says it can take up to a month to start taking effect. Your procaltin is already low compared to mine so you may not notice a difference for a while. Mine is 15 so I may notice it a little quicker. I'll let you know.
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    My fasting glucose is either 98 or 105mg/dL, LEF likes it at (70-85)
    Actually I have a old meter I used to use for my late diabetic dog. Will double check tommorow morning.
    Reading thru LEF articles I found supplements that they recomend:

    Chromium Polynicotinate
    200 mcg , 365 capsules
    Item Catalog Number: 169
    Chromium Polynicotinate, 200 Mcg 365 Capsules
    --------------------
    February 28, 2006
    Life Extension Newsletter - February 28, 2006


    Super Carnosine, 500 Mg 90 Capsules
    Super Carnosine 500 mg, 90 capsules Item Catalog Number: 787
    and
    Acetyl-L-Carnitine, 500 Mg 100 Capsules
    Acetyl-L-Carnitine 500 mg, 100 capsules Item Catalog Number: 449

    ---------------------------
    October 31, 2006
    Life Extension Newsletter - October 31, 2006

    Mega Silymarin With Isosilybin B, 100 Capsules
    Mega Silymarin with Isosilybin B 100 capsules Item Catalog Number: 702
    and
    Enhanced Cinnulin Pf® With Glucose Management Proprietary Blend, 90 Vegetarian Capsules
    Enhanced Cinnulin PF® with Glucose Management Proprietary Blend 90 vegetarian capsules Item Catalog Number: 967

    I sort of like description of the last one.
    There is a description of tonns of ingredients under a link provided.
    Looking for opinions.
    ============================== ============================== ===========================
    added August 19/2007
    ============================== ============================== ===========================
    Control your blood sugar with cinnamon's new diabetes-fighting sidekick

    The Misunderstood Mineral Part 1

    ---------------
    Quote from article by Jonathan V. Wright, M.D.
    I've talked to a few people with type 2 diabetes who have tried Glucotrim, and they say it has helped lower their blood sugars by the same 20-30 percent found by the researchers. A few of them also mentioned a small weight loss, too. Several who've used both the MHCP-containing supplement Insulife along with Glucotrim have found even greater blood sugar improvement.
    ---------------

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    Welcome to Dr. Wright's Tahoma Clinic -

    GlucoFit (formerly Glucotrim) ARG $17.98 60 softgels


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    take 1 softgel 2 times daily with meals.

    Your Order Code is 8AAF899E11190807.
    Following items were purchased
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    ------------------------
    Bitter Melon by Nature"s Herbs



    -----------------------------------------------------------------
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    BITTER MELON contains two alkaloids, one being momordicine, as well as a glucoside (a saponin-like substance) that have demonstrated glucose-lowering effects.
    FENUGREEK is another plant with glucose-lowering properties. A specific type of fenugreek, fenugreek galactomannan, is a type of soluble fiber that swells up in the stomach, slows gastric emptying, and allows blood sugar to be used us at a slower pace. This delaying of glucose use also decreases isoleucine, an amino acid shown to stimulate glucose-induced insulin secretion.
    GYMNEMA SYLVESTRE, also known as gurmar, is an ancient Ayurvedic herb used as a glucose-lowering agent.
    BANABA has been tested extensively in Japan as well as India. Banaba’s active ingredients include corosloic and maslinic acid which elicit an insulin-like effect on the body.
    CHROMIUM PICOLINATE is an essential nutrient and cofactor of insulin. A recent study demonstrated chromium picolinate’s effectiveness in 43 Type 2 diabetes on 400 micrograms of Chromium Picolinate per day (2).
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    250IU HCG EOD retains baseline funtioning. Do not raise, as it will desensitize testes and possible E2 increase. Stick with that.

    Your trying more cream? I would look to using a combo preg cream + Injects. No more rubbing insane amounts of cream into calves. Will cut down on that.

    Best thing to do to get glucose under control is to follow a natural diet. Lots of lean meats, nutts, seads, fatty fish, eggs, veggies and fruit. Take in lots of olive and coconut oil and walnutts as well.

    I haven't figured out how Im going to do the juice thing yet, but again I will be using the same frozen fruits veggies that i use. I tend to stick with broccoli, spinich, blueberries, blackberries and strawberries. I will buy carrots, apples, and cucumbers fresh.

    I was thinking 1 apple, 1/4 cup of frozen veggie and 1/4 cup frozen fruit as blend, with olive and coconut oil dumped in. I'll let ya know.

    Im not an advocate of lifting super heavy weights. I feel stiff and sluggish when I do so. I like staying lean and limber. I do alot of high intensity movements like sprinting and plyo's, these cut my legs up better than squats and don't leave me dragging for three days the way heavy squats do. Plus, given my profession Im on my feet alot I need to be quick. I love doing Bikram yoga. I also dig this DVD - Testosterone Nation - MAGNIFICENT MOBILITY DVD

    Given your age High intensity stuff like plyos is out, however good ol fashion walking is great. Resristance training is good, stick with moderate reps and weights. And don't be afraid to skimp a little on calories, cut down on meal sizes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    250IU HCG EOD retains baseline funtioning. Do not raise, as it will desensitize testes and possible E2 increase. Stick with that.

    Your trying more cream? I would look to using a combo preg cream + Injects. No more rubbing insane amounts of cream into calves. Will cut down on that.

    Best thing to do to get glucose under control is to follow a natural diet. Lots of lean meats, nutts, seads, fatty fish, eggs, veggies and fruit. Take in lots of olive and coconut oil and walnutts as well.

    I haven't figured out how Im going to do the juice thing yet, but again I will be using the same frozen fruits veggies that i use. I tend to stick with broccoli, spinich, blueberries, blackberries and strawberries. I will buy carrots, apples, and cucumbers fresh.

    I was thinking 1 apple, 1/4 cup of frozen veggie and 1/4 cup frozen fruit as blend, with olive and coconut oil dumped in. I'll let ya know.

    Im not an advocate of lifting super heavy weights. I feel stiff and sluggish when I do so. I like staying lean and limber. I do alot of high intensity movements like sprinting and plyo's, these cut my legs up better than squats and don't leave me dragging for three days the way heavy squats do. Plus, given my profession Im on my feet alot I need to be quick. I love doing Bikram yoga. I also dig this DVD - Testosterone Nation - MAGNIFICENT MOBILITY DVD

    Given your age High intensity stuff like plyos is out, however good ol fashion walking is great. Resristance training is good, stick with moderate reps and weights. And don't be afraid to skimp a little on calories, cut down on meal sizes.
    Other than Grunts excercise on a ball, lunges are also adjusting my (formerly) aching back.

    I found this site with some pictures.
    fitness exercise descriptions
    I will have to start doing it with arabesque, nice to keep balance (in old age).
    http://www.pmts.org/graphics/exercise/fwdarab.gif
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Other than Grunts excercise on a ball, lunges are also adjusting my (formerly) aching back.

    I found this site with some pictures.
    fitness exercise descriptions
    I will have to start doing it with arabesque, nice to keep balance (in old age).
    http://www.pmts.org/graphics/exercise/fwdarab.gif
    Oh man, let me tell you, the foam ball exercises are keeping me going, working out all the kinks, its like having your very own ART session.

    I love getting ART, can't speak highly enough about it, I try and go once every couple months, in between foam roller/ball exercises help. I love that DVD I posted above, GET IT! :bb2:
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Oh man, let me tell you, the foam ball exercises are keeping me going, working out all the kinks, its like having your very own ART session.

    I love getting ART, can't speak highly enough about it, I try and go once every couple months, in between foam roller/ball exercises help. I love that DVD I posted above, GET IT! :bb2:
    I suspect you may like to take a closer look at a Salsa.
    I can do only very basic, popular steps.
    It can get quite energetic when you get into proper group of people.
    Plus it newer hurts being in close proximity to energetic hot girls.
    If you cannot get salsa, Lindy is not bad either.
    You will do most everything I see on your tape, except faster and often backward.
    I only want what is best for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    I suspect you may like to take a closer look at a Salsa.
    I can do only very basic, popular steps.
    It can get quite energetic when you get into proper group of people.
    Plus it newer hurts being in close proximity to energetic hot girls.
    If you cannot get salsa, Lindy is not bad either.
    You will do most everything I see on your tape, except faster and often backward.
    I only want what is best for you.
    Dance lessons are definitely on my to do list of 2007.
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    When I switched from 10gram Androgel to 100mg/1gram Tcream, I used 1gram/day of that cream.
    Blood test got me low TT so I am doing 2gram/day of that Tcream.
    I was planning to test and see my new levels but lost patience.
    Called doctors office, most likely by middle of next week I will have vial of Depo-Testosterone.
    I will try Wallgreens and Wallmart for good price.
    Before calling doc's office, I called my compounding pharmacy.
    They do not sell original Depo-Testosterone
    They compound it in sezame oil, 10ml vial 200mg/mL, $40
    They could compound in cotton seed oil, $109
    Cotton seed oil is used in Depo-T the original manufactured by Pfizer
    http://www.pfizer.com/pfizer/downloa...stosterone.pdf

    Question #1
    I am sure either of the three would work, but my concern is about which one would flow easier thru 28 or 29ga needle that I plan on using.

    Question #2
    I use HCG, I do not think my testis are producing T
    What would be the good weekly dose, I am aiming at the top of the ranges, 5-10% above it would probably be also ok.
    I am going to inject (T+HCG) SubQ at the same time, two syringes.
    E3D or E2D

    If E2D T+250IU
    If E3D T+500IU
    -----------------------------------------------
    I am planning on 100-120mg/week
    but I think I have seen 150
    200 is too much.

    Comments, information ..
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    phatkid77 log
    Quote Originally Posted by phatkid77 View Post
    hhaaahaha, yeah sorry... 1/2ml....

    eventually i will go 1/4ml 2x week... im just wondering if i should do 200mg every 2 weeks as prescribed, and when i get blood work see what my T is at..if still lowish, maybe go up to say 125mg/wk (250/14days)... but if i do MY OWN thing at 1/2ml week....will my test levels be increased??? kinda confusing, but not really...lol

    as stated, i know more frequent is good for Estrogen, but will my test levels be higher on 1 week vs every 2weeks?

    incidently, i read here i think someone shown a graph of blood concentrations of doing every 2 weeks VS every3day i think...at end of say day 70... there was 400mg of test in the blood vs every 2 week shot was like 40mg?? ill have to look again..

    phats

    anyone make this work?
    The Roid Calculator
    Top of page contains (default values) half lives.
    Tcypionate-6days
    Tentanate-5days

    Reminder, Tcypionate=DepoTest
    Input # of mg on days you plan on getting the shots.

    Click calculate
    Click view diagram
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Below is a study done using Roid Calculator
    The attached picture assumes average 100mg/week of Tcypionate,
    From left to right:

    once every two weeks
    1/week
    E3d
    E2D

    The table shows blood levels starting from day 1 to day 56, 8 weeks.
    One should probably pay attention to levels starting at week 4 until week 8.
    -----------------------------
    200mg
    100mg
    100/7*3=48.8mg
    100/7*2=28.5mg

    Enjoy.
    ============================== ============================== ==
    PREGNYL®
    Arimidex (Anastrozole) clinical pharmacology - prescription drugs and medications at RxList



    Figure 1. Steady-state mean serum levels of testosterone, bioavailable testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and
    estradiol in thirty-three hypogonadal 22- to 65-year-old men given 200 mg of intramuscular testosterone enanthate
    every 2 weeks.


    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/attac...3&d=1139879356

    ============================== ============================== ===
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    Now that is a cool graph, thanks for posting that. Its confirming what alot have already speculated and posted about their own HRT therapy, that more frequent injects are better./


    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    phatkid77 log


    Top of page contains (default values) half lives.
    Tcypionate-6days
    Tentanate-5days

    Reminder, Tcypionate=DepoTest
    Input # of mg on days you plan on getting the shots.

    Click calculate
    Click view diagram
    --------------------------------------------------------
    Below is a study done using Roid Calculator
    The attached picture assumes average 100mg/week of Tcypionate,
    From left to right:

    once every two weeks
    1/week
    E3d
    E2D

    The table shows blood levels starting from day 1 to day 56, 8 weeks.
    One should probably pay attention to levels starting at week 4 until week 8.
    -----------------------------
    200mg
    100mg
    100/7*3=48.8mg
    100/7*2=28.5mg

    Enjoy.
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    cool indeed...your welcome for the link... i just couldnt figure the damn thing out....

    to me... doesnt look like its all that benefitial E3d over E2d..

    i was planning on going every mon and frid..

    phats
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    Quote Originally Posted by phatkid77 View Post
    cool indeed...your welcome for the link... i just couldnt figure the damn thing out....

    to me... doesnt look like its all that benefitial E3d over E2d..

    i was planning on going every mon and frid..

    phats
    E2D over E3D probably not.
    But just look at once a week graph and think of the stress body have to go thru to live with these waves.
    Just hire a 30' fishing boat off Belmar NJ, once on a calm day and then when you have still no newer mind 4 footers.
    And then if you lucky get into 8-10 footers.

    I have made another presentation of same problem.
    These are just numbers, do not jump.
    I assumed 1000mg average weekly dose.
    I also calculated for daily injections.
    On my monitor I do no even have to open the chart, I can see the action on the icon representing the chart.
    Chart below.
    Enjoy;
    normal schedule, note time in days to stabilize
    levels on 1/2weeks, 1/week, E3D, E2D & ED injections


    rampup schedule
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    Ok, when we start new dose we would like to get to a steady state as fast as possible. Well RoidCalculator would have to be used to input last week or so of old schedule and then the new schedule.
    Easier case, for someone who just starts clean.
    The attached chart includes 1/week, E3D, E2D, every day easy rampup ideas.
    -----------------------------
    Now, if only Dr John would buy this work, someone doing daily injections would not have to wait 4-6 weeks to stabilize and be able to do blood test, he could do testing (theoretically) on the day 5 or 6, playing safe on end of second week.

    Also someone on E3D would be good to go on day 4



    rampup schedule
    Attached Files Attached Files
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    So my glucose is little high, 98 or 105.
    Better indicator of Average Blood Sugar is Hemoglobin A1c
    I have 5.4%
    On this web site
    Health Library Provided by Private MD - Confidential Online Lab Testing Services
    I found relationship between the two.
    If one beliewes numbers the relationship is linear.
    A1c is better indicator than one time glucose check.
    I have made a little table that will help figuring out the two for numbers that are not specifically posted.

    y-glucose
    x-A1c
    y=3500*x-75
    4.00% 65
    4.50% 82.5
    5.00% 100
    5.25% 108.75
    5.40% 114
    5.50% 117.5
    5.60% 121
    5.75% 126.25
    6.00% 135
    6.25% 143.75
    6.50% 152.5
    6.75% 161.25
    7.00% 170
    7.25% 178.75
    7.50% 187.5
    7.75% 196.25
    8.00% 205


    This sucks, my glucose is actually worst than I thught.
    What to do.
    So far I was able to get from LEF

    MEGA SILYMARIN 900 MG 100 CAPS Item#00702
    ENHANCED CINNULIN PF W/GLUCOSE90 CAPS Item# 00967

    Will check in a month or so how/if it works.

    Chart attached.
    =========================
    Health Library Provided by Private MD - Confidential Online Lab Testing Services
    What does the test result mean?
    The hemoglobin A1c percentage rises as your average blood sugar level rises.

    The normal range for a person without diabetes is 4 to 6%.
    The goal for most adults with diabetes is an A1c below 7%. For some people the goal should be 6% or less. For others, the A1C goal may need to be slightly higher than 7% (for example, the very elderly).
    The following chart shows examples of how the hemoglobin A1c is related to your average blood sugar level:


    Hemoglobin A1c Average Blood Sugar
    -----------------------------------------
    6% 135 mg/dL
    7% 170 mg/dL
    8% 205 mg/dL
    9% 240 mg/dL
    10% 275 mg/dL
    ------------------------------------------
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KSman View Post
    10ml 200mg/ml test cyp Watsons generic
    -Walgreens $100
    -Sam's Club with a Business Membership $42

    Syringes 3ml #22 1.5" rom Walgreens, individual, not in a box $1.00 each. Box of 100, #23, 3ml, 1.5" at Sam's Club with a business membership $18.

    Insulin syringes, Rely-on, at Sam's or Walmart, $12.60 per 100. No script required in many states.
    Just came back from Walgreens
    They had generic for $100+-, I requested brand name
    Depo-Testorene-- $149.99
    got screwed in a way
    Wallgrens is 7 miles away, when I called them I thought the $100 was for brand name.
    I could have got the thing in my local pharmacy, 2 miles way.
    Important note, have to buy all my refills within 6 months.
    Either that or bug doc for new script, will see.

    Got 29 & 28Ga 1/2cc needles
    actually I also ordered 29ga 3/10cc needles
    will see how they will work.
    Per one of your previous statements, the 1/2cc is required because it have a smaller piston so I am assuming the 3/10cc should be even smaller, easier to handle suction and then injection. Will see.

    I will do E3D SubQ injections, each shot 28units on syringe
    0.28*7/3*200=130.7mg/week

    I may change to E2D SubQ injections, each shot 19units on syringe
    0.19*7/2*200=133.0mg/week

    With E3D injections I will do at the same time 500iu HCG
    if E2D injections I will do at the same time 250iu HCG
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Using new found knowledge from Roid Calculator
    I am assuming that current 2grams of Tcream gives me TT~750
    The switch to 130mg/week Of Depo-T should put me at around TT~1100
    Eyballing the Roid Calculator chart,
    Today--I had Tcream
    Tomorow Day1-0.28cc +250iu HCG
    Day2-
    Day3-0.28cc +500iu HCG
    Day4-
    Day5-
    Day6-0.28cc +500iu HCG
    normal schedule E3D
    ----------------------------
    When I was on 10grams of Androgel I had TT=932, felt better then now, but high DHT.
    Hopefully injections will make me feel better and will not screw DHT, will see its effect on E2.
    -----------
    Will have to start putting together (short) list for my next blood test 1-2 months away.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Just came back from Walgreens
    They had generic for $100+-, I requested brand name
    Depo-Testorene-- $149.99
    got screwed in a way
    Wallgrens is 7 miles away, when I called them I thought the $100 was for brand name.
    I could have got the thing in my local pharmacy, 2 miles way.
    Important note, have to buy all my refills within 6 months.
    Either that or bug doc for new script, will see.

    Got 29 & 28Ga 1/2cc needles
    actually I also ordered 29ga 3/10cc needles
    will see how they will work.
    Per one of your previous statements, the 1/2cc is required because it have a smaller piston so I am assuming the 3/10cc should be even smaller, easier to handle suction and then injection. Will see.

    I will do E3D SubQ injections, each shot 28units on syringe
    0.28*7/3*200=130.7mg/week

    I may change to E2D SubQ injections, each shot 19units on syringe
    0.19*7/2*200=133.0mg/week

    With E3D injections I will do at the same time 500iu HCG
    if E2D injections I will do at the same time 250iu HCG
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Using new found knowledge from Roid Calculator
    I am assuming that current 2grams of Tcream gives me TT~750
    The switch to 130mg/week Of Depo-T should put me at around TT~1100
    Eyballing the Roid Calculator chart,
    Today--I had Tcream
    Tomorow Day1-0.28cc +250iu HCG
    Day2-
    Day3-0.28cc +500iu HCG
    Day4-
    Day5-
    Day6-0.28cc +500iu HCG
    normal schedule E3D
    ----------------------------
    When I was on 10grams of Androgel I had TT=932, felt better then now, but high DHT.
    Hopefully injections will make me feel better and will not screw DHT, will see its effect on E2.
    -----------
    Will have to start putting together (short) list for my next blood test 1-2 months away.
    JANSZ THAT IS WAY TOO FRICKEN HIGH !! YOU ARE GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH ESTROGEN AND TESTOSTERONE RECEPTORS and DOWN REGULATION IN THE BRAIN YOU ARE ALSO GOING TO STRESS OTHER SYSTEMS SUCH AS THYROID AND ADRENALS !! LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES !! You will feel good for 2-4 weeks then all of sudden you will crash big time..Plus after 800-900 you cross over the benefit/risk ratio and dht/ estrogen is going go up the roof TRUST ME SHIPPEN LAID IT INTO ME TODAY. I TOLD HIM WHAT I WAS DOING AND HE TOLD ME MY DR DID NOT KNOW WTF HE WAS DOING !! MORE IS NOT BETTER !!

    STICK TO 42.5 mgs of test every 3 days with 250 ius hcg and then you can increase it, but Shippen told me average male makes 50-70 mgs of testosterone a week !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    JANSZ THAT IS WAY TOO FRICKEN HIGH !! YOU ARE GOING TO CAUSE PROBLEMS WITH ESTROGEN AND TESTOSTERONE RECEPTORS and DOWN REGULATION IN THE BRAIN YOU ARE ALSO GOING TO STRESS OTHER SYSTEMS SUCH AS THYROID AND ADRENALS !! LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES !! You will feel good for 2-4 weeks then all of sudden you will crash big time..Plus after 800-900 you cross over the benefit/risk ratio and dht/ estrogen is going go up the roof TRUST ME SHIPPEN LAID IT INTO ME TODAY. I TOLD HIM WHAT I WAS DOING AND HE TOLD ME MY DR DID NOT KNOW WTF HE WAS DOING !! MORE IS NOT BETTER !!

    STICK TO 42.5 mgs of test every 3 days with 250 ius hcg and then you can increase it, but Shippen told me average male makes 50-70 mgs of testosterone a week !!
    42.5*7/3=99.2mg/week

    This is 1-2 months plan, then I am going to check
    Estradiol, Bioavailable
    Estradiol, Free
    Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive
    Estrogens, Total, Serum
    Estrone,serum

    Testosterone Free
    Testosterone Bioavailable

    and adjust dose

    using T creme I ended with low TT=400's on 1 gram, I had to increase to 2grams
    I do not want to do blood test now to see where I am at
    I will test within 2 months.

    Before Tcream I was on 10grams of Androgel, TT=932, felt better.
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    Ok, got my first T shot.
    28 units on insuline syringe.
    Used 29ga 1/2cc, it flows in real easy from the vial and then shot,
    wonder if I should try 30Ga, specially if it was 3/10cc (hopefully even smaller piston)??
    Then on the other side of my navel 250iu HCG
    Tomorrow shots free day.
    D2-T+250iu HCG
    D3
    D4
    D5-T+500iu HCG
    start of normal E3D schedule

    Shots were done hour ago, still waiting for any pain, so far nothing at all.

    I used container from old medicine to store Depo-T vial.
    I put the little cap on top of vial and then closed the whole thing, fits snug.
    Look at the picture
    Depo-T vial
    29ga 1/2cc
    30ga 1cc
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    Jansz your going taking 3 steps backwards and one forward.
    what is dosage of testosterone you are taking every 3 days?
    The dosages you are doing are crossing the benefit/risk ratio of TRT and are headed into steroid usage which will only put stress on entire endocrine system and will feel good for 2-3 weeks untill your testosterone and estrogen receptors are over loaded and then you will crash. Been there did that done that. Your adrenals are already stress and adjusting your testosterone dosge to 800-900 on blood test on second day after the injection will give you a good average. Your e2 and DHT are going to go out the roof and like Dr Shippen told me using another drug inorder to offset side effects to push above the numbers all the way to high end is fuked up.

    Think of it this way
    bypossible swtiching over to hcg +injections and keeping them in upper 25% of the range you will lower dht and e2 which will reduce the need for finisterde and armidex. More is not better Bro and personally you are going to end up causing major cardiovascaular problems in the future tinkering around with those dosages. Go 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius retest in 4 weeks then increase if not into target range
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    Jansz your going taking 3 steps backwards and one forward.
    what is dosage of testosterone you are taking every 3 days?
    The dosages you are doing are crossing the benefit/risk ratio of TRT and are headed into steroid usage which will only put stress on entire endocrine system and will feel good for 2-3 weeks untill your testosterone and estrogen receptors are over loaded and then you will crash. Been there did that done that. Your adrenals are already stress and adjusting your testosterone dosge to 800-900 on blood test on second day after the injection will give you a good average. Your e2 and DHT are going to go out the roof and like Dr Shippen told me using another drug inorder to offset side effects to push above the numbers all the way to high end is fuked up.

    Think of it this way
    bypossible swtiching over to hcg +injections and keeping them in upper 25% of the range you will lower dht and e2 which will reduce the need for finisterde and armidex. More is not better Bro and personally you are going to end up causing major cardiovascaular problems in the future tinkering around with those dosages. Go 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius retest in 4 weeks then increase if not into target range
    My intent is to stay within upper values of ranges specified by Quest for
    Free T, FreeE
    BioT, BioE

    Within last week Phil posted his dose IIRC about 150, he eats the T like nobody else.
    There was another bro, he went down from 200 to 140/week on doctors advice.
    My dose is designed to be 130/week on average.
    I will do blood test within 2 months or sooner if I feel need for it, I will do adjustments at that time.
    I do not use Arimidex, hopefully will stay that way.
    I do 6 pills of DualAction and 2 pills of TMG, so far that was working good for me.
    Recently I added 3 pills of Resveratrol (300mg/day), this is on top of what Resveratrol is in DualAction.
    I am not really clear how Resveratol influences Estrogens, but supposedly it is good to take so I do.

    DHT, I am hoping/expecting to end up with lower values than when on cream or gel. Supposedly it is largely a function of skin area, time will tell. I am out of Avodart (and Proscar) for long time, minimizing medicines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    My intent is to stay within upper values of ranges specified by Quest for
    Free T, FreeE
    BioT, BioE

    Within last week Phil posted his dose IIRC about 150, he eats the T like nobody else.
    There was another bro, he went down from 200 to 140/week on doctors advice.
    My dose is designed to be 130/week on average.
    I will do blood test within 2 months or sooner if I feel need for it, I will do adjustments at that time.
    I do not use Arimidex, hopefully will stay that way.
    I do 6 pills of DualAction and 2 pills of TMG, so far that was working good for me.
    Recently I added 3 pills of Resveratrol (300mg/day), this is on top of what Resveratrol is in DualAction.
    I am not really clear how Resveratol influences Estrogens, but supposedly it is good to take so I do.

    DHT, I am hoping/expecting to end up with lower values than when on cream or gel. Supposedly it is largely a function of skin area, time will tell. I am out of Avodart (and Proscar) for long time, minimizing medicines.
    phil also has hypopititaury that is also being finally treated properly with all hormones inclusing aldosterone which does effect estrogen metabolism in some way but have not found out how but it really will tank ones e2

    120 mgs a week put me at trough at 1111 TT but bio T was only mid way ? and that was on a 2 week split m,th 60 mgs with 250 ius hcg day before the shot. Blood was drwn on monday morning before shot and i was on .5 mgs armidex on day of shot but quest did the wrong test for e2 and royally set me back almost 2 months because of it..Now on stable test E at 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius of hcg with .5 mgs armidex on day of the shot to help bring down the e2 levels of 73 will retest in 4 weeks
    e2, dht, biotest, TT, homocysteine, Lp(a), ft4, ft3, copper, ferritin, CBC, CMP
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    phil also has hypopititaury that is also being finally treated properly with all hormones inclusing aldosterone which does effect estrogen metabolism in some way but have not found out how but it really will tank ones e2

    120 mgs a week put me at trough at 1111 TT but bio T was only mid way ? and that was on a 2 week split m,th 60 mgs with 250 ius hcg day before the shot. Blood was drwn on monday morning before shot and i was on .5 mgs armidex on day of shot but quest did the wrong test for e2 and royally set me back almost 2 months because of it..Now on stable test E at 42.5 mgs every 3 days with 250 ius of hcg with .5 mgs armidex on day of the shot to help bring down the e2 levels of 73 will retest in 4 weeks
    e2, dht, biotest, TT, homocysteine, Lp(a), ft4, ft3, copper, ferritin, CBC, CMP
    It is complex proposition, but if TT=1111 have given you BioT only in the middle range I would probably stay at that T level and try to straighten up my act in other areas.

    It is very important to have steady routine and not to get screwed by laboratory.
    For my next test I will go to Quest lab, script in hand and have them prepare paperwork first.
    I did that first time and they let me check the tests that they were going to do.
    I still missed pregnenolone and double Testosterone, but that was realy my fault, one can say.
    Unfortunately with large tests there is big chance for screw-ups.
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    Nails,
    You are 25 to 30 something with testicals that still produce T. JansZ is older with testicals that probably produce nothing.

    It is very very likely he will need more T than you to end up in upper range.

    hCG in people with responding testes, healthy young leydig cells will crank up T 200 points(Like in you)

    JansZ testicals are probably permanently shutdown, leydig cells in testes will become basically 'dead" from having years of no response/use, desensitized. hCG still benefit though because balls will swell up, prevent scrotum from tightening up, for looks as well.

    I have read stuff that hCG will boost mood, blood flow of genital area even if testicals do not work anymore.

    There is new cutting edge work now that has shown hCG is a very very potent fat burner and metabolism booster. Exact sceince of such is still unknown.

    hMG is the new guy on the block. It is basically FSH(follicle stimulating hormone). It combined with hCG(basically LH) and becomes a deadly, potent one-two punch. It will be the new wave, in future everyone will inject hCG and hMG in conjunction. Some are already on bandwagon. hCG and hMG is also the newest and improved way to restard HTPA axis.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    It is complex proposition, but if TT=1111 have given you BioT only in the middle range I would probably stay at that T level and try to straighten up my act in other areas.

    It is very important to have steady routine and not to get screwed by laboratory.
    For my next test I will go to Quest lab, script in hand and have them prepare paperwork first.
    I did that first time and they let me check the tests that they were going to do.
    I still missed pregnenolone and double Testosterone, but that was realy my fault, one can say.
    Unfortunately with large tests there is big chance for screw-ups.
    ACtually by lowering the dosage T will most likely not convert to e2 as much and also give my receptors rest. If i can reduce my medicines such as armidex and increase bioavailable testosterone. i think it will be just easier to reduce the TT and the dht and e2 should come down considerable rather then throwing in more medicines to comepnsate for it..
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    Nails,
    You are 25 to 30 something with testicals that still produce T. JansZ is older with testicals that probably produce nothing.

    It is very very likely he will need more T than you to end up in upper range.

    hCG in people with responding testes, healthy young leydig cells will crank up T 200 points(Like in you)

    JansZ testicals are probably permanently shutdown, leydig cells in testes will become basically 'dead" from having years of no response/use, desensitized. hCG still benefit though because balls will swell up, prevent scrotum from tightening up, for looks as well.

    I have read stuff that hCG will boost mood, blood flow of genital area even if testicals do not work anymore.

    There is new cutting edge work now that has shown hCG is a very very potent fat burner and metabolism booster. Exact sceince of such is still unknown.

    hMG is the new guy on the block. It is basically FSH(follicle stimulating hormone). It combined with hCG(basically LH) and becomes a deadly, potent one-two punch. It will be the new wave, in future everyone will inject hCG and hMG in conjunction. Some are already on bandwagon. hCG and hMG is also the newest and improved way to restard HTPA axis.
    Research, and reports of people who used it would help.
    It would have to be from somebody who did not cared for fertility but cared primarily for health and happy love making.
    .
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz View Post
    Research, and reports of people who used it would help.
    It would have to be from somebody who did not cared for fertility but cared primarily for health and happy love making.
    .
    JansZ,

    Im on it, but remember, hMG and hCG in conjunction for HRT is probably only being used by a few hundred people at best right now, probably all within the last year. this is very very new territory
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    Quote Originally Posted by plymouth city View Post
    JansZ,

    Im on it, but remember, hMG and hCG in conjunction for HRT is probably only being used by a few hundred people at best right now, probably all within the last year. this is very very new territory
    Well, thanks for being open about.
    But now few questions.

    Have you been on HCG alone for enough time to be able feel difference if any when you added HMG?

    What is that difference?

    What brand of HMG that you are using, dose, frequency

    There is HCG, HMG and FSH, have you considered using all three?

    How much it cost?

    Where to buy to get good price?

    I can get script if I really am convinced of the benefits, so do not hold back.

    Why are you using HMG, are you trying to get her pregnant or for personal fulfilment?
    --------------------------------------------------------

    Wish you luck
    --------------------------------------------------------
    http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/536457-post31.html

    In this post, on the bottom, there is a link to a table that shows different brands of
    FSH
    HCG
    HMG
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    What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US?
    Question:
    What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US? I have heard of quite a few different injectible drugs you can use (i.e., Pergonal, HMG, Humegon, etc) and want to know if there is a drug that is cheaper than the others and also is it effective?


    Answer:
    - FSH/LH drugs (HMG): Repronex is cheapest in most places, Humegon next, then Pergonal is much more costly. They are all basically the same. FSH: Only Fertinex to choose from. RhFSH: Follistim is cheaper than Gonal-F in most places. Repronex or Humegon are probably the cheapest injectible meds you can get ahold of right now. - And repronex works, trust me. That's what I'm using. Now if we can just get those darn sperm to swim in the right direction...




    Gonal -F® 75 IU
    (Serono Europe Pack) $48.50

    Gonal -F® 900 IU PEN
    (Serono Europe Pack) $580.00

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 300 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $172.50

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 600 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $345.00

    Repronex®(Menopur®) 75 IU
    (Ferring Europe Pack) $34.00

    HMG (Generic Repronex®) 75 IU
    (Generic Europe Pack) $12.75


    Fostimon® (Gen. Bravelle®) 75 IU
    (IBSA Europe Pack) $28.00

    HCG (Pregnyl®) 10,000 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $25.00


    Lupron® - 14 day, 2.8 ml
    (Abbott Europe Pack) $170.00

    Synarel® Spray (0.2 mg/0.5ml)
    (Pharmacia Europe Pack) $190.00

    Antagon®(Orgalutran®) .25 mg/.5 ml
    (Organon Europe Pack) $57.00

    Cetrotide® 0.25 mg
    (Serono Europe Pack) $60.00

    Ovidrel® (Ovitrelle®) (250 mcg)
    (Serono Europe Pack) $58.00

    Clomid® 50 mg (each)
    (Aventis Europe Pack) $1.50
    ============================== ============================== ===============


    Bravelle™ 75 International Units Vial
    Cetrotide® .25mg prefilled syringe
    Cetrotide® 3mg prefilled syringe
    Clomiphene Citrate 50mg Tabs
    Crinone Gel 8% Vaginal Applicators
    Fertile One vitamin supplement 120 Tablets
    Follistim® AQ 300 International Units, 600 International Units and 900 International Units Cartridge
    75 International Units and 150 International Units Vial
    Ganirelix (formerly Antagon) 250mcg Syringe
    Gonal - F® 450 International Units Multi Dose Vial
    Gonal - F® RFF 75 International Units Vial
    Gonal - F® RFF Pen 300, 450 and 900
    HCG 10,000 International Units Vial
    IVIG Varies
    Lupron® 2 Week Kit
    Leuprolide Acetate 2 Week Kit
    Luveris® 75 International Units Vial
    Menopur® 75 International Units Vial
    Novarel™ 10,000 International Units Vial
    Ovidrel® 250mcg Prefilled Syringe
    Progesterone in Oil 50 mg/ml Vial
    10ml Vial
    Repronex® 75 International Units Vial
  38. Registered User
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanSz
    What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US?
    Question:
    What is the cheapest injectible fertility drug you can buy in the US? I have heard of quite a few different injectible drugs you can use (i.e., Pergonal, HMG, Humegon, etc) and want to know if there is a drug that is cheaper than the others and also is it effective?


    Answer:
    - FSH/LH drugs (HMG): Repronex is cheapest in most places, Humegon next, then Pergonal is much more costly. They are all basically the same. FSH: Only Fertinex to choose from. RhFSH: Follistim is cheaper than Gonal-F in most places. Repronex or Humegon are probably the cheapest injectible meds you can get ahold of right now. - And repronex works, trust me. That's what I'm using. Now if we can just get those darn sperm to swim in the right direction...
    ============================== ============================== ==========




    Gonal -F® 75 IU
    (Serono Europe Pack) $48.50

    Gonal -F® 900 IU PEN
    (Serono Europe Pack) $580.00

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 300 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $172.50

    Follistim® (Puregon®) 600 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $345.00

    Repronex®(Menopur®) 75 IU
    (Ferring Europe Pack) $34.00

    HMG (Generic Repronex®) 75 IU
    (Generic Europe Pack) $12.75


    Fostimon® (Gen. Bravelle®) 75 IU
    (IBSA Europe Pack) $28.00

    HCG (Pregnyl®) 10,000 IU
    (Organon Europe Pack) $25.00


    Lupron® - 14 day, 2.8 ml
    (Abbott Europe Pack) $170.00

    Synarel® Spray (0.2 mg/0.5ml)
    (Pharmacia Europe Pack) $190.00

    Antagon®(Orgalutran®) .25 mg/.5 ml
    (Organon Europe Pack) $57.00

    Cetrotide® 0.25 mg
    (Serono Europe Pack) $60.00

    Ovidrel® (Ovitrelle®) (250 mcg)
    (Serono Europe Pack) $58.00

    Clomid® 50 mg (each)
    (Aventis Europe Pack) $1.50

    I tihnk you are not allowed to post that
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardasnails1973 View Post
    I tihnk you are not allowed to post that
    One need script to buy from that place.
    I posted to get ball park prices and names.
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    Using my study above using RoidCalculator, I note that on weekly injection test blood level are half on minimum of what they are at the max.
    ------
    Using this study, I know T levels at the minimum. Blood drawn on the day of weekly shot right before the shot.

    AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 Table 2

    Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

    Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men -- Bhasin et al. 281 (6): E1172 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

    ------------------------
    My analysis is shown on the attached chart, also bottom line results are below. Variation= ±75 should be added when reading the table.
    Also remember that in the study endogenous testosterone was blocked, testis were not producing T during study.

    DepoT TotalT SHBG FreeT SHBG FreeT
    25 353 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    30 381 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    35 410 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    40 438 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    45 466 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    50 494 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    55 522 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    60 551 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    65 579 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    70 607 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    75 635 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    80 663 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    85 692 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    90 720 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    95 748 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    100 776 xx5 300 14.4 250
    105 805 xx7 300 16.5 250
    110 833 xx9 300 18.6 250
    115 861 10.8 300 20.7 250
    120 889 xx13 300 xx23 250
    125 917 xx15 300 xx25 250
    130 946 16.7 300 x27.3 250
    135 974 18.7 300 x29.4 250
    140 1002 xx21 300 x31.5 250
    145 1030 22.6 300 x33.5 250
    150 1058 24.5 300 x35.6 250
    155 1087 26.4 300 xx38 250
    160 1115 28.4 300 xx40 250
    165 1143 30.4 300 x42.2 250
    170 1171 32.3 300 x44.4 250
    175 1199 34.3 300 x46.3 250
    180 1228 36.3 300 x48.5 250
    185 1256 38.2 300 x50.7 250
    190 1284 xx40 300 x52.8 250
    195 1312 xxxx 300 xx55 250
    200 1340 xx44 300 xx57 250
    205 1369 xxxx 300 x59.3 250
    210 1397 xx48 300 x61.5 250
    215 1425 xxxx 300 x63.4 250
    220 1453 51.7 300 xxxx 250
    225 1481 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    230 1510 55.6 300 xxxx 250
    235 1538 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    240 1566 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    245 1594 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    250 1622 63.5 300 xxxx 250
    255 1651 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    260 1679 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    265 1707 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    270 1735 71.0 300 xxxx 250
    275 1763 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    280 1792 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    285 1820 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    290 1848 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    295 1876 xxxx 300 xxxx 250
    300 1904 83.0 300 99.9 250
    =======================
    Free & Bioavailable Testosterone calculator
    ------------------------------
    Unit conversion
    Conventional units - SI units

    Chemistry Conversion

    Unit Prefix Conversion Calculator
    ------------------------------

    http://www.vin.com/calculators/ChemConvRules.htm

    ------------------------------
    SI Units for Clinical Data

    very big tabeConversion:

    to convert from the conventional unit to the SI unit, multiply by the conversion factor;
    to convert from the SI unit to the conventional unit, divide by the conversion factor.

    Estradiol pg/mL 3.671 pmol/L(30pg/mL * 3.671)=110.13pmol/L
    Estriol ng/mL 3.467 nmol/L
    Estrone ng/dL 37 pmoI/L
    Testosterone ng/dL 0.0347 nmol/L(700ng/dL * 0.0347)=24.9nmol/L
    DHEA ng/dL 0.0347 nmol/L
    DHEA Sulfate μg/dL 0.0271 μmol/L
    DHEAs 100 mcg/dL=100 µg/dL= 2.71µmol/L= 2.71umol/L
    DHEAs 500mcg/dL=500µg/dL=13.55µmol/L=13.55umol/L
    DHEAs 640mcg/dL=17.34µmol/L=17.34umol/L

    Pregnanediol (urine) mg/24h 3.12 µmoI/d
    Pregnanetriol (urine) mg/24 h 2.97 µmol/d
    Progesterone ng/mL 3.18 nmol/L
    1 nmol/L of Progesterone converts to 0.31 ng/mL




    http://www.vin.com/calculators/default.htm

    http://www.vin.com/calculators/ChemConvRules.htmChemConvRules<----------------big list

    http://www.questdiagnostics.com/hcp/...EndoManual.pdf
    mcg is a casual way of writing microgram. The correct symbol is µg, and there are 1000µg in 1 milligram


    ------------------------------
    Adrenal Labs - How to Interpret them ***
    Stop The Thyroid Madness :: View topic - *** Adrenal Labs - How to Interpret them ***

    Stop The Thyroid Madness » ADRENALS FAQ–the most frequently asked questions
    ------------------------------

    ============================== =============

    http://books.google.com/books?id=Ylb...page&q&f=false


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